I don't know what to name this thread

[I.O.U]

Was I right about believing? You can see how these countries around the world are behaving due to their beliefs. For me it's an undeniable fact that believing is our enemy, and catastrophe can only follow. I know you will just keep on thinking your beliefs will fix everything. But please understand it's not like I've not been there. In a odd way I consider that nature facilitates our suffering the more we want to believe.

 

[BlessedPeace]

There was another Agnostic here that posted similarly.

 

[I.O.U]

There was another Agnostic here that posted similarly.

Let me be as clear as possible. I am not singling out belief, as in just religious beliefs. I am making the claim that believing itself is our greatest of all enemies. In the general workaday world, how many human beings are suckered into doing something on the basis of believing itself? I know I've been suckered into countless decisions based on what people would have me believe. This happened 2 days ago when I bought a mobile phone purely on believing what I heard about the brand. I took no time or effort to learn and enquire about the phone, brand, model. Yes I am a sucker, still. Yes, the phone was a dud, and I had to replace it.

 

[Cassandra]

I've seen "suckers" change for the better because of belief.

I am making the claim that believing itself is our greatest of all enemies.

This claim is a belief.

 

[JohnDB]

Let me be as clear as possible. I am not singling out belief, as in just religious beliefs. I am making the claim that believing itself is our greatest of all enemies. In the general workaday world, how many human beings are suckered into doing something on the basis of believing itself? I know I've been suckered into countless decisions based on what people would have me believe. This happened 2 days ago when I bought a mobile phone purely on believing what I heard about the brand. I took no time or effort to learn and enquire about the phone, brand, model. Yes I am a sucker, still. Yes, the phone was a dud, and I had to replace it.

Believe half of what you see and none of what you hear.
Old axiom but very true.

When it comes to religion....
Do you know what you believe and most essentially WHY you believe it?
Do you completely understand the scriptures that support your doctrinal beliefs?
Are your doctrinal beliefs due to what a preacher said? Would you trust that preacher to hold your wallet for a day, a week, a year? How about eternity?

Just saying....

 

[Jericho]

Everyone believes in something. It's what that something is that matters.

 

[MA2444]

Let me be as clear as possible. I am not singling out belief, as in just religious beliefs. I am making the claim that believing itself is our greatest of all enemies. In the general workaday world, how many human beings are suckered into doing something on the basis of believing itself? I know I've been suckered into countless decisions based on what people would have me believe. This happened 2 days ago when I bought a mobile phone purely on believing what I heard about the brand. I took no time or effort to learn and enquire about the phone, brand, model. Yes I am a sucker, still. Yes, the phone was a dud, and I had to replace it.

Well you should have did your homework before plunking your money down.

It's sort of the same thing about believing in God. You nake a choice to want to beleive and then start your homework reading God's instruction book to you, and praying saying what's that mean? When you dont understand something.

It gets easier as you read it more.

 

[MA2444]

Believe half of what you see and none of what you hear.
Old axiom but very true.

Is that an old axiom already?! I remember when it was a new revelation!

 

[I.O.U]

I've seen "suckers" change for the better because of belief.


This claim is a belief.

Actually It's a grounded theory based on real evidence. I haven't found any other facts that disprove it, it's beyond just a proven concept, it explains why social discontinuity exists between people in clusters of beliefs, and much more. What I have come to know about believing itself is currently the tip of the iceberg, it requires more people to study it and improve the theory. All you have to do is ask me to provide the evidence, and I will. Although I don't think anyone has asked me of that honestly.

 

[I.O.U]

Believe half of what you see and none of what you hear.
Old axiom but very true.

When it comes to religion....
Do you know what you believe and most essentially WHY you believe it?
Do you completely understand the scriptures that support your doctrinal beliefs?
Are your doctrinal beliefs due to what a preacher said? Would you trust that preacher to hold your wallet for a day, a week, a year? How about eternity?

Just saying....

Have we proven that believing is an actual function that the human brain requires?

 

[Cassandra]

Actually It's a grounded theory based on real evidence. I haven't found any other facts that disprove it, it's beyond just a proven concept, it explains why social discontinuity exists between people in clusters of beliefs, and much more. What I have come to know about believing itself is currently the tip of the iceberg, it requires more people to study it and improve the theory. All you have to do is ask me to provide the evidence, and I will. Although I don't think anyone has asked me of that honestly.

It's still a theory.
I had a brilliant Jesuit teacher for Philosophy in college. He had asked us in class how we could prove something. At the time I was a chem major, and told him we could prove by data repeatedly showing the same thing over and over.
He then said, "If that were true, then I can live forever, because I have no data to show otherwise. " His data showed him alive every day, and none to the contrary.

 

[I.O.U]

Everyone believes in something. It's what that something is that matters.

That's true that everyone has believed one thing or another. But have you ever considered that if your belief just remains a belief then you really can't say, I know to be sure. Don't we want to be sure enough that our beliefs will not prevent us from grasping the facts when they arrive?

 

[I.O.U]

It's still a theory.
I had a brilliant Jesuit teacher for Philosophy in college. He had asked us in class how we could prove something. At the time I was a chem major, and told him we could prove by data repeatedly showing the same thing over and over.
He then said, "If that were true, then I can live forever, because I have no data to show otherwise. " His data showed him alive every day, and none to the contrary.

You have no data showing that you will die?

 

[JohnDB]

Is that an old axiom already?! I remember when it was a new revelation!

1800BC?
Or how about Solomon? He said it too.

 

[I.O.U]

Well you should have did your homework before plunking your money down.

It's sort of the same thing about believing in God. You nake a choice to want to beleive and then start your homework reading God's instruction book to you, and praying saying what's that mean? When you dont understand something.

It gets easier as you read it more.

I've read it. I still read it occasionally. It doesn't actually prove itself to be consistent with the natural order or the known universe. That's okay, it's what you'd expect from ancient times. That's okay too, because most developed tribal communities had their beliefs documented. It's not that it's unimportant, it's that we must venture into the unknown again.

 

[Jericho]

But have you ever considered that if your belief just remains a belief then you really can't say, I know to be sure. Don't we want to be sure enough that our beliefs will not prevent us from grasping the facts when they arrive?

What if the facts never arrive? Some things are unknowable. There's nothing that can be done about that. We just have to go with the best information available and be able to support our beliefs with sound reason. It's imperfect, but it's the only way we can make sense of the world. Without beliefs, we couldn't function.

 

[MA2444]

Have we proven that believing is an actual function that the human brain requires?

Do we have to prove it? Or is it self evident?

I think it's self evident. Maybe you can't write it out in a scientific equation but that dont mean it's not real.

An infant has to believe that if it cries louder that his momma will hear him and come feed him.
Children in general must believe that their Daddy will protect them. Mankind are social creatures that need each other, and must believe in each other. Even man & wife must be able to trust each other.

What kind of relationship would you have if your wife didn't care enough to act trustworthy to you? Being vague about her whereabouts and so forth? That type of behavior would create suspicion and doubt and not be good for the relationship.

So it's not that the brain requires it for certains chemical reactions and so forth, but the Psyche requires that we believe in something and someone greater than ourselves. This includes God my friend...If you've never had to cry out to God for help before, be patient, it's coming. There's no Atheists in the room when the elephant walks in! (No Atheists in foxholes).

 

[MA2444]

1800BC?
Or how about Solomon? He said it too.

Yeah but I'm only 61 lol. I think it was back when the internet was fresh and Photoshop was rampant that I figured that out. Not too long ago, maybe 30 or so years?

It was new to me!

 

[MA2444]

I've read it. I still read it occasionally. It doesn't actually prove itself to be consistent with the natural order or the known universe. That's okay, it's what you'd expect from ancient times. That's okay too, because most developed tribal communities had their beliefs documented. It's not that it's unimportant, it's that we must venture into the unknown again.

You prolly havent read it enough yet, because it does prove itself to be consistent with the natural order of the known universe. The more you read it, the clearer the world becomes. I thought it was dumb that I never read it through cover to cover before so I did that, and started over again. I can read the entire bible in one year by reading 3 chapters per day +-

It was about my 2nd or 3rd time through it that, I started seeing what it says in everyday life, everywhere. Everything that I have ever seen with my eyes agreed with what the bible says.
And more and more the scientists new discoveries are proving what the bible has been saying all along!

Soo, the deeper truths of God must be dug for and pursued. I read it every once in awhile...will not give you any more clarity or truth than not reading it. You're either serious or your not.

 

[MA2444]

That's okay, it's what you'd expect from ancient times.

For the sake of discussion, suppose there is really an Almighty God, ok?
And if He is indeed Almighty God with all power, then why would you suppose that Almighty God failed to get a decent copy of His (Bible) into your hands across the ages?

Would that be too hard for almighty God?

No. And I can tell you why. The version bible that you have in your home right now is a good enough Bible to let you search out God through it and find Him...and His Holy Spirit. At some point God decides that you are being diligent enough with reading His book, that He will reveal Himself to you through His Spirit!

The Lord's (Holy) Spirit is our helper, teacher and guide. It is a little bit spooky but it is very real. If you study His word enough, and pray enough, soon you will start being changed in your heart and will begin to be able to hear His voice speaking to you, inside of you. The still small voice of the Lord.

This is real Brother. Ask me how I know, lol! It will require you to set your intellect aside to believe in how the Lord does things or else there will be no progression in development.

Intellect is ok as far as that goes, but it's not everything!