I suspect that the "Great White Throne Judgment" as described in Revelation is only imagery rather than an event

[ewq1938]

Is a thousand years out understanding of a millennial period? When to God 1000 years is as a day and a day like unto 1000 years?

Well, I believe time passes as if it was shorter to those who are immortal so it may seem like one day to the immortal saints but the nations being ruled over will be mortal so likely they will feel like it is a thousand years.

 

[Earburner]

@St. SteVen

We're told that when we die we are judged. I believe it is immediate. Why and how would we then appear at a later judgment, aka the "Great White Throne Judgment"?

I think John was given imagery of people being judged by Christ rather than an actual event wherein ALL people who ever lived are all judged at the same time.

I think we die and that most go to Heaven and some go to Hell.

Thoughts?

You are correct in your understanding.
The religious view of "church-ianity" is entirely false.
John 3:18 speaks of the two judgments of God.
1. The judgment unto eternal death, through Adam, is condemnation.
3. The judgment unto eternal life, through Christ, is no condemnation.
Key scripture: 2 Cor. 5
[10] For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

So then, what have you done IN your body?
It's not what you would think, but rather
what have you done with Christ?
Is He within your body, your "earthen vessel" (2 Cor. 4:7), or no, He is not within your body?
Rom. 8:9.

 

[Jack]

Again we see Satan's ministers telling us that there is no everlasting fire and even Satan will be saved.

 

[St. SteVen]

Is a thousand years out understanding of a millennial period? When to God 1000 years is as a day and a day like unto 1000 years?

Time flies when you're having fun. - LOL

Or as the frog said: "Time's fun when you're havin' flies."

 

[Jack]

"I suspect that the "Great White Throne Judgment" as described in Revelation is only imagery rather than an event"

Sounds like someone who will wish it's not an actual event.

 

[JunChosen]

Did Jesus die to save us from God?

Read for yourself:

Ephesians 5:5-6....

5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

The Wrath of God is upon all man and can only be taken out upon salvation.

To God Be The Glory

 

[JunChosen]

Again we see Satan's ministers telling us that there is no everlasting fire and even Satan will be saved.

Even in the punishment of the disobedient, God's LOVE and GRACE shines through. There IS no everlasting fire!!!

The penalty is: "The wages of sin IS DEATH."

What does death mean to you???

Isn't death (cease to exist) better than eternal punishment? Revelation 20:14

To God Be The Glory

 

[Jack]

Even in the punishment of the disobedient, God's LOVE and GRACE shines through. There IS no everlasting fire!!!

You have no clue what's in the Bible!

Matthew 25:41 (NKJV)
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
Did Jesus die to save us from God?

Read for yourself:

Ephesians 5:5-6....

5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

The Wrath of God is upon all man and can only be taken out upon salvation.

To God Be The Glory

So, your answer is, "Yes, Jesus died to save us from God." ??? - LOL

 

[JunChosen]

Not sure if that is a "Yes.", or "No." answer to the question: Did Jesus die to save us from God?

As I thought and you have convinced me that you are very, very limited to understanding Scripture. Lol!

What are you trying to prove and convey with the picture in post #129?

I can put a hole right though it!!!

To God Be The Glory

 

[JunChosen]

You have no clue what's in the Bible!

Matthew 25:41 (NKJV)
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

I don't know how you understand the meaning of the phrase, "EVERLASTING FIRE?"

The way I read it, it means "death and hell!"

Revelation 20:13-15 reads....

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Revelation 21:1-5 reads....

1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God [is] with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, [and be] their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things (including the "Lake of Fire") are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

V.8 reads:

But the fearful, and unbelieving?, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

To God Be The Glory

 

[Jack]

I don't know how you understand the meaning of the phrase, "EVERLASTING FIRE?"

The way I read it, it means "death and hell!"

The way you read the Bible, babies burn in Hell.

Revelation 20:13-15 reads....

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

You carefully omitted this:

Revelation 20
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Revelation 21:1-5 reads....

1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God [is] with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, [and be] their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things (including the "Lake of Fire") are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

V.8 reads:

But the fearful, and unbelieving?, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

To God Be The Glory

Death NEVER means 'cease to exist' in the Bible. Many will wish they ceased to exist though.

The rich man died but was very much alive, tormented in the fire.

Luke 16
The rich man also died and was buried. 23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 Then he cried and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.' 25 But Abraham said, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented.

 

[ewq1938]

Death NEVER means 'cease to exist' in the Bible. Many will wish they ceased to exist though.

The second death does not mean eternal life either. It doesn't mean any life at all.

The rich man died but was very much alive, tormented in the fire.

He went to hades not the lake of fire.

 

[Jack]

The second death does not mean eternal life either. It doesn't mean any life at all.

I'm really sorry that you don't believe in everlasting life.

Same Greek word:

Matthew 25
46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into everlasting life.

He went to hades not the lake of fire.

Another Kingdom Hall victim maybe?

Revelation 20
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

 

[ewq1938]

I'm really sorry that you don't believe in everlasting life.

Not interested in your strawman fallacies.

Same Greek word:

Matthew 25
46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into everlasting life.

Another Kingdom Hall victim maybe?

The verse clearly says the righteous go into everlasting life. What cult believes the unrighteous also has everlasting life? The bible certainly doesn't support that belief.

Revelation 20
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

At best this only proves the devil, beast and FP are tormented forever. Did you know the bible uses the idea of forever and ever as a figure of speech that doesn't actually mean forever?

Isa 34:8 For it is the day of the LORD'S vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.
Isa 34:9 And the streams thereof shall be turned into pitch, and the dust thereof into brimstone, and the land thereof shall become burning pitch.
Isa 34:10 It shall not be quenched night nor day; the smoke thereof shall go up for ever: from generation to generation it shall lie waste; none shall pass through it for ever and ever.

Isaiah uses the same language concerning Edom and Edom is not still burning and people do pass through that area yet the verse says none shall pass through that area forever and ever. This is an intentional exaggeration and should be understood in that way just as Rev 20:10 should be.

Another example where "forever" does not mean forever:

Exo 21:6 Then his master shall bring him unto the judges; he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him for ever.

Not literally forever of course. It simply means "a long time", ie: the rest of his life, an intentional exaggeration.

Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Sodom and Gomorrha are not still burning therefore this eternal fire does not imply the target burns eternally but that this fire exists eternally whether it has something to burn or not and since God is a consuming fire it makes sense that it is eternal because God is eternal.


Phm 1:14 But without thy mind would I do nothing; that thy benefit should not be as it were of necessity, but willingly.
Phm 1:15 For perhaps he therefore departed for a season, that thou shouldest receive him for ever;

Of course this is impossible for mortal people to do which renders this as a figure of speech rather than literally "for ever".



Heb_2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

Even the devil will be destroyed.

Eze 28:18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
Eze 28:19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

He will be devoured by fire, turned to ashes and shall never exist anymore. That's Annihilation.


"Ye shall surely not die."


Satan said that sin would not lead to death and he lied. Now we have a doctrine that also teaches that a life of sin will not lead to eternal death.

 

[Jack]

Not interested in your strawman fallacies.

I didn't write the Bible. Let's try again:

Same Greek word! Jesus/God said:

Matthew 25
46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into everlasting life.

If everlasting punishment doesn't mean everlasting then neither does everlasting life! You're TWISTING the Hell out of Scripture!

The verse clearly says the righteous go into everlasting life. What cult believes the unrighteous also has everlasting life? The bible certainly doesn't support that belief.

Better question: Which "cult" calls Jesus a liar?

Revelation 20
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

At best this only proves the devil, beast and FP are tormented forever.

Thank you Jesus for making this JW admit that everlasting punishment is true!!! Maybe You will pull him out of the fire!

Did you know the bible uses the idea of forever and ever as a figure of speech that doesn't actually mean forever?

Then who is the "false prophet"? A JW maybe?

Basic JW doctrine: The Bible is wrong. Kingdom Hall is right!

Isa 34:8 For it is the day of the LORD'S vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.
Isa 34:9 And the streams thereof shall be turned into pitch, and the dust thereof into brimstone, and the land thereof shall become burning pitch.
Isa 34:10 It shall not be quenched night nor day; the smoke thereof shall go up for ever: from generation to generation it shall lie waste; none shall pass through it for ever and ever.

Isaiah uses the same language concerning Edom and Edom is not still burning and people do pass through that area yet the verse says none shall pass through that area forever and ever. This is an intentional exaggeration and should be understood in that way just as Rev 20:10 should be.

Another example where "forever" does not mean forever:

Exo 21:6 Then his master shall bring him unto the judges; he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him for ever.

Not literally forever of course. It simply means "a long time", ie: the rest of his life, an intentional exaggeration.

You're evading NT that says you're wrong. Even the NWT says you're wrong.

Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

There you go!

Sodom and Gomorrha are not still burning

No, but the people will be, "forever and ever"! Jesus said so.

therefore this eternal fire does not imply the target burns eternally but that this fire exists eternally whether it has something to burn or not and since God is a consuming fire it makes sense that it is eternal because God is eternal.

Phm 1:14 But without thy mind would I do nothing; that thy benefit should not be as it were of necessity, but willingly.
Phm 1:15 For perhaps he therefore departed for a season, that thou shouldest receive him for ever;

Of course this is impossible for mortal people to do which renders this as a figure of speech rather than literally "for ever".

Heb_2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

Even the devil will be destroyed.

You just called Jesus a liar again.

Revelation 20
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Eze 28:18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
Eze 28:19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

He will be devoured by fire, turned to ashes and shall never exist anymore. That's Annihilation.

Why are you avoiding the NT like plague?

"Ye shall surely not die."

Satan said that sin would not lead to death and he lied. Now we have a doctrine that also teaches that a life of sin will not lead to eternal death.

Should I believe Kingdom Hall messengers or Jesus? Even your NWT says you're wrong.

NWT!!!
Matthew 25
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Revelation 20:10
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

 

[St. SteVen]

As I thought and you have convinced me that you are very, very limited to understanding Scripture. Lol!

Hogwash.
Is an understanding of scripture based on agreeing with your particular view?

What are you trying to prove and convey with the picture in post #129?

I can put a hole right though it!!!

Pride comes before a fall.

 

[JunChosen]

Hogwash.
Is an understanding of scripture based on agreeing with your particular view?

Definitely! Because I am a child of God. I know who my Father is and He knows who I am. Reminds me of Jesus when He came to the Nation of Israel yet, practically all the Jews rejected Him except for a few who knew who He truly was.
To make matters more complicated Jesus also came speaking in parables, that seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.

I believe this is one of many reasons why the Jews did not recognize Him as the Christ. Are you one of those Jews who are wishy-washy with their doctrines that does not recognize a child of God when they see one?

Please read Ephesians Chapter 4. There are lots more I wanted to comment on but these should suffice for the moment.

To God Be The Glory

 

[JunChosen]

Hogwash.
Is an understanding of scripture based on agreeing with your particular view?

Pride comes before a fall.

Isn't he the guy with a forked-tail that uses it? You cater to him? LOL.