I suspect that the "Great White Throne Judgment" as described in Revelation is only imagery rather than an event

[Patrick1966]

@St. SteVen

We're told that when we die we are judged. I believe it is immediate. Why and how would we then appear at a later judgment, aka the "Great White Throne Judgment"?

I think John was given imagery of people being judged by Christ rather than an actual event wherein ALL people who ever lived are all judged at the same time.

I think we die and that most go to Heaven and some go to Hell.

Thoughts?

 

[GISMYS_7]

Satan doubts the truth of God's word too until he feels the flames of eternal hell.

 

[Patrick1966]

Satan doubts the truth of God's word too until he feels the flames of eternal hell.

As soon as I saw that it was you that responded I knew a zany response awaited me. Thanks for the laugh.

 

[teamventure]

@St. SteVen

We're told that when we die we are judged. I believe it is immediate. Why and how would we then appear at a later judgment, aka the "Great White Throne Judgment"?

I think John was given imagery of people being judged by Christ rather than an actual event wherein ALL people who ever lived are all judged at the same time.

I think we die and that most go to Heaven and some go to Hell.

Thoughts?

It's an interesting assertion but where do you get that most go to heaven and some go go hell?

“Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
Matthew 7:13‭-‬14 NIV

 

[Patrick1966]

“Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
Matthew 7:13‭-‬14 NIV

I think Jesus was saying that few would actually follow the narrow path to the narrow gate and those are the righteous. Jesus also said he came for sinners, not the righteous. In considering the nature of God and other scriptures, I believe that the vast majority of people immediately go to Heaven upon death. I believe the truly wicked are condemned to a stay in the Lake of Fire.

 

[Patrick1966]

It's an interesting assertion but where do you get that most go to heaven and some go go hell?

I believe that the scriptures tell us that, in the end, ALL people who ever lived will happily and willingly follow and worship Jesus, even Satan and demons. Jesus will rule until ALL of his enemies are "under his feet". That means until all of his enemies are no longer his enemies and are actually serving him.

1 Corinthians 15:22-25 ESV
22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ. 24 Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.

 

[marks]

@St. SteVen

We're told that when we die we are judged. I believe it is immediate. Why and how would we then appear at a later judgment, aka the "Great White Throne Judgment"?

I think John was given imagery of people being judged by Christ rather than an actual event wherein ALL people who ever lived are all judged at the same time.

I think we die and that most go to Heaven and some go to Hell.

Thoughts?

How many parts of the Bible will you read but not believe? This is narrative prophecy. It will happen.

God has appointed a day when all will be judged, and this is a description of what part of that will look like.

Acts 17:30-31
(30) And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
(31) Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

Much love!

 

[ewq1938]

@St. SteVen

We're told that when we die we are judged. I believe it is immediate. Why and how would we then appear at a later judgment, aka the "Great White Throne Judgment"?

We are not throne judged when we die. Scripture presents judgment of a group. Two judgments are found in Rev 20, one of the righteous dead, the first resurrection group and later the rest of the dead resurrect and are judged.

I think John was given imagery of people being judged by Christ rather than an actual event wherein ALL people who ever lived are all judged at the same time.

The second resurrection is all the unsaved. How can all be judged individually when they die when judgment follows a resurrection? How can the unsaved die the second death without being resurrected to life a second time?

I think we die and that most go to Heaven and some go to Hell.

Christ said most will not find life on a wide road while few find life on that narrow road. The two groups are judged separately and a resurrection will be associated with a judgment.

 

[Patrick1966]

How many parts of the Bible will you read but not believe?

Am I doomed to Hell if I misunderstand a verse?

 

[Patrick1966]

(31) Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

Is it possible that that day of judgment is actually referring to the return of Christ?

 

[jeffweeder]

@St. SteVen

We're told that when we die we are judged. I believe it is immediate. Why and how would we then appear at a later judgment, aka the "Great White Throne Judgment"?

I think John was given imagery of people being judged by Christ rather than an actual event wherein ALL people who ever lived are all judged at the same time.

I think we die and that most go to Heaven and some go to Hell.

Thoughts?

Its a time of sentencing.

like satan is judged already, but he is only thrown into the fire much later at the end.


Jn 16
7 But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper (Comforter, Advocate, Intercessor—Counselor, Strengthener, Standby) will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him (the Holy Spirit) to you [to be in close fellowship with you].

8 And He, when He comes, will convict the world about [the guilt of] sin [and the need for a Savior], and about righteousness, and about judgment:
9 about sin [and the true nature of it], because they do not believe in Me [and My message];
10 about righteousness [personal integrity and godly character], because I am going to My Father and you will no longer see Me;
11 about judgment [the certainty of it], because the ruler of this world (Satan) has been judged and condemned.


Rev 20
11 And I saw a great white throne and Him who was seated upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them [for this heaven and earth are passing away].

 

[Patrick1966]

Its a time of sentencing.

like satan is judged already, but he is only thrown into the fire much later at the end.


Jn 16
7 But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper (Comforter, Advocate, Intercessor—Counselor, Strengthener, Standby) will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him (the Holy Spirit) to you [to be in close fellowship with you].

8 And He, when He comes, will convict the world about [the guilt of] sin [and the need for a Savior], and about righteousness, and about judgment:
9 about sin [and the true nature of it], because they do not believe in Me [and My message];
10 about righteousness [personal integrity and godly character], because I am going to My Father and you will no longer see Me;
11 about judgment [the certainty of it], because the ruler of this world (Satan) has been judged and condemned.


Rev 20
11 And I saw a great white throne and Him who was seated upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them [for this heaven and earth are passing away].

Thank you. It's interesting to speculate about such things.

 

[marks]

Am I doomed to Hell if I misunderstand a verse?

That's not what dooms people to hell. I think that God gives us a lot of grace in the mistakes we make. At the end of it all I believe we have exactly one hope, and that is the truth that Jesus Christ really does save us in His death and resurrection, and living His life in us, that we can grow into becoming like Him.

When we choose to believe in that truth, to receive Jesus to ourselves, our Lord, our Life, God restores our relationship to Himself by restoring to us the spiritual life which Adam lost, and we had never known. He makes us alive spiritually, alive in a new spiritual realm, having communion with the One Who is Spirit.

Those who do not receive Him do not receive His life, and remain in what the Bible calls death. Though alive as we call it, God calls us dead in sin, separated from Himself. Jesus said that eternal life is knowing God, and knowing Jesus Christ. Relationship.

We've been restored to relationship with our Creator through Jesus, being reborn, spirit born from Spirit. Our flesh, like all flesh of those of Adam's race, is corrupted by sin. All corrupt flesh is condemned.

God judged our flesh in Christ when He died, and we were "immersed into His death", and burial, to share His new life. While we remain still in corrupt flesh, being still in this realm, to which the flesh is suited, God has promised that we will be clothed with incorruptability. The old flesh, the natural life from Adam will be gone.

That is for the one who is born again.

The one who has not been reborn remains a fleshy man born from Adam's line. Not spiritually alive, so unable to know God in a way to bring eternal life. That new life had never been created.

The judgment we through which we pass being in Christ, just as Noah was in the ark, destroys those who are not in Christ, as the flood destroyed all not in the ark.

What dooms someone to be condemned under God's judgment is that they are dead in their sin - and I saw the dead - and sinful and unrighteous dead are to be thrown in the lake of fire.

Sobering thoughts!

Much love!

 

[ewq1938]

Am I doomed to Hell if I misunderstand a verse?

Depends on the verse.

Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

Wouldn't be good to misunderstand this one ie: take the mark not understanding the implications.

 

[marks]

Is it possible that that day of judgment is actually referring to the return of Christ?

We can consider all the possibilities. Another, is it possible that there is a day of judgment of those in Christ that is different from the day of judgment of those who are not, or are these the same day?

I think we need to be specific about what the judgment we are talking about is, considering that there are different sorts of judgments mentioned, or seem to be to me.

Do you have verses in mind of the day of judgment?

Much love!

 

[Patrick1966]

We can consider all the possibilities. Another, is it possible that there is a day of judgment of those in Christ that is different from the day of judgment of those who are not, or are these the same day?

I think we need to be specific about what the judgment we are talking about is, considering that there are different sorts of judgments mentioned, or seem to be to me.

Do you have verses in mind of the day of judgment?

Much love!

Not at this moment but I'll have to study further.

 

[teamventure]

I think Jesus was saying that few would actually follow the narrow path to the narrow gate and those are the righteous. Jesus also said he came for sinners, not the righteous. In considering the nature of God and other scriptures, I believe that the vast majority of people immediately go to Heaven upon death. I believe the truly wicked are condemned to a stay in the Lake of Fire.

That just doesn't make sense from a conjectural statistical perspective. Most people don't identify with being Christian, under 10%

 

[Patrick1966]

Depends on the verse.

Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

Wouldn't be good to misunderstand this one ie: take the mark not understanding the implications.

Fair point, I guess.

 

[Patrick1966]

That just doesn't make sense from a conjectural statistical perspective. Most people don't identify with being Christian, under 10%

I understand. I think most people are decent and upon death will meet and follow Jesus into paradise. I think the only exceptions are people that are truly evil. I think they'll go to the Lake of Fire for cleansing.

 

[ewq1938]

I understand. I think most people are decent and upon death will meet and follow Jesus into paradise. I think the only exceptions are people that are truly evil. I think they'll go to the Lake of Fire for cleansing.

Why did Jesus say the wide road has most people and that it isn't going to heaven? Why would he say that if most people are good and will follow Jesus to heaven?

Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Matthew 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.



The way to destruction is wide and the majority will be destroyed. Only a minority will find the way to life.