I understand what being thrown alive into the lake of fire means

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Big Boy Johnson

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Revelation 21:8 But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”

It seems the wicked receive only a portion. Idk why I desire to defend them, guess it's because I believe that even wicked resurrected people reside in the heavenly realm outside of the Heavenly Kingdom. And if they only receive a portion, I wonder if they what little left of that spark of God that was left in them, can be saved and come into the Heavenly Kingdom.

It means they will have their part in the lake of fire.... in other words they will be a participant
along with all the others being tormented for eternity along with satan and his demons.

Matthew 25:46
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.


Jesus say they will be punished forever... not cease to exist.
 
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MatthewG

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It means they will have their part in the lake of fire.... in other words they will be a participant
along with all the others being tormented for eternity along with satan and his demons.

Matthew 25:46
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.


Jesus say they will be punished forever... not cease to exist.

Sure, as long as the age last until it ends. People in this earth reject God by on the merit of the will, of saying, excuse my language, "F" God. I was at that point in my own life, while I believe everyone is going to be resurrected as Jesus stated, there seems to me to be an outside of the Kingdom, and an inside of the Heavenly Kingdom.

Their punishment could reside until the last farthering. It's not God punishment on them either, it's their own punishment based on their own desires and aspirations concering their desires and wants, can they ever turn around in the Heavenly Realm?

Some say no. I suggest, yes and perhaps that will be a job for me, or you to go out and bring people into the Kingdom even after this life.

I do not believe people will have a porition with Satan or Demons, personally. But they will be going through the lake of fire, which comes from Yahavah, and there is a purging in which perhaps that little that did desire Yahavah is found, and they are restored though they may be only given some type of reward dont know by God, maybe they can get a resurrected body of life, rather than the old resurrection body of condemnation.

Who is truly to say? I believe and have hopes in a very good and loving and justifying God, named Yahavah. And his will is for none to perish but all shall be made alive after this life, and of course be resurrected by condemnation, or by life, (or even a better resurrection.)

John 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good to the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, to the resurrection of damnation.
 

Big Boy Johnson

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can they ever turn around in the Heavenly Realm?

No, once one leaves this world their fate is sealed... they are either born again and will spend eternity with the Lord, or they are lost and will be tormented forever in hell.


I suggest, yes

You have no scripture for this because God's Word does not teach purgatory...
That came from a bunch of catholics back in the day when they were getting drunk


perhaps that will be a job for me, or you to go out and bring people into the Kingdom even after this life.

No, nobody will be going in to hell to get people saved.


I do not believe people will have a porition with Satan or Demons, personally.

That's because you don't accept what God's Word says on the matter.


they will be going through the lake of fire, which comes from Yahavah, and there is a purging in which perhaps that little that did desire Yahavah is found, and they are restored

No, that's false doctrine.... only the catholic heretics believe this garbage

God's Word does not teach this, but the cattholics teach this among other false doctrine.


Who is truly to say?

God tells us in His Word... too bad you reject what He says.
 

ewq1938

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Revelation 21:8 But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”

It seems the wicked receive only a portion.


It doesn't say they receive a portion like a little bit. It means a full portion which is to fully be thrown into the LOF and be burned up, like fat being burned and turning into smoke. That's Annihilation.
 
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MatthewG

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Thank you for sharing your report of what think and believe @Big Boy Johnson. I don’t believe what everyone has to foretell on the internet.
 

MatthewG

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It doesn't say they receive a portion like a little bit. It means a full portion which is to fully be thrown into the LOF and be burned up, like fat being burned and turning into smoke. That's Annihilation.
Only drunk a portion of wine, is a pouring of a portion. It is not the whole bottle. I don’t believe what everyone has to say in the internet.
 

Big Boy Johnson

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That's Annihilation.

Annihilation is one of satan's crafty lies... designed to get unbelievers to decide not to get saved.

Those advocating for the false doctrine of annihilation are causing people to go to hell and have blood on their hands...
 

ewq1938

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Annihilation is one of satan's crafty lies... designed to get unbelievers to decide not to get saved.

No, it's from the bible and the supporting verses are ignored by those who reject them.
 

Big Boy Johnson

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No, it's from the bible and the supporting verses are ignored by those who reject them.

One must twist scripture and follow the anointing of demons to believe in annihilation

You people are cl;aiming Jesus Christ... is a liar which you learned from satan and his demons!

Jesus says those that go to hell will burn in fire that shall NOT be quenched into everlasting punishment

Mark 9:43-44
And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Matthew 25:46

And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Texts like Jude 6, Matthew 8:12, Matthew 22:13, and Matthew 25:30 show that darkness signifies a state of deprivation and distress, not of destruction in the sense of ceasing to exist. Only those who exist can weep and gnash their teeth, as those banished into the darkness are said to do. Luke 16:22–24 shows that fire signifies continued existence in pain as Revelation 14:10 with 19:20 and 20:10, and Matthew 13:42, 50, confirm this.

Another good case against annihilationism is ”And the smoke of their torment rises forever and ever” in Rev. 14:11.
 

ewq1938

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Another good case against annihilationism is ”And the smoke of their torment rises forever and ever” in Rev. 14:11.

Hardly:

Psalms 37:20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.


Perishing and being burned and being consumed into smoke means they are Annihilated.
 

Big Boy Johnson

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Well it's sad you people consider Jesus Christ to be a liar.... these other scriptures need to be interpreted from Jesus's
point of view meaning perish is not ceasing to exist but instead is to be separated from the Lord for all eternity.

Matthew 25:46
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

People will remain awake and fully conscience as they are punished for eternity just like satan and his demons

So, enjoy the rewards that come with calling Jesus.... a liar!
devil_smiley5.gif
 

ewq1938

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Well it's sad you people consider Jesus Christ to be a liar.... these other scriptures need to be interpreted from Jesus's
point of view meaning perish is not ceasing to exist but instead is to be separated from the Lord for all eternity.


That's how you change the meaning by interpreting intentionally the way you want. You completely ignore clear scripture for Annihilation like Psalms 37:20 .


That is evidence that you are avoiding the real truth.
 
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ewq1938

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Well it's sad you people consider Jesus Christ to be a liar.... these other scriptures need to be interpreted from Jesus's
point of view meaning perish is not ceasing to exist but instead is to be separated from the Lord for all eternity.

Matthew 25:46
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

People will remain awake and fully conscience as they are punished for eternity just like satan and his demons

Doesn't say that though so why claim it?


Matthew 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.


1) correction, punishment, penalty

The lexicon there says the word punishment in this verse means "correction, punishment, penalty" not firery torment. As I have been saying, the kind of "correction, punishment, penalty" inflicted is unnamed in this verse but is given many places elsewhere as both death and destruction.



The righteous are not sinless but they repent and love God and believe upon Christ and that is counted righteous and though all are wicked in some sense, it is only those who love unrighteousness, who do not love God, who don't repent and don't follow Christ that shall be destroyed.


Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Matthew 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.



The way to destruction is wide and the majority will be destroyed. Only a minority will find the way to life.



Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Technically only the Devil is said to be tormented day and night for ever but we can't assume “day and night forever and ever” is literal based on other scriptures that use the same type of language non-literally:


Isa 34:8 For it is the day of the LORD'S vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.
Isa 34:9 And the streams thereof shall be turned into pitch, and the dust thereof into brimstone, and the land thereof shall become burning pitch.
Isa 34:10 It shall not be quenched night nor day; the smoke thereof shall go up for ever: from generation to generation it shall lie waste; none shall pass through it for ever and ever.

Isaiah uses the same language concerning Edom and Edom is not still burning and people do pass through that area yet the verse says none shall pass through that area forever and ever. This is an intentional exaggeration and should be understood in that way just as Rev 20:10 should be.

Another example where "forever" does not mean forever:

Exo 21:6 Then his master shall bring him unto the judges; he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him for ever.

Not literally forever of course. It simply means "a long time", ie: the rest of his life, an intentional exaggeration.

Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Sodom and Gomorrha are not still burning therefore this eternal fire does not imply the target burns eternally but that this fire exists eternally whether it has something to burn or not and since God is a consuming fire it makes sense that it is eternal because God is eternal.


Phm 1:14 But without thy mind would I do nothing; that thy benefit should not be as it were of necessity, but willingly.
Phm 1:15 For perhaps he therefore departed for a season, that thou shouldest receive him for ever;

Of course this is impossible for mortal people to do which renders this as a figure of speech rather than literally "for ever".



Heb_2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

Even the devil will be destroyed.

Eze 28:18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
Eze 28:19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

He will be devoured by fire, turned to ashes and shall never exist anymore. That's Annihilation.


"Ye shall surely not die."


Satan said that sin would not lead to death and he lied. Now we have a doctrine that also teaches that a life of sin will not lead to eternal death.
 

amigo de christo

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It means they will have their part in the lake of fire.... in other words they will be a participant
along with all the others being tormented for eternity along with satan and his demons.

Matthew 25:46
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.


Jesus say they will be punished forever... not cease to exist.
 
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Phil .

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Christ isn’t a murderer.
Perhaps there’s an introspective twist to the passage(s).
 
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ewq1938

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Only those that cannot READ.... cannot understand "And these shall go away into everlasting punishment"


The punishment is the second death and it is everlasting. You claim they stay alive forever, going against the second death the bible says will happen. Jesus also spoke against what you are claiming:


John_3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life ; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

"shall not see life" means will not be alive.



Universalism -all people (saved and unsaved) will see life in the New Heaven and new Earth for all eternity--FALSE DOCTRINE

Eternal torment -all unsaved people will see life in torment (lake of fire) for all eternity--FALSE DOCTRINE

Annihilationism - all unsaved people will not see life as Christ said.--TRUE DOCTRINE


Only Annihilation matches what Christ taught in John_3:36.


The first death is only death of the physical body. The second death is the death of body, soul and spirit. If one is saved, then the body, soul and spirit are preserved but the unsaved will not have theirs preserved because they will be dead and burned up which destroys them completely.


fate of the unsaved:


Mat_10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell .


fate of the saved:


1Th_5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ .



The Hebrew word for “fire” is esh. It is spelled with the Hebrew letters, aleph and sheen. Aleph means an ox and denotes strength. Sheen means teeth and denotes consuming or devouring. Thus, “fire” literally means a strong devourer. Hence, our God is a consuming fire (Deut. 4:24; Heb. 12:29).


The bible promotes Annihilationism. Eternal torment is a false doctrine which violates the truth of John 3:36.
 

TheHC

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Why believe that “spirits” can literally be hurt by fire, anyways?

Remember the three Hebrews, Shadrach, Meshach, & Abednego (who faced Nebuchadnezzar)?

They were thrown into the furnace, but an Angel was sent to save them.

The fire didn’t hurt them.

The Lake of Fire in Revelation 20:13,14 is figurative. (Remember that ‘death is cast into it’? What does that mean? You can’t burn death.) It is symbolic of complete destruction/annihilation, nothing more. Whatever is thrown in there, is simply no more.

And that’s what Revelation 21:4 says. “Death will be no more.”
 
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ewq1938

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Only those that cannot READ.... cannot understand "And these shall go away into everlasting punishment"

Only Annihilation fits that since the punishment given at the GWTJ is eternal death.
 
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