I understand what being thrown alive into the lake of fire means

[dev553344]

I am therefore putting a warning up about the end times so that I am free of its evil. It is a warning to all those who commit brutal and sexual works of evil the the deceivers, etc:

Ezekial 3:18 When I say to the wicked, ‘You shall surely die,’ and you give him no warning, nor speak to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life, that same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood I will require at your hand. 19 Yet, if you warn the wicked, and he does not turn from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but you have delivered your soul.

I had a powerful vision that appeared as a dream some 25 or more years ago, where the Peninsula here in Washington State had a large volcano erupting from the sea next to it and all the people were terrified and the lava was about to kill them all. I was flying over it as an angel so it would be after I die. And now I know what it means.

When Christ returns he will burn the wicked from the planet:

Matthew 13:41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!

This section in Revelation refers to seismic and volcanic eruptions when Christ returns, being cast alive into the lake of fire:

Revelation 19:20 Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone.

 

[ewq1938]

Fire destroys something. This is a fire of God, so whatever thrown into it will be consumed completely.

Psalms 37:20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.

Perishing and being burned and being consumed into smoke means they are Annihilated.

 

[dev553344]

Fire destroys something. This is a fire of God, so whatever thrown into it will be consumed completely.

Psalms 37:20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.

Perishing and being burned and being consumed into smoke means they are Annihilated.

Yes, I've always known that hell is in the heart of the earth as described by the bible and Jesus visiting it. And when Christ returns I think the seismic and volcanic activity will bring hell onto the earth to burn the wicked. I can only think that Jesus will collect his children first. And that is what is meant by being cast alive into the lake of fire.

 

[ewq1938]

Yes, I've always known that hell is in the heart of the earth as described by the bible and Jesus visiting it.

hades/the pit is described as being in the Earth but the LOF is placed at the GWTJ which is not on or in the Earth but somewhere away from the Earth and Heaven according to Rev 20.

And when Christ returns I think the seismic and volcanic activity will bring hell onto the earth to burn the wicked.

There's no verse that describes anything like that.

I can only think that Jesus will collect his children first. And that is what is meant by being cast alive into the lake of fire.

People will be on the Earth while the unsaved are judged elsewhere so no removal of people from Earth will be needed or even happen when the unsaved are judged and cast into fire.

 

[dev553344]

hades/the pit is described as being in the Earth but the LOF is placed at the GWTJ which is not on or in the Earth but somewhere away from the Earth and Heaven according to Rev 20.





There's no verse that describes anything like that.





People will be on the Earth while the unsaved are judged elsewhere so no removal of people from Earth will be needed or even happen when the unsaved are judged and cast into fire.

I know there is a lot of strange beliefs that are pushed in this forum area of the Prophecy section. I don't believe in myths or magic or delusions of scripture. I believe in science and real phenomena that can be explained. God is highly intelligent and can affect his environment which is the universe in physical ways. And it is by physics that he effects them. He works with natural and spiritual laws.

Lava is the lake of fire and the heart of the earth are that fire. And hell is in the hot area within the earth. It burns both body and spirit. The earth is created both physically and spiritually. That is the nature of things. Review again the following verses:

Matthew 12:40 For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Matthew 3:18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, 19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.

Luke 16:19 “There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day. 20 But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate, 21 desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 “Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’ 25 But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. 26 And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.’ 27 “Then he said, ‘I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father’s house, 28 for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.’ 29 Abraham said to him, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.’ 30 And he said, ‘No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ 31 But he said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.’ ”

Reading and understanding these scriptures in a logical and reasonable way we draw the conclusion that normal people do. That the core of the planet is where spirits go that are tormented by fire day and night forever.

 

[dev553344]

@ewq1938 here is another scripture that re-asserts the same thing about being thrown alive in the lake of fire. It is said over and over to not get it wrong by the readers. So tell me what is fire and brimstone to you? It is in fact lava, seismic and volcanic activity:

Revelation 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, 10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: 11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

 

[ewq1938]

I know there is a lot of strange beliefs that are pushed in this forum area of the Prophecy section. I don't believe in myths or magic or delusions of scripture. I believe in science and real phenomena that can be explained. God is highly intelligent and can affect his environment which is the universe in physical ways. And it is by physics that he effects them. He works with natural and spiritual laws.

Lava is the lake of fire and the heart of the earth are that fire. And hell is in the hot area within the earth. It burns both body and spirit.

If that were true then Christ's spirit and the spirits he preached to would have died because you claim lava can kill a spirit.

Hades is in the Earth and might be lava but the LOF is not on or in the Earth at all and certainly isn't made of lava.

The earth is created both physically and spiritually. That is the nature of things. Review again the following verses:

Matthew 12:40 For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Matthew 3:18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, 19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.

Luke 16:19 “There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day. 20 But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate, 21 desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 “Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’ 25 But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. 26 And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.’ 27 “Then he said, ‘I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father’s house, 28 for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.’ 29 Abraham said to him, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.’ 30 And he said, ‘No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ 31 But he said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.’ ”

Reading and understanding these scriptures in a logical and reasonable way we draw the conclusion that normal people do. That the core of the planet is where spirits go that are tormented by fire day and night forever.

You are conflating hades and the LOF. They are separate places.

 

[ewq1938]

@ewq1938 here is another scripture that re-asserts the same thing about being thrown alive in the lake of fire. It is said over and over to not get it wrong by the readers. So tell me what is fire and brimstone to you? It is in fact lava, seismic and volcanic activity:

Revelation 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, 10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: 11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Psa_37:20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.

How long does fat last in fire? What does "into smoke shall they consume away" mean?

 

[dev553344]

The following speaks of burning the wicked off the earth also. I know a lot of Christians think the baptism of fire means holy ghost, but I'm starting to question that belief as the following verse says he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. 12 His winnowing fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clean out His threshing floor, and gather His wheat into the barn; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”

 

[dev553344]

If that were true then Christ's spirit and the spirits he preached to would have died because you claim lava can kill a spirit.

Hades is in the Earth and might be lava but the LOF is not on or in the Earth at all and certainly isn't made of lava.







You are conflating hades and the LOF. They are separate places.

Interesting as this seems to be a false belief of yours. You say die as if they ceased to exist. But scripture clearly disagrees with that idea as it spells out their torment is forever and ever. The bodies are burned alive and their spirits descend into the heart of the earth where they are burned forever and ever. That is spiritual death or the second death the scriptures speak of.

Death is not being part of eternal life. And the lake of fire's torment forever is certainly not eternal life in any sense.

The spirits don't cease to exist. They are tormented forever and ever as I have described. Perhaps you should take another look at the following scriptures again. It mentions fire and brimestone which are lava and volcanic, and then spells out torment forever and ever. How can this be? It is because it is exactly as I explained it:

Revelation 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: 11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

 

[ewq1938]

Interesting as this seems to be a false belief of yours. You say die as if they ceased to exist.

Then you don't agree with the verse?

Psa_37:20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.

What is a "false belief" here?

But scripture clearly disagrees with that idea as it spells out their torment is forever and ever. The bodies are burned alive and their spirits descend into the heart of the earth where they are burned forever and ever. That is spiritual death or the second death the scriptures speak of.

Death is not being part of eternal life. And the lake of fire's torment forever is certainly not eternal life in any sense.

That is eternal life which means alive forever. You can't say someone is alive forever in torment and deny they aren't alive.

Revelation 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: 11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

This doesn't say anyone is alive forever in fire. The smoke ascends forever which simply means the result of being burned and turned into smoke is permanent not that smoke can rise upward forever and the day and night is a reference to what happens while alive after taking the mark as there is no day and night in the LOF.

 

[dev553344]

Then you don't agree with the verse?

Psa_37:20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.

What is a "false belief" here?





That is eternal life which means alive forever. You can't say someone is alive forever in torment and deny they aren't alive.







This doesn't say anyone is alive forever in fire. The smoke ascends forever which simply means the result of being burned and turned into smoke is permanent not that smoke can rise upward forever and the day and night is a reference to what happens while alive after taking the mark as there is no day and night in the LOF.

Consume away is the body? As in fat. And that is from Psalms 37:20? Which is not necessarily talking about hell. Could have been some war back in the day where bodies were burnt.

There may be a temporary spirit prison in the earth as well.

So you don't believe hell is eternal torment? And you think God will destroy spirits in the lake of fire or something. Then you must be ignoring scripture to form this belief. Take another look:

Matthew 25:45 Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

 

[ewq1938]

Consume away is the body? As in fat. And that is from Psalms 37:20? Which is not necessarily talking about hell. Could have been some war back in the day where bodies were burnt.

It's speaking of what happens to the wicked. It's about the LOF.

There may be a temporary spirit prison in the earth as well.

It's called hades. It is not the LOF.

So you don't believe hell is eternal torment? And you think God will destroy spirits in the lake of fire or something. Then you must be ignoring scripture to form this belief.

I have already posted scripture that proves what I believe in.

Take another look:

Matthew 25:45 Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

The punishment is everlasting and the punishment is the second death, not eternal life.


John_3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life ; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

"shall not see life" means will not be alive.



Universalism -all people (saved and unsaved) will see life in the New Heaven and new Earth for all eternity--FALSE DOCTRINE

Eternal torment -all unsaved people will see life in torment (lake of fire) for all eternity--FALSE DOCTRINE

Annihilationism - all unsaved people will not see life as Christ said.--TRUE DOCTRINE


Only Annihilation matches what Christ taught in John_3:36.


The first death is only death of the physical body. The second death is the death of body, soul and spirit. If one is saved, then the body, soul and spirit are preserved but the unsaved will not have theirs preserved because they will be dead and burned up which destroys them completely.


fate of the unsaved:


Mat_10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell .


fate of the saved:


1Th_5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ .



The Hebrew word for “fire” is esh. It is spelled with the Hebrew letters, aleph and sheen. Aleph means an ox and denotes strength. Sheen means teeth and denotes consuming or devouring. Thus, “fire” literally means a strong devourer. Hence, our God is a consuming fire (Deut. 4:24; Heb. 12:29).


The bible promotes Annihilationism. Eternal torment is a false doctrine which violates the truth of John 3:36.

 

[dev553344]

It's speaking of what happens to the wicked. It's about the LOF.




It's called hades. It is not the LOF.




I have already posted scripture that proves what I believe in.







The punishment is everlasting and the punishment is the second death, not eternal life.


John_3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life ; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

"shall not see life" means will not be alive.



Universalism -all people (saved and unsaved) will see life in the New Heaven and new Earth for all eternity--FALSE DOCTRINE

Eternal torment -all unsaved people will see life in torment (lake of fire) for all eternity--FALSE DOCTRINE

Annihilationism - all unsaved people will not see life as Christ said.--TRUE DOCTRINE


Only Annihilation matches what Christ taught in John_3:36.


The first death is only death of the physical body. The second death is the death of body, soul and spirit. If one is saved, then the body, soul and spirit are preserved but the unsaved will not have theirs preserved because they will be dead and burned up which destroys them completely.


fate of the unsaved:


Mat_10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell .


fate of the saved:


1Th_5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ .



The Hebrew word for “fire” is esh. It is spelled with the Hebrew letters, aleph and sheen. Aleph means an ox and denotes strength. Sheen means teeth and denotes consuming or devouring. Thus, “fire” literally means a strong devourer. Hence, our God is a consuming fire (Deut. 4:24; Heb. 12:29).


The bible promotes Annihilationism. Eternal torment is a false doctrine which violates the truth of John 3:36.

I don't believe in annihilationism. So we disagree.

Here for the reader is a little info on who believes in annihilationism in general: Annihilationism - Wikipedia

 

[ewq1938]

I don't believe in annihilationism. So we disagree.

And the bible does not promise eternal life to the unsaved plus the bible states the unsaved would die the second death, and be consumed and destroyed.

Look at how many scriptures refute the idea of eternal life in torturous hell fire:



"The soul that sinneth, it shall die." Ezekiel 18:4.

"He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death." Revelation 2:11

"And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." Revelation 20:14,15.

"The earth and all the inhabitants thereof are dissolved." Psalm 75:3.

"Let the sinners be consumed out of the earth, and let the wicked be no more." Psalm 104:35.

"Consume them in wrath, consume them, that they may not be." Psalm 59:13.

"The Lord preserveth all them that love him: but all the wicked will he destroy." Psalm 145:20

"When the wicked spring as the grass, and when all the workers of iniquity do flourish; it is that they shall be destroyed for ever: Psalm 92:7

"For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be as stubble; and the day cometh that shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch." Malachi 4:1

"And the destruction of the transgressors and of the sinners shall be together, and they that forsake the LORD shall be consumed." Isaiah 1:28

"Enter ye in at the straight gate: for wide is the fate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat." Matthew 7:13

"But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away." Psalms 37:20

Judgment is a decision to reward or punish someone. The judgement/punishment for sin is death (Romans 6:23), which is also called the second death (Rev 21:8), and that judgement/punishment is written to be eternal/everlasting (Mark 3:29, Hebrews 6:2). So, eternal punishment is an eternal death.

 

[dev553344]

"Today, earthquakes are becoming more frequent and more severe as a result of global warming. While earthquakes cause tsunamis, new research is revealing that vast storms like hurricanes, along with other events brought on by climate change, can lead to an increase in seismic activity and thereby cause more earthquakes." Earthquakes in a Warming World

I know the media likes to blame global warming on everything that happens these days, but that may not be the facts.

 

[Davy]

Man, there is some really WILD stuff being thrown out in this thread that is NOT written in God's Word.

According to Apostle Peter in 2 Peter 3:10, on the last day of this present world, which will be the "day of the Lord", God's "consuming fire" will burn all of man's works off the surface of this earth. That is the fire referenced to happen on the last day that will end... this present world time.

And Peter is comparing that future destruction with God's previous destructions of waters spread upon the whole earth. The earth itself will not... be totally destroyed, but only what is upon its surface, and the end of Hebrews 12 confirms this also.

A simple volcano is not going to accomplish that. It could only symbolically represent the future literal event of God's "consuming fire" on the last day.

The "lake of fire" is NOT God's "consuming fire" event on the "day of the Lord". The "lake of fire" is a ONE TIME event that will destroy the wicked, the above of hell (haides), and death, after... Christ's future "thousand years" reign.

The Matthew 13 Scripture about destruction of the "tares" does not mention Christ's future "thousand years" reign, but that doesn't mean that future 1,000 years reign won't happen. Christ gave His Book of Revelation after those Gospel Books.

 

[Cassandra]

I don't believe in annihilationism. So we disagree.

Here for the reader is a little info on who believes in annihilationism in general: Annihilationism - Wikipedia

Dev No one is immortal except for God. We will be able to eat from the Tree of Life which will give us eternal life. The tree was denied to Adam and Eve after sin because no longer were they allowed to live forever. Even John 3:16 says those who believe shall not perish but have eternal life. what does perish mean? It doesn't mean that the wicked will live with no bodies--it means they will die. It was Satan who told the first lie "Ye shall not surely die? If you look in the Book of Jude, verse 7 7 "In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire." that was eternal fire--utter destruction. Is sodom still burning--no. that is eternal destruction. Its gone, and so are the people.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Jesus says those that go to hell will burn in fire that shall NOT be quenched into everlasting punishment

Mark 9:43-44
And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Matthew 25:46
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Texts like Jude 6, Matthew 8:12, Matthew 22:13, and Matthew 25:30 show that darkness signifies a state of deprivation and distress, not of destruction in the sense of ceasing to exist.

Only those who exist can weep and gnash their teeth, as those banished into the darkness are said to do. Luke 16:22–24 shows that fire signifies continued existence in pain as Revelation 14:10 with 19:20 and 20:10, and Matthew 13:42, 50, confirm this.

Another good case against annihilationism is ”And the smoke of their torment rises forever and ever” in Rev. 14:11.

 

[MatthewG]

Fire destroys something. This is a fire of God, so whatever thrown into it will be consumed completely.

Psalms 37:20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.

Perishing and being burned and being consumed into smoke means they are Annihilated.

Revelation 21:8 But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”

It seems the wicked receive only a portion. Idk why I desire to defend them, guess it's because I believe that even wicked resurrected people reside in the heavenly realm outside of the Heavenly Kingdom. And if they only receive a portion, I wonder if they what little left of that spark of God that was left in them, can be saved and come into the Heavenly Kingdom.

Just some of my thoughts concerning the out of scope.