"I will draw all men unto me." - Excerpt from J. Preston Eby

[David in NJ]

Thank God for Christian Moms.

What I wrote in post #49 still applies.
"Only those familiar with the gospel message would make the connection.
Which is the biggest problem with your stance. All your points are from a Christian perspective.
Even a Jewish person wouldn't make these connections.
And they certainly believe in a creator God. Same God, in fact."

And I would posit that all the world religions acknowledge a creator.
Did they miss the gospel somehow? The gospel you claim is obvious.

God made man from a 'Christian' perspective.

The Creation was made from a 'Christian' perspective.

The Jews who knew these things were killed off by the unbelieving Jews.

But although He had done so many signs before them, they did not believe in Him, that the word of Isaiah the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spoke:

“Lord, who has believed our report?
And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?”

Therefore they could not believe, because Isaiah said again:

“He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts,
Lest they should see with their eyes,
Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn,
So that I should heal them.”

These things Isaiah said when he saw His glory and spoke of Him.

 

[St. SteVen]

God can also speak to individuals through dreams too, there have been many testimonies of this, God can bring forth those who are broken hearted and looking and searching, no matter where they are in the Kosmos.

I agree, but...
Remember, the point I am defending is that creation does not reveal the gospel message.

God looks at the heart, and there are people out there who dont have a bible or the good news in those written pages but if they are looking towards God and his glory - who Is Christ, that is a whole different story, Steven.

I agree, but...
Remember, the point I am defending is that creation does not reveal the gospel message.

It's the heart God wants, and people become transformed - some only have the natural prescene, and then there are those who have - Christ illustrated - meaning the Word made flesh to read about and look to and understand what he has done, he was the one who made the world.

Of course.
Remember, the point I am defending is that creation does not reveal the gospel message.

All the best to you, Steven, regardless if you dismiss or be nonchalant about it towards me.
Love you too,
Matthew

You as well. Glad to see we are speaking terms again.
Certainly not my intention to seem dismissive or "be nonchalant" towards you.

I confirmed that what you are observing is certainly there from a Christian perspective.
However, even if the non-Christian observer of creation acknowledged a creator,
creation does not reveal who the creator is, nor how to establish a relationship.
That's my point.

And the BIGGER issue is...
the misuse of Romans chapter one to claim that unbelievers are without excuse.
Meaning, there is an obvious gospel message in creation alone. Not so.

When I ask forum posters about the countless billions that have gone into the afterlife
with no knowledge of Christ, they point to Romans one to say there is no excuse.
Do you buy that reasoning?

 

[St. SteVen]

God made man from a 'Christian' perspective.

The Creation was made from a 'Christian' perspective.

Curious about how you arrived at that conclusion.

Are you saying that this is obvious to non-Christians? How so?

 

[St. SteVen]

“He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts,
Lest they should see with their eyes,
Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn,
So that I should heal them.”

This seems to confirm my point.
If God "blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts,
Lest they should see", then how could they see?

And to what was Isaiah calling them? To Christianity? (nope)

 

[David in NJ]

This seems to confirm my point.
If God "blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts,
Lest they should see", then how could they see?

And to what was Isaiah calling them? To Christianity? (nope)

My definition of 'christianity' is: to follow and be like Christ

If you use this definition, can you SEE that this was/is God's Design from the Beginning?

 

[St. SteVen]

My definition of 'christianity' is: to follow and be like Christ

If you use this definition, can you SEE that this was/is God's Design from the Beginning?

That sort of works in retrospect.

One of my personal favorites.

Hebrews 11:8 NIV
By faith Abraham, when called to go to a place he would later receive as his inheritance,
obeyed and went, even though he did not know where he was going.

 

[David in NJ]

That sort of works in retrospect.

One of my personal favorites.

Hebrews 11:8 NIV
By faith Abraham, when called to go to a place he would later receive as his inheritance,
obeyed and went, even though he did not know where he was going.

In True Retrospect we need to understand God's Original Design = Revelation 13:8 and John ch1

Therefore, we are not imposing but rather SEEING and that SEEING begins in Genesis just as the Gospel of John SEES.

Thus the Second Promise of the Father = the Power to SEE, to be Known and to Know

 

[St. SteVen]

In True Retrospect we need to understand God's Original Design = Revelation 13:8 and John ch1

Therefore, we are not imposing but rather SEEING and that SEEING begins in Genesis just as the Gospel of John SEES.

Thus the Second Promise of the Father.

Was the plan to save all, or only some?

 

[David in NJ]

Was the plan to save all, or only some?

Your answer can be found in this passage Matthew 25:37-43

“Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? 38When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’

41“Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’