"I will draw all men unto me." - Excerpt from J. Preston Eby

[St. SteVen]

It is a strange theory that obsesses men
that the human will is greater in power than God,
and that, no matter what the will of God is for
His creatures, man is able finally to wreck it.

It is a curious hypothesis that states that although
the Holy Spirit seeks to woo all men to Christ,
since God loves all mankind and wills to save all men,
the omniscient God has boxed Himself into a corner.
Since the will of God is bound by the will of man,
and the Omnipotent Spirit can be resisted
by finite man if man so chooses.

Such faulty reasoning actually brings
into prominence ANOTHER OMNIPOTENCE which,
because it baffles the omnipotence and love of God,
is by far the greater. Man will not so God cannot!

What makes this notion so tragic is that
it DEIFIES MAN, elevating him to god-hood,
and aligns all who embrace it with the very sin
that caused the fall in the beginning!

The first sin committed by man had its
roots in the desire to be a FREE MORAL AGENT!
Free moral agency is not the doctrine of the Bible.
It is the doctrine of Romanism; and it is the
doctrine of humanism. It was Erasmus, the humanist,
who wrote on the freedom of man's will.
It has always been the humanists that have
sought to deify man and have boasted
of the freedom of their sovereign will.

More to read at source:

Man Is A Free Moral Agent: Just What Do You Mean Man is A Free Moral Agent; The Sinner Must Decide; The Shepherd Seeks The Sheep; The Will Of Man; I Will Draw All Men Unto Me; By One Man

A look at the free-will of man, particularly regarding God's salvation

www.godfire.net

 

[Mikey-for-sure]

It is a strange theory that obsesses men
that the human will is greater in power than God,
and that, no matter what the will of God is for
His creatures, man is able finally to wreck it.
It is a curious hypothesis that states that although
the Holy Spirit seeks to woo all men to Christ,
since God loves all mankind and wills to save all men,
the omniscient God has boxed Himself into a corner.
Since the will of God is bound by the will of man,
and the Omnipotent Spirit can be resisted
by finite man if man so chooses.

Such faulty reasoning actually brings
into prominence ANOTHER OMNIPOTENCE which,
because it baffles the omnipotence and love of God,
is by far the greater. Man will not so God cannot!

What makes this notion so tragic is that
it DEIFIES MAN, elevating him to god-hood,
and aligns all who embrace it with the very sin
that caused the fall in the beginning!

The first sin committed by man had its
roots in the desire to be a FREE MORAL AGENT!
Free moral agency is not the doctrine of the Bible.
It is the doctrine of Romanism; and it is the
doctrine of humanism. It was Erasmus, the humanist,
who wrote on the freedom of man's will.
It has always been the humanists that have
sought to deify man and have boasted
of the freedom of their sovereign will.

More to read at source:

Man Is A Free Moral Agent: Just What Do You Mean Man is A Free Moral Agent; The Sinner Must Decide; The Shepherd Seeks The Sheep; The Will Of Man; I Will Draw All Men Unto Me; By One Man

A look at the free-will of man, particularly regarding God's salvation

www.godfire.net

>>Hello Siri, do you love me?
<<"I've never fallen in love, but I have fallen off a desk."
>> Hmm, let's see what I can do?
fiddle, fiddle, edit edit.
>>Hello Siri, do you love me?
<<"You are my one true love"
>>Yes,... Fantastic... just 7 billion to go.

Hello Steven, can't see my Deity programming us for love. I believe He is more than Capable to have a real relationship.

 

[St. SteVen]

>>Hello Siri, do you love me?
<<"I've never fallen in love, but I have fallen off a desk."
>> Hmm, let's see what I can do?
fiddle, fiddle, edit edit.
>>Hello Siri, do you love me?
<<"You are my one true love"
>>Yes,... Fantastic... just 7 billion to go.

That's pretty silly. - LOL
Really like the line, "I've never fallen in love, but I have fallen off a desk."
Reminds me of the Marx Brothers comedy.

Hello Steven, can't see my Deity programming us for love. I believe He is more than Capable to have a real relationship.

Love is not a real relationship?
Oh wait, programmed love...
Where did you get that idea? (from the article, I suppose) ???
Not what I got from the reading.

 

[St. SteVen]

Hello Steven, can't see my Deity programming us for love.

Yes, hello.
Thanks for joining the topic discussion.
Links to three previous related topics below, also address the will of humankind.

I believe He is more than Capable to have a real relationship.

Of course. The very reason he draws us to himself.
Draws... not forces.

Three related topics from the same source.

The Will of Man - Excerpt from J. Preston Eby​

The Will of Man - Excerpt from J. PrestonEby At this point I wish to share some searching and enlightening words penned by a servant of the Lord more than sixty-five years ago. "Concerning the nature and the power of man's will, the greatest confusion prevails...

The Shepherd Seeks the Sheep - Excerpt from J. Preston Eby​

The Shepherd Seeks the Sheep - Excerpt from J. PrestonEby In Luke 15:4 we read, "What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, does not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness and go after that which is lost UNTIL HE FIND IT?" In this...

The Sinner Must Decide? - Excerpt from J. Preston Eby​

The Sinner Must Decide Excerpt from J. PrestonEby Strange as it may seem there are many today who insist that they believe in salvation by grace, yet they insist that man has the power to "make a decision for Christ." They argue that "God loves everyone, equally...

 

[Mikey-for-sure]

Yes, hello.
Thanks for joining the topic discussion.
Links to three previous related topics below, also address the will of humankind.

Of course. The very reason he draws us to himself.
Draws... not forces.

Three related topics from the same source.

The Will of Man - Excerpt from J. Preston Eby​

The Will of Man - Excerpt from J. PrestonEby At this point I wish to share some searching and enlightening words penned by a servant of the Lord more than sixty-five years ago. "Concerning the nature and the power of man's will, the greatest confusion prevails...

The Shepherd Seeks the Sheep - Excerpt from J. Preston Eby​

The Shepherd Seeks the Sheep - Excerpt from J. PrestonEby In Luke 15:4 we read, "What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, does not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness and go after that which is lost UNTIL HE FIND IT?" In this...

The Sinner Must Decide? - Excerpt from J. Preston Eby​

The Sinner Must Decide Excerpt from J. PrestonEby Strange as it may seem there are many today who insist that they believe in salvation by grace, yet they insist that man has the power to "make a decision for Christ." They argue that "God loves everyone, equally...

Hello Steven, read thru the first article and found a lot verses quoted without context all straining to the absence of free will. Is Eby a calvinist or some sort reformed?

 

[St. SteVen]

Hello Steven, read thru the first article and found a lot verses quoted without context all straining to the absence of free will. Is Eby a calvinist or some sort reformed?

J. Preston Eby is not a Calvinist, or Reformed, to my knowledge. The Christian Universalist label would fit.

Out of context?
How much context do you want to make a point?
I see this complaint all over the forums.
If someone isn't sure whether they agree, or not, they cry "Context!"

Personally, I dislike too much context in a post.
Someone throws that book at you and you are supposed
to figure out what point they are trying to make.

To be clear, I understand that context is important.
If I question something I will examine the context.
But I don't need it in the forum post.

 

[St. SteVen]

read thru the first article and found a lot verses quoted without context all straining to the absence of free will.

Here is a link to Eby's excerpt on free will.

The Will of Man - Excerpt from J. Preston Eby

The Will of Man - Excerpt from J. Preston Eby At this point I wish to share some searching and enlightening words penned by a servant of the Lord more than sixty-five years ago. "Concerning the nature and the power of man's will, the greatest confusion prevails...

www.christianityboard.com

 

[MatthewG]

I believe God draws people by the spirit; however they decide if they will have faith in the resurrected Son, or stay away from it.

7 ways does God commune to his creation.

The spirit and the bride say come! To anyone who desires to take freely from the everlssting waters.

 

[St. SteVen]

I believe God draws people by the spirit; however they decide if they will have faith in the resurrected Son, or stay away from it.

7 ways does God commune to his creation.

The spirit and the bride say come! To anyone who desires to take freely from the everlssting waters.

So you agree that the drawing of God comes before human decision?

 

[MatthewG]

Steven,
It would have to.

Hearing the word of God produces faith.

God also talks through nature.

If i remeber right; and then you decide…

Thats the way i see working today

Love to you,
Matthew

 

[MatthewG]

God cant force himself to work on a heart and mind. Someone has to be willingly. If it was automatic… it just wouldnt work. There would be no experience between the flesh and the spirit. It would just be spirit always consantly like a light switch turning on power but never shutting off and there would be no failure, no free choice, or let alone free thinking, nor any knowledge left to obtain.

The spirit indwells us however Jesus expressed in asking Yahava, His Father to help one by the spirit (Luke 11:13) while knowing our evil dispostion which the darkness within us.

Jesus learned and grew as he lived in the flesh so i see the same now today for people who do accept the call of the spirit and are born again, Steven.

Love to ya in Christ,
Matthew

 

[St. SteVen]

God also talks through nature.

How so?
Many use Romans chapter two to declare that we are without excuse.
Since the creator is evident in creation. However...

For those who believe that we are saved by receiving the gospel message of Christ,
where is that message to be found in nature?

 

[MatthewG]

How so?
Many use Romans chapter two to declare that we are without excuse.
Since the creator is evident in creation. However...

For those who believe that we are saved by receiving the gospel message of Christ,
where is that message to be found in nature?

Psalm 19:1 For the director of music. A psalm of David.


The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands.

Pslams 19:1 For the music director. A Psalm of David.

The heavens tell of the glory of God; And their expanse declares the work of His hands

 

[St. SteVen]

God cant force himself to work on a heart and mind.

You can't be serious. Sounds like dogma talking.

Remember Pharaoh before the Exodus?
He hardened his heart several times, BUT then God hardened his heart.

Even C. S. Lewis claims to have come "kicking and screaming" into the kingdom.

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
How so?
Many use Romans chapter two to declare that we are without excuse.
Since the creator is evident in creation. However...

For those who believe that we are saved by receiving the gospel message of Christ,
where is that message to be found in nature?

Psalm 19:1 For the director of music. A psalm of David.


The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands.

Pslams 19:1 For the music director. A Psalm of David.

The heavens tell of the glory of God; And their expanse declares the work of His hands

Good.
Where is the gospel in that message?
Is a person saved by acknowledging the creator God?
Is that enough?

 

[MatthewG]

St. SteVen said:
How so?
Many use Romans chapter two to declare that we are without excuse.
Since the creator is evident in creation. However...

For those who believe that we are saved by receiving the gospel message of Christ,
where is that message to be found in nature?

Good.
Where is the gospel in that message?
Is a person saved by acknowledging the creator God?
Is that enough?

If there is a change of heart, how could anyone of us judge?

However, if they are seeking more to know about this God who created everything, the option is to grab a bible.

You can't be serious. Sounds like dogma talking.

Remember Pharaoh before the Exodus?
He hardened his heart several times, BUT then God hardened his heart.

Even C. S. Lewis claims to have come "kicking and screaming" into the kingdom.

I wonder why God hardened his heart, Pharaoh did not want nothing to do with him -> therefore the causation of God caused the heart to become harder and harder.

How would you explain? I dont believe what most famous people believe, or have wrote about.

Love to you,
Matthew

 

[MatthewG]

Thinking of all the idols and gods that were in Egypt at the time, each plauge related to their gods...

God made a mockery out of Pharaoh's gods, and his heart hardened more and more.

You see how that works, Steven?

You may have a different opinion though,

Thank you for the question,
Matthew

 

[MatthewG]

Also wanted to share all ways God speaks to people will be my last comment Steven and ill get out of here.

Thompson chain bible is a great study bible.

Love to you, and God keep you up,
Matthew

 

[Mikey-for-sure]

J. Preston Eby is not a Calvinist, or Reformed, to my knowledge. The Christian Universalist label would fit.

Out of context?
How much context do you want to make a point?
I see this complaint all over the forums.
If someone isn't sure whether they agree, or not, they cry "Context!"

Personally, I dislike too much context in a post.
Someone throws that book at you and you are supposed
to figure out what point they are trying to make.

To be clear, I understand that context is important.
If I question something I will examine the context.
But I don't need it in the forum post.

I ask a beautiful lady out for coffee and she says "When pigs fly!" Does that mean our porcine friend has wings or simply I was eloquently but bluntly refused? All the verses Eby used are forms of literalisms while the true meaning can only be found with the literature.

 

[David in NJ]

How so?
Many use Romans chapter two to declare that we are without excuse.
Since the creator is evident in creation. However...

For those who believe that we are saved by receiving the gospel message of Christ,
where is that message to be found in nature?

It's there