I'd like to have a calm, rational conversation about End Times...anyone?

[bbyrd009]

that doesn't preclude you from answering the Q though huh
yes
so, that doesn't preclude you from answering either, but something is precluding you, yes?
Bc now i'm getting a justification instead of an answer, see

^

 

[Willie T]

I'm a little sad because I rank both Byrd and Naomi as among some of the better people here.

 

[bbyrd009]

I'm a little sad because I rank both Byrd and Naomi as among some of the better people here.

ha well ty, and imo Naomi is a fine example too

prolly i have no business contradicting knowledge that brings so many people joy, i guess :/

we all have diff definitions for things, nothing wrong with that per se.
if your def is sound, you will be convicted, and if it is not you won't i guess
what you do after that is up to you right
i'm in the same boat

 

[Willie T]

I don't always go by them (especially when the other guy pisses me off with insults) but, I have two signs above my computer.
One says, "Would I want to be friends with the guy writing this? "
and the other says, "Remember, it may be a friend you are arguing with."

 

[Helen]

I don't always go by them (especially when the other guy pisses me off with insults) but, I have two signs above my computer.
One says, "Would I want to be friends with the guy writing this? "
and the other says, "Remember, it may be a friend you are arguing with."

Good one .

 

[Naomi25]

When Jesus had spoken these words, he lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, “Father, the hour has come; glorify your Son that the Son may glorify you, since you have given him authority over all flesh, to give eternal life to all whom you have given him. And this is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent. I glorified you on earth, having accomplished the work that you gave me to do. And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.

“I have manifested your name to the people whom you gave me out of the world. Yours they were, and you gave them to me, and they have kept your word. Now they know that everything that you have given me is from you. For I have given them the words that you gave me, and they have received them and have come to know in truth that I came from you; and they have believed that you sent me. I am praying for them. I am not praying for the world but for those whom you have given me, for they are yours. All mine are yours, and yours are mine, and I am glorified in them. And I am no longer in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, keep them in your name, which you have given me, that they may be one, even as we are one. While I was with them, I kept them in your name, which you have given me. I have guarded them, and not one of them has been lost except the son of destruction, that the Scripture might be fulfilled. But now I am coming to you, and these things I speak in the world, that they may have my joy fulfilled in themselves. I have given them your word, and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. I do not ask that you take them out of the world, but that you keep them from the evil one. They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. Sanctify them in the truth; your word is truth. As you sent me into the world, so I have sent them into the world. And for their sake I consecrate myself, that they also may be sanctified in truth. - John 17:1-19


I'm sorry that people feel saddened by my conversation with byrd009...I'm not particularly happy with how's it gone either. There seems to be a fundamental difference in how we think. He seems intent on seeing me dodging questions...I can't for the life of me figure out what he's asking...I can't make out what he's saying half the time.

But I have to say: for all that everyone feels bad that a conversation gets edgy, or intense. For all that it's nice to put up reminders to get along with everyone...where is the contending for the faith?? My goodness....this site is over-run by people who haven't just taken a casual stroll from Orthodox belief, they've left it in their review mirror. Where are the moderators, who are supposed to stand up for the beliefs of this site? Where are the Christians who know...KNOW what the bible teaches and think it is more important to stand for what God thinks, than that fellow over there?
I don't like confrontation. And if it's on a matter that's not so important, I like to let it drop and stay as friendly as I can...it just doesn't matter that much. But seriously? The Trinity? The authority of Scripture? Some of the things these people are calling into question will erode the very foundation of Christianity, and I just don't care who is saddened over a conversation where I am doing my best to dig to the bottom of it and see the truth. And I think it's sad that others are not joining me.
But hey...as long as we're friendly...it won't matter if we allow God and the truth he's revealed to us to dissolve in our culture. Not like that could lead anywhere bad, huh?

 

[Willie T]

Have you noticed (everyone here) that the Bible speaks of defending "the faith", NOT the particular beliefs and absorbed doctrines we all seem to experience a little differently?

 

[bbyrd009]

I can't for the life of me figure out what he's asking...I can't make out what he's saying half the time.

but you also can't define Absolute Truth in agreement with reality, see, i'm pretty sure you still think your beliefs are AT?
the two are connected.

best of luck to you, Naomi, i wish you well ok

ps "could you rephrase the question" usually works fine

 

[bbyrd009]

Have you noticed (everyone here) that the Bible speaks of defending "the faith", NOT the particular beliefs and absorbed doctrines we all seem to experience a little differently?

ha well for most "Christians" faith has been turned into "beliefs" long time ago i guess, they even had it translated into their "Bibles" so it would be the "authority." Beliefs--defined as Absolute Truth of course--are now the Orthodox version of Faith i guess. Gee, i wonder why all our churches are melting

 

[bbyrd009]

Where are the Christians who know...KNOW what the bible teaches and think it is more important to stand for what God thinks, than that fellow over there?

most of them are either playing Oracle on other threads or condemning each other as you have condemned me and Muslims i guess, bc "beliefs." But to you questioning your beliefs = questioning your faith, right? That is why your beliefs are Absolute Truth, to you.

i could make other observations, about fruit, your fruit, your posterity, progeny, however you put it, but i guess they would not be appreciated either...so i'll just say that if you are joyful at the prospects for your posterity then you def should be ignoring me ok. Bc i am just a hypocrite, as you say.

 

[bbyrd009]

If we have hoped in Christ for this life only, we should be pitied more than anyone.

(a better 'demonstrative pronoun' would likely be "our" over "this")

 

[Naomi25]

Have you noticed (everyone here) that the Bible speaks of defending "the faith", NOT the particular beliefs and absorbed doctrines we all seem to experience a little differently?

Yes, but what is "the faith"? If you are talking about open-handed doctrines, then I absolutely agree with you. These are open to interpretation and should not lead to any kind of disharmony due to different opinions.
But on closed hand doctrines, the ones that make Christianity...well...what it is, then we must stand strong. What is Christianity without the cross? Or substitutionary atonement? What is it if God is not who we believe him to be? If we cannot trust scripture to be true and from him, then God could, in fact, be a space alien who is luring us to our ultimate demises. He could be a giant space octopus. Without knowing, we have nothing. The foundations crumble and everything else "the faith" is built upon becomes nil and void.
It's all well and good to note all the different 'beliefs and absorbed doctrines' that people have...but what are the core, foundational facts that make Christianity what it is? And if we cannot stand for those things, why are we even doing this? Why are you sure of your Salvation? It's all just pot luck unless your sure.

 

[bbyrd009]

We have (not only) made up our minds, i tell you, but also wish...

so now maybe it becomes apparent why determinism has so much appeal

But on closed hand doctrines, the ones that make Christianity...well...what it is, then we must stand strong.
who is "we?"
You imply a "they" here, see, that i guess i am now in?
How did you determine this division?
When you say "make Christianity what it is" i get the impression that you don't mean "a planet-wide pariah that makes one embarrassed to claim either it or US citizenship; the world's largest arms dealers," etc here. Do you. See, that is Christianity too
What is Christianity without the cross?
pick up your cross and follow Me
He removed the high places, shattered the sacred pillars, and cut down the Asherah poles. He broke into pieces the bronze snake that Moses made, for the Israelites burned incense to it up to that time. He called it Nehushtan.
No Son of Man may die for another's sins
Or substitutionary atonement?
Therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, I urge you to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God; this is your spiritual worship.
Count the cost
What is it if God is not who we believe him to be?
well, being as how God is not going to change that only leaves one thing that must change in that case, right.
Change your mind
Really the Q there is prolly more like "If God is ezackly like you believe Him to be, what the heck are you worshipping?"
If we cannot trust scripture to be true and from him
Scripture plainly tells us that God is an All-Consuming Fire, and we even get an example of three (conviction) "accepted" guys chilling in a furnace that is killing everyone else, right.
On top of all the other allusions i already mentioned?
Why not trust that Scripture?

Why do you think we are called to "put on armor?" To go to a party in heaven?

You are going to a furnace when you die, and armor might be better translated firesuit

but of course ol' Tassel Toes never quite put it like that, huh, even fifty years ago
bc he has a bidness to run right; he earns a living preaching knowledge that brings joy

 

[bbyrd009]

but i feel i should stress again that no one will be judged for their beliefs about past or future matters, ok;
what you believe right now is fine