If Adam and Eve had not eaten from the tree of knowledge, how could they know it was wrong to do so

[Ronald Nolette]

In the Bible, in the Garden of Eden, if the fruit of the Tree-of-Knowledge contains the knowledge of Good/Evil and Right/Wrong, then how could Adam and Eve have known it was “wrong” to disobey God and eat the fruit before they did? They couldn’t have known what right and wrong meant. Also if God had explained to Adam and Eve what right and wrong was before they ate of the fruit so that they would understand why it was wrong to eat the apple, then wouldn’t He have essentially given them the Knowledge that he had just forbidden them to have? Remember; THIS is the Original Sin, the basis for the need for salvation in all of Christianity.

Moreover, why did God put the Tree-of-Knowledge in the Garden of Eden in the first place? Especially if He knew what was going to happen? Isn’t he supposed to know everything that will ever happen? It would have been so easy just to place it on the other side of the world; or on the Moon for that matter.

So why did God not know that this fruit would be eaten, did God err?

Why?

Actually "knowing good from evil" is a poor translation of what was said by God. It is more accurate to say that if they ate of teh Apple, they would then think they could decide for themseves what is good and evil instead of trusting God. Same thing Satan does.

 

[WaterSong]

In the Bible, in the Garden of Eden, if the fruit of the Tree-of-Knowledge contains the knowledge of Good/Evil and Right/Wrong, then how could Adam and Eve have known it was “wrong” to disobey God and eat the fruit before they did? They couldn’t have known what right and wrong meant. Also if God had explained to Adam and Eve what right and wrong was before they ate of the fruit so that they would understand why it was wrong to eat the apple, then wouldn’t He have essentially given them the Knowledge that he had just forbidden them to have? Remember; THIS is the Original Sin, the basis for the need for salvation in all of Christianity.

Moreover, why did God put the Tree-of-Knowledge in the Garden of Eden in the first place? Especially if He knew what was going to happen? Isn’t he supposed to know everything that will ever happen? It would have been so easy just to place it on the other side of the world; or on the Moon for that matter.

So why did God not know that this fruit would be eaten, did God err?

Why?

Great question and one that has likely vexed the thinking Christian for centuries.
When they didn't know right from wrong, by God's design, how could they know it was right or wrong to obey or disobey God?

Another question to go with this, was the garden ever called paradise in scripture? If so, how would it qualify to be paradise with a forbidden tree planted in its center?
Not unlike the description of heaven as paradise. If it was paradise how could one of God's most beloved and intelligent angels fall victim to his own ego-centrism, narcissism, and lead a war against God there?

 

[Hidden In Him]

Great question and one that has likely vexed the thinking Christian for centuries.
When they didn't know right from wrong, by God's design, how could they know it was right or wrong to obey or disobey God?

Another question to go with this, was the garden ever called paradise in scripture?

Greetings, Watersong. I've already responded to your first question elsewhere, but let me start by addressing this one. Do you regard the LXX as scripture? The reason I ask is because the Septuagint uses the Greek Παράδεισος for the garden of Eden in Genesis (called the "garden of God") in Isaiah 51:3 and Ezekiel 28:13.

The same word is used by Paul of Heaven in 2 Corinthians 12:4, where he states he was caught up εἰς τὸν παράδεισον (into Paradise), which he also describes as "third heaven" (v.2), and heard things that he was not able to describe. So if the same term is being used of both Heaven and the garden of Eden, they have to have born the same characteristics, yes?

If so, how would it qualify to be paradise with a forbidden tree planted in its center?

Ah! But He also put the Tree of Life in the garden, which allowed them to continue in immortality. This is why they had to be expelled, and an angel with a sword guard the Tree so they could no longer eat from it. The garden was Paradise because no death, dying or pain existed there.

Not unlike the description of heaven as paradise. If it was paradise how could one of God's most beloved and intelligent angels fall victim to his own ego-centrism, narcissism, and lead a war against God there?

Ummm.. you are saying Heaven is not technically Paradise either? Lucifer fell because like all angels He possessed free will, and it was precisely because there was no death nor pain nor judgment upon any of God's creations at that time that Lucifer made the mistake of thinking he could get away with rebelling against God. Paradise in Heaven would have ceased to be such if he had remained there, so he was expelled. Likewise, man was expelled from the garden when he sinned as well. But this doesn't mean that Paradise ceased to exist.

God bless, and thanks for making the conversation more interesting.

 

[WaterSong]

Greetings, Watersong. I've already responded to your first question elsewhere, but let me start by addressing this one. Do you regard the LXX as scripture? The reason I ask is because the Septuagint uses the Greek Παράδεισος for the garden of Eden in Genesis (called the "garden of God") in Isaiah 51:3 and Ezekiel 28:13.

The same word is used by Paul of Heaven in 2 Corinthians 12:4, where he states he was caught up εἰς τὸν παράδεισον (into Paradise), which he also describes as "third heaven" (v.2), and heard things that he was not able to describe. So if the same term is being used of both Heaven and the garden of Eden, they have to have born the same characteristics, yes?


Ah! But He also put the Tree of Life in the garden, which allowed them to continue in immortality. This is why they had to be expelled, and an angel with a sword guard the Tree so they could no longer eat from it. The garden was Paradise because no death, dying or pain existed there.


Ummm.. you are saying Heaven is not technically Paradise either? Lucifer fell because like all angels He possessed free will, and it was precisely because there was no death nor pain nor judgment upon any of God's creations at that time that Lucifer made the mistake of thinking he could get away with rebelling against God. Paradise in Heaven would have ceased to be such if he had remained there, so he was expelled. Likewise, man was expelled from the garden when he sinned as well. But this doesn't mean that Paradise ceased to exist.

God bless, and thanks for making the conversation more interesting.

Where is the scripture that tells us angels,also known as the sons of God, have free will?
Psalm 103
Bless the Lord, O you his angels, you mighty ones who do his word, obeying the voice of his word!
Colossians 1:16
For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him.

Per the question about heaven, the first through third, it strikes as odd that paradise would be abrogated by a group of angels who possessed the ability to sin.
And also, while Satan was cast out of heaven we know, just in the book of Job, that did not mean Satan cannot return to heaven and confer with God from time to time.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

In the Bible, in the Garden of Eden, if the fruit of the Tree-of-Knowledge contains the knowledge of Good/Evil and Right/Wrong, then how could Adam and Eve have known it was “wrong” to disobey God and eat the fruit before they did? They couldn’t have known what right and wrong meant. Also if God had explained to Adam and Eve what right and wrong was before they ate of the fruit so that they would understand why it was wrong to eat the apple, then wouldn’t He have essentially given them the Knowledge that he had just forbidden them to have? Remember; THIS is the Original Sin, the basis for the need for salvation in all of Christianity.

Moreover, why did God put the Tree-of-Knowledge in the Garden of Eden in the first place? Especially if He knew what was going to happen? Isn’t he supposed to know everything that will ever happen? It would have been so easy just to place it on the other side of the world; or on the Moon for that matter.

So why did God not know that this fruit would be eaten, did God err?

Why?

Didn't someone just ask these questions?

Of course, God would make Adam and Eve able to obey Him and give them the understanding to do so. A very young child can understand obedience, so why not Adam and Eve?

 

[Hidden In Him]

And also, while Satan was cast out of heaven we know, just in the book of Job, that did not mean Satan cannot return to heaven and confer with God from time to time.

Yes, but he's not contaminating Heaven, cuz he ain't there long, LoL.

Where is the scripture that tells us angels,also known as the sons of God, have free will?
Psalm 103
Bless the Lord, O you his angels, you mighty ones who do his word, obeying the voice of his word!
Colossians 1:16
For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him.

Your first verse is not an inference that all angels obey His voice; only that those who faithfully serve Him do.

Your second is again a reference to the kingdom of God, which technically is distinct from the kingdom of Satan, just as two kingdoms on earth would be.

2 Peter 2:4 states that God did not spare the angels that sinned. If they were created evil and to be evil, what was there to spare them from?

 

[WaterSong]

Yes, but he's not contaminating Heaven, cuz he ain't there long, LoL.

But he's allowed to enter there. He and other of the sons of God.

Your first verse is not an inference that all angels obey His voice; only that those who faithfully serve Him do.

Satan obeyed his voice after the fall. When he wanted to tempt Job to test his faith God gave him permission with one stipulation. Don't kill him. And Satan obeyed.

Your second is again a reference to the kingdom of God, which technically is distinct from the kingdom of Satan, just as two kingdoms on earth would be.

The scripture states all things were created, the visible and invisible, remembering angles are spirits, through God and for God.
When God is the creator there is no thing that exists that is not created of and through the creator.

2 Peter 2:4 states that God did not spare the angels that sinned. If they were created evil and to be evil, what was there to spare them from?

If they were created to be evil, it stands to reason the creator created them to be evil.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Satan obeyed his voice after the fall. When he wanted to tempt Job to test his faith God gave him permission with one stipulation. Don't kill him. And Satan obeyed.

Well he obeys what he HAS to, yes. That's just called forced compliance, or we wring your little Beelzebub neck. He can't get through any angelic hedge of protection unless God lets those hedges down (Job 1:10).

If they were created to be evil, it stands to reason the creator created them to be evil.

Hey, no fair. That's MY point. They were not created evil, which is why it stands to reason that their becoming evil was not His intent or doing.

 

[101G]

well Faithsong, I guess you didn't grasp what God was saying in Jeremiah 18?

Jeremiah 18:2 "Arise, and go down to the potter's house, and there I will cause thee to hear my words." eremiah 18:3 "Then I went down to the potter's house, and, behold, he wrought a work on the wheels." Jeremiah 18:4 "And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it." Jeremiah 18:5 "Then the word of the LORD came to me, saying,"Jeremiah 18:6 "O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the LORD. Behold, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are ye in mine hand, O house of Israel."

see Adam and Eve was made Good for everthing was made Good, for what he God have in store, because he 's not through "CREATING", he will make "GLOURIOUS". 1 Corinthians 2:9 "But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him."

just as Joe Biden said, "build back BETTER". what God made in the beginning is "GOOD", but what he's going to do in the end... "BETTER"..

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[Brakelite]

Where is the scripture that tells us angels,also known as the sons of God, have free will?

You have to decide if the angels in heaven worship God from love or preset programming. If it's preset programming then they have no free will and their worship is meaningless and makes it God to be nothing but a narcissistic egotistical puppet master.
But if it's love, then the angels choose to worship and obey out of love. Unless of course the angels were Calvinists.

 

[Nancy]

You have to decide if the angels in heaven worship God from love or preset programming. If it's preset programming then they have no free will and their worship is meaningless and makes it God to be nothing but a narcissistic egotistical puppet master.
But if it's love, then the angels choose to worship and obey out of love. Unless of course the angels were Calvinists.

 

[April_Rose]

They knew not to do it because God told them not to do it.

That's what I figured, but that begs the question of why God told them not to, and why He planted them there in the first place? Especially if He knew (which He did) that they would disobey Him?

It's like telling your kids not to touch a hot stove ,but they do it anyway .I also feel (IMO)had he just said sorry he would have been good but ,naw what he he do, blame the woman.

Yeah, but I still think that they wouldn't been completely off the hook though even then.

 

[Truman]

I've thought this to the point where my brain isn't able to go any further.
At this point I decided to trust God and believe what He says.
I know He loves me and takes care of me, and for me, that is enough.

 

[Truman]

 

[Nancy]

I've thought this to the point where my brain isn't able to go any further.
At this point I decided to trust God and believe what He says.
I know He loves me and takes care of me, and for me, that is enough.

I so love that verse...

 

[Truman]

"As I stood under the weight of God's glory, something shot towards me from my left. As it made contact with me, I had the most pleasurable experience I've ever had. It was the total fulfillment of every desire I'd ever had and some I didn't even know there were."
This was part of my experience of my Father's love for me at the Cambridge Vineyard VCF, 1994. I've since related this to:

1 Corinthians 9,10 Berean Study Bible

 

[n2thelight]

So God made imperfect creations, but the question is not about the creation but about why God did not know that his creations were ignorant, so why dod God not include intelligence not needed to be learned

It's not about intelligence ,but rather disobedience . Your thinking is like we should all be gods

 

[liafailrock]

In the Bible, in the Garden of Eden, if the fruit of the Tree-of-Knowledge contains the knowledge of Good/Evil and Right/Wrong, then how could Adam and Eve have known it was “wrong” to disobey God and eat the fruit before they did? They couldn’t have known what right and wrong meant. Also if God had explained to Adam and Eve what right and wrong was before they ate of the fruit so that they would understand why it was wrong to eat the apple, then wouldn’t He have essentially given them the Knowledge that he had just forbidden them to have? Remember; THIS is the Original Sin, the basis for the need for salvation in all of Christianity.

Moreover, why did God put the Tree-of-Knowledge in the Garden of Eden in the first place? Especially if He knew what was going to happen? Isn’t he supposed to know everything that will ever happen? It would have been so easy just to place it on the other side of the world; or on the Moon for that matter.

So why did God not know that this fruit would be eaten, did God err?

Why?

An overlooked point is that God placed the tree of life there, too in which Adam and Eve were free to eat. So, had they eaten from neither, they would die by scriptural implication. If they ate of the Tree of Life, they'd live being born of God's Spirit. Eat the tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil is akin to being your own god, our own judge to judge the Law. Thus they would surely die -- no question about that. Had they obeyed, me thinks they would have gotten to the tree of Life eventually so that is also implied. The penalty of disobedience was death, so they knew it. It took Satan to deceive Eve into not believing that. And Adam knew better but went along with it sustaining the greater of the punishment of the two. So choice was given for man to become a son of God by His Spirit, but flesh being what it is gave a hard lesson we are not in and of ourselves capable. A lot of suffering over this, but God is going to make it all right again. BTW it was not an apple for sure. I think you got that mixed up with the legend of Sir Isaac Newton, my avatar guy. LOL

 

[WaterSong]

You have to decide if the angels in heaven worship God from love or preset programming. If it's preset programming then they have no free will and their worship is meaningless and makes it God to be nothing but a narcissistic egotistical puppet master.
But if it's love, then the angels choose to worship and obey out of love. Unless of course the angels were Calvinists.

LOL! Those would be the fallen angels.

 

[WaterSong]

Well he obeys what he HAS to, yes. That's just called forced compliance, or we wring your little Beelzebub neck. He can't get through any angelic hedge of protection unless God lets those hedges down (Job 1:10).


Hey, no fair. That's MY point. They were not created evil, which is why it stands to reason that their becoming evil was not His intent or doing.

I think it all hinges on Sovereignty.
God created all the angels to serve him. When he did not give Adam and Eve the knowledge to exercise their free will choice in the beginning, why would he give spirits he created to serve him and do his will, free will.
What servant is there that may choose not to serve?

God planted only one tree in the garden that was forbidden to eat of.
Why?
Consider, if the serpent, who is never actually identified as Satan in the book of Genesis, had not been allowed to enter the garden, how would humans have come to know God and need him?
Easy! If there was no forbidden fruit the human race would have populated the earth by Omniscient God's will and would have talked with him and walked with him forever. Because eventually Adam and Eve would have made their way to the Tree of Life and lived eternally. Never knowing sin. Or what it meant to need saving from it.
But all that did transpire, the knowledge of sin and the need to be saved from it, because first and foremost in any discussion or study of Apologetics it must be agreed upon that God is Sovereign.
If God is Sovereign no thing can happen without his knowledge, permission, or doing.
Otherwise, the serpent would have been able to overcome God's plans for humanity. Being God tells us in the OT, all things are predestined according to his will and for his own glory.