Wormwood
Chaps
Veteran,veteran said:You'll have eat crow with that kind of statement. John Darby's Dispensationalism also agreed in God's Word about His promises to the seed of Israel that their nation would be restored in final under Christ Jesus, even to include the original inheritances of the land to the 12 tribes. British Bible scholars of Darby's era like E.W. Bullinger also agreed with God's Word on that.
Sounds like you might be listening to some of the Hyper-Dispensationalists of later 20th century times.
I said that no Christian prior to the 1800s every believed that. Then I clarified (because of your objection that I couldnt possibly know what every Christian in history believed) to say that we have no recorded teaching of anyone ever believing that. Please take my words in context of our discussion...I cant rewrite previous posts in every new comment. So again, for 1800 years we have no recorded teaching of such an idea. My point was simply that you claimed I was refusing to see what Scripture clearly taught. My point was...why, if its so clear...has no one that we know of ever believed it until Darby? Does that make sense?
Michael,Michael V Pardo said:Hello Bitterness, perhaps you should change your screen name to "arrogance."
Prior to the invention of the printing press, the vast majority of the population was illiterate. During most of the church's history, anyone who had anything to say that disagreed with what came out of Rome was labeled as a heretic and at risk of excommunication, torture or execution. Do you possess every written document from every born again believer that ever lived? Highly unlikely. Do you possess copies of the documents that have been destroyed or hidden away, because they were deemed by "church authorities" as illegitimate or uninspired or heretical? Highly unlikely. Nothing that I've said is the least bit dispensationalist, but apparently you aren't able to understand what I'm saying. I've presented what God has said in His word, so you're really not arguing with me, but with Him. Show me your authority, I've already shown you mine; the Word of God. Your unbelief won't affect His will in the slightest, nor alter His plan. God will demonstrate Himself entirely just in the judgment by fulfilling His word. No man will be able to justify himself in his unbelief by claiming that God's word wasn't kept to those whom He gave it to. If you don't understand these things, perhaps you don't know God at all. If that's the case, then I urge you to confess your nature of sin to Him and your inability to save yourself, then throw yourself upon His mercy by believing in His Son, Jesus Christ. He is the faithful witness to everything we say and do, including those things which are being posted here.
I'm not being arrogant. I'm stating a historical fact. I find your response very lacking in credibility for a number of reasons.
1) "Rome" was not a "Christian" empire until almost 400AD. Christianity wasn't embraced by the Roman empire until 313's Edict of Milan. So we have about 400 years of Christian history with tons on literature from the Church Fathers and various schools...such as Alexandria...and there is no record of anyone viewing the Millennium this way. ]
2) The idea that people did not want to share their ideas about Israel for fear of being burnt at the stake is about as historically misleading as you can get. There were tons of controversy, debates, and literature written on about every issue under the sun in Christianity. The church spent considerable time hashing out doctrinal matters regarding the person of Christ, Easter, the Holy Spirit, free will, baptism, the Second Coming and about every other topic you can mention. It was not until the middle ages that heretics were burnt (and even this was extremely rare). Most heretics like Arius and Pelagius were simply excommunicated. The millennium was not an issue that was deemed something worth excommunicating someone from anything I have ever read.
3) Maybe you are confused about the meaning of dispensationalism. The idea is that God has worked in various dispensations throughout the ages. According to the dispensationalists, we are currently in the "church age" and the millennium is the time when things will transition from focusing on the church to national Israel. I don't know how else I can interpret your previous comments as you have continually remarked that God's promises throughout the OT were directed to national Israel and not the church.
4) Everything above in italics I will ignore. Claiming I am on God's side and therefore you are arguing against God is meaningless. I could make the same comment to you and it would be just as pointless. If you are right, give me reasons, not declarations. David Koresh made similar comments and it didn't make him any less wrong.