If perfect, why did Adam sin?

[RR144]

but why would God not instill perfect knowledge into them since He made them in His image?

Because knowledge has to be learned and learning comes from experience. DO you think when the Logos or the angels were created they had perfect knowledge? If that were the case Satan would never had sinned and since Even was deceived, wouldn't we say the fallen angels whop followed Satan were too deceived?

It opens the way to blame God in reality, most of the time if you had two 5 yr olds with a table of candy but only one candy bar, and told them not to eat it, one would and blame the other. The kids fault or the parent?

Apples and oranges, but I'll play this game. You can't compare Adam to 2 five year olds. Were the five year old being put to the test? Were there consequences? What of ine took the candy bar and split it with the other?

God created the spirit realm with infinite intelligence, why would He do lesser when He created man in His image? Time will tell, but if He made them inferior, who is to blame?

If that were the case why did Satan and one third of the angels sin against God? If they had more knowledge did Adam and Eve?

 

[Robert Gwin]

Because knowledge has to be learned and learning comes from experience. DO you think when the Logos or the angels were created they had perfect knowledge? If that were the case Satan would never had sinned and since Even was deceived, wouldn't we say the fallen angels whop followed Satan were too deceived?

Apples and oranges, but I'll play this game. You can't compare Adam to 2 five year olds. Were the five year old being put to the test? Were there consequences? What of ine took the candy bar and split it with the other?


If that were the case why did Satan and one third of the angels sin against God? If they had more knowledge did Adam and Eve?

DO you think when the Logos or the angels were created they had perfect knowledge?

Good point RR, I understand your point and agree. But I still believe it would be against their natural inclination to sin, Eve was deceived, but she also knew it was wrong as she told satan the consequences before she partook of the fruit.

If that were the case Satan would never had sinned and since Even was deceived, wouldn't we say the fallen angels whop followed Satan were too deceived?

I believe satan knew exactly what he was doing, and had been around for eons and deliberately challenged Jehovah's sovereignty. The fallen angels too chose their own path.

 

[St. Joseph]

why did Adam sin?​

“…Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.” (1 Timothy 2:14)

Adam was not decieved sure enough. He knew exactly what he was doing. He was the one God told specifically not to eat of that tree. He was not deceived. We willfully sinned with eyes wide open.

 

[St. Joseph]

Because knowledge has to be learned and learning comes from experience. DO you think when the Logos or the angels were created they had perfect knowledge? If that were the case Satan would never had sinned and since Even was deceived, wouldn't we say the fallen angels whop followed Satan were too deceived?

Apples and oranges, but I'll play this game. You can't compare Adam to 2 five year olds. Were the five year old being put to the test? Were there consequences? What of ine took the candy bar and split it with the other?


If that were the case why did Satan and one third of the angels sin against God? If they had more knowledge did Adam and Eve?

Where does scripture say Satan was an angel? Isaiah and others dont. Scriptures say nothing about Satan being Lucifer. Thats men jumping to conclusions.

 

[Stumpmaster]

Where does scripture say Satan was an angel? Isaiah and others dont. Scriptures say nothing about Satan being Lucifer. Thats men jumping to conclusions.

2Co 11:14 And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light.
Isa 14:12-14 "How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How you are cut down to the ground, You who weakened the nations! (13) For you have said in your heart: 'I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will also sit on the mount of the congregation On the farthest sides of the north; (14) I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the Most High.'
Eze 28:12-15 "Son of man, take up a lamentation for the king of Tyre, and say to him, 'Thus says the Lord GOD: "You were the seal of perfection, Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. (13) You were in Eden, the garden of God; Every precious stone was your covering: The sardius, topaz, and diamond, Beryl, onyx, and jasper, Sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold. The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes Was prepared for you on the day you were created. (14) "You were the anointed cherub who covers; I established you; You were on the holy mountain of God; You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones. (15) You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created, Till iniquity was found in you.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

He knew exactly what he was doing.

No he didn’t. Not until his were opened!

willfully sinned with eyes wide open.

Adam didn’t willfully sin!

That’s utter nonsense and unbiblical!

“…but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.” (1 Timothy 2:14)

 

[St. Joseph]

No he didn’t. Not until his were opened!



Adam didn’t willfully sin!

That’s utter nonsense and unbiblical!

“…but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.” (1 Timothy 2:14)

Sorry. But its thevsamevas we are today. You're saying he didnt know it was wrong after God telling him. That makes no sense.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

You're saying he didnt know it was wrong after God telling him. That makes no sense.

He didn’t know it came from that tree.

Eve didn’t tell him.

This is obvious based on what the Apostle Paul wrote:

“And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.” (1 Timothy 2:14)

 

[St. Joseph]

2Co 11:14 And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light.
Isa 14:12-14 "How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How you are cut down to the ground, You who weakened the nations! (13) For you have said in your heart: 'I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will also sit on the mount of the congregation On the farthest sides of the north; (14) I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the Most High.'
Eze 28:12-15 "Son of man, take up a lamentation for the king of Tyre, and say to him, 'Thus says the Lord GOD: "You were the seal of perfection, Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. (13) You were in Eden, the garden of God; Every precious stone was your covering: The sardius, topaz, and diamond, Beryl, onyx, and jasper, Sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold. The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes Was prepared for you on the day you were created. (14) "You were the anointed cherub who covers; I established you; You were on the holy mountain of God; You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones. (15) You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created, Till iniquity was found in you.

There are a lot of tv preachers as angels of light. Whats your point?

 

[St. Joseph]

He didn’t know it came from that tree.

Eve didn’t tell him.

This is obvious based on what the Apostle Paul wrote:

“And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.” (1 Timothy 2:14)

if he didnt know because Eve didnt tell him,the he wouldnt had to die. It would have been in ignorance. And how do we know Eve didnt tell him. Think it through.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

if he didnt know because Eve didnt tell him,the he wouldnt had to die. It would have been in ignorance.

Regardless, the fruit was eaten.

The circumstance matters not.

And how do we know Eve didnt tell him.

“And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.” (1 Timothy 2:14)

Think it through.

Why don’t you think it through?

 

[Stumpmaster]

Whats your point?

Sharp.

See this also:
Rev 12:7-9 And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, (8) but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer. (9) So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

 

[St. Joseph]

Regardless, the fruit was eaten.

The circumstance matters not.



“And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.” (1 Timothy 2:14)



Why don’t you think it through?

The circumstance is all that matters. This is God dealing with mankind. If there is no sin there is no judgement. Thats all the scriptures speak of is Adam falling. Thats why Christ had to die. Yes Adam knew full well what he was doing.

 

[St. Joseph]

Sharp.

See this also:
Rev 12:7-9 And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, (8) but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer. (9) So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

I was speaking on the subject as Lucifer beening Satan. Yes Satan was in heaven and hasnt been thrown out yet even as we speak.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Yes Adam knew full well what he was doing.

“…Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.” (1 Timothy 2:14)

Adam wasn’t in the transgression.

Unless you want to contradict what the Apostle Paul wrote.

 

[St. Joseph]

“…Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.” (1 Timothy 2:14)

Adam wasn’t in the transgression.

Unless you want to contradict what the Apostle Paul wrote.

Paul just said he wasnt decieved. I said thats true,he wasnt. Where did i contradict Paul?

 

[Stumpmaster]

Adam didn’t willfully sin!

“…Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.” (1 Timothy 2:14)

Adam wasn’t in the transgression.

Unless you want to contradict what the Apostle Paul wrote.

The command was to Adam so the consequences are to him also.

Gen 2:15-17 Then the LORD God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to tend and keep it. (16) And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, "Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; (17) but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die."


Rom 5:12-19 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned— (13) (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. (14) Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. (15) But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man's offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many. (16) And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned. For the judgment which came from one offense resulted in condemnation, but the free gift which came from many offenses resulted in justification. (17) For if by the one man's offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.) (18) Therefore, as through one man's offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man's righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life. (19) For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man's obedience many will be made righteous.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

From the Scriptural narrative of the creation of man, it is evident that God, the Creator, designed to have an intelligent creature made in His own likeness, with an individual will capable of deciding for good or evil. Man has the power of willing to do as he, himself desires. Had he been created otherwise he would not have been in the likeness of God, but a mere machine controlled and directed by the Divine will. We may reasonably suppose that Adam chose to disobey the Lord because of his love for Eve. She had been deceived by the Adversary, Satan, and had partaken of the forbidden fruit, the penalty for which was death. Adam, realizing that she must die, deliberately chose to share her fate, as life without her would not be worth living. We are distinctly told that Adam was not deceived (1 Tim. 2:14) and we could conceive of no other motive on the part of a perfect man in disobeying the Divine mandate, than that of love for his bride.

The first man Adam became a living soul (1 Cor. 15:45; Gen. 2:7), the last Adam (the Lord from heaven, 1 Cor. 15:47) at His resurrection became a life giving spirit also.

Until sin was found in him….to have been planted in them. A seed of doubt planted? Did Adam lack anything? Did Adam lack knowing God is good? Did he lack trust in that God is good and just and ever faithful and perfect; God being perfect in that He desires to reveal mercy? Did God desire to have mercy on Adam and Eve? When we talk about unbelievers; we refer to the passages of men who hate the light and won’t come to the light that their deeds be made known. Mercy a work of God. Instead they (unbelievers) hide themselves in the darkness and in secret, choosing the darkness over the Light of God. Which did Adam and Eve choose?

Adam and Eve …hid themselves from sight of God believing instead the voice that planted a seed of doubt; God is not just nor trustworthy. Blaming and a cursing God instead “the woman YOU gave unto me”. Hiding ourselves from the Light. In the Revelation of Jesus Christ that continues “they curse God” shaking their fist at Him, and will not repent”. Repeated on and on; hide yourself from the Light and do not go to the Light for then your secrets will be made manifest to God. Blame Him instead for all that is come upon you instead of He desires to have Mercy on your weakness in return demonstrating His perfection made perfect in weakness.

Adam was turned weak by doubt.
God desires to turn that weakness into His perfection (strength) revealed through their weakness. That the power be of God and not of men.

 

[RR144]

Where does scripture say Satan was an angel? Isaiah and others dont. Scriptures say nothing about Satan being Lucifer. Thats men jumping to conclusions.

And where does Satan come from? He created himself? Or are you a Christadelphian, who believed that Satan is sin personified?

 

[St. Joseph]

And where does Satan come from? He created himself? Or are you a Christadelphian, who believed that Satan is sin personified?

What i was poorly getting at,is that i dont believe Satan and Lucifer are the same person. Whether he is an actual angel,i dont know.