Does Scripture teach that Paul wrote Hebrews ? NO
So again the question is :-
Where does Paul (Rom-Philemon) teach that a Eph 1:13, Eph 4:30 sealed believer can become UNsealed ?
If there are no verses then fess up & say so :)
If sealed with the HS, how does one become UNsealed ?
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So again the question is :-
Where does Paul (Rom-Philemon) teach that a Eph 1:13, Eph 4:30 sealed believer can become UNsealed ?
If there are no verses then fess up & say so :)
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
I already said there are some questions about Hebrews.
Again you do not have much to offer.
How many ways sin can send you to hell is well explained they just did not use the phrase unsealed.
Verses is the request, not opinions.
I'll change the request :-
Are you aware of any verses where Paul (Rom-Philemon) teaches that a Eph 1:13, Eph 4:30 sealed believer can become UNsealed ?
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Before we go on I want to make something clear.
Although I know that a Christian can sin their way to Hell. And I am sure there not going to be a bunch of evil in Heaven. How absurd an idea. You are at the heavenly banquet table and you look over and a guy is pouring ketchup on some's arm because he is cannibal.
But people to think that I believe salvation is easily lost. Be good and do good the best you can and ask forgiveness for the rest. It is Yeshua that will judge and He will be judging Christians.
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. 2nd Corinthians 5:10
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
I have definitely given more verse on topic than you can offer.
And I have already answered this question.
Ya want them again?
Matthew 7:21-23 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many [a]miracles?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.”
2nd Corinthians 5:10: For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad..
Matthew 18:9 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you. It is better for you to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire.
Philippians 2:12 So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling;
1st Corinthians 6:9-10 “Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor those habitually drunk, nor verbal abusers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God”
Galatians 5:19-21 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: sexual immorality, impurity, indecent behavior, idolatry, witchcraft, hostilities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions, envy, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Ephesians 5:3-5 But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God’s holy people. Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving. For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person—such a person is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
John 5:28-29 Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.
John is not Paul
Matt is not Paul
You have NOT provided verses FROM Paul (Rom-Philemon) that teach a Eph 1:13, Eph 4:30 sealed believer can become UNsealed.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
I gave you quite a few scriptures from Paul actually most of them were from Paul or Yeshua.
And I have already responded to this post. Paul explained how many ways you can sin your way out of going to Heaven. Stop repeating yourself.
Ziggy
Well-Known Member
That would be asking, could or would God remove his Holy Spirit from you if you turned your back on him.
Eph 4:30
And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
Gen 6:6
And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
Psa 78:40
How oft did they provoke him in the wilderness, and grieve him in the desert!
Isa 63:10
But they rebelled, and vexed his holy Spirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them.
Mar 3:5
And when he had looked round about on them with anger, being grieved for the hardness of their hearts, he saith unto the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it out: and his hand was restored whole as the other.
Act 7:51
Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.
1Th 5:19
Quench not the Spirit.
All I can say is, once you been sealed your better off to stay on God's good side. Because I don't think having him as your enemy is a good thing.
Hugs
Wrangler
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Why not ask where does Christ through Paul teach this on a Tuesday on a full moon when the tide is out? Why be so open to consider only what Paul wrote? Jesus himself has much to say on the topic. Is Paul your lord and savior that you give his words more weight than Christ?
With Paul's writing, his audience are those who are holding firm, not to those seeds that grow quickly but die. Jesus told us to abide in him and he will abide in us. He wouldn't say this if it were impossible for us to NOT abide in him.
and the verses from Paul that teach a Eph 1:13, Eph 4:30 sealed believer can become UNsealed are ?
...."Why not ask where does Christ through Paul teach this on a Tuesday on a full moon when the tide is out?
Something else that Paul doesn't teach.
..
What were those verses again where Paul teaches a Eph4:30 sealed believer can become UNsealed ?
No hurry, take your time :)
Wrangler
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Not an answer to my questionS.
Plus this question has already been answered.
@PeterAndroz, you're too obtuse for me. Make a Blessed Day.
You asked for Scripture, I gave you Scripture.
More Scripture, King Salomon at the end of his life turned to idols and the Lord God turned against him. King Salomon --> the author of 5 OT books !
People lose the faith, it's a fact.
Take Judas, he saw the miracles of Jesus, even performed himself when Jesus gave him the authority. Then he lost his mind.
- Matthew 24:13 (ESV): "But the one who endures to the end will be saved."
- Matthew 10:22 (ESV): "And you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved."
Gray_Joy
Active Member
There is nothing in those Epistles that says we shall be unsealed. Paul's letter regarding our being sealed by the holy spirit until the day of redemption was clear.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Let me guess, you have not read the posts.....
The scriptures do not use the word unsealed. And they don't use the words "Express ticket to Hell" or "See ya wouldn't what to be ya" or "See ya later alligator" But they do say unequivocally that sin can send you to Hell.
Going by what is not in the scripture is no way to understand Christianity.
Furthermore promoting this style of Once Saved Always Saved is a great sin. There are people out there that are struggling to be moral. And it is something that Satan would love, yelling from Hell....."WHOPPIE SIN ALL YA WANT....YOU WILL STILL GO TO HEAVEN!!! Some people hear this BS and think there is no reason to try not to sin, and end up in Hell because of people like you and @PeterAndroz. So go on sinning, you deserve what you get.
Gray_Joy
Active Member
I have read Paul's epistle in Ephesians 1
The foundational truth of our eternal salvation is everything God says it is. And is not vacated by mortal opinion that stands opposed .
Ziggy
Well-Known Member
"Abide in me" means to remain, dwell, or continue in a close, life-giving relationship with Jesus Christ, drawing spiritual life and sustenance from Him.
Biblical Context
The phrase comes from John 15:4-5, where Jesus says, “Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me” (ESV) Jesus uses the metaphor of a vine and branches to illustrate the intimate, dependent relationship believers must have with Him. Just as a branch derives life and nutrients from the vine, Christians receive spiritual life, guidance, and strength from ChristJhn 15:5
I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
Rom 11:21
For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
There is this song...
I can not resist
Hugs
Pavel Mosko
Active Member
I believe this but I would point to your position and it being questionable because it looks to me like it is basically a Calvinist one and on the Biblical front the Weakest area of Calvinism is the notion of a Limited Atonement, which has only a scant Biblical Foundation compared to the notion that Salvation is intended for everyone, which has dozens for verses that suggest that.
God’s Desire for All to Be Saved
- 1 Timothy 2:3-6 — “This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all...”
- 2 Peter 3:9 — “The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.”
- Titus 2:11 — “For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people.”
Christ Died / Atoned for the World / All
- 1 John 2:2 — “He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.” (Often called one of the strongest against strict limitation.)
- John 1:29 — “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!”
- John 3:16-17 — “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.”
- John 6:51 — “...the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh.”
- 2 Corinthians 5:14-15, 19 — “For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all, therefore all have died; and he died for all, that those who live might no longer live for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised. ... that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them...”
- 1 Timothy 4:10 — “...we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe.”
Broader Scope / All Men
- Romans 5:18 — “Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men.”
- Romans 11:32 — “For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all.”
- Hebrews 2:9 — “But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.”
- Isaiah 53:6 (OT backdrop) — “All we like sheep have gone astray... and the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all.”
Pavel Mosko
Active Member
(I answered your question in Grok so it could do the heavy lifting of getting citations for me)
The claim equates “unsealed” with “unsaved” and challenges others to show where Paul (taught directly by Christ, Gal 1:11-12) teaches that a genuinely saved, sealed believer can become unsealed/unsaved. This is a classic “once saved, always saved” (OSAS) / Perseverance of the Saints argument, often tied to Ephesians 1:13 (“sealed with the promised Holy Spirit”).
While the sealing is a powerful assurance (a guarantee/pledge — Eph 1:13-14; 2 Cor 1:22), Scripture presents the New Covenant as involving divine faithfulness + human responsibility, with real warnings about falling away. Here’s a structured biblical response:
1. The Nature of Covenant in the Bible
Biblical covenants blend unconditional promises (God’s sovereign commitment, e.g., Abrahamic — land/seed/blessing; New Covenant’s ultimate fulfillment) with conditional elements (human response, obedience, continuance). The Mosaic Covenant was explicitly conditional (blessings/curses — Deut 28-30). Even “unconditional” ones often assume or require ongoing relational fidelity.The New Covenant (foretold in Jer 31:31-34; Ezek 36:26-27; fulfilled in Christ — Luke 22:20; Heb 8:8-12) is superior: God writes His law on hearts, gives a new spirit, and forgives sins. Yet Hebrews (quoting Jeremiah) applies it with ongoing exhortations to hold fast — it’s not automatic “fire insurance” detached from perseverance.
Paul himself frames salvation in covenantal terms: reconciliation “if indeed you continue in the faith” (Col 1:21-23). The seal is real, but the covenant relationship involves walking in the Spirit, not quenching/grieving Him (1 Thess 5:19; Eph 4:30).
2. Passages on Free Will and Opting Out of Covenant Relationship
Scripture affirms genuine choice and the possibility of turning away, even for those who have experienced God’s blessings:- Hebrews 3:12 — “Take care, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God.”
- Hebrews 6:4-6 — “For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted... the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance...” (Addresses those with real Spirit experience.)
- Hebrews 10:26-29 — “For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins... How much worse punishment... for the one who has trampled underfoot the Son of God... and has outraged the Spirit of grace?”
- Galatians 5:4 — “You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace.”
- 1 Timothy 4:1 — “Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits...”
- 2 Peter 2:20-21 — “For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them... it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness...”
- Colossians 1:21-23 — Reconciled... if indeed you continue in the faith, stable and steadfast...
3. The Parable of the Sower (Soil = Heart of the Believer)
Jesus’ Parable (Matt 13:1-23; Mark 4; Luke 8:4-15) is powerful here. The seed is the word; the soils are different hearts:- Rocky soil: “They believe for a while, and in time of testing fall away” (Luke 8:13). Initial genuine reception and belief, but no root → apostasy under trial.
- Thorny soil: Receives the word, but cares/riches choke it → unfruitful (not persevering to maturity).
4. Other Strong Examples (Pauline and Broader)
- 1 Corinthians 9:24-27 — Paul disciplines himself “lest... I myself should be disqualified” (same word used for failing the test in other contexts).
- Romans 11:17-22 — Gentiles grafted into the olive tree (covenant people): “if you do not continue in his kindness, you too will be cut off.”
- Ephesians 4:30 + context — Don’t grieve the Spirit “by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption” — implies the possibility of grieving to the point of relational rupture.
- 1 Corinthians 15:1-2 (your cited gospel) — “...by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached...”
- John 15:1-6 (vine and branches) — Branches “in Him” that don’t abide are cut off, withered, burned.
- Warnings about the “great falling away” (2 Thess 2:3; Matt 24:10-13) assume real believers can be vulnerable.
This view honors both the security in Christ and the sober warnings that run throughout Paul, Hebrews, Peter, and Jesus Himself. It fits a synergistic, therapeutic understanding of salvation (theosis-like growth in grace) rather than a purely forensic “transaction” that can’t be forfeited. The New Covenant transforms the heart but calls us to ongoing faithfulness.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
It is said that whatever you want to believe, you can find a few scriptures to support it. All I can say is tell them to pack the barbeque sauce in your casket. You will need it.
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