If sealed with the HS, how does one become UNsealed ?

[mailmandan]

That's because you do teach heresy.
If you believe that doctrine saves MMD
then you better make darn sure that you have your doctrine right.

Believing either OSAS or NOSAS is not what saves. Faith in Jesus Christ saves. (Ephesians 2:8,9)

You sure are one confused dude.
Have you become a gnostic?

Nope. You seem to have a rigid belief about OSAS.

Not engaging in your tiraid against the very church that saved the NT writings for you.

The Roman Catholic church takes credit for a lot of things and they remain under the delusion that they are the one and only true church.

Sure.
Because you cannot make your case.
OSAS WAS NEVER taught in the early church.

Unless you could prove othewise of course.

I already proved it from Scripture.

The wicked could, maybe, be those that teach doctrine that will send some to hell.
Just sayin.

Jesus drew the line in the sand on who will and won't be saved. John 3:18.

As you know,,,I'm tired of playing the verse game with you.

Your theology causes conflict in the NT.

This is due to your inability to properly interpret scripture.

No conflict on my part because I properly harmonize Scripture with Scripture before reaching my conclusion on doctrine. It's your theology that culminates in works-righteousness, that causes conflict in the NT.

Because you twwist it to mean what you THINK it means
or what you WANT it to mean

instead of taking it at face value.

Face value while negating context and hermeneutics results in contradictions.

Sounds kind of like what YOU believe.

Which OTHER CHURCH existed in the earlty times MMD.
BEFORE the year 1,000AD

They were mentioned in the article that you apparently did not read.

And why post articles by men that are fallible?
You haven't replied to this.

You remind me of a cunning lawyer. I don't share articles by men in order to imply their interpretation of Scripture is infallible, buy they still may be helpful. Proverbs 27:17 - As iron sharpens iron, So one person sharpens another.

And your articles are junk.
Written to degrade the very church that gave you your bible.

You really stick up for the Roman Catholic church, which is no surprise.

Incredible.

What's the difference between SAVED
and
TRULY SAVED?

Saved is saved (truly saved) yet there are genuine Christians, and there are pseudo Christians. There are genuine believers, and there are make believers, and it's not hard to find them mixed together throughout Scripture, in various churches today and on various Christian forum sites.

And your copy and paste is rather boring.
Are you incapable of a real conversation?

Like I said, cunning lawyer. We need to be Bereens, and not lawyers.

 

[mailmandan]

Yes- Always said this: You're a nice guy and most certainly are following Jesus...
but...
your theology is OFF THE RAILS.

So, I should be trusting in SELF preservation rather than God's preservation? Then my theology would not be off the rails? I could also go back to living in fear and bondage to insecurity and being miserable. No thanks. Been there, done that already.

What do you make of all those warnings in the NT?
All those IF's.

I guess they're PRESCRIPTIVE.

View attachment 85784

Oh.
Descriptive.
Sorry.

GENUINE CHRISTIANS
PSEUDO CHRISTIANS

What other type of Christians are there?

Copy and pasted.
Not interested.

Not interested in the Scriptures I cited? Descriptive passages of Scripture vs. prescriptive passages of Scripture seem to trip you up, which explains why you don't understand many IF passages in Scripture as being conditional confirmations.

 

[Truth7t7]

Unless you can show one verse where the Holy Spirit’s seal is broken before the day of redemption, you have proved nothing.

I Agree 100%, They Can't!

 

[mailmandan]

Oh.

So Jesus died so we could get some rewards.
This has always been an intersting concept to me.

I THOUGHT it was to teach us how to go to heaven.

Let's see what both Jesus and Paul have to say about this odd idea:

Paul ---- Your hero:

Romans 2:6-8
God, 6who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS:

7to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life;

8but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation.

Here's Jesus....you like Him less, but He's the one that died for you, so I like to post Him too:

John 5:28-29
28“Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,

29and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

They seem to agree.
Must seem strange to you.

So. Take your pick.

It's not about rewards...
It's about SALVATION.

THIS is what the Christian religion teaches.

More 'descriptive' passages of scripture.

In regard to John 5:28-29, Jesus is describing those who did good deeds (believers) and will receive a resurrection of life. Jesus is not saying that these believers were saved based on the merits of their good deeds. What did Jesus say was the basis or means of receiving eternal life in John 3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26? *Not good deeds. What did Paul say in Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9? *Not good deeds either. Jesus goes on to describe those who committed evil deeds (unbelievers) to a resurrection of judgment. *Hermeneutics.

*We see the same descriptive language in Romans 2:5-8. These good deeds done are the result of, not the means or basis of receiving eternal life.

So patient continuance in well doing, seeking for glory, honor, and immortality; (vs. 7) is not at all set forth as the means of their procuring eternal life, but as a description of those to whom God does render life eternal.

*Notice that ALL who receive eternal life are described as such, everyone who does good (vs. 10). Good deeds flow from a heart that is saved and evil deeds flow from a heart that is unsaved. Verse 8 - but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth but obey unrighteousness--indignation and wrath.

*Notice that ALL who do not receive eternal life are described as such, everyone who does evil (vs. 9). What those passages convey is that though our deeds are judged by God, it's not the good deeds themselves which are the basis or means by which we receive eternal life, but the type of deeds expose our heart condition and salvation status.

These good deeds done out of faith are the fruit of, but not the root of salvation. If Paul wanted to teach that we are saved by works, then he would have clearly stated that we are saved through faith and works in Ephesians 2:8 and that we are justified by faith and works in Romans 5:1 but that is clearly NOT what Paul said. *Also see (Romans 3:24-28; 4:4-6; 11:6; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9 etc..).

 

[Wrangler]

Believing either OSAS or NOSAS is not what saves. Faith in Jesus Christ saves. (Ephesians 2:8,9)

Nope. You seem to have a rigid belief about OSAS.

You remind me of a cunning lawyer. I don't share articles by men in order to imply their interpretation of Scripture is infallible, buy they still may be helpful. Proverbs 27:17 - As iron sharpens iron, So one person sharpens another.

Saved is saved (truly saved) yet there are genuine Christians, and there are pseudo Christians. There are genuine believers, and there are make believers, and it's not hard to find them mixed together throughout Scripture, in various churches today and on various Christian forum sites.

Like I said, cunning lawyer. We need to be Bereens, and not lawyers.

Another outstanding post Dan.

In considering any point of doctrine, I often consider the implications in practical terms. Jesus didn't wash his hands before he ate. I prefer to separate dirt from what I eat but it is a trivial matter by today's standards either way. What are the consequences of embracing OSAS?

There are many, starting with rejecting much of Christ's words, and ending with supposing one may act with impunity. Ephesians 2:8,9 is exactly right. Works do not save but show that one is truly faithful. Compare to Matthew 12:50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”

OSAS breeds contempt for God's word, the teachings of Jesus and complacency in living out deep and meaningful faith. I'll start another thread on how confident we should be in being saved.