If sealed with the HS, how does one become UNsealed ?

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Grailhunter

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Only an evildoer who worships Satan would promote the belief that a Christian can sin all they want and still go to Heaven. Satan wants people to sin. Satan want people to sin all they want and think they are going to Heaven. The golden prize on Satan's shelf is a Christian in Hell because they believed Grace was a license to sin.

Matthew 7:15-20 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

Matthew 7:21-23 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

Revelation 21:8 But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”

Mark 9:43 And if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than with two hands to go to hell, to the unquenchable fire.

Matthew 3:36 He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

Romans 2:6-8 who will render to each person according to his deeds: to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life; but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation.

Matthew 13:40-42 So just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the [a]end of the age. 41 The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness, and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 25:41-46 “Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink; I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.’ Then they themselves also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?’ Then He will answer them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

2nd Corinthians 5:10: For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad..

Matthew 18:9 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you. It is better for you to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire.

Philippians 2:12 So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling;

1st Corinthians 6:9-10 “Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor those habitually drunk, nor verbal abusers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God”

Galatians 5:19-21 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: sexual immorality, impurity, indecent behavior, idolatry, witchcraft, hostilities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions, envy, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Ephesians 5:3-5 But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God’s holy people. Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving. For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person—such a person is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

John 5:28-29 Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

Romans 2:5-6 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, who will render to each person according to his deeds:
 

gpresdo

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Since the 1 Cor 15:1-4 gospel teaches that trust/belief in the Gospel is required to be saved I too also believe that the belief must be ongoing.
Where >>>does Paul<<< teach ANYTHING else to be & remain saved ?
Here is what Christ through Paul teaches as the ACTION requirements
What do you disagree with ?
..
Titus 3:
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Gal 2:
16
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
Gal 3:

2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Rom 3:
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Eph 2:

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Rom 4:
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Rom 5:
1
Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
Rom 11:
6
And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
Good scriptures but,doesnt alter specific commandments.
 

PeterAndroz

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Good scriptures but,doesnt alter specific commandments.
Then list the actual Scripture that teaches how someone today is saved & sealed
..
Who did Christ select as the Apostle & Minister to the Gentiles ?
Acts 9:15

But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, ...
Rom 11:13
For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles...
Rom 15:16
That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God...
+++
The other Apostles agreed & knew who taught who
Gal 2:2

And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles,....
Gal 2:7
But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;
Gal 2:9
And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.
++++
What is the role of an Apostle/Minister ?
To teach THEIR audience.
BUT NOW there are NO SEPARATE audiences ALL are equal :-
Gal 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 6:15
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
1 Cor 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Col 3:11
Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
++++
How are believers 'today' saved, sealed, justified, made righteous ?
By the SAVING Gospel that applies today.
Gal 1:11-12
11But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

1 Cor 15:1-4
1Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
Eph 1:13
13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 4:30
30And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
++++
The PERFORMANCE conditions :-
Titus 3:

5Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Gal 2:
16Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Rom 3:
28Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Eph 2:

8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Rom 4:
5But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Rom 5:
1Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
Rom 11:
6
And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
++++
Your 'deeds'/works/behavior/performance only decide your eternal rewards/loss
Rom 14:10
10But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
1 Cor 3:10-15
10According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
11For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
2 Cor 5:10
10For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
 

GodsGrace

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OK
I checked out the link.
I checked the Didache, which I know something about.
it does have the new date of writing....it used to be about 120...now it's about 90AD.

The only problem there is that there are a lot of unauthorized writings also included and one would have to know how to distinguish.

Links like this might be the reason I get push-back when mentioning the ECFs...which I don't really do anymore because it derails the topic at hand.

What I like to do is go straight to the ones that were taught by The Apostles, or the very next genertion and then stop there.


For example:
Clement of Rome he was mentioned in, I believe, 1 Cor or maybe Acts
Ignatius of Antioch
Polycarp
Irenaeus
Justin Martyr
Barnabas he was mentioned too.

After the late 100's the teachings begin to change.
Origin wrote a lot of ideas the church did not agree with
and also Tertullian.


Anyway, thanks for the link!
 

GodsGrace

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I gave you verses that prove differently.
You don't reply to them.


You still can,,,if you are able to...




Here are some more....
The seal can be broken
Believers can fall away....


A believer can turn away from the truth:


2 Timothy 4:3-4
. 3For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires,
4and will turn away their ears from the truth



A believer can be led astray:


2 Corinthians 11:3
. 3But I am afraid that, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, your minds will be led astray from the simplicity and purity of devotion to Christ.



A believer can be hardened by sin:

Hebrews 3.12-13
12Take care, brethren, that there not be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart that falls away from the living God.
13But encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called “Today,” so that none of you will be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin.



One must endure to the end:

Hebrews 3:14
14For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end,




So here you have TWO posts that are very serious and contain no one sentence remarks.


Let's see how you handle the plain and clear scripture.

Please explain the above since you believe a seal cannot be broken and the above scripture teaches that it can.









I'm glad you quoted verses and not just some childish moronic comment like others sometimes do :gd

If you can handle the above....
I might just stop declaring that you are one confused dude.


Confused persons DO NOT UNDERSTAND the very verses they post.
 

GodsGrace

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Then list the actual Scripture that teaches how someone today is saved & sealed
..
Who did Christ select as the Apostle & Minister to the Gentiles ?
Acts 9:15

But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, ...
Rom 11:13
For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles...
Rom 15:16
That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God...
+++
The other Apostles agreed & knew who taught who
Gal 2:2

And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles,....
Gal 2:7
But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;
Gal 2:9
And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.
++++
What is the role of an Apostle/Minister ?
To teach THEIR audience.
BUT NOW there are NO SEPARATE audiences ALL are equal :-
Gal 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 6:15
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
1 Cor 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Col 3:11
Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
++++
How are believers 'today' saved, sealed, justified, made righteous ?
By the SAVING Gospel that applies today.
Gal 1:11-12
11But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

1 Cor 15:1-4
1Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
Eph 1:13
13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 4:30
30And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
++++
The PERFORMANCE conditions :-
Titus 3:

5Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Gal 2:
16Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Rom 3:
28Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Eph 2:

8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Rom 4:
5But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Rom 5:
1Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
Rom 11:
6
And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
++++
Your 'deeds'/works/behavior/performance only decide your eternal rewards/loss
Rom 14:10
10But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
1 Cor 3:10-15
10According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
11For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
2 Cor 5:10
10For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
Carpet bombing.

When are you going to learn how to post scripture?
 

MatthewG

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The reality is this: if someone isn’t actually listening to what Jesus said, yet they expect to be gathered as the bride of Christ, then they wouldn’t have been taken in the first place. Jesus asked, “Why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not the things which I say” (Luke 6:46). His words mattered.

Everything in Scripture is specific — especially the instructions Jesus gave to His disciples in their time. He told them, “Go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel” (Matthew 10:6), and later, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel” (Mark 16:15). These were real commands to real people living in a real moment of history.

So if someone today wants to claim they’re fulfilling those same first‑century missions — going to Israel, going to the Gentiles of that age, watching for the signs Jesus told them to watch for — then okay. But most people aren’t doing that.

That’s why I don’t understand why people keep circling around this idea of being “sealed until the day of redemption” as if it automatically applies to them without context. Paul wrote that to believers in his own time (Ephesians 4:30), people who were actually living through the events he warned them about.

If all we’re doing is talking about these things intellectually, with no connection to the mission Jesus gave and no response to His words, then it means nothing. James said, “Be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves” (James 1:22). Talking without living it out is self‑deception.

The Bible wasn’t written for endless debates. It was written to real people who were living through the things Jesus spoke about. If we’re going to discuss these passages, we should at least respect the context they were spoken into.
 
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GodsGrace

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That is great site GodsGrace.
And as far as early Christian Writings, you have to be careful about what they label Gnostic. Gnostic is a
derogatory term. The term Gnostic did not exist before the 17th century so they could not have called themselves that.
(The term “Gnosticism” was first used in print in 1669, in a work by the English poet and philosopher of religion Henry More) The meaning of the word is loose.....have knowledge.....secret knowledge....Gnostic effectively means I do not like you or what you believe in. These people were secretive......and good at it. Most of what we think we know about them comes from the writings criticizing them. Mostly a secret way of becoming saved.

So you have to take these early Christian writings on their own merit.
I know which ones are authoratative.
The early church was not a dumb church.
 

GodsGrace

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The latter. I had hoped you might recognize it. It is from the traditional Latin Eucharist prayer, if you've ever attended a Latin Mass. We Methodists have a similar traditional prayer before Communion: Lord, we are not worthy so much as to gather the crumbs from under thy table...
No Protestant churches around here.
WHEN I go it's the CC.
It would be fine except for some doctrine, which we won't get into here.
It's unfortunate.

I go to a Latin Mass rarely, up in a sanctuary, very pretty, about 45 minutes north of me in the mountains.
A monk who used to have lessons every Wed PM, until covid, is also a priest. He's very conservative....he does the Mass in Latin. When I was growing up in the CC the Mass was always in Latin.

So before communion they say:
Lord I am not worthy to enter under your roof...
only say the word and my soul will be healed.
(in any Mass)

(Matthew 8:8)
 
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GodsGrace

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The reality is this: if someone isn’t actually listening to what Jesus said, yet they expect to be gathered as the bride of Christ, then they wouldn’t have been taken in the first place. Jesus asked, “Why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not the things which I say” (Luke 6:46). His words mattered.

Everything in Scripture is specific — especially the instructions Jesus gave to His disciples in their time. He told them, “Go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel” (Matthew 10:6), and later, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel” (Mark 16:15). These were real commands to real people living in a real moment of history.

So if someone today wants to claim they’re fulfilling those same first‑century missions — going to Israel, going to the Gentiles of that age, watching for the signs Jesus told them to watch for — then okay. But most people aren’t doing that.

That’s why I don’t understand why people keep circling around this idea of being “sealed until the day of redemption” as if it automatically applies to them without context. Paul wrote that to believers in his own time (Ephesians 4:30), people who were actually living through the events he warned them about.

If all we’re doing is talking about these things intellectually, with no connection to the mission Jesus gave and no response to His words, then it means nothing. James said, “Be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves” (James 1:22). Talking without living it out is self‑deception.

The Bible wasn’t written for endless debates. It was written to real people who were living through the things Jesus spoke about. If we’re going to discuss these passages, we should at least respect the context they were spoken into.
We debate Matthew because some of us see changes in the Christian faith that should not be happening.
We see some ideas that took hold that were never taught either at the time of Jesus/Apostles or at the time of the early church...which is when the Apostles did what you've written about....

They went and taught others what Jesus taught them.

Some think life ended with Revelation.
These were real people, as you've stated, that gave their lives to teach the gospel and the message of jesus to others.

It's nice to know someone actually understands this.

The reason I post is to give some push-back on this nonsense we hear.
OSAS
FAITH ALONE
SEALS
CONFESSION NOT NECESSARY

And on it goes.
 

GodsGrace

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I'm glad you quoted verses and not just some childish moronic comment like others sometimes do :gd
Please reply to my posts so that it will not be necessary to make moronic statements.
Thanks.

Prove you are NOT a confused dude.
 

GodsGrace

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Since 1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13, Eph 4:30 teaches that the condition to be saved/sealed is believing & trusting the Gospel do you believe that if that trust stops then the believer remains saved even though they no longer believe ?
What a GREAT question PeterAndroz.

What do YOU think?

If JESUS teaches that we are to ACT ON HIS WORD....Matthew 7:24-25
and we DO NOT....
will God still be happy with us?

Is God willing to accept whatever we dish out?

Or do you think Jesus meant that we should OBEY Him?
John 15:14
IF YOU LOVE ME,,YOU WILL KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS.


Do you think God SUGGESTS that we obey Him...
or do you think He COMMANDS that we obey Him?

Luke 11:28
28But he said, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and keep it!”


James 1:22
22But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves.


1 Peter 1:14
14As obedient children, do not be conformed to the passions of your former ignorance,


Romans 6:16
16Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness?



Now be careful and read the NT...all of it and remember that every single verse has to agree with every other verse.
You're asking the other member what he believes.
The other member is teaching heresy.


1 Timothy 4:1
1But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,
 

GodsGrace

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Well there were different opinions, but your opinions count with me.
Right.
The NT writings that were already circulating by 100AD were the authoratative source
and the early church went by what the Apostles taught.

Then things began to change.
 

GodsGrace

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My Post only talked about being born again by God's Holy Spirit.

Apparently you are not aware that "God is ABOVE".

You also dont trust in Christ to Keep you saved, which means you have no real faith in Christ.. and that is why you try to teach that you can lose your Salvation., as its only deceived religious people who teach that you can lose your Salvation.
And the thing is......(that you apparently can't understand @GodsGrace) ....is that if you dont Trust in Christ alone to Keep you saved, then who are you trusting, ????????? as this is now your SAVIOR, = now that you dont bellieve that JESUS KEEPS YOU SAVED.

See yourself yet?

What I see is a person that teaches heresy and NOT what Jesus taught.

You talk too much.

How about posting some scripture and discussing that instead?


You're trusting in yourself. Your hanging on your own Self Righteousness CROSS trying not to "lose your salvation".
This means you are a deceived Legalist.
You are a SELF Saver.... (self defined by what you believe) ..... And you'll tell us what you are doing to try to stay saved ....while you post verses you dont understand.., and other cut ansd paste theologically ignorant info, that only proves that you have no real faith in Christ, which is why you dont believe that Jesus keeps you saved.

"""well Behold i do trust in Christ to keep me saved, as long as i do all this on my SELF SAVING LIST to try to STAY SAVED and not lose my Salvation""""

See yourself yet?
More word salad.

I really don't care about your OPINIONS Behold.

Please post scripture that supports you POINT OF VIEW which is not biblical.

Do you know HOW to post scritpure?
Not all do.

Here's how:
Make a statement.
Post the verse that backs it up. Maybe 2...3 at the most.

And then we can have an adult conversation about the heresy you teach.

For instance...
WHERE did I make the statement that I'm saving myself?

That is one of the dumbest statements I read on these Forums.

False dichotomy ....

because you do not have THE TRUTH.

You're LYING TO YOURSELF, and to this Forum, and God knows it, and so do I.



There is no verse found in a Real Bible that says we have to "remain in Christ' to keep ourselves saved. @GodsGrace .

Really.
Can you post a verse that states that we are NOT to remain till the end?
No sir...you will not be able to because it does not exist.

However, here are some that state that WE MUST ENDURE to the end:


Hebrews 3:14
14For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end,


Colossians 1:

22yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach—

23if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast,



Please explain your understanding of the above before posting some of your own.
Ping Pong Verse is getting boring.

There is no verse in any Bible that is a real one that says that a Born Again Christian can stop being "In Christ".
Not one.

Really?
I see you haven't post scripture.
This is because there isn't any to make your CASE.


Here, instead, is proof positive that we can stop being in Christ.
Jesus said so:


John 15:1-2
1“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser.

2“Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away;


° The branch/believer is IN JESUS
° The branch/believer is TAKEN AWAY




There is no verse in any Real Bible that says a Christian can stop being "Born again".
Oh.
Now there are REAL bibles
and
FAKE bibles?

You're desperation is showing.

There is no verse in any Real Bible that says that a born again Christian can stop being "the temple of the Holy Spirit".
There is no verse in any Real Bible that says that a Born again Christian, can stop being in the Kingdom of God.

Its only deceived Heretics who have no faith in Christ to keep them saved.......who want to teach the Cross Denying LIE that Jesus's Redemption that is based on His BLOOD and DEATH that is the New Covenant, can't keep you saved.

FALSE DICHOTOMY.
Your desperation is showing.


And by the way reader.....
Its Paul who defines these deceived people, these "fallen from Grace'......>"bewitched" people, who try to deny Jesus's Eternal Salvation as HERETICS.
You can find this teaching in Titus chapter 3 in a KJV...if you want to do a little bible study, vs wasting your time on this Forum listening to Heretics try to destroy your faith in God's eternal Salvation.
Wasting my time on this Forum?
WHO is here ALL THE TIME, FOR YEARS...
spewing out poison that could kill a new Christian or even an older one
that does not read his REAL bible.

YOU sir, are the heretic.
YOU teach what was NEVER taught in the church until just a few hundred years ago.

I dont personally believe that a self professed "christian" can blaspheme the Holy Spirit more aggressively then to go on Public Forums or from behind a Pulpit and falsely teach that God's Son's Eternal Redemption that is the Blood of Jesus, the Blood Atonement.. = can't keep you saved.
And that is what these phony religious people LOVE TO DO most of all, on Forums and from behind Pulpits.
Who cares what you THINK Behold.

How about posting some scripture?

How about putting your money where your mouth is?

hmmx1:
 
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Grailhunter

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Right.
The NT writings that were already circulating by 100AD were the authoratative source
and the early church went by what the Apostles taught.

Then things began to change.

The date they were written means a lot and tells you a lot.
But what I was pointing out was that none of the early writings could be called Gnostic because the term did not exist yet.
But what they are in fact are Christian writings. They may not portray mainstream Christian beliefs, but they were written by people that had certain beliefs.
At that time Christians had diverse beliefs.
What we call ECF's debated some of those beliefs.
The canon of texts were beginning to form before the Ecumenical Councils. And then the councils eventually confirmed them.
And even after the canon was affirmed varies churches had favored texts that did not make the canon.
But like I said these texts that are a lot times labeled Gnostic, give us an idea of the diversity of beliefs of the time period that they were written.
 
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Lambano

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Since 1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13, Eph 4:30 teaches that the condition to be saved/sealed is believing & trusting the Gospel do you believe that if that trust stops then the believer remains saved even though they no longer believe ?
Now you're starting to ask the right questions.
 
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Lambano

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Here's another good question:

30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. (Ephesians 4:30).

Why does Paul tell us not to grieve the Holy Spirit? What is the context of Ephesians 4:17-32 of which this verse a part?

_89145696_broken-seal.jpg
 
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