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Featured If the law was abolished at the cross...

Discussion in 'Christian Debate Forum' started by brrrilliantsteve, Apr 3, 2016.

  1. brrrilliantsteve

    brrrilliantsteve Member

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    "But if the law was abolished at the cross, as many claim, then the agony and death of God’s dear Son were endured only to give to Satan just what he asked; then the prince of evil triumphed, his charges against the divine government were sustained. The very fact that Christ bore the penalty of man’s transgression is a mighty argument to all created intelligences that the law is changeless; that God is righteous, merciful, and self-denying; and that infinite justice and mercy unite in the administration of His government. PP 70.1" (Patriarchs and Prophets, chapter 4).

    Just some food for thought... What is the prognosis for a world where God's law is abolished?

    What is Gods Law?
    "God is love.” 1 John 4:16. His nature, His law, is love. It ever has been; it ever will be. “The high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity,” whose “ways are everlasting,” changeth not. With Him “is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.” Isaiah 57:15; Habakkuk 3:6; James 1:17. PP 33.1.
    These are the opening lines which the book quoted (Patriarch and Prophets) uses to establish God's law, being the principles established by the 'government of God'.

    So who doesn't love love?
    Lucifer, the son of the morning, the covering cherub anointed by God to that position (Isaiah 14:12, Ezekiel 28:14), lifted up his heart because of his beauty and corrupted the wisdom he had because of his brightness (Ezekiel 28:17). "For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High." KJV — Isaiah 14:1314
    In my words, lucifer stopped looking at God and started looking at himself. He became full of pride then jealousy. But to fill that position he aspired to he needed to oust the rightful heir.

    According to the author this is how it went down...
    "The exaltation of the Son of God as equal with the Father was represented as an injustice to Lucifer, who, it was claimed, was also entitled to reverence and honor. If this prince of angels could but attain to his true, exalted position, great good would accrue to the entire host of heaven; for it was his object to secure freedom for all. But now even the liberty which they had hitherto enjoyed was at an end; for an absolute Ruler had been appointed them, and to His authority all must pay homage. Such were the subtle deceptions that through the wiles of Lucifer were fast obtaining in the heavenly courts. PP 37.1 There had been no change in the position or authority of Christ. Lucifer’s envy and misrepresentation and his claims to equality with Christ had made necessary a statement of the true position of the Son of God; but this had been the same from the beginning. Many of the angels were, however, blinded by Lucifer’s deceptions. PP 38.1"
    Of note there is no scripture references here. Wether written through postulation or inspiration the premise of Satan wanting Jesus position brings us back to the original statement.

    If Satan despises Jesus, his authority and his law, then he would surely want to "make of no effect" the commandments (mat 15:6), the word (Mar 7:3), the faith and promise (Rom 4:14), and the cross of Christ (1Cor 1:17).
     
  2. StanJ

    StanJ Lifelong student of God's Word.

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    The law wasn't abolished it became obsolete as Hebrews teaches. It actually disappeared when Jerusalem and the temple were destroyed in 70 AD. Since that time there has been no levitical priesthood and therefore nobody to administer the written laws of Moses. Under the New Covenant there is no written laws, but only laws that are written on our hearts by God and they are for individuals and not collectively for the body of Christ. The New Testament is all we need as far as writing is concerned to show us how we should walk and then that regard it is reflective of what Jesus ushered in under the New Covenant.
     
  3. Angelina

    Angelina Prayer Warrior Staff Member Admin

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    The law was not abolished at the cross. It was the power of the law that was taken away, which is death. The law was given to show how utterly sinful mankind is before a Holy God...Christ came as a sinless sacrifice in place of mankind so that by faith in Jesus Christ, mankind can be forgiven of sin, washed with Christs blood and redeemed into his eternal Kingdom as children of the most high God.
     
    Dan57 likes this.
  4. brrrilliantsteve

    brrrilliantsteve Member

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    Thank you Angelina for that beautiful insight.

    And Stan by your response I can see you are not only a student of God's word but a doer of the word also. Yet it is plain to see you are making of no effect both the commandments and the word when you claim there are no written laws and the New Testament is all we need.

    I ask you to reconsider the Old Testament. Look for shadows of Jesus in its stories.
     
  5. StanJ

    StanJ Lifelong student of God's Word.

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    I love the Old Testament because through it we see God the Father. It's not the Old Testament that we need to disregard, it's the Old Covenant which is Obsolete and has disappeared. There are many things in the Old Testament that we can apply to ourselves as God sees fit to lay it on our hearts. My pastor preached A good sermon today about Joshua and how he was able to press on with God. Bottom line is the Old Covenant represents legality and the New Covenant represents freedom in Christ. God's laws are immutable.
     
  6. mjrhealth

    mjrhealth Well-Known Member

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    But you see, that is how he twists it all around, because you have now forgone grace (which is the work of God) so that you can keep the law(which is all your work), or as teh bible puts it

    Joh_1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

    Gal_5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

    Tat is also why Jesus gave the parable about the old wine(the law) and teh new wine(teh spirit) see those who have never tasted teh Holy Spirit and grace prefer the law, one is of teh flesh and gains nothing the other is of teh spirit and gives life, yet so few choose life.
     
  7. Barrd

    Barrd His Humble Servant

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    God never promised that His New Covenant would be a Covenant with no law. In fact, the opposite is true:

    Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
    Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
    Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
    Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

    And just in case someone thinks, "Oh, but that's Old Testament", check out Hebrews:

    Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
    Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
    Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
    Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
    Heb 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

    Obviously, God's law has not been "done away".
     
  8. Tropical Islander

    Tropical Islander New Member

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    "I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts:"

    That's true. However most people have a different understanding of what that actually means. Some go so far to reverse the meaning in their explanation. But actually its a proof text for a new covenant relationship

    The straightforward explanation makes the most sense. The laws have changed location. If they are in the mind and in the heart: then there is a new covenant relationship in existence. And if not, then either the understanding lacks behind, or is indication that this not has happened yet on a personal level.
     
  9. Barrd

    Barrd His Humble Servant

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    I like the way John put it.
    What is sin? Simple.

    1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
     
  10. Barrd

    Barrd His Humble Servant

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    Stop and consider what the Ten Commandments are, and whether they could be "done away"...

    Exo 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
    Exo 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
    Exo 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
    Exo 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
    Exo 20:7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
    Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
    Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
    Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
    Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
    Exo 20:12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
    Exo 20:13 Thou shalt not kill.
    Exo 20:14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.
    Exo 20:15 Thou shalt not steal.
    Exo 20:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
    Exo 20:17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

    These laws are the basic, fundamental laws that everything else is built on. Without them, there is nothing but chaos.
     
  11. StanJ

    StanJ Lifelong student of God's Word.

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    Actually the Ten Commandments were built on God's existing laws at the time. Remember God had laws from day one and they were all not written down.
     
  12. StanJ

    StanJ Lifelong student of God's Word.

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  13. Tropical Islander

    Tropical Islander New Member

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    "Stop and consider what the Ten Commandments are, and whether they could be "done away"...


    Exo 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me."



    Well, have a look at this:
    http://www.cuttingedge.org/news/n1487.cfm



    In such a political and spiritual climate of course there is no more place for Gods commandments.


    And that's why current teaching that originates out of that country has usually the basic seed of misunderstanding that the law was " abolished at the cross..." as an important theme included - it's basically the occult version of grace teaching that lets sin prosper like nothing else. Where there is no law, of course there can be no sin. Presumeably. And that's why it is hardly ever dealt with. So it grows like in Sodom & Gomorrah until the final day of reckoning.
     
  14. StanJ

    StanJ Lifelong student of God's Word.

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    They have been. We no longer live under the law, we live under grace.
     
  15. ScaliaFan

    ScaliaFan New Member

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    could u please explain this?? It makes absolutely no sense to me.

    and i hope you dont believe in once saved always saved becasuse that is a big lie from the devil
     
  16. Tropical Islander

    Tropical Islander New Member

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    "They have been. We no longer live under the law, we live under grace."


    You don't want to imply that an occult nation or a modern Sodom & G is safe from judgment when they claim to live under grace?
     
  17. jaybird

    jaybird Active Member

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    if the law was abolished or made obsolete then it would make no sense for Jesus to teach over and over keep His commands and do the will of His Father and did Jesus not give a warning to those that would teach others its ok to break the law.

    Mat 5:19
    Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
     
  18. StanJ

    StanJ Lifelong student of God's Word.

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    God doesn't have a relationship with a nation anymore, that was under the Old Covenant with the nation of Israel. Under the New Covenant, God has a personal relationship with individuals through his son Jesus Christ, if those individuals confess Him as their savior.
     
  19. StanJ

    StanJ Lifelong student of God's Word.

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    Then I guess you have to understand what Jesus meant by; "until everything has been accomplished".
    IMO, that happened when Jesus rose from the dead and ascended to the Father.
     
  20. jaybird

    jaybird Active Member

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    i agree with you on that stan, yet i believe few people understand it.

    not sure i agree on that one as it would mean all other teachings of Jesus would go right out the window the minute He ascended to His Father. if all is accomplished, complete, then why is Jesus coming back, why are we even here?
     
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