If the papacy is the first beast, why don't we consider the spanish inquisition to be the second?

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Jay Ross

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Indeed it does. The first 39 popes were killed by pagan Romans. Plus 1 more. This fact never appears on anti-Catholic web sites. Anti-Catholics quote "the blood of the martyrs" from Revelation, but can't name any of them. Equating the beast with Catholicism is a form of psychosis and spiritual blindness IMO. It's commonly found in the made-in-America cults and certain fundamentalist circles.

Thank you for displaying your disconnect with the world that we both live in.

If you had noticed I approached the question, posed in this thread's title, purely from a biblical perspective by identifying who the beasts are. It is my understanding that the beasts are fallen demonic Angels who exercise their influence over people such that within the people groups, nations, kingdoms and empires the principle characteristics of the respective beasts, i.e. the fallen angels, can be seen in the manifestations that rise up out of the sea of humanity.

I do not wish to be a part of the accusation or defence of the Catholic Church through the respective ignorance on the part of both sides over whether or not the Roman Catholic Church is one of the beasts. Because of the influence of the "Beast Angels," both the reformation and Catholic Churches may well have manifested the characteristics of the four "beasts" that continually stir up the sea of humanity, even today.

When we turn away from God and His words and statutes, we really become beastly in our actions, such that both sides of this argument, as to whether or not the RCC is one of the beasts, reduces down to which side of the argument is more beastly than the other side. As the argument grows both sides display their respective beastly natures and characteristics such that, as an outsider looking in, I can not make out the difference between the "beasts" of both sides, because as the disagreement continues God's nature is lost within the respective two sides of the argument such that God is nowhere to be seen in either side.

Yes we can identify the characteristics of the respective "beasts" within the manifesting people groups, kingdoms, nations or empires but we also lose the ability to see the ebbing and flow of the respective beasts as they progress over time within the changing people groups, kingdoms, nations and empires that flow in and out of the influence of the respective beasts that they have and will manifest as time passes.

Both sides are showing their ignorance in the scriptures attempting to display their own righteousness in this discussion.

Shalom

PS: - If the author of this thread was a fisherman, he does not have to change his bait to hook people up on his line of thought. His bait is appropriate for all species as they all bite on the same bait.
 
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pittsburghjoe

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I don't want to be right. My parents are RCC, this is a nightmare trying to show them the obvious things the beast did with authority of their Church.

Revelation 12:17
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Could "remnant of her seed" be a Church that keeps the Sabbath?

It said "her" ..the Church ..it's talking about a Church that isn't under the papacy.
 

pittsburghjoe

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Can the finished testimony of the two Witnesses (Revelation 11:7) be the completion of the Bible Canon?
Did satan only get authority of the RCC after the Bible Canon was complete?
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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If the papacy is the first beast, why don't we consider the spanish inquisition to be the second?[/Quote\]


PART ONE


I don't think the Papacy was or is the first Beast.
At Revelation 12:17 it tells us that the dragon became enraged at the woman and went to rage war with the remaining ones of her offspring. Revelation 13:1 then tells this serpent stood still upon the sand of the sea. Then then the first wild beast ascended out of the sea, having ten horns, and seven heads, and upon the horns ten diadems, but upon its seven heads blasphemous names. The first wild beast we see in Revelation 13:1 is like a leopa, but it's feet are like a bear, its mouth is as a lion. The dragon gives this beast its power and its throne and great authority.
I don't see how this first Beast can be the Papacy. Isn't it true that in the Bible in the book of Daniel the jewish prophet saw in visions four beasts. At Daniel 7:2-8 he describes four beasts coming out of the sea, the first resembling a lion, the second a bear, the third a leopard, and a fourth that was fearsome and terrible and unusually strong with ten horns. Isn't this vision in Daniel remarkably similar to what John sees in Revelation 13? In Daniel God tells us those beasts are four kings or political powers of the earth.
In another vision Daniel sees a two-horned ram that is struck down by a goat with a great horn. The Angel Gabriel explains that the two-horned ram stands for the kings of Medid and Persia and the goat with the great horn stands for the king of Greece. Gabriel goes on to prophesy that the the great horn of the goat would break and four horns will grow in its place.Daniel 8:3-8, 20-25.
This shows me that The Only True God regards the political powers of the earth as beasts. One commentator even says the beast of Revelation 13:1,2 a "brute", and adds: "We accept all the connotations that θηρίον [the·riʹon, the greek word for beast"] conveys, such as that of a cruel, destructive, frightful, ravenous monster. I think that describes the bloodstained political system by which Satan has dominated mankind. The seven heads of this first beast of Revelation 13:1 stand for six major world powers featured in bible history up to John day.(Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persian, Greece, and Rome) There was a seventh world power prophesied to appear later. Revelation 17:9, 10

Now I know there have been other world powers besides these seven- just as the wild beast John saw was made up of a body as well as of seven heads and ten horns. But the seven heads represent the seven major powers that have each in it's turn, taken the lead in oppressing God's people. In 33C.E. while Rome was ascendant, Satan used the head of the wild beast to kill the Son of God. At that time, God abandoned the faithless Jewish system of things and later , in 70 C.E., allowed Rome to execute his judgment on that nation. The true Israel of God, the congregation of anointed Christians, had been forewarned , and those in Jerusalem and in Judea had fled to safety beyond the jordan river.(Matthew 24:15,16; Galatians 6:16)

However by the end of the first century C.E.many in the early congregation had fallen away from the truth, and the true Christian wheat, "the sons of the kingdom," had been largely choked out by weeds, "the sons of the wicked one." Jesus told us this would happen. That for a long time the wheat and weeds would grow together, the world not knowing which were the weeds or wheat. But when the last days begin when Jesus invisible second presence began, anointed Christians again appeared as an organized group. During this time which is called the Lord's day, the righteous ones were due to "shine as brightly as the sun." Which means this Christian Congregation was organized to work.(Matthew 13:24-30,36-43) Of course by that time the Roman Empire was no more. But the huge British Empire, along with the United States of America, held the center of the world stage. It's this dual world power that proved to be the seventh head of the first beast of Revelation 13:1.
If anyone has a problem of the True God Jehovah or his witnesses calling nations or political powers beasts then why do these political powers today represent themselves with beasts. The British have the lion, United States the American Eagle,the Chinese the dragon.
Also why should anyone object to the Bible saying that it's Satan who gives the wild beast its great authority? God is the source of that statement. If people of the nations don't like the way the True God describes their political powers these political powers being nothing but dust, it would be better for them to court Gods favor. Gods word describes them at Isaiah 40:15,17; Psalm 2:10-12.

In the book of Daniel, fearsome beasts are described, and the numbering of their horns is to be interpreted literally. For example, the two horns on a ram represented a world empire made up of two partners, Media and Persia, while the four horns on a goat represented the four coexisting empires that grew out of Alexander the Great’s Greek empire. (Daniel 8:3, 8, 20-22) On the beast that John saw, however, the numbering of the ten horns appears to be symbolic. (Compare Daniel 7:24; Revelation 17:12.) They represent the completeness of sovereign states making up the entire political organization of Satan. All these horns are violent and aggressive, but as indicated by the seven heads, headship resides in only one world power at a time. Similarly, the ten diadems indicate that all sovereign states would exercise ruling power simultaneously with the dominant state, or world power, of that time.

The wild beast has “upon its heads blasphemous names,” making claims for itself that show great disrespect for Jehovah God and Christ Jesus. It has used the names of God and Christ as a sham to achieve its political ends; and it has played along with false religion, even allowing the clergy to take part in its political processes. For example, the House of Lords in England includes the bishops. Catholic cardinals have played prominent political roles in France and Italy, and more recently, priests have taken political office in Latin America. Governments print religious slogans, such as “IN GOD WE TRUST,” on their bank notes, and on their coins they claim divine approval for their rulers, stating, for example, that these are appointed “by the grace of God.” All of this is actually blasphemous, for it attempts to involve God in the sullied nationalistic political arena.

The wild beast comes out of “the sea,” which is a fitting symbol of the turbulent masses from which human government springs. (Isaiah 17:12, 13) This wild beast began to emerge out of the sea of turbulent humanity away back in the days of Nimrod (about the 21st century B.C.E.), when a post-Flood system of things, opposed to Jehovah, first manifested itself. (Genesis 10:8-12; 11:1-9) But only during the Lord’s day has the last one of its seven heads fully manifested itself. Notice, too, it is the dragon that “gave to the beast its power and its throne and great authority.” (Compare Luke 4:6.) The beast is Satan’s political creation among the masses of mankind. Satan is truly “the ruler of this world.”—John 12:31.
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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If the papacy is the first beast, why don't we consider the spanish inquisition to be the second?[/Quote\]

Part two
Early in the Lord’s day, calamity strikes the wild beast. John reports: “And I saw one of its heads as though slaughtered to death, but its death-stroke got healed, and all the earth followed the wild beast with admiration.” (Revelation 13:3)
This verse says that one head of the wild beast received a death stroke, but verse 12 speaks as though the entire beast suffered. Why is that? Well, the beast’s heads are not all in the ascendancy together. Each in its turn has lorded it over mankind, particularly over God’s people. (Revelation 17:10) Thus, as the Lord’s day begins, there is only one head, the seventh, acting as the dominant world power. A death stroke on that head brings great distress to the entire wild beast.

What was the death stroke? Later, it is called a sword stroke, and a sword is a symbol of warfare. This sword stroke, administered early in the Lord’s day, I think relates to the first world war, which devastated and drained Satan’s political wild beast. (Revelation 6:4, 8; 13:14) Author Maurice Genevoix, who was a military officer during that war, said of it: “Everyone agrees in recognizing that in the whole history of mankind, few dates have had the importance of August 2, 1914. First Europe and soon after almost all humanity found themselves plunged into a dreadful event. Conventions, agreements, moral laws, all the foundations shook; from one day to the next, everything was called into question. The event was to exceed both instinctive forebodings and reasonable anticipations. Enormous, chaotic, monstrous, it still drags us in its wake.”—Maurice Genevoix, member of the Académie Française, quoted in the book Promise of Greatness (1968).

For the dominant seventh head of the wild beast, that war was a major disaster. Along with other European nations, Britain lost its young men in traumatic numbers. In one battle alone, the Battle of the River Somme in 1916, there were 420,000 British casualties along with some 194,000 French and 440,000 German—more than 1,000,000 casualties! Economically, too, Britain—together with the rest of Europe—was shattered. The huge British Empire staggered under the blow and never fully recovered. Indeed, that war, with 28 leading nations participating, sent the entire world reeling as if by a deathblow. On August 4, 1979, just 65 years after the outbreak of World War I, The Economist, of London, England, commented: “In 1914 the world lost a coherence which it has not managed to recapture since.”

At the same time, the Great War, as it was then called, opened the way for the United States to emerge distinctly as part of the Anglo-American World Power. For the first years of the war, public opinion kept the United States out of the conflict. But as historian Esmé Wingfield-Stratford wrote, “it was all a question of whether, at this hour of supreme crisis, Britain and the United States would sink their differences in the realization of [their] overmastering unity and common trusteeship.” As events turned out, they did. In 1917 the United States contributed her resources and manpower to bolster the war effort of the staggering Allies. Thus, the seventh head, combining Britain and the United States, came out on the winning side.

Historian Charles L. Mee, Jr., writes: “The collapse of the old order [caused by the first world war] was a necessary prelude to the spread of self-rule, the liberation of new nations and classes, the release of new freedom and independence.” Leading in the development of this postwar era was the seventh head of the wild beast, now healed, and with the United States of America moving into the dominant role. The dual world power took the lead in advocating both the League of Nations and the United Nations. By the year 2005, U.S. political power had led the more privileged nations in creating a higher standard of living, in fighting disease, and in advancing technology. It had even placed 12 men on the moon. It is no wonder, therefore, that mankind in general has “followed the wild beast with admiration.”

Mankind has even gone beyond admiring the wild beast, as John next states: “And they worshiped the dragon because it gave the authority to the wild beast, and they worshiped the wild beast with the words: ‘Who is like the wild beast, and who can do battle with it?’” (Revelation 13:4) While Jesus was here on earth, Satan claimed to have authority over all the kingdoms of the earth. Jesus did not dispute this; in fact, he himself referred to Satan as the ruler of the world and refused to participate in the politics of that day. John later wrote of true Christians: “We know we originate with God, but the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one.” (1 John 5:19; Luke 4:5-8; John 6:15; 14:30) Satan delegates authority to the wild beast, and he does this on a nationalistic basis. Thus, instead of being united in bonds of godly love, mankind has become divided by pride of tribe, race, and nation. The great majority of people worship, in effect, that part of the wild beast having authority in the land where they happen to live. Thus the whole beast gains admiration and worship.

Worship in what sense? In the sense of putting love of country ahead of love of God. Most people love the land of their birth. As good citizens, true Christians also respect the rulers and the emblems of the country where they reside, obey the laws, and make a positive contribution to the welfare of their community and their neighbors. (Romans 13:1-7; 1 Peter 2:13-17) They cannot, however, give blind devotion to one country as against all others. “Our country, right or wrong” is not a Christian teaching. So Christians who worship Jehovah God cannot share in giving prideful patriotic worship to any part of the wild beast, for this would amount to worshipping the dragon—the source of authority of the beast. They cannot ask admiringly: “Who is like the wild beast?” Rather, they follow the example of Michael—his name meaning “Who Is Like God?”—as they uphold Jehovah’s universal sovereignty. At God’s appointed time, this Michael, Christ Jesus, will do battle with the wild beast and conquer it, even as he triumphed in expelling Satan from heaven.—Revelation 12:7-9; 19:11, 19-21.
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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If the papacy is the first beast, why don't we consider the spanish inquisition to be the second?[/Quote\]

Part three
The wily Satan had plans for manipulating the wild beast to his own ends. John explains this: “And a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies was given it [the seven-headed beast], and authority to act forty-two months was given it. And it opened its mouth in blasphemies against God, to blaspheme his name and his residence, even those residing in heaven. And there was granted it to wage war with the holy ones and conquer them, and authority was given it over every tribe and people and tongue and nation. And all those who dwell on the earth will worship it; the name of not one of them stands written in the scroll of life of the Lamb who was slaughtered, from the founding of the world.”—Revelation 13:5-8.

The 42 months mentioned here appear to be the same as the three and a half years during which the holy ones are harassed by a horn arising from one of the beasts in Daniel’s prophecy. (Daniel 7:23-25; see also Revelation 11:1-4.) Thus, from the end of 1914 on into 1918, while the warring nations were literally tearing at one another like wild beasts, citizens of those nations were pressured to worship the wild beast, to indulge in the religion of nationalism, even to be ready to die for their country. Such pressure led to intense suffering on the part of many of the anointed ones, who felt that their higher obedience belonged to Jehovah God and his Son, Christ Jesus. (Acts 5:29) Their trials came to a climax in June 1918, when they were ‘conquered.’ In the United States, prominent officers and other representatives of the Watch Tower Society were wrongly imprisoned, and the organized preaching by their Christian brothers was greatly hindered. Having authority “over every tribe and people and tongue and nation,” the wild beast clamped down on God’s work worldwide.

This seemed like a victory for Satan and his organization. But it could bring them no long-term benefits, since no one in Satan’s visible organization had his name written in “the scroll of life of the Lamb.” Figuratively, this scroll contains the names of those who will rule with Jesus in his heavenly Kingdom. The first names were written in it at Pentecost 33 C.E. And in the years since then, more and more names have been added. Since 1918, the sealing of the remaining ones of the 144,000 Kingdom heirs has been proceeding to completion. Soon, the names of all of them will be written indelibly in the Lamb’s scroll of life. As for the opposers who worship the wild beast, not one of these will have his name written in that scroll. So any apparent victory these may have over “the holy ones” is an empty one, merely temporary.
John now calls upon those with discernment to listen very carefully: “If anyone has an ear, let him hear.” Then he goes on to say: “If anyone is meant for captivity, he goes away into captivity. If anyone will kill with the sword, he must be killed with the sword. Here is where it means the endurance and faith of the holy ones.” (Revelation 13:9, 10) Jeremiah wrote words quite similar to these in the years preceding 607 B.C.E., to show that there was no turning back of Jehovah’s judgments for the unfaithful city of Jerusalem. (Jeremiah 15:2; see also Jeremiah 43:11; Zechariah 11:9.) In his time of great trial, Jesus made it plain that his followers must not compromise when he said: “All those who take the sword will perish by the sword.” (Matthew 26:52) Similarly, now in the Lord’s day God’s people must hold fast to Bible principles. There will be no final escape for unrepentant ones who worship the wild beast. All of us will need endurance, along with unshakable faith, in order to survive the persecutions and trials that lie ahead.—Hebrews 10:36-39; 11:6.

The Two-Horned Wild Beast

But now another wild beast comes onto the world scene. John reports: “And I saw another wild beast ascending out of the earth, and it had two horns like a lamb, but it began speaking as a dragon. And it exercises all the authority of the first wild beast in its sight. And it makes the earth and those who dwell in it worship the first wild beast, whose death-stroke got healed. And it performs great signs, so that it should even make fire come down out of heaven to the earth in the sight of mankind.” (Revelation 13:11-13) This wild beast has two horns, indicating a partnership of two political powers. And it is described as coming out of the earth, not out of the sea. Thus, it comes out of Satan’s already established earthly system of things. It must be a world power, already existing, that takes on a significant role during the Lord’s day.

What can it be? The Anglo-American World Power—the same as the seventh head of the first wild beast but in a special role! Isolating it in the vision as a separate wild beast helps us to see more clearly how it acts independently on the world stage. This figurative two-horned wild beast is made up of two coexisting, independent, but cooperating political powers. Its two horns “like a lamb” suggest that it makes itself out to be mild and inoffensive, with an enlightened form of government to which all the world should turn. But it speaks “as a dragon” in that it uses pressure and threats and even outright violence wherever its version of rulership is not accepted. It has not encouraged submission to God’s Kingdom under the rule of the Lamb of God but, rather, to the interests of Satan, the great dragon. It has promoted nationalistic divisions and hatreds that add up to worshipping the first wild beast.*

This two-horned wild beast performs great signs, even making fire come down from heaven. (Compare Matthew 7:21-23.) This latter sign reminds us of Elijah, the ancient prophet of God who engaged in a contest with the prophets of Baal. When he successfully called down fire from heaven in the name of Jehovah, it proved beyond doubt that he was a true prophet and that the Baal prophets were false. (1 Kings 18:21-40) Like those Baal prophets, the two-horned wild beast feels that it has adequate credentials as a prophet. (Revelation 13:14, 15; 19:20) Why, it claims to have vanquished the forces of evil in two world wars and was victorious over so-called godless Communism! Many, indeed, view the modern counterpart of the two-horned wild beast as a guardian of liberty and a font of material good things.
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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If the papacy is the first beast, why don't we consider the spanish inquisition to be the second?[/Quote\]

Part four

The Image of the Wild Beast


Is this two-horned wild beast as innocent as its lamb like horns would indicate? John goes on to say: “And it misleads those who dwell on the earth, because of the signs that were granted it to perform in the sight of the wild beast, while it tells those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the wild beast that had the sword-stroke and yet revived. And there was granted it to give breath to the image of the wild beast, so that the image of the wild beast should both speak and cause to be killed all those who would not in any way worship the image of the wild beast.”—Revelation 13:14, 15.


What is this “image of the wild beast,” and what is its purpose? The purpose is to promote the worship of the seven-headed wild beast of which it is an image and thus, in effect, to perpetuate the existence of the wild beast. This image is constructed after the seven-headed wild beast revives from its sword stroke, that is, after the end of the first world war. It is no lifeless statue, such as Nebuchadnezzar erected on the plains of Dura. (Daniel 3:1) The two-horned wild beast breathes life into this image so that the image can live and play a role in world history.


The outworking of history identifies this image as the organization proposed, promoted, and supported by Britain and the United States and known initially as the League of Nations. Later, in Revelation chapter 17, it will appear under a different symbol, that of a living, breathing scarlet-colored wild beast having an independent existence. This international body ‘speaks,’ in that it makes boastful claims to be the only one able to bring peace and security to mankind. But in reality it has become a forum for member nations to exchange verbal tirades and insults. It has threatened with ostracism, or a living death, any nation or people that does not bow to its authority. The League of Nations actually expelled nations that failed to abide by its ideologies. At the onset of the great tribulation, militaristic “horns” of this image of the wild beast will fulfill a devastating role.—Revelation 7:14; 17:8, 16.


Since World War II, the image of the wild beast—now manifested as the United Nations organization—has already killed in a literal way. For example, in 1950 a UN force took the field in the war between North Korea and South Korea. The UN force, along with the South Koreans, killed an estimated 1,420,000 North Koreans and Chinese. Similarly, from 1960 to 1964, United Nations armies were active in the Congo (Kinshasa). Moreover, world leaders, including popes Paul VI and John Paul II, have continued to affirm that this image is man’s last and best hope for peace. If mankind fails to serve it, they insist, the human race will destroy itself. They thus figuratively cause to be killed all humans who refuse to go along with the image and worship it.—Deuteronomy 5:8, 9.





The Mark of the Wild Beast


John now sees how Satan maneuvers the political parts of his visible organization to cause the maximum suffering for the remaining ones of the seed of God’s woman. (Genesis 3:15) He returns to describing “the wild beast” itself: “And it puts under compulsion all persons, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free and the slaves, that they should give these a mark in their right hand or upon their forehead, and that nobody might be able to buy or sell except a person having the mark, the name of the wild beast or the number of its name. Here is where wisdom comes in: Let the one that has intelligence calculate the number of the wild beast, for it is a man’s number; and its number is six hundred and sixty-six.”—Revelation 13:16-18.


The wild beast has a name, and this name is a number: 666. Six, as a number, is associated with Jehovah’s enemies. A Philistine man of the Rephaim was of “extraordinary size,” and his “fingers and toes were in sixes.” (1 Chronicles 20:6) King Nebuchadnezzar erected a golden image 6 cubits in breadth and 60 cubits high, to unify his political officials in one worship. When God’s servants refused to worship the image of gold, the king had them thrown into a fiery furnace. (Daniel 3:1-23) The number six falls short of seven, which stands for completeness from God’s standpoint. Therefore, a triple six represents gross imperfection.


A name identifies a person. So how does this number identify the beast? John says that it “is a man’s number,” not that of a spirit person, so the name helps to confirm that the wild beast is earthly, symbolizing human government. Just as six fails to measure up to seven, so 666—six to the third degree—is a fitting name for the world’s gigantic political system that fails so miserably to measure up to God’s standard of perfection. The world’s political wild beast rules supreme under the name-number 666, while big politics, big religion, and big business keep that wild beast functioning as an oppressor of mankind and a persecutor of God’s people.


What does it mean to be marked on the forehead or in the right hand with the name of the wild beast? When Jehovah gave Israel the Law, he told them: “You must apply these words of mine to your heart and your soul and bind them as a sign upon your hand, and they must serve as a frontlet band between your eyes.” (Deuteronomy 11:18) This meant that the Israelites had to keep that Law constantly before them, so that it influenced all their actions and thoughts. The 144,000 anointed ones are said to have the Father’s name and that of Jesus written on their foreheads. This identifies them as belonging to Jehovah God and Jesus Christ. (Revelation 14:1) In imitation, Satan uses the demonic mark of the wild beast. Anybody engaged in everyday activities such as buying and selling is pressured to do things the way the wild beast does, as, for example, in celebrating holidays. They are expected to worship the wild beast, letting it rule their lives, so as to receive its mark.



Those who refuse to accept the mark of the wild beast have had constant problems. Starting in the 1930’s, for example, they had to fight many court battles and endure violent mobbings and other persecutions. In the totalitarian countries, they were thrown into concentration camps, where many died. Since the second world war, countless young men have suffered lengthy imprisonments, some even being tortured and killed, because of their refusal to compromise their Christian neutrality. In other lands Christians are literally unable to buy or sell; some are unable to own property; others are raped, murdered, or chased from their native land. Why? Because in good conscience they refuse to buy a political party card.*—John 17:16.

In some areas of the earth, religion is so ingrained in community life that anyone who stands for Bible truth is ostracized by family and former friends. It takes great faith to endure. (Matthew 10:36-38; 17:22) In a world where the majority worship material wealth and where dishonesty is rampant, the true Christian often has to trust implicitly in Jehovah that He will uphold him in pursuing an upright course. (Psalm 11:7; Hebrews 13:18) In a world awash with immorality, it takes great determination to remain clean and pure. Christians who fall sick are often pressured by doctors and nurses to break God’s law on the sanctity of blood; they even have to resist court orders that conflict with their faith. (Acts 15:28, 29; 1 Peter 4:3, 4) And in these days of rising unemployment, it is becoming increasingly difficult for a true Christian to avoid work that would mean compromising his integrity before God.—Micah 4:3, 5.


Yes, the world is a difficult place for those who do not have the mark of the wild beast. It is an outstanding demonstration of Jehovah’s power and blessing that the remaining ones of the seed of the woman, as well as more than six million of the great crowd, are keeping integrity despite all the pressures to break God’s laws. (Revelation 7:9) Unitedly, throughout the earth, may all of us continue to magnify Jehovah and his righteous ways, as we refuse to receive the mark of the wild beast.—Psalm 34:1-3.
 

kcnalp

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If the papacy is the first beast, why don't we consider the spanish inquisition to be the second?[/Quote\]

Part four

The Image of the Wild Beast


Is this two-horned wild beast as innocent as its lamb like horns would indicate? John goes on to say: “And it misleads those who dwell on the earth, because of the signs that were granted it to perform in the sight of the wild beast, while it tells those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the wild beast that had the sword-stroke and yet revived. And there was granted it to give breath to the image of the wild beast, so that the image of the wild beast should both speak and cause to be killed all those who would not in any way worship the image of the wild beast.”—Revelation 13:14, 15.


What is this “image of the wild beast,” and what is its purpose? The purpose is to promote the worship of the seven-headed wild beast of which it is an image and thus, in effect, to perpetuate the existence of the wild beast. This image is constructed after the seven-headed wild beast revives from its sword stroke, that is, after the end of the first world war. It is no lifeless statue, such as Nebuchadnezzar erected on the plains of Dura. (Daniel 3:1) The two-horned wild beast breathes life into this image so that the image can live and play a role in world history.


The outworking of history identifies this image as the organization proposed, promoted, and supported by Britain and the United States and known initially as the League of Nations. Later, in Revelation chapter 17, it will appear under a different symbol, that of a living, breathing scarlet-colored wild beast having an independent existence. This international body ‘speaks,’ in that it makes boastful claims to be the only one able to bring peace and security to mankind. But in reality it has become a forum for member nations to exchange verbal tirades and insults. It has threatened with ostracism, or a living death, any nation or people that does not bow to its authority. The League of Nations actually expelled nations that failed to abide by its ideologies. At the onset of the great tribulation, militaristic “horns” of this image of the wild beast will fulfill a devastating role.—Revelation 7:14; 17:8, 16.


Since World War II, the image of the wild beast—now manifested as the United Nations organization—has already killed in a literal way. For example, in 1950 a UN force took the field in the war between North Korea and South Korea. The UN force, along with the South Koreans, killed an estimated 1,420,000 North Koreans and Chinese. Similarly, from 1960 to 1964, United Nations armies were active in the Congo (Kinshasa). Moreover, world leaders, including popes Paul VI and John Paul II, have continued to affirm that this image is man’s last and best hope for peace. If mankind fails to serve it, they insist, the human race will destroy itself. They thus figuratively cause to be killed all humans who refuse to go along with the image and worship it.—Deuteronomy 5:8, 9.





The Mark of the Wild Beast


John now sees how Satan maneuvers the political parts of his visible organization to cause the maximum suffering for the remaining ones of the seed of God’s woman. (Genesis 3:15) He returns to describing “the wild beast” itself: “And it puts under compulsion all persons, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free and the slaves, that they should give these a mark in their right hand or upon their forehead, and that nobody might be able to buy or sell except a person having the mark, the name of the wild beast or the number of its name. Here is where wisdom comes in: Let the one that has intelligence calculate the number of the wild beast, for it is a man’s number; and its number is six hundred and sixty-six.”—Revelation 13:16-18.


The wild beast has a name, and this name is a number: 666. Six, as a number, is associated with Jehovah’s enemies. A Philistine man of the Rephaim was of “extraordinary size,” and his “fingers and toes were in sixes.” (1 Chronicles 20:6) King Nebuchadnezzar erected a golden image 6 cubits in breadth and 60 cubits high, to unify his political officials in one worship. When God’s servants refused to worship the image of gold, the king had them thrown into a fiery furnace. (Daniel 3:1-23) The number six falls short of seven, which stands for completeness from God’s standpoint. Therefore, a triple six represents gross imperfection.


A name identifies a person. So how does this number identify the beast? John says that it “is a man’s number,” not that of a spirit person, so the name helps to confirm that the wild beast is earthly, symbolizing human government. Just as six fails to measure up to seven, so 666—six to the third degree—is a fitting name for the world’s gigantic political system that fails so miserably to measure up to God’s standard of perfection. The world’s political wild beast rules supreme under the name-number 666, while big politics, big religion, and big business keep that wild beast functioning as an oppressor of mankind and a persecutor of God’s people.


What does it mean to be marked on the forehead or in the right hand with the name of the wild beast? When Jehovah gave Israel the Law, he told them: “You must apply these words of mine to your heart and your soul and bind them as a sign upon your hand, and they must serve as a frontlet band between your eyes.” (Deuteronomy 11:18) This meant that the Israelites had to keep that Law constantly before them, so that it influenced all their actions and thoughts. The 144,000 anointed ones are said to have the Father’s name and that of Jesus written on their foreheads. This identifies them as belonging to Jehovah God and Jesus Christ. (Revelation 14:1) In imitation, Satan uses the demonic mark of the wild beast. Anybody engaged in everyday activities such as buying and selling is pressured to do things the way the wild beast does, as, for example, in celebrating holidays. They are expected to worship the wild beast, letting it rule their lives, so as to receive its mark.



Those who refuse to accept the mark of the wild beast have had constant problems. Starting in the 1930’s, for example, they had to fight many court battles and endure violent mobbings and other persecutions. In the totalitarian countries, they were thrown into concentration camps, where many died. Since the second world war, countless young men have suffered lengthy imprisonments, some even being tortured and killed, because of their refusal to compromise their Christian neutrality. In other lands Christians are literally unable to buy or sell; some are unable to own property; others are raped, murdered, or chased from their native land. Why? Because in good conscience they refuse to buy a political party card.*—John 17:16.

In some areas of the earth, religion is so ingrained in community life that anyone who stands for Bible truth is ostracized by family and former friends. It takes great faith to endure. (Matthew 10:36-38; 17:22) In a world where the majority worship material wealth and where dishonesty is rampant, the true Christian often has to trust implicitly in Jehovah that He will uphold him in pursuing an upright course. (Psalm 11:7; Hebrews 13:18) In a world awash with immorality, it takes great determination to remain clean and pure. Christians who fall sick are often pressured by doctors and nurses to break God’s law on the sanctity of blood; they even have to resist court orders that conflict with their faith. (Acts 15:28, 29; 1 Peter 4:3, 4) And in these days of rising unemployment, it is becoming increasingly difficult for a true Christian to avoid work that would mean compromising his integrity before God.—Micah 4:3, 5.


Yes, the world is a difficult place for those who do not have the mark of the wild beast. It is an outstanding demonstration of Jehovah’s power and blessing that the remaining ones of the seed of the woman, as well as more than six million of the great crowd, are keeping integrity despite all the pressures to break God’s laws. (Revelation 7:9) Unitedly, throughout the earth, may all of us continue to magnify Jehovah and his righteous ways, as we refuse to receive the mark of the wild beast.—Psalm 34:1-3.
Barney you know you preach Kingdom Hall doctrine, not Biblical doctrines.
 

pittsburghjoe

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If the papacy is the first beast, why don't we consider the spanish inquisition to be the second?[/Quote\]


PART ONE


I don't think the Papacy was or is the first Beast.
At Revelation 12:17 it tells us that the dragon became enraged at the woman and went to rage war with the remaining ones of her offspring. Revelation 13:1 then tells this serpent stood still upon the sand of the sea. Then then the first wild beast ascended out of the sea, having ten horns, and seven heads, and upon the horns ten diadems, but upon its seven heads blasphemous names. The first wild beast we see in Revelation 13:1 is like a leopa, but it's feet are like a bear, its mouth is as a lion. The dragon gives this beast its power and its throne and great authority.
I don't see how this first Beast can be the Papacy. Isn't it true that in the Bible in the book of Daniel the jewish prophet saw in visions four beasts. At Daniel 7:2-8 he describes four beasts coming out of the sea, the first resembling a lion, the second a bear, the third a leopard, and a fourth that was fearsome and terrible and unusually strong with ten horns. Isn't this vision in Daniel remarkably similar to what John sees in Revelation 13? In Daniel God tells us those beasts are four kings or political powers of the earth.
In another vision Daniel sees a two-horned ram that is struck down by a goat with a great horn. The Angel Gabriel explains that the two-horned ram stands for the kings of Medid and Persia and the goat with the great horn stands for the king of Greece. Gabriel goes on to prophesy that the the great horn of the goat would break and four horns will grow in its place.Daniel 8:3-8, 20-25.
This shows me that The Only True God regards the political powers of the earth as beasts. One commentator even says the beast of Revelation 13:1,2 a "brute", and adds: "We accept all the connotations that θηρίον [the·riʹon, the greek word for beast"] conveys, such as that of a cruel, destructive, frightful, ravenous monster. I think that describes the bloodstained political system by which Satan has dominated mankind. The seven heads of this first beast of Revelation 13:1 stand for six major world powers featured in bible history up to John day.(Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persian, Greece, and Rome) There was a seventh world power prophesied to appear later. Revelation 17:9, 10

Now I know there have been other world powers besides these seven- just as the wild beast John saw was made up of a body as well as of seven heads and ten horns. But the seven heads represent the seven major powers that have each in it's turn, taken the lead in oppressing God's people. In 33C.E. while Rome was ascendant, Satan used the head of the wild beast to kill the Son of God. At that time, God abandoned the faithless Jewish system of things and later , in 70 C.E., allowed Rome to execute his judgment on that nation. The true Israel of God, the congregation of anointed Christians, had been forewarned , and those in Jerusalem and in Judea had fled to safety beyond the jordan river.(Matthew 24:15,16; Galatians 6:16)

However by the end of the first century C.E.many in the early congregation had fallen away from the truth, and the true Christian wheat, "the sons of the kingdom," had been largely choked out by weeds, "the sons of the wicked one." Jesus told us this would happen. That for a long time the wheat and weeds would grow together, the world not knowing which were the weeds or wheat. But when the last days begin when Jesus invisible second presence began, anointed Christians again appeared as an organized group. During this time which is called the Lord's day, the righteous ones were due to "shine as brightly as the sun." Which means this Christian Congregation was organized to work.(Matthew 13:24-30,36-43) Of course by that time the Roman Empire was no more. But the huge British Empire, along with the United States of America, held the center of the world stage. It's this dual world power that proved to be the seventh head of the first beast of Revelation 13:1.
If anyone has a problem of the True God Jehovah or his witnesses calling nations or political powers beasts then why do these political powers today represent themselves with beasts. The British have the lion, United States the American Eagle,the Chinese the dragon.
Also why should anyone object to the Bible saying that it's Satan who gives the wild beast its great authority? God is the source of that statement. If people of the nations don't like the way the True God describes their political powers these political powers being nothing but dust, it would be better for them to court Gods favor. Gods word describes them at Isaiah 40:15,17; Psalm 2:10-12.

In the book of Daniel, fearsome beasts are described, and the numbering of their horns is to be interpreted literally. For example, the two horns on a ram represented a world empire made up of two partners, Media and Persia, while the four horns on a goat represented the four coexisting empires that grew out of Alexander the Great’s Greek empire. (Daniel 8:3, 8, 20-22) On the beast that John saw, however, the numbering of the ten horns appears to be symbolic. (Compare Daniel 7:24; Revelation 17:12.) They represent the completeness of sovereign states making up the entire political organization of Satan. All these horns are violent and aggressive, but as indicated by the seven heads, headship resides in only one world power at a time. Similarly, the ten diadems indicate that all sovereign states would exercise ruling power simultaneously with the dominant state, or world power, of that time.

The wild beast has “upon its heads blasphemous names,” making claims for itself that show great disrespect for Jehovah God and Christ Jesus. It has used the names of God and Christ as a sham to achieve its political ends; and it has played along with false religion, even allowing the clergy to take part in its political processes. For example, the House of Lords in England includes the bishops. Catholic cardinals have played prominent political roles in France and Italy, and more recently, priests have taken political office in Latin America. Governments print religious slogans, such as “IN GOD WE TRUST,” on their bank notes, and on their coins they claim divine approval for their rulers, stating, for example, that these are appointed “by the grace of God.” All of this is actually blasphemous, for it attempts to involve God in the sullied nationalistic political arena.

The wild beast comes out of “the sea,” which is a fitting symbol of the turbulent masses from which human government springs. (Isaiah 17:12, 13) This wild beast began to emerge out of the sea of turbulent humanity away back in the days of Nimrod (about the 21st century B.C.E.), when a post-Flood system of things, opposed to Jehovah, first manifested itself. (Genesis 10:8-12; 11:1-9) But only during the Lord’s day has the last one of its seven heads fully manifested itself. Notice, too, it is the dragon that “gave to the beast its power and its throne and great authority.” (Compare Luke 4:6.) The beast is Satan’s political creation among the masses of mankind. Satan is truly “the ruler of this world.”—John 12:31.


Revelation 12:6
And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

could this be related to:

colossians 3:1-3
If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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Barney you know you preach Kingdom Hall doctrine, not Biblical doctrines.

Religious leaders of Jesus day said he wasn't a faithful witness to the true God, that doesn't mean those religious leaders or people of Jesus day were correct in what they said about him. Everyone certainly is entitled to their opinion of what makes Biblical doctrine, but I understand that we all can be mistaken as to what truly makes Biblical doctrine. I don't think any individual or organization of people to be perfect or infallible. You and others just like anyone else as an individual or as an organization of people who believe what you say is Biblical doctrine can be incorrect just like anyone else. The. Jews of Jesus day had the scriptures yet the majority still didn't believe Jesus to be the Christ or the Messiah.
 

Jay Ross

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They were much closer than Kingdom Hall.

But they were just as wrong with their understanding of the OT. @BARNEY BRIGHT may be a Kingdom Hall adherent, but his understanding can be just as wrong as yours.

If and when Barney and I disagree, we agree to disagree and not try to force our views onto the other as much as it seems that you are in your conversation with Barney. As an aside he is not a political Joyce either, even if he is bright to boot. LOL.

Shalom
 

kcnalp

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But they were just as wrong with their understanding of the OT. @BARNEY BRIGHT may be a Kingdom Hall adherent, but his understanding can be just as wrong as yours.

If and when Barney and I disagree, we agree to disagree and not try to force our views onto the other as much as it seems that you are in your conversation with Barney. As an aside he is not a political Joyce either, even if he is bright to boot. LOL.

Shalom
So you're also tooting Kingdom Hall's horn! I'll stick with the Bible. Jesus is God and Hell fire is eternal.
 

Jay Ross

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So you're also tooting Kingdom Hall's horn! I'll stick with the Bible. Jesus is God and Hell fire is eternal.

What have you against other people who present arguments that differ from you "theories" on what we call "Christianity?"

If you had read my above posts, I have said that the Beasts, of Daniel 7:1-12, are wicked heavenly hosts who will be judged in Heaven at the same time as the Kings of the earth will be judged on the earth and we know that the Sixth Bowl Judgement of Revelation 16:12-16 gives us a sign which the world has now seen that was sent from the mouth of Satan, the Beast and the False Prophet, and that within about 40 years of the signs and wonders being seen by the whole world, all of the kings of the earth will be Assembled at Armageddon to be Judged and they and the judged heavenly hosts will be gathered together on the face of the earth and they will be imprisoned in a pit, i.e. the Bottomless Pit for 1,000 years, to await the time of their punishment as foretold in Isaiah 24:21-22 where the next verse points to the final battle at the end of time just before the return of Christ for the Great White Throne Room judgement of all of the peoples of the earth which we are told about in Revelation 20:11-15.

Now I believe that the Kingdom Hall hold to the Roman Empire as being the fourth segment of the Statue prophecy in Daniel 2:27-45, whereas it is my view that the fourth segment is Iraq which was given and recognised before God as having dominion over the Land of Babylon in 1926. It is also my view that the Coalition of the Willing became the Fifth Segment of the Statue Prophecy in 2003, but instead of going into the Land of Babylon to destroy the people and the land, they invaded "Babylon" to "heal" the land as Jeremiah foretold in Jeremiah 50-51, where he also foretold, along with Isaiah, that Babylon would be devastated and desolated for a period of 2 ages from around 120 BC until 1926.

Now many denominational churches hold to the same understanding as is preached in the Kingdom Hall on a Saturday that there will be a "revived Roman Empire" in the Last days, in keeping with the common understanding that the fourth Segment of the Statue Prophecy was the Roman Empire simply because the Roman Empire followed Grecian Empires in world domination of the know earth at that time.

Now if what I have written above in this is also "tooting Kingdom Hall's horn" as you have suggested, then so be it, but I know that what I have posted is in harmony with the Scriptures and what God has said will happen.

Now if you are a gentleman, then you will apologies for making such a false claim as you have in your quoted post above.

I look forward to your apology and your acknowledgement that I have only kept to what the Scriptures teach.

Shalom

PS: - Please understand that what I had posted that you had objected to was that your scriptural understanding is just as flawed as is Barney's.
 

kcnalp

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What have you against other people who present arguments that differ from you "theories" on what we call "Christianity?"
I don't have anything against them, just their extreme twisting of Scripture. They can't even understand the simplest Scriptures. Kingdom Hall has brainwashed them.
If you had read my above posts, I have said that the Beasts, of Daniel 7:1-12, are wicked heavenly hosts who will be judged in Heaven at the same time as the Kings of the earth will be judged on the earth and we know that the Sixth Bowl Judgement of Revelation 16:12-16 gives us a sign which the world has now seen that was sent from the mouth of Satan, the Beast and the False Prophet, and that within about 40 years of the signs and wonders being seen by the whole world, all of the kings of the earth will be Assembled at Armageddon to be Judged and they and the judged heavenly hosts will be gathered together on the face of the earth and they will be imprisoned in a pit, i.e. the Bottomless Pit for 1,000 years, to await the time of their punishment as foretold in Isaiah 24:21-22 where the next verse points to the final battle at the end of time just before the return of Christ for the Great White Throne Room judgement of all of the peoples of the earth which we are told about in Revelation 20:11-15.

Now I believe that the Kingdom Hall hold to the Roman Empire as being the fourth segment of the Statue prophecy in Daniel 2:27-45, whereas it is my view that the fourth segment is Iraq which was given and recognised before God as having dominion over the Land of Babylon in 1926. It is also my view that the Coalition of the Willing became the Fifth Segment of the Statue Prophecy in 2003, but instead of going into the Land of Babylon to destroy the people and the land, they invaded "Babylon" to "heal" the land as Jeremiah foretold in Jeremiah 50-51, where he also foretold, along with Isaiah, that Babylon would be devastated and desolated for a period of 2 ages from around 120 BC until 1926.

Now many denominational churches hold to the same understanding as is preached in the Kingdom Hall on a Saturday that there will be a "revived Roman Empire" in the Last days, in keeping with the common understanding that the fourth Segment of the Statue Prophecy was the Roman Empire simply because the Roman Empire followed Grecian Empires in world domination of the know earth at that time.

Now if what I have written above in this is also "tooting Kingdom Hall's horn" as you have suggested, then so be it, but I know that what I have posted is in harmony with the Scriptures and what God has said will happen.

Now if you are a gentleman, then you will apologies for making such a false claim as you have in your quoted post above.

I look forward to your apology and your acknowledgement that I have only kept to what the Scriptures teach.

Shalom

PS: - Please understand that what I had posted that you had objected to was that your scriptural understanding is just as flawed as is Barney's.
I won't apologize for anything I have said about Kingdom Hall. I feel sorry for them when they meet Jesus / God on Judgment Day.