If you found you were in the wrong faith, would you change?

[Ronald Nolette]

I told you before the two are both referred to as first and last, but they are in fact two, Yeshua is not Yahweh. I also told you the Bible does not contradict itself, so it is your understanding that is flawed not the Bible sir. As I stated I knew you would not be able to do it, as the Bible does not call all three of them Yahweh. That name is exclusive to God Himself, not His son, nor His holy spirit who is not named in scripture by the way.

I likely would help you not to use a version who alters God's name to LORD, much more confusing, and obviously has led you in the wrong direction.

No, I just don't buy into teh spin of the Watchtower.

Yo have been so corrrupted that you cannot even see it is impossible to have two first and lasts!

I showed you where Jesus is called Yahweh- you just refuse to accept it.

And as for the Holy Spirit?

2 Corinthians 3:16-18
King James Version

16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.

17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.


Maybe you should look this up in a Hebrew NT. for it reads Now Yahweh is that spirit. and where the spirit of Yahweh is, there is liberty.

Yahweh is that Holy spirit.

It is not God is a spirit like in John 4, but here Paul makes sure it is a specific particular spirit (the Holy Spirit)

YOu are still locked in the Watchtower lie that Yahweh is only one "person" and "God" can only refer to a person and not an essence . Which is why I use divine when I speak of the nature of Gopd and gods when referring to the Father.

I showed you that jesus is called Yahweh form gods Word- You are now accountable for th at truth before God and not me. You can try to defend the Watchtower teaching before me all you want- but it is god you will have to answer to.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Okay, I leave you to your beliefs. At least even you are somewhat using past tense terms to explain your views such as they are.

Read

 

[Robert Gwin]

Yes, of course, but correction is not the problem. Knowledge shall increase.

I do believe it is a problem, at the door extremely few people can state God's name when I ask, and I think in my history there is only 1 who was able to show me it in the Bible Scott. Yes knowledge has increased tremendously I might add. Since satan and aprox a third of the angels who is infinitely more intelligent than humans now reside on earth and are influencing humans, which is more evidence we are living in the actual last days, what else can we expect sir?

 

[Robert Gwin]

No, I just don't buy into teh spin of the Watchtower.

Yo have been so corrrupted that you cannot even see it is impossible to have two first and lasts!

I showed you where Jesus is called Yahweh- you just refuse to accept it.

And as for the Holy Spirit?

2 Corinthians 3:16-18
King James Version

16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.

17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.


Maybe you should look this up in a Hebrew NT. for it reads Now Yahweh is that spirit. and where the spirit of Yahweh is, there is liberty.

Yahweh is that Holy spirit.

It is not God is a spirit like in John 4, but here Paul makes sure it is a specific particular spirit (the Holy Spirit)

YOu are still locked in the Watchtower lie that Yahweh is only one "person" and "God" can only refer to a person and not an essence . Which is why I use divine when I speak of the nature of Gopd and gods when referring to the Father.

I showed you that jesus is called Yahweh form gods Word- You are now accountable for th at truth before God and not me. You can try to defend the Watchtower teaching before me all you want- but it is god you will have to answer to.

Show me any passage from the Bible that indicates Jesus is Yahweh sir, I rest my case. Your watchtower has mislead you sir, as you clearly have shown, it cannot be done. Do not feel bad however, as since it is not there no one can. I was hoping though, that through your coming to realize that you couldn't do it, you would honestly accept that fact. Honesty is where a relationship with God really lies Ron, humility plays into it very heavily as well. If one is so prideful that they will not even believe it when they prove it to themselves, what hope could they have. A Christian will admit when they are wrong, and correct it dont you think Ron?

 

[ScottA]

I do believe it is a problem, at the door extremely few people can state God's name when I ask, and I think in my history there is only 1 who was able to show me it in the Bible Scott. Yes knowledge has increased tremendously I might add. Since satan and aprox a third of the angels who is infinitely more intelligent than humans now reside on earth and are influencing humans, which is more evidence we are living in the actual last days, what else can we expect sir?

What I was referring to is the increase of what is good, of Christ increasing while we decrease and His word in spirit increasing while opinions decrease. I have not spoken out of my opinion, nor by the teachings of men (which I say for your sake), but what has been given to me.

If we were all silent in the church, if every word of God were taken away--leaving us naked, what fig leaves would still remain?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Show me any passage from the Bible that indicates Jesus is Yahweh sir, I rest my case. Your watchtower has mislead you sir, as you clearly have shown, it cannot be done. Do not feel bad however, as since it is not there no one can. I was hoping though, that through your coming to realize that you couldn't do it, you would honestly accept that fact. Honesty is where a relationship with God really lies Ron, humility plays into it very heavily as well. If one is so prideful that they will not even believe it when they prove it to themselves, what hope could they have. A Christian will admit when they are wrong, and correct it dont you think Ron?

I did and I am done- YOu are stubbornly proud! Is. 44:6

All the passages I gave you and shall not give anymore- they stand in witness against you! Keep lying to yourself.

But Jesus is boldly proclaimed Yahweh Sabaoth!

He is one with God
He is the first and last, the beginning and end! There are not two firsts! Except for maybe in Watchtower land.

I pity you for you are willingly ignorant.

Yes Christians admit when they are wrong a s I have done untol times! However in this I am not and as you are not a Christian you do not have to worery about rejejcting the biblical truth that Jesus is called Yahweh!

 

[DavidB]

Well this shall be the last time I repost these to you, so clean the wax out of your ears and listen closely.

1. Neither of us challenge that the Father is called Yahweh so that is unnecessay!

So let us look at the Son.

2.
Isaiah 44:6
King James Version

6 Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.


there are two Yahwehs spoken of here.
A) Yahweh- King of Israel
B) the King of Israels redeemer-- Yahweh of Hosts.

This should be enough! But to give more:

Isaiah 44:6
Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

Isaiah 48:12
Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last.

Yahweh , King of Israel is called first and last.

Yahweh of Hosts ( Yahweh king of Israels' redeemer--Jesus) is also called first and last.

In Revelation 1 Jesus is also called first and last 2X.

In Rev. 22 jesus again is called the firsat and the last and confirmed that from verse 13, by saying in verse 16 it was Himself who sent His angel to testify!

We both know that the Father is called almight. but the son is called almighty as well. In rev. 1 Jesus called Himself trhe alpha and omega, the first and last, the Almighty. and this is proven when John turned around to see who was talking to him.

10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;

13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.

14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;

15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.

16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.

17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:

18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

who are you going to believe? That man made organization that has woefully reinterpreted the bible, or Gods Word as he inspired it?

I’m often amazed at how far trinitarians will go to find scriptures to support their doctrine but your use of Isaiah 44:6 is out even farther.
ASV
“Thus saith Jehovah, the King of Israel, and his Redeemer, Jehovah of hosts: I am the first, and I am the last; and besides me there is no God.”
Young”s
“Thus said Jehovah, king of Israel, And his Redeemer, Jehovah of Hosts: `I [am] the first, and I the last, And besides Me there is no God.”
NWT
“This is what Jehovah says, The King of Israel and his Repurchaser, Jehovah of armies: ‘I am the first and I am the last. There is no God but me.”

Jehovah is both the King and Redeemer of Israel. One Jehovah. One God consistent with the Shema.

And yes, two individuals can easily both be the first and last. Just not to the same thing or in the same way.

 

[Robert Gwin]

What I was referring to is the increase of what is good, of Christ increasing while we decrease and His word in spirit increasing while opinions decrease. I have not spoken out of my opinion, nor by the teachings of men (which I say for your sake), but what has been given to me.

If we were all silent in the church, if every word of God were taken away--leaving us naked, what fig leaves would still remain?

Fact is Scott, if it doesn't align with Scripture, then it is opinion sir. No Christian is silenced in the Congregation, in fact we are encouraged to participate. The only ones who are silenced are those who go beyond those things written aforetime Scott.

 

[Robert Gwin]

I did and I am done- YOu are stubbornly proud! Is. 44:6

All the passages I gave you and shall not give anymore- they stand in witness against you! Keep lying to yourself.

But Jesus is boldly proclaimed Yahweh Sabaoth!

He is one with God
He is the first and last, the beginning and end! There are not two firsts! Except for maybe in Watchtower land.

I pity you for you are willingly ignorant.

Yes Christians admit when they are wrong a s I have done untol times! However in this I am not and as you are not a Christian you do not have to worery about rejejcting the biblical truth that Jesus is called Yahweh!

If you had not posted an altered version sir, you would know that Isa 44:6 point blank said Jehovah
If you don't believe me, will you believe the American Standard Version? :
Isa 44:6 Thus saith Jehovah, the King of Israel, and his Redeemer, Jehovah of hosts: I am the first, and I am the last; and besides me there is no God.

Why does your selected version not say the same sir, and do you feel that contributed to you not knowing that was referring to Jehovah? Now what will you do Ron? As Beretta would say, you have the ball sir.

 

[ScottA]

Fact is Scott, if it doesn't align with Scripture, then it is opinion sir. No Christian is silenced in the Congregation, in fact we are encouraged to participate. The only ones who are silenced are those who go beyond those things written aforetime Scott.

You are not hearing it. It is the Bride who is to be silent in the church that the Spirit only would speak--both of which are according to the scriptures, from Christ and from Paul. Opinions are of the flesh.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I’m often amazed at how far trinitarians will go to find scriptures to support their doctrine but your use of Isaiah 44:6 is out even farther.
ASV
“Thus saith Jehovah, the King of Israel, and his Redeemer, Jehovah of hosts: I am the first, and I am the last; and besides me there is no God.”
Young”s
“Thus said Jehovah, king of Israel, And his Redeemer, Jehovah of Hosts: `I [am] the first, and I the last, And besides Me there is no God.”
NWT
“This is what Jehovah says, The King of Israel and his Repurchaser, Jehovah of armies: ‘I am the first and I am the last. There is no God but me.”

Jehovah is both the King and Redeemer of Israel. One Jehovah. One God consistent with the Shema.

And yes, two individuals can easily both be the first and last. Just not to the same thing or in the same way.

So you write Jesus is named Yahweh in Is. 44 (yahweh of Armies) but deny He is called Yahweh! And even in the twisted NW mistranslation it shows 2 people speaking! Yahweh King of Israel, and King Yahweh's redeemer- Yahweh of Hosts. If you do nto see that you need to go back to first grade grammar and relearn it.

And biblically -no there cannot be two first and lasts! In Is. 44:6 Jesus as Yahweh of hosts declared Himself the first and last along with His Father. JOhn as a good jewish boy would know that and jesus is simply repreating what He said in Isaih.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

If you had not posted an altered version sir, you would know that Isa 44:6 point blank said Jehovah
If you don't believe me, will you believe the American Standard Version? :
Isa 44:6 Thus saith Jehovah, the King of Israel, and his Redeemer, Jehovah of hosts: I am the first, and I am the last; and besides me there is no God.

Why does your selected version not say the same sir, and do you feel that contributed to you not knowing that was referring to Jehovah? Now what will you do Ron? As Beretta would say, you have the ball sir.

they do sir. what you refuse to accept either because you have been dumbed down or are willingly ignorant is that two Yahwehs are speaking in Isaiah!

Yahweh #1 The king of Israel
Yahweh #2 His redeemr Yahweh of Sabaoth.

why you constantly refuse to see that is sad.

 

[Robert Gwin]

You are not hearing it. It is the Bride who is to be silent in the church that the Spirit only would speak--both of which are according to the scriptures, from Christ and from Paul. Opinions are of the flesh.

Hearing perhaps, getting no way. The Bride is the covenanted congregation Scott.

 

[Robert Gwin]

they do sir. what you refuse to accept either because you have been dumbed down or are willingly ignorant is that two Yahwehs are speaking in Isaiah!

Yahweh #1 The king of Israel
Yahweh #2 His redeemr Yahweh of Sabaoth.

why you constantly refuse to see that is sad.

You are definitely correct, I do not see it. There is not 2 Yahwehs. Jehovah our God is one Jehovah. Silly verse, but that is the way it is rendered Ron. Personally I would have been inclined to alter His name to God in the secondary.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

You are definitely correct, I do not see it. There is not 2 Yahwehs. Jehovah our God is one Jehovah. Silly verse, but that is the way it is rendered Ron. Personally I would have been inclined to alter His name to God in the secondary.

Well personally- you have no business deciding what god inspired or not! He inspired it, it can only be read as two Yahwehs speaking as I have repeatedly sahowe you. don't believe me. Bring it to a neutral English grammar teacher and they will show you!

Even better, bring it to a Hebrew speaking person and they will show you from the original.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Well personally- you have no business deciding what god inspired or not! He inspired it, it can only be read as two Yahwehs speaking as I have repeatedly sahowe you. don't believe me. Bring it to a neutral English grammar teacher and they will show you!

Even better, bring it to a Hebrew speaking person and they will show you from the original.

I say there is one Jehovah, you say two, time will tell Ronald. Since you were unable to show it by Scripture, might as well let time tell sir.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I say there is one Jehovah, you say two, time will tell Ronald. Since you were unable to show it by Scripture, might as well let time tell sir.

See you lie about my words! There is one Yahweh, manifested in three entities- Father son and Spirit. The bible tell syou that, you just refuse to dare think agains t the Watchtower.

 

[Robert Gwin]

See you lie about my words! There is one Yahweh, manifested in three entities- Father son and Spirit. The bible tell syou that, you just refuse to dare think agains t the Watchtower.

I do my absolute utmost no to lie Ron, don't particularly care for it. You in fact put in writing: As the bible openly, clearly and unambiguously declares:
The Father is called Yahweh
The Son is called Yahweh
The spirit is called Yahweh!

Your watchtower is deceiving you sir, there is only one Jehovah, and of course one Jesus. The beginning of everlasting life is coming to know them sir Jn 17:3

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I do my absolute utmost no to lie Ron, don't particularly care for it. You in fact put in writing: As the bible openly, clearly and unambiguously declares:
The Father is called Yahweh
The Son is called Yahweh
The spirit is called Yahweh!

Your watchtower is deceiving you sir, there is only one Jehovah, and of course one Jesus. The beginning of everlasting life is coming to know them sir Jn 17:3

Well the bible does clearly call all three Yahweh. You just refuse to accept it!

 

[Robert Gwin]

Well the bible does clearly call all three Yahweh. You just refuse to accept it!

I accept the Bible sir, not opinion. You stated it, but as I stated, it is not found in the Bible. Yahweh applies exclusively to God Himself Ron, and that name is Jehovah in English, it appears that you are the one who refuses to accept it. At any rate the evidences of our conversations are in writing here, some may even agree with you, but the Bible is in writing too sir.