Imputation is based on the Old Testament

[Episkopos]

If you don't mind, rabbi, I want Stun to think for herself, to search the scriptures for herself.

Shalom
J.

Just let me know when I can post on my own thread. Thanks in advance!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Sorry, my funny bone got hit.

 

[Lizbeth]

Where is the faith that sanctifies us found? It is found only by entering INTO Christ. This is above the justification of men based on human faith and works. This is a supernatural faith that causes us to walk in Zion as Jesus walked. Even the smallest amount of this faith can move mountains. It translates us into the kingdom of His dear Son...right now!

But brother....that is what has happened with most evangelical believers.....we were apprehended by God and born of the spirit, quickened by the Spirit and seeing God face to face as He was revealed to our hearts. Not just knowing Him by the hearing of the ear and a mental belief, or human choice, but it is the Lord by His Spirit who has done this miraculous work in our lives in revealing Christ/God and the gospel to us. We are not following Him out of human faith, but by the faith not of our own that God gave us when we received Christ, His spirit within us when we were born again.

Unless I'm mistaken, it seems as though the reason there has been so much confusion and sense of talking past each other is because you have been talking about beginning with a nominal kind of human belief and righteousness and going on to the born again experience from there, whereas evangelical believers are beginning with the experience of being born again and going on from that foundation.

 

[Episkopos]

But brother....that is what has happened with most evangelical believers.....we were apprehended by God and born of the spirit, quickened by the Spirit and seeing God face to face as He was revealed to our hearts. Not just knowing Him by the hearing of the ear and a mental belief, or human choice, but it is the Lord by His Spirit who has done this miraculous work in our lives in revealing Christ/God and the gospel to us. We are not following Him out of human faith, but by the faith not of our own that God gave us when we received Christ, His spirit within us when we were born again.

Unless I'm mistaken, it seems as though the reason there has been so much confusion and sense of talking past each other is because you have been talking about beginning with a nominal kind of human belief and righteousness and going on to the born again experience from there, whereas evangelical believers are beginning with the experience of being born again and going on from that foundation.

Actually, you have the scale wrong. We are born again into the wilderness walk. You haven't been paying particular attention to what I've been saying.

We are not imputed a higher walk for walking in the wilderness in our own power. There is a higher calling than that...that few will experience. Listen to Jesus if you won't listen to me.

So then the confusion is trying to pretend you know what Paul is talking about when he says...as many as be perfect...let us walk by the same rule.

The evangelical two-step is to assume one's own place into the beloved. Nobody is going to accuse the modern religious church of being humble.

It is God who translates people into the higher walk in resurrection life. ...no need for religious assumptions and presumptions.

Being born again is only a sample of initial grace...the first talent...the first sample of oil.

But the full product costs us everything.

I have stated this probably a dozen times, even during the short time you have been on the forum. I refer you to the words of Jesus...which you can read for yourself.

Peace.

 

[Lizbeth]

T

Actually, you have the scale wrong. We are born again into the wilderness walk. You haven't been paying particular attention to what I've been saying.

We are not imputed a higher walk for walking in the wilderness in our own power. There is a higher calling than that...that few will experience. Listen to Jesus if you won't listen to me.

So then the confusion is trying to pretend you know what Paul is talking about when he says...as many as be perfect...let us walk by the same rule.

The evangelical two-step is to assume one's own place into the beloved. Nobody is going to accuse the modern religious church of being humble.

It is God who translates people into the higher walk in resurrection life. ...no need for religious assumptions and presumptions.

Being born again is only a sample of initial grace...the first talent...the first sample of oil.

But the full product costs us everything.

I have stated this probably a dozen times, even during the short time you have been on the forum. I refer you to the words of Jesus...which you can read for yourself.

Peace.

The Spirit witnesses to our spirit that we are the children of God. It was not an emotional or mental change of mind, but a spiritual event....a miracle, whereby we receive by His Spirit, the faith that is not of our own. Christ IN us the HOPE of glory. But I do believe in holiness and going on to perfection....the allegory of entering the Promised Land, of which the earnest of the Spirit is the betrothal covenant and bride price for the future marriage/consummation, which will cost us everything...we have to leave everything behind so to speak, to 'marry' the bridegroom....that is the bride's preparation, to "sell" all that we have and are to buy the pearl/treasure that is hidden in the field of our being.

Just have been so confused with what you are saying about what has transpired with being born again in the meantime and trying to get to the bottom of the confusion. Almost like.....we're going in the same direction generally but not quite on the same track, kind of parallel tracks, that maybe intersect at some points, but not entirely the same.

 

[Johann]

T

The Spirit witnesses to our spirit that we are the children of God. It was not an emotional or mental change of mind, but a spiritual event....a miracle, whereby we receive by His Spirit, the faith that is not of our own. Christ IN us the HOPE of glory. But I do believe in holiness and going on to perfection....the allegory of entering the Promised Land, of which the earnest of the Spirit is the betrothal covenant and bride price for the future marriage/consummation, which will cost us everything...we have to leave everything behind so to speak, to 'marry' the bridegroom....that is the bride's preparation, to "sell" all that we have and are to buy the pearl/treasure that is hidden in the field of our being.

Just have been so confused with what you are saying about what has transpired with being born again in the meantime and trying to get to the bottom of the confusion. Almost like.....we're going in the same direction generally but not quite on the same track, kind of parallel tracks, that maybe intersect at some points, but not entirely the same.

You have the "scale" wrong, as per epi sister, you see, it starts from G major, A major...going to C major, with a couple of miner chords, with a Pentatonic "scale"....what are we talking about? A guitar.

J.

 

[Johann]

Just let me know when I can post on my own thread. Thanks in advance!

What "scale" are you on....B flat, or E minor?

 

[Johann]

You have the "scale" wrong, as per epi sister, you see, it starts from G major, A major...going to C major, with a couple of miner chords, with a Pentatonic "scale"....what are we talking about? A guitar.

J.

Heb_5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

Heb_6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

 

[Lizbeth]

You have the "scale" wrong, as per epi sister, you see, it starts from G major, A major...going to C major, with a couple of miner chords, with a Pentatonic "scale"....what are we talking about? A guitar.

J.

Well all I know is that when we were born again something sure happened on a GRAND scale! In a MAJOR key!

 

[Lizbeth]

Heb_5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

Heb_6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

Amen, beautiful verses, all of them!

And notice that Hebrews 6 goes on to warn against falling away...."FOR if...." Failing to grow and be going on to perfection can lead to falling away. Growing in the Lord is imperative! and we only grow as we pay the price to follow/obey Him!

 

[Johann]

Well all I know is that when we were born again something sure happened on a GRAND scale! In a MAJOR key!

Heck, that put a big smile on my face!
J.

 

[Johann]

Amen, beautiful verses, all of them!

And notice that Hebrews 6 goes on to warn against falling away...."FOR if...." Failing to grow and be going on to perfection can lead to falling away. Growing in the Lord is imperative! and we only grow as we pay the price to follow/obey Him!

Eph_4:15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

1Pe_2:2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:

2Pe_3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

Mat 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Shalom
J.

 

[Lizbeth]

Heck, that put a big smile in my face!
J.

I know you men like to tease each other....but keep in mind when you go fishing it's sometimes wise to use a lure of some kind. On one of Epi's music videos, in the comments, a fellow musician from ISRAEL was asking to meet up with Epi for a jam session. The Lord works in mysterious ways!

 

[Episkopos]

What "scale" are you on....B flat, or E minor?

Actually its "G sus" "G sus" ALL "G sus".

 

[Johann]

Actually its "G sus" "G sus" ALL "G sus".

Oh, "Jee-sus"

 

[Episkopos]

T

The Spirit witnesses to our spirit that we are the children of God. It was not an emotional or mental change of mind, but a spiritual event....a miracle, whereby we receive by His Spirit, the faith that is not of our own. Christ IN us the HOPE of glory.

An inside work of God...yes. And now there is a template of Christ in our hearts that we are to go to God for to be filled. We are to be conformed to Christ in the inner man.

I think too often I will say things that I put a LOT of time and seeking into....but without that same depth of seeking and prayer...it just bounces off people...it doesn't sink in.

For instance there is the "earnest" of the Spirit...the "aravon". The root (It's a Hebrew word) of aravon is aravah...which means "desert".

Do a study on "aravon" and "aravah"

We are born again INTO THE DESERT walk....Read Exodus.

But I do believe in holiness and going on to perfection....the allegory of entering the Promised Land, of which the earnest of the Spirit is the betrothal covenant and bride price for the future marriage/consummation, which will cost us everything...we have to leave everything behind so to speak, to 'marry' the bridegroom....that is the bride's preparation, to "sell" all that we have and are to buy the pearl/treasure that is hidden in the field of our being.

Exactly. Where we differ is the scale of that in this life. When we seek with ALL out hearts...God immediately takes us up to be where He is...to walk exactly like Jesus...in His resurrection life. In Him is no sin.

Just have been so confused with what you are saying about what has transpired with being born again in the meantime and trying to get to the bottom of the confusion. Almost like.....we're going in the same direction generally but not quite on the same track, kind of parallel tracks, that maybe intersect at some points, but not entirely the same.

As I said before...you need to learn about righteousness. Try reading the Psalms through...VERY slowly...until you begin to see how David saw God.

We are talking on different levels.

The bible speaks of a higher walk than what basically no modern Christian understands. A walk in the light as He is in the light.

 

[Wrangler]

The bible speaks of a higher walk than what basically no modern Christian understands.

<sigh> Still advocating mystical gnosticism. Given that no modern Christian understands, what is it that you are expounding? A double standard, where you alone know the secret of this fabled 'higher walk.'

The elitism does not bring glory to God.

 

[Episkopos]

<sigh> Still advocating mystical gnosticism. Given that no modern Christian understands, what is it that you are expounding? A double standard, where you alone know the secret of this fabled 'higher walk.'

The elitism does not bring glory to God.

What doesn't bring glory to God is the modern American style dogmatic religion. It is based on self and the pursuit of personal happiness.

You aren't seeing the irony in your statement. Gnosticism is about saving knowledge...like modern evangelicals who believe they are saved by believing they are....by reading themselves into the bible.

What I am speaking of is actual power to walk beyond sin. That is apostolic doctrine...a doctrine that is no longer understood...because an easy and early exit from the truth has been preached for so long.

What is missing is the sheer scale of the gospel...as salvation from sin...the liberation of the captives from the prison of self...to walk as Jesus walked.

To call that Gnosticism is based on ignorance.

People perish for lack of ACTUAL knowledge. Gnosticism is based on what one BELIEVES is special knowledge...but it is without power over sin. Gostics believe they are saved by their knowledge WHILE they sin...IOW no power over sin. That is evangelicalism in a nutshell.

 

[Wrangler]

What doesn't bring glory to God is the modern American style dogmatic religion.

I see. You judged yourself off the hook of humility. You got that special knowledge going for ya. Sad. Very sad, my friend.

 

[Episkopos]

I see. You judged yourself off the hook of humility. You got that special knowledge going for ya. Sad. Very sad, my friend.

You are a funny one. Seeing you have yourself reached the pinnacle of all understanding, in your own estimation, you must then assume that anything beyond your understanding must needs be suspect...or downright evil. Sure, ok. Continue as you have been.