Imputation is based on the Old Testament

[The Learner]

Matthew 22:32
God said, ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’ So they were not still dead, because he is the God only of living people.”

 

[The Learner]

Romans 4
Easy-to-Read Version
The Example of Abraham
4 So what can we say about Abraham, the father of our people? What did he learn about faith? 2 If Abraham was made right by the things he did, he had a reason to boast about himself. But God knew different. 3 That’s why the Scriptures say, “Abraham believed God, and because of this he was accepted as one who is right with God.”[a]

4 When people work, their pay is not given to them as a gift. They earn the pay they get. 5 But people cannot do any work that will make them right with God. So they must trust in him. Then he accepts their faith, and that makes them right with him. He is the one who makes even evil people right. 6 David said the same thing when he was talking about the blessing people have when God accepts them as good without looking at what they have done:

7 “It is a great blessing
when people are forgiven for the wrongs they have done,
when their sins are erased!
8 It is a great blessing when the Lord accepts people
as if they are without sin!”

9 Is this blessing only for those who are circumcised? Or is it also for those who are not circumcised? We have already said that it was because of Abraham’s faith that he was accepted as one who is right with God. 10 So how did this happen? Did God accept Abraham before or after he was circumcised? God accepted him before his circumcision. 11 Abraham was circumcised later to show that God accepted him. His circumcision was proof that he was right with God through faith before he was circumcised. So Abraham is the father of all those who believe but are not circumcised. They believe and are accepted as people who are right with God. 12 And Abraham is also the father of those who have been circumcised. But it is not their circumcision that makes him their father. He is their father only if they live following the faith that our father Abraham had before he was circumcised.

God’s Promise Received Through Faith
13 Abraham and his descendants received the promise that they would get the whole world. But Abraham did not receive that promise because he followed the law. He received that promise because he was right with God through his faith. 14 If people could get God’s promise by following the law, then faith is worthless. And God’s promise to Abraham is worthless, 15 because the law can only bring God’s anger on those who disobey it. But if there is no law, then there is nothing to disobey.

16 So people get what God promised by having faith. This happens so that the promise can be a free gift. And if the promise is a free gift, then all of Abraham’s people will get that promise. The promise is not just for those who live under the Law of Moses. It is for all who live with faith as Abraham did. He is the father of us all. 17 As the Scriptures say, “I have made you a father of many nations.” This is true before God, the one Abraham believed—the God who gives life to the dead and speaks of things that don’t yet exist as if they are real.

18 There was no hope that Abraham would have children, but Abraham believed God and continued to hope. And that is why he became the father of many nations. As God told him, “You will have many descendants.”[c] 19 Abraham was almost a hundred years old, so he was past the age for having children. Also, Sarah could not have children. Abraham was well aware of this, but his faith in God never became weak. 20 He never doubted that God would do what he promised. He never stopped believing. In fact, he grew stronger in his faith and just praised God. 21 Abraham felt sure that God was able to do what he promised. 22 So that’s why “he was accepted as one who is right with God.”[d] 23 These words (“he was accepted”) were written not only for Abraham. 24 They were also written for us. God will also accept us because we believe. We believe in the one who raised Jesus our Lord from death. 25 Jesus was handed over to die for our sins, and he was raised from death to make us right with God.

Footnotes
Romans 4:3 Quote from Gen. 15:6.
Romans 4:17 Quote from Gen. 17:5.
Romans 4:18 Quote from Gen. 15:5.
Romans 4:22 Quote from Gen. 15:6.

 

[The Learner]

1. Romans 9:7
   And only some of Abraham’s descendants are true children of Abraham. This is what God said to Abraham: “Your true descendants will be those who come through Isaac.”
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
2. Romans 9:8
   This means that not all of Abraham’s descendants are God’s true children. Abraham’s true children are those who become God’s children because of the promise he made to Abraham.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
3. Romans 11:1
   

   God Has Not Forgotten His People​

   So I ask, “Did God force his people to leave him?” Of course not. I myself am an Israelite. I am from the family of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
4. 2 Corinthians 11:22
   Are those people Hebrews? So am I. Are they Israelites? So am I. Are they from Abraham’s family? So am I.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
5. Galatians 3:6
   The Scriptures say the same thing about Abraham. “Abrahambelieved God, and because of this faith he was accepted as one who is right with God.”
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
6. Galatians 3:7
   So you should know that the true children of Abrahamare those who have faith.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
7. Galatians 3:8
   The Scriptures told what would happen in the future. These writings said that God would make the non-Jewish people right through their faith. God told this Good News to Abraham before it happened. God said to Abraham, “I will use you to bless all the people on earth.”
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
8. Galatians 3:9
   Abraham believed this, and because he believed, he was blessed. All people who believe are blessed the same as Abrahamwas.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
9. Galatians 3:14
   Because of what Jesus Christ did, the blessing God promised to Abrahamwas given to all people. Christ died so that by believing in him we could have the Spirit that God promised.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
10. Galatians 3:16
    God made promises to Abrahamand his Descendant. The Scripture does not say, “and to your descendants.” That would mean many people. But it says, “and to your Descendant.” That means only one, and that one is Christ.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
11. Galatians 3:17
    This is what I mean: The agreement that God gave to Abrahamwas made official long before the law came. The law came 430 years later. So the law could not take away the agreement and change God’s promise.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
12. Galatians 3:18
    Can following the law give us the blessing God promised? If we could receive it by following the law, then it would not be God’s promise that brings it to us. But God freely gave his blessings to Abrahamthrough the promise God made.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
13. Galatians 3:19
    So what was the law for? The law was given to show the wrong things people do. The law would continue until the special Descendant of Abrahamcame. This is the Descendant mentioned in the promise, which came directly from God. But the law was given through angels, and the angels used Moses as a mediator to give the law to the people.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
14. Galatians 3:29
    You belong to Christ, so you are Abraham’s descendants. You get all of God’s blessings because of the promise that God made to Abraham.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
15. Galatians 4:22
    The Scriptures say that Abrahamhad two sons. The mother of one son was a slave woman, and the mother of the other son was a free woman.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

 

[The Learner]

• Galatians 4:23
  Abraham’s son from the slave woman was born in the normal human way. But the son from the free woman was born because of the promise God made to Abraham.
  In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
• Galatians 4:29
  But the other son of Abraham, who was born in the normal way, caused trouble for the one who was born by the power of the Spirit. It is the same today.
  In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
• Hebrews 2:16
  Clearly, it is not angels that Jesus helps. He helps the people who are from Abraham.

 

[The Learner]

1. Hebrews 11:8
2. God called Abraham to travel to another place that he promised to give him. Abrahamdid not know where that other place was. But he obeyed God and started traveling because he had faith.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
3. Hebrews 11:9
   Abrahamlived in the country that God promised to give him. He lived there like a visitor who did not belong. He did this because he had faith. He lived in tents with Isaac and Jacob, who also received the same promise from God.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
4. Hebrews 11:10
   Abrahamwas waiting for the city that has real foundations. He was waiting for the city that is planned and built by God.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
5. Hebrews 11:11
   Sarah was not able to have children, and Abrahamwas too old. But he had faith in God, trusting him to do what he promised. And so God made them able to have children.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
6. Hebrews 11:12
   Abrahamwas so old he was almost dead. But from that one man came as many descendants as there are stars in the sky. So many people came from him that they are like grains of sand on the seashore.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
7. Hebrews 11:17-18
   God tested Abraham’s faith. God told him to offer Isaac as a sacrifice. Abraham obeyed because he had faith. He already had the promises from God. And God had already said to him, “It is through Isaac that your descendants will come.” But Abrahamwas ready to offer his only son. He did this because he had faith.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
8. Hebrews 11:19
   He believed that God could raise people from death. And really, when God stopped Abrahamfrom killing Isaac, it was as if he got him back from death.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
9. James 2:21
   Our father Abrahamwas made right with God by what he did. He offered his son Isaac to God on the altar.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
10. James 2:22
    So you see that Abraham’s faith and what he did worked together. His faith was made perfect by what he did.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
11. James 2:23
    This shows the full meaning of the Scriptures that say, “Abraham believed God, and because of this faith he was accepted as one who is right with God.” Abrahamwas called “God’s friend.”
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
12. 1 Peter 3:6
    I am talking about women like Sarah. She obeyed Abraham, her husband, and called him her master. And you women are true children of Sarah if you always do what is right and are not afraid.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

 

[The Learner]

• Hebrews 6:13
  God made a promise to Abraham. And there is no one greater than God, so he made the promise with an oath in his own name—an oath that he would do what he promised.
  In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
• Hebrews 6:15
  Abrahamwaited patiently for this to happen, and later he received what God promised.
  In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
• Hebrews 7:1
  

  The Priest Melchizedek​

  Melchizedek was the king of Salem and a priest for God the Most High. He met Abraham when Abrahamwas coming back after defeating the kings. That day Melchizedek blessed him.
  In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
• Hebrews 7:2
  Then Abrahamgave him a tenth of everything he had. The name Melchizedek, king of Salem, has two meanings. First, Melchizedek means “king of justice.” And “king of Salem” means “king of peace.”
  In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
• Hebrews 7:4
  You can see that Melchizedek was very great. Abraham, our great ancestor, gave him a tenth of everything he won in battle.
  In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
• Hebrews 7:5
  Now the law says that those from the tribe of Levi who become priests must get a tenth from their own people, even though they and their people are both from the family of Abraham.
  In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
• Hebrews 7:6
  Melchizedek was not even from the tribe of Levi, but Abraham gave him a tenth of what he had. And Melchizedek blessed Abraham—the one who had God’s promises.
  In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
• Hebrews 7:8
  Those priests get a tenth, but they are only men who live and then die. But Melchizedek, who got a tenth from Abraham, continues to live, as the Scriptures say.
  In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
• Hebrews 7:9
  Now those from the family of Levi are the ones who get a tenth from the people. But we can say that when Abrahampaid Melchizedek a tenth, then Levi also paid it.
  In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
• Hebrews 7:10
  Levi was not yet born, but he already existed in his ancestor Abrahamwhen Melchizedek met him.
  In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

 

[The Learner]

2 Peter 1

Easy-to-Read Version

​

1 Greetings from Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ.
To all of you who share in the same valuable faith that we have. This faith was given to us because our God and Savior Jesus Christ always does what is good and right.
2 Grace and peace be given to you more and more, because now you know God and Jesus our Lord.

God Has Given Us Everything We Need​

3 Jesus has the power of God. And his power has given us everything we need to live a life devoted to God. We have these things because we know him. Jesus chose us by his glory and goodness, 4 through which he also gave us the very great and rich gifts that he promised us. With these gifts you can share in being like God. And so you will escape the ruin that comes to people in the world because of the evil things they want.
5 Because you have these blessings, do all you can to add to your life these things: to your faith add goodness; to your goodness add knowledge; 6 to your knowledge add self-control; to your self-control add patience; to your patience add devotion to God; 7 to your devotion add kindness toward your brothers and sisters in Christ, and to this kindness add love. 8 If all these things are in you and growing, you will never fail to be useful to God. You will produce the kind of fruit that should come from your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 But those who don’t grow in these blessings are blind. They cannot see clearly what they have. They have forgotten that they were cleansed from their past sins.
10 My brothers and sisters, God called you and chose you to be his. Do your best to live in a way that shows you really are God’s called and chosen people. If you do all this, you will never fall. 11 And you will be given a very great welcome into the kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, a kingdom that never ends.
12 You already know these things. You are very strong in the truth you have. But I am always going to help you remember them. 13 While I am still living here on earth, I think it is right for me to remind you of them. 14 I know that I must soon leave this body. Our Lord Jesus Christ has shown me that. 15 I will try my best to make sure you remember these things even after I am gone.

We Saw Christ’s Glory​

16 We told you about the power of our Lord Jesus Christ. We told you about his coming. The things we told you were not just clever stories that people invented. No, we saw the greatness of Jesus with our own eyes. 17 Jesus heard the voice of the great and glorious God. That was when he received honor and glory from God the Father. The voice said, “This is my Son, the one I love. I am very pleased with him.” 18 And we heard that voice. It came from heaven while we were with Jesus on the holy mountain.[a]
19 This makes us more sure about what the prophets said. And it is good for you to follow closely what they said, which is like a light shining in a dark place. You have that light until the day begins and the morning star brings new light to your minds. 20 Most important of all, you must understand this: No prophecy in the Scriptures comes from the prophet’s own understanding. 21 No prophecy ever came from what some person wanted to say. But people were led by the Holy Spirit and spoke words from God.

Footnotes​

1. 2 Peter 1:18 This event is described in the Gospels. See Mt. 17:1-8; Mk. 9:2-8; Lk. 9:28-36.

 

[The Learner]

Looking at our Catholic Friends,

"
The pseudo-Catholic view is wrong because the Catholic Church rejects semi-Pelagianism–the belief God does half and we do half–as forcefully as any Protestant church.

The great Thomist Garrigou-Lagrange (quoted in Louis Bouyer’s The Spirit and Forms of Protestantism, p. 53) summarized the Catholic position when he observed that “in the work of salvation all is from God, including our own co-operation, in the sense that we cannot distinguish a part as exclusively ours, which does not come from the author of all good.”

From the Catholic point of view, God initiates our salvation by his grace, but he doesn’t stop there. Our works of obedience which follow the start of God’s salvific action in us are also the work of grace.

This is what Paul means in Philippians 2:12-13 when he says we’re to work out our salvation and yet reminds us that “it is God who, for his good purpose, works in you both to desire and to work.” Or as Augustine put it, when God rewards our merits or works, he crowns his own gifts to us.

The common Fundamentalist use of Matthew 5:20 also misses the mark. Jesus isn’t contrasting imputed righteousness with the righteousness of good works. He’s contrasting the external righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees with the interior righteousness that proceeds from the heart and which is to characterize his followers. Jesus is telling his disciples how to be righteous–not how to look righteous.

This is illustrated in Matthew 5 in Christ’s teaching about anger and murder (Matt. 5:21-26), lust and adultery (Matt. 5:27-32), oaths and truth telling (Matt. 5:33-37), retaliation (Matt. 5:38-42), and the love of enemies (Matt. 5:43-48). In each of these areas, the concern is for internal righteousness and sanctity surpassing external performance.

The same principle applies to Christ’s treatment of the three characteristic forms of Jewish piety in Matthew 6:1-18: almsgiving, prayer, and fasting. Jesus doesn’t deny these are righteous deeds or good works. His concern is that such acts be done authentically–that is, because of the love of God, not merely “that people may see them” (Matt. 6:1).

Although Christ is interested in heartfelt obedience rather than mere external performance, nowhere does he say external performance is unimportant or that genuine works of obedience shouldn’t be considered righteous deeds before God.

In fact, his warning to “take care not to perform righteous deeds in order that people may see” suggests just the opposite, as do his admonition in Matthew 6:33 to “seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness” and his teaching that we must do the will of the Father to enter the kingdom (Matt. 7:21).

How, then, does Jesus teach his followers to surpass the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees? By obeying God from the heart, not simply with the lips.

This is not some sort of imputed, extrinsic, “looking-at-the-believer-through-Jesus-colored-glasses” righteousness. No, it’s the result of a grace-created interior transformation in which believers can grow through authentic obedience (1 John 3:7) as true children of God (Matt. 5:45)."

Righteousness Done Right

In Matthew 5:20 Christ instructs his followers, R...

www.catholic.com

 

[The Learner]

The overlooked verse,

Ephesians 2:10
Easy-to-Read Version
10 God has made us what we are. In Christ Jesus, God made us new people so that we would spend our lives doing the good things he had already planned for us to do.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

What works for you...being a good hearted person...may well be very damaging for another. That's how bad doctrines get perpetuated. The Reformation helped the few and condemned the many. It is like the healthy being able to survive on a bad diet...whereas the immune-compromised die because of it. We have to consider others in our doctrines, not just what seems to work for us.

Wow…yes. I had the exact opposite problem of Lizbeth. I never WAS good hearted or kind in the natural as some people are. So I just assumed everyone was like me.(I’m speaking in the natural, a comparison of men APART from God.)
So as you say, what works for her didn’t work for me. But this is why when I heard you explain righteousness and holiness, even before I firmly understood it I knew it was right and rejoiced that there was hope of glory. I didn’t understand righteousness and I always assumed if someone did something good, they had really ugly or ridiculous motives behind it. So I saw everything as fake, insincere, insufficient, imperfect. (Myself as WELL as others.) You could say… I imputed my insincerity and fakeness to others. Even after I received the earnest/down payment I did this.

But…to be how I was, it can go very bad as well I think. You could be weaned from the flesh as I was (two years in April I think) and make the mistake of 1. thinking it’s holiness and 2. disparaging the righteous (since you never thought they even existed since you imputed your own badness onto them). In which case, you have NEITHER and understand neither and, ouch, are in danger of losing what little you have…

Yes, it’s crucial to understand the difference. You have to not do unnecessary harm to either. As you say, there are ditches on both sides of a road.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

If the way into life is narrow, and many try but few are able to enter in...where does that leave the many who believe they have been imputed to be on the same level as God in righteousness...without having entered in?

It depends on if, (in spite of the hideous doctrine), they stay humble. It is very possible to say you believe one thing but to do the other. Like the one who said no to his father but did the opposite. Which goes back to what you said recently somewhere - wrong in doctrine, right in practice. Oh I remember, I think it was in your book. In fact I think it was maybe the opening line…lol.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

God's righteousness is not in us but ON us. It is a covering anointing.

The Blood.

It was:
Blood on doorposts while in bondage/loved us while we were sinners(what you said above)
Freed from the world/pharoah
Leap into trust/through the sea (walk on water but liable to sink like the disciple who began to sink)
Enter wilderness for testing and growth (learning the obedience of trust/faith and learning to not turn back to bondage/world
Entering His rest/abundance in this life and in next

A rough outline anyway…

God does one thing SO THAT we may/might the next thing SO THAT we may/might the next thing SO THAT….
The insidious thing that has happened is…

 

[Episkopos]

Wow…yes. I had the exact opposite problem of Lizbeth. I never WAS good hearted or kind in the natural as some people are. So I just assumed everyone was like me.(I’m speaking in the natural, a comparison of men APART from God.)
So as you say, what works for her didn’t work for me. But this is why when I heard you explain righteousness and holiness, even before I firmly understood it I knew it was right and rejoiced that there was hope of glory. I didn’t understand righteousness and I always assumed if someone did something good, they had really ugly or ridiculous motives behind it. So I saw everything as fake, insincere, insufficient, imperfect. (Myself as WELL as others.) You could say… I imputed my insincerity and fakeness to others. Even after I received the earnest/down payment I did this.

But…to be how I was, it can go very bad as well I think. You could be weaned from the flesh as I was (two years in April I think) and make the mistake of 1. thinking it’s holiness and 2. disparaging the righteous (since you never thought they even existed since you imputed your own badness onto them). In which case, you have NEITHER and understand neither and, ouch, are in danger of losing what little you have…

Yes, it’s crucial to understand the difference. You have to not do unnecessary harm to either. As you say, there are ditches on both sides of a road.

Wow! Your understanding is deepening! God's ways are such that you can always get to where He is from where you are!

 

[Lizbeth]

There seems to be quite a bit of confusion here....

Jesus said, "Why do you call me good? There is no one good but God." Goodness, humility and all other virtues are fruits of Christ's SPIRIT within. NOT OF OUR OWN that no man may boast. All glory belongs to Jesus and that is why we will all lay our crowns at His feet, because He alone is worthy.

Truth doesn't alter depending on the listener. It's the same truth; that works for all of us. If something isn't true, it doesn't work for anyone, it only leads us astray. The truth is the same (unchangeable - no shadow of turning) for everyone, and it is supposed to alter US. We fall on the rock and get broken, ie, molded to the shape of the rock, ouch. The rock doesn't change to conform to the listener.

We've been talking in this thread about imputed righteousness and what happens when we come to faith in Christ. Of course after that we are supposed to work OUT what has been given to us and placed within us as a free gift, with fear and trembling. I guess everyone has their own way to describe it, but when we come to faith we are conscripted into a WAR at that point.....we begin to fight the good fight of faith against the flesh, worldliness, the devil, false teachings, etc. We generally have a honeymoon period with the Lord of wine and roses, but after that, oh my, He didn't promise us a rose garden in this life, but a war. (This is why in the OT, a soldier was to spend one year with his new bride for her sake, and only after that was he sent to war.) We couldn't grow without warring and going to the slaughter like lambs...it's through breaking of our stubborn flesh that virtues of HIS nature within begin to work OUT of us. The veil of our flesh rent in twain as Jesus set the example, and as we walk our way through that, rending our hearts (inwardly), not just our garments (outward behaviour).

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Jesus said, "Why do you call me good? There is no one good but God." Goodness, humility and all other virtues are fruits of Christ's SPIRIT within. NOT OF OUR OWN that no man may boast. All glory belongs to Jesus and that is why we will all lay our crowns at His feet, because He alone is worthy.

So I’m gathering by this that…you are still hung up on feeling that someone May be boasting in…that they trust Him…? Because you took the “not of our own“ from the verse that says “by the power of God through trust“ and combined it with fruits of the Spirit.
So I’m getting the impression that it’s trust, or something about it, that you’re…snagged on?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Truth doesn't alter depending on the listener. It's the same truth; that works for all of us.

Ah, I laughed and laughed at this first sentence.

What Epi was saying was that what worked for you and the way you thought about it and layed it out in writing doesn’t and might not work for others, like someone who is naturally extremely bad. He was saying that although the way you think and express it works for your mind (as long as you stay humble, take the lowest seat, don’t judge) it may not work for the mind of someone very bad.
This goes to what Epi has said about It being possible to be wrong in doctrine but right in practice and to be right in doctrine but wrong in practice.
Which is more important for you personally, what you say or what you do? It is what you do of course, right? Since you will be judged by what you did with what you were given. It was the son who, at the last, actually DID what his father said who was right.
But when does what you SAY become super critical? That’s a question.

 

[Lizbeth]

So I’m gathering by this that…you are still hung up on feeling that someone May be boasting in…that they trust Him…? Because you took the “not of our own“ from the verse that says “by the power of God through trust“ and combined it with fruits of the Spirit.
So I’m getting the impression that it’s trust, or something about it, that you’re…snagged on?

Someone is basing a lot of what they say on a wrong belief that it's our own righteousness that is being imputed to us.

1Co 4:6
Now, brothers and sisters, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, “Do not go beyond what is written.” Then you will not be puffed up in being a follower of one of us over against the other.

1Co 4:7
For who makes you different from anyone else? What do you have that you did not receive? And if you did receive it, why do you boast as though you did not?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Someone is basing a lot of what they say on a wrong belief that it's our own righteousness that is being imputed to us.

1Co 4:6
Now, brothers and sisters, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, “Do not go beyond what is written.” Then you will not be puffed up in being a follower of one of us over against the other.

1Co 4:7
For who makes you different from anyone else? What do you have that you did not receive? And if you did receive it, why do you boast as though you did not?

Oh lizbeth, you think I’m puffed up against you? tsk.
Who has gone beyond what is written? The one who says God says a man has done the right thing to trust Him or the man who says God says a man who trusts Him is just as good and right and holy as Jesus?
Who truly sounds puffed up?

 

[Lizbeth]

Ah, I laughed and laughed at this first sentence.

What Epi was saying was that what worked for you and the way you thought about it and layed it out in writing doesn’t and might not work for others, like someone who is naturally extremely bad. He was saying that although the way you think and express it works for your mind (as long as you stay humble, take the lowest seat, don’t judge) it may not work for the mind of someone very bad.
This goes to what Epi has said about It being possible to be wrong in doctrine but right in practice and to be right in doctrine but wrong in practice.
Which is more important for you personally, what you say or what you do? It is what you do of course, right? Since you will be judged by what you did with what you were given. It was the son who, at the last, actually DID what his father said who was right.
But when does what you SAY become super critical? That’s a question.

Maybe he mispoke then..? How can bad doctrine work for anyone?

 

[Lizbeth]

Oh lizbeth, you think I’m puffed up against you? tsk.
Who has gone beyond what is written? The one who says God says a man has done the right thing to trust Him or the man who says God says a man who trusts Him is just as good and right and holy as Jesus?
Who truly sounds puffed up?

That wasn't 'aimed' at anybody.....it just belonged with the next verse. You only really need to pay attention to what I underlined to understand my earlier post.