IN THE BEGINNING GOD......

[marksman]

Marksman

I am very much in agreement with your thinking. And in the past 2 years I have come to feel it is extremely important the christian avoid evolutionary theory.

Especially in modern day because one of the main tenants of evolution is to keep the Creator out of the picture.

Thanks and can I add to what you said.

I am well versed in arguing the case with atheists on the internet. The more you do it the more obvious becomes their aims.

Central to everything is rebellion. Nothing new as we read in scripture "we will not have this man (Jesus) to reign over us." The atheist has the same mindset. In embracing evolution they can move God out of the picture and put themselves central to everything so man lives or dies by their ability to make things happen.

I have noticed that most atheists discussing evolution on the internet haven't a clue as to what they are talking about. All they know it is a good way to get God out of the picture. Ask them a basic question and they look at you (if they could) and say....mumble, mumble, mumble.

As evolution is quite obviously a fairy story invented by rebellious man, we christians should have nothing to do with it.

Second, atheists in general never accept the truth. They are are only interested in lies that support their ideology. That is another reason why we must keep clear of evolution.

Third, since evolution was posted as the answer to everything, evolution has ceased to happen. Examples given are nothing more that adaptation which is to be expected the same as we adapt to circumstances. At the beginning of the adaptation it is a dog. At the end it is a. .....dog. It is not a cat, a horse, a cow, an eagle, a mouse, a monkey, a human.

Try telling that to an atheist and he will go into apoplexy and invent all sorts of fairy stories to prove that it was evolution despite dog stage one; dog stage two; dog stage three; dog stage four; dog stage five; dog stage six..........dog stage 100.

 

[horsecamp]

do you have a topic or just an observation?

hi ASPEN
I have observations from even the heathens
did you know not to far back in history
just about every human creature worship some god
simply because of the natural knowledge of God
the skies proclaimed his glory.

and did you know that all of them have a creation story

where God created the earth and not evolution..

and that if you tell even a little apache child that is not a Christian about evolution
they will just laugh at you and think you not quite all there;

why is it that even the primitive people all have a creation story
we know why they all worshipped God .. but we also know

at several times during history we all had the same faith in God.

could the primitive people have retained a small portion of the truth that their for Father's through away?

is that why they all have some sort of creation story that the Missionarys could use to tell them about Jesus AGAIN THE GREATEST OF ALL God's

ADAM AND EVE WERE OUR FIRST PARENTS.

Much later in the ark only 8 were saved all again had the same faith..

ALL THE PEOLES OF THE EARTH WORSHIP SOME SORT OF gOD

all the peoples of the earth believe in a after life..

The bible says why again God set eternity in the hearts of all people

ALL THE PEOPLES OF THE EARTH HAVE A CREATION STORY WHY IS THAT.


Gods blessings Aspen

i could careless about the limited views of scientists who reject anything beyond their senses. i do not believe in a secular conspiracy to destroy Christianity. i do not believe Satan is powerful enough to challenge God or thwart His Will - i believe that he is a cautionary figure, who choose to love selfishly - we should not follow his lead.

i do not spend my time trying to Christianize worldily institutions - i want to be devoted to loving God through prayer and loving my neighbor through service and intimate relationships.

on the other hand i am interested in learning about His creation through observation, which involves science and other academic disciplines. i do not believe this compromises my faith in God. i also refuse to view scripture as either all literally true or all false - it is a false dychotomy based in the fear of making God angry enough to damn me. Docrine does not save - the ability to love perfectly saves and it can only be achieved through Christ

aspen our love does not save us .. JESUS LOVE ALONE HAS SAVED US.

HOW DO I KNOW THIS the bible TELLS ME SO..

doctrine simply means teachings.. true doctrine is the bibles teachings..

the problem with mixing GOD wirh evolution is those that do-- must reject other bibles truth as well .

for instance if days in creation have to be millions of years to allow for evolution..

and adam came about on the 6th day how could he have even lived through the 7th day.. .. the bible says he only lived 928 years .

AND THEY ARE MORE SERIOUS FAULTS WITH MIXING THE BIBLE WITH EVOLUTION..

And if a person rejects that part of the bible because it does not Go with what they believe soon they will reject any thing they don't like.

I TELL YOU WHAT TAKE YOUR BIBLE AND A SCICCORS AND CUT EVERY THING OUT YOU DONT LIKE AND TELL ME IF YOU STILL WANT TO KEEP THAT BIBLE.. OR IF YOU SOON THROW IT IN THE TRASH..
DODO_DAVID

you know this

The problem is sin has the potential of destroying true saving faith,, a rejection of any part of the bible is sin..


and sin should not be defended..


now if you really believe the bible teaches evolution;; its still sin.. just like if I really believe its ok to murder some one..

yet we can try to talk and show some one they are wrong ..yet we should never defend the wrong..

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

.

Creation theory says a Creator created everything

Evolutionary theory says nothing became everything by random chance over billions of years

One theory is correct , both cannot be correct.

 

[marksman]

Horsecamp, your last post makes for very interesting reading and throws up some very plausible thoughts.

 

[Madad21]

this gives food for thought

http://www.beliefnet.com/Entertainment/Galleries/Great-Documentaries-on-the-Bible.aspx?p=2

 

[marksman]

Lets not be naive, evolution was never the result of finding fossils. It is a forumlated anti-god belief system.

A very pertinent claim if my experience is anything to go by. Now that I am retired I use a lot of my time debating on the internet, especially with atheists who invade christian sites. Their contributions consist mainly of pejorative statements, attacking the man not the ball and asking totally irrelevant questions when they cannot answer what they have been asked. The overriding sentiment is that they cannot handle the truth.

When they are asked a question that is scientific in content and discusses one of the claims of evolution and like a good barrister, I don't ask questions I don't know the answer to, in nearly ever case, their response is silence and if not that an answer that is complete waffle. In other words, nearly all the atheists on the internet are cultural atheists and evolutionists who have not taken a single moment to tease through the import of what they are supposed to believe. In other words, they don't know the first thing about evolution apart from a few parroted trite phrases that can be dismissed with a feather.

The one thing that they all seem to know is that they don't want God to have anything to do with anything and they believe that saying God does not exist is evidence that God does not exist.. Proof? Totally non existent. You can't prove a negative according to them. Despite this, they are happy to claim that God does not exist is the truth. NOT, I don't think God exists even though I cannot prove it.

No, a straight down the line "God does not exist." No proof. No evidence. No ifs or buts. I say God does not exist, end of story.

So what is the moral of this story. Intelligent conversation and truth are foreign concepts to atheists and evolutionists. As I said, they can't handle the truth.

 

[River Jordan]

Are you aware that most "evolutionists" are not atheists?

 

[marksman]

Are you aware that most "evolutionists" are not atheists?

No I am not as I have never seen any evidence for this claim from surveys and research.

 

[River Jordan]

In this paper (Public Acceptance of Evolution) you can see that in the developed world, acceptance of the reality of evolution is a majority position. Yet at the same time in the western world, atheists constitute approximately 2-8% of the population, depending on the country. Obviously such a small minority of atheists in one survey cannot make up such large majorities in another.

 

[JimParker]

I have only told you what evolutionists have said. Evolutionary theory is a shifting sand. When I first started to study evolution the consensus was the the earth was 200 million years old. Later it was said it 800 million. This was followed by 2 billion. This was increased to 3.5 billion. Not be outdone the earth was reckoned to be 8 billion. The last I heard from Christopher Hitchens was 13.5 billion years old.

In other words they don't know. It is nothing more than conjecture. If what they say is not evolutionary theory, they are up the creek without a paddle.

Science is not truth or even fact. It is the best that can be understood about nature at this time with the equipment we have with which to do measurements and analysis. That is not "conjecture." It is the best possible understanding man can achieve at the moment.

The idea that Genesis 1 - 11 is a literal, event by event, discription of the creation of the heavens and the earth misses the point entirely.

The Bible is the revelation of God to man. It is not a history book. It is not a cience book.

The creation hymn (yes, poetry) of Genesis 1 is a liturgical litany, not the transcript of the videotape. How long a period is represented by the word "day" is NOT important. And insisting that the earth is only 6000 years old based on the ages of prehistoric people is a total abuse of a perfectly good brain. That the universe is 13.8 billion years old, on the other hand, is not literature, not a liturgical litany, not a poem. It is the result of repeatable measurements taken by a multitude of highly trained, intelligent people. And scisntist's didn't make it up to support evolution. When it was first discovered, it was a huge problem for evolution which assumed and infinitely old, static state, universe. 13.8 billion years for the universe and 4 billion for the earth is no where near enough time for live to have evolved. The ToE had to be revised.

If one insists on getting entangled in the nonsense that people fabricate from the minute details of Genesis, it will result in consistantly missing the point of the message.

Tha bible is not an after-action report. It's literature. And very good literature, at that. If someone's understanding of the Bible is in conflict with the current consensus of scientists, it is very possible that the person's understanding of the Bible is in error.

jus sayin

 

[marksman]

Science is not truth or even fact. It is the best that can be understood about nature at this time with the equipment we have with which to do measurements and analysis. That is not "conjecture." It is the best possible understanding man can achieve at the moment.

The idea that Genesis 1 - 11 is a literal, event by event, discription of the creation of the heavens and the earth misses the point entirely.

The Bible is the revelation of God to man. It is not a history book. It is not a cience book.

The creation hymn (yes, poetry) of Genesis 1 is a liturgical litany, not the transcript of the videotape. How long a period is represented by the word "day" is NOT important. And insisting that the earth is only 6000 years old based on the ages of prehistoric people is a total abuse of a perfectly good brain. That the universe is 13.8 billion years old, on the other hand, is not literature, not a liturgical litany, not a poem. It is the result of repeatable measurements taken by a multitude of highly trained, intelligent people. And scisntist's didn't make it up to support evolution. When it was first discovered, it was a huge problem for evolution which assumed and infinitely old, static state, universe. 13.8 billion years for the universe and 4 billion for the earth is no where near enough time for live to have evolved. The ToE had to be revised.

If one insists on getting entangled in the nonsense that people fabricate from the minute details of Genesis, it will result in consistantly missing the point of the message.

Tha bible is not an after-action report. It's literature. And very good literature, at that. If someone's understanding of the Bible is in conflict with the current consensus of scientists, it is very possible that the person's understanding of the Bible is in error.

jus sayin

You are on your own with this. I have read the writings of atheists enough to know that they believe science is the truth and the bible is fairy stories written by stone age herdsmen, ignoring the fact that some writers were kings, prophets, national leaders, doctors, Rabbis and biographers. Despite this fact, they still trot out old and worn out claims that have no merit at all.

The bible may be literature and I have read that if you want to write a grammatically correct book, read the bible as it is grammatically correct. What is more important is that the bible is the word of God and God is his word. He says that heaven and earth will pass away but my word will never pass away. What all this means is that atheists and scientists and their opinions and theories will come and go and when they go as they surely will, the word of God will still be there saying what it has always said.

So one has the choice to build their lives on the rock of God's word or the sinking sand of man's opinions. It makes sense to me to choose the former as it is not changing every year like atheism and evolution does.

​I would like to point out one word which has never changed and that is Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to father except through him. What that means is that evolution or atheism is not the way, the truth or the life. Therefore to put any faith in it and you have to have an enormous amount of faith to believe everything came from nothing, is nothing less that spiritual suicide. But when you choose to elevate yourself above the wisdom of God one is destined to be the loser.

 

[River Jordan]

So one has the choice to build their lives on the rock of God's word or the sinking sand of man's opinions. It makes sense to me to choose the former as it is not changing every year like atheism and evolution does.

Again we see the black/white thinking of the fundamentalist. It's either "man's opinions" or God's word...one or the other...you have to choose...can't have both. Of course, marksman also misses the fact that he relies on "man's opinions" every single second of every single day. Shoot, he relied on "man's opinions" (i.e., science) to write and send his message that we can't trust "man's opinions"! Oops. :lol:

 

[JimParker]

<<You are on your own with this.>>

No. I am not.

<< I have read the writings of atheists >>

Are we talking about atheists or scientists? It is not necessary to be an atheist to be a scientist.

<< they believe science is the truth and the bible is fairy stories written by stone age herdsmen, ignoring the fact that some writers were kings, prophets, national leaders, doctors, Rabbis and biographers. >>

That is a blanket statement and, as such, it is false. There are plenty of Christians scientists. And there are plenty of scientists who simply do not have any interest in anything religious or spiritual particularly when they are verbally assaulted by folk like you who call them evil because of their facination with and devotion to the study of God's creation.

<< Despite this fact, they still trot out old and worn out claims that have no merit at all. >>

Exactly as you are doing with your anti-science skreed.

<< The bible may be literature>>

It is literature. That is the medium in which God's self-revelation has been preserved for us for the past 3500 years. (+/-)

<< and I have read that if you want to write a grammatically correct book, read the bible as it is grammatically correct. >>

So are you an expert int ancient Hebrew, Chaldean, Arameic and Koine Greek? Those are the language in which it was written. OR are you referring to some modern, English translation?

<< What is more important is that the bible is the word of God and God is his word.>>

The Bible is the word of God given to us in human languages so that we can understand at the level at which we are capable.

<< He says that heaven and earth will pass away but my word will never pass away. What all this means is that atheists and scientists and their opinions and theories will come and go and when they go as they surely will, the word of God will still be there saying what it has always said. >>

You are assuming way too much when you declare that you know what God means. You have taken those words out of their context (which is Jesus' second coming) and inserted them into your personal issues. Then you said it is what God meant. That is a patently false statement. Jesus was not saying anything about your bogeymen, scientists and atheists.

<< So one has the choice to build their lives on the rock of God's word or the sinking sand of man's opinions. It makes sense to me to choose the former as it is not changing every year like atheism and evolution does >>

Then you should do so rather than building your life of the sinking sand of your animosity toward scientists.

<< ​I would like to point out one word which has never changed and that is Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to father except through him. What that means is that evolution or atheism is not the way, the truth or the life. >>

No one is making any such claim. You are jousting with windmills.

<< Therefore to put any faith in it and you have to have an enormous amount of faith to believe everything came from nothing, is nothing less that spiritual suicide.>>

According to scripture, everything did come from nothing. According to the orthodox, Christian, theological, understanding of Genesis 1:1, God created the heavens and earth ex nihilo. (out of nothing)

If you are proposing that God used materials that were already present, then you are a proponant of a pagan view of God as being co-eternal with the universe.

Luke 6:37 Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.

 

[marksman]

Again we see the black/white thinking of the fundamentalist. It's either "man's opinions" or God's word...one or the other...you have to choose...can't have both. Of course, marksman also misses the fact that he relies on "man's opinions" every single second of every single day. Shoot, he relied on "man's opinions" (i.e., science) to write and send his message that we can't trust "man's opinions"! Oops. :lol:

​I have to admit I am somewhat mystified how you know that I rely on man's opinion every single second of every single day. As yet, I have not seen anyone by your name in my house or church or when I go on holiday or shopping so the only thing that I can conjecture is that you have ESP.

Tell me, is it man's opinion when I park in a disabled parking bay because I have a disabled parking permit?

Is it man's opinion when my wife says to me "What you would like for tea tonight" and I say "Spaghetti Bolognese please."

​Tell me, is it man's opinion when I decide to go to Nick's Bakehouse for afternoon coffee and doughnuts with my wife because I like their coffee?

 

[River Jordan]

I'm pretty sure you relied on "man's opinions" to write your post and send it to us via the internet. After all, your computer and all the other infrastructure necessary for you to do that is based on science, which is nothing more than "man's opinions", right? :huh:

 

[JimParker]

Seems like large number of Christians believe in the very small, very feeble, very distant and ignorant God. God who cannot possibly create anything in just six days, God who is some very distant God who wrote the book and forgot all about His creation, went on vacation or something. Some even believe that God is so small and remote that some old guy in fancy nightgown can control all access to Him!

If only most Christians knew how awesome real God is! How powerful, how personable, how close and real God is!

<< Seems like large number of Christians believe in the very small, very feeble, very distant and ignorant God. God who cannot possibly create anything in just six days, >>

The presentation of the creation in Genesis 1 is a liturgical litany. It is the genealogy which begins every story in ancient Hebrew literature. It is not supposed to be the transcript of the video tape of creation. It is the introduction to God's self revelation. To attempt to turn it into a literal account of the creation is to totally miss the point.

How can you assume that anyone believes in a "very small, very feeble, Ignorant God" Who can say "Let there be light" and the "Big Bang" happens? How is that a "very small, very feeble, Ignorant God"?

Please cut out the demagoguery and deprecation of anyone who happen to hold a view different from yours. Judge not let ye be judged.

 

[pom2014]

I like using lightning as a great way to show a very powerful God.

This energy fuses nitrogen from the air and when it strikes the ground deposits about a half kilo of plant usable nitrogen.

Now here's the best part. He set it up to do that with him even having to think about it. Just like you don't have bid your blood to go from your heart to your head, God just has lighting feed plants nitrogen.

Now tell me how awesome is God?