Is believing/faith a work ?

[Eternally Grateful]

You condition salvation on mans action and works, not grace !

Whatever my friend.

Good luck with your christian life. I refuse to put up with this nonsense.

once again, I can not merit salvation when someone else saved me, I just allowed him to do it. vs saying no. or trying to save myself

Your thinking is flawed

 

[brightfame52]

I said:
Acts 2:21, which is a quote of Joel 2:32, says, "whosoever shall call on the Name of YHVH shall be saved." One might consider "calling on the name" a work. I don't. If a person calls on the Name of YHVH, his lifestyle demonstrates if he means it.

If someone came to your church and "got saved," would you expect their lifestyle to demonstrate that change, or should they continue living as if there is no God? Should that person live a life that is pleasing to God, or continue doing whatever suits them?

THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT STATEMENT:
"Whosoever calls on the Name of YHVH shall be saved."

Your claim is that I added a requirement beyond this.

I am sure I did not.

You still seem to me to condition salvation on works, what a person does !

 

[brightfame52]

Whatever my friend.

Good luck with your christian life. I refuse to put up with this nonsense.

once again, I can not merit salvation when someone else saved me, I just allowed him to do it. vs saying no. or trying to save myself

Your thinking is flawed

You condition salvation on mans action and works, not grace !

 

[Happy Trails]

Whatever my friend.

Good luck with your christian life. I refuse to put up with this nonsense.

once again, I can not merit salvation when someone else saved me, I just allowed him to do it. vs saying no. or trying to save myself

Your thinking is flawed

So, you were unable to actually address the issue and discuss it like an adult. You paid

You still seem to me to condition salvation on works, what a person does !

So, in your opinion, "accepting Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior" is a work. Got it.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

So, you were unable to actually address the issue and discuss it like an adult. You paid

Actually, I came to an end of discussing like an adult. There has to come a time where you throw your hands up. That was one of them.

 

[brightfame52]

So, you were unable to actually address the issue and discuss it like an adult. You paid

So, in your opinion, "accepting Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior" is a work. Got it.

Is accepting Jesus as your personal savior the condition you met in order for God to save you ? If yes, then yes its a work, a meritorious work at that !

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

The answer is absolutely yes. If we agree with the overall definition of work according to the greek word for work ergon:

See strongs # 2041:

1. business, employment, that which any one is occupied
   1. that which one undertakes to do, enterprise, undertaking
2. any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind
   
   
   
3. an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work
   
   A work is anything done, accomplished by #1 hand, #2 art, #3 industry, #4 or MIND
   
   The mind is :
   
   (in a human or other conscious being) the element, part, substance, or process that reasons, thinks, feels, wills, perceives, judges, etc.
   
   Psychology. the totality of conscious and unconscious mental processes and activities.
   
   So believing something via the mental activity and process of reasoning is work. The process of decision making is a activity, work of the mind.
   
   Now for instance, the sin of hatred Gal 5:19-20
   
   
   Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
   
   
   20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
   
   How is that sin committed ? It starts in the mind or heart ! Yet in Vs 19 its stated as an work of the flesh
   
   So activity in and with the mind/heart is a work, this cannot be denied..
   
   Now believing is either a work of the flesh [unregenerate] or of the Spirit [ regenerated]
   
   But now Salvation is not by works, Neither by works of the flesh or works of the Spirit.

No, you present of definition of work and can't even understand it youself. Jesus did the work in the cross. He fulfulled the Law. We are saved by grace (unmerited favor( through faith (a gift) - NOT BY WORKS. Confession is not a work. It is an admission of guilt for our sins. The sins we commit are sirks of evil. We either pay for them (as in the wages of sin is death) or Christ does and we are saved.
Besides God enables us to believe. He lifts the spiritual veil of blindness - we can't. He draws us to Himself and convinces us and eventually we agree. It is sometimes a ling journey to that divine appointment that He orchestrates. He sends people our way to witness and minister to us, brings us through life experiences and lessons in order to prepare our hearts. We agree and say yes. But without Him, we would be lost and could nit jumpstart thus process alone.

 

[Happy Trails]

Is accepting Jesus as your personal savior the condition you met in order for God to save you ? If yes, then yes its a work, a meritorious work at that !

But Paul says it is not a work.

Perhaps the meaning of "works" should be considered.

Just like the controversy in Acts 15, some Jews said that the new converts must obey the Law to be saved. Peter said that the Holy Spirit was received by the new converts and their hearts have been purified, so they must be saved. James followed up with, "Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. 21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day."

If the Gentiles will stop these 4 sins, they can join the Jews in the synagogue on the Sabbath to hear the Law.

They were saved. Now, it's time to learn.
They believed. Now, it's time to do works worthy of repentance.
Repentance is the act of returning to God's instructions.

 

[brightfame52]

No, you present of definition of work and can't even understand it youself. Jesus did the work in the cross. He fulfulled the Law. We are saved by grace (unmerited favor( through faith (a gift) - NOT BY WORKS. Confession is not a work. It is an admission of guilt for our sins. The sins we commit are sirks of evil. We either pay for them (as in the wages of sin is death) or Christ does and we are saved.
Besides God enables us to believe. He lifts the spiritual veil of blindness - we can't. He draws us to Himself and convinces us and eventually we agree. It is sometimes a ling journey to that divine appointment that He orchestrates. He sends people our way to witness and minister to us, brings us through life experiences and lessons in order to prepare our hearts. We agree and say yes. But without Him, we would be lost and could nit jumpstart thus process alone.

Apparently you dont understand the definition of a work.

 

[brightfame52]

But Paul says it is not a work.

Perhaps the meaning of "works" should be considered.

Just like the controversy in Acts 15, some Jews said that the new converts must obey the Law to be saved. Peter said that the Holy Spirit was received by the new converts and their hearts have been purified, so they must be saved. James followed up with, "Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. 21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day."

If the Gentiles will stop these 4 sins, they can join the Jews in the synagogue on the Sabbath to hear the Law.

They were saved. Now, it's time to learn.
They believed. Now, it's time to do works worthy of repentance.
Repentance is the act of returning to God's instructions.

No Paul never said anything of the sort. If you believe your action of accepting Christ as you say, is what caused God to save you, if that action of yours made the difference in you being saved and lost, then you promote salvation by your works, no way around it. Paul condemns such teaching !

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Apparently you dont understand the definition of a work.

I guess I'm not as bright as you?

 

[brightfame52]

I guess I'm not as bright as you?

Well it dont exactly take a rocket scientist !

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Excuse me sir, The law was not in context of romans 4. There was no law when Abraham believed.

The point in Rom 4 that Paul was making to the Jews was that Abraham was NOT justified by the work of perfect law keeping but instead he was justified by an obedient faith. Paul goes on to point out in Rom 4 that Abraham did not even live under the law of Moses for Abraham was justified in UNcircumcision proving to the Jew that one CAN be justified apart from the law of Moses.

David on the other had DID live under the law of Moses but still that law could not justify him for he did not keep it perfectly, he sinned.

So Paul's whole point here is that justification does not come by law that requires the work of flawless perfect law keeping as required by the law of Moses but justification is by an obedient faith. Therefore the Jews should not continue on in keeping the law of Moses for it could not justify them, but having an obedient faith in Christ that will justify

 

[brightfame52]

The point in Rom 4 that Paul was making to the Jews was that Abraham was NOT justified by the work of perfect law keeping but instead he was justified by an obedient faith. Paul goes on to point out in Rom 4 that Abraham did not even live under the law of Moses for Abraham was justified in UNcircumcision proving to the Jew that one CAN be justified apart from the law of Moses.

David on the other had DID live under the law of Moses but still that law could not justify him for he did not keep it perfectly, he sinned.

So Paul's whole point here is that justification does not come by law that requires the work of flawless perfect law keeping as required by the law of Moses but justification is by an obedient faith. Therefore the Jews should not continue on in keeping the law of Moses for it could not justify them, but having an obedient faith in Christ that will justify

but justification is by an obedient faith.

This is works too ! By what a person does !

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

This is works too ! By what a person does !

This has been refuted ad nauseam number of time....Naamans' obedience in dipping did not earn the free gift of healing but was necessary to receive it, Noah's obedience in building he ark did not earn the free gfit of salvation from the flood but was necessary to receive it, the blind man's obedience in washing his eyes did not earn his sight but was necessary to receive it, the Israelites obedience in marching around Jericho did not earn then the free gift of that city but was necessary to receive it

 

[brightfame52]

This has been refuted ad nauseam number of time....Naamans' obedience in dipping did not earn the free gift of healing but was necessary to receive it, Noah's obedience in building he ark did not earn the free gfit of salvation from the flood but was necessary to receive it, the blind man's obedience in washing his eyes did not earn his sight but was necessary to receive it, the Israelites obedience in marching around Jericho did not earn then the free gift of that city but was necessary to receive it

See previous answer !

 

[brightfame52]

The word “believe” in the Greek text is “pisteuo” which is a verb denoting a work. If a person could believe in Christ before they are born again by the Spirit, it would mean they have done a work and that would mean they have worked for their salvation which is totally against what the scriptures teach. Ephesians 2:8-9

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.22

 

[brightfame52]

Believing or Faith is contrasted with works Salvation because one must be saved already in order to believe in Christ. So when you see verses like Rom 3:22

Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Rom 4:11

And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:

1 Cor 1:21

For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

Gal 3:22

But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

Heb 11:6


But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

1 Pet 2:7

Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,

Believing is evidence of being in a saved state, not a condition to get into a saved state. When this truth is adhered to, its then believing is in contrast to works salvation or justification 23

 

[brightfame52]

A persons believing is a gracious gift God gives, its a preternatural operation enacted by God on spiritually dead people. Its given to a person to believe on Christ Phil 1:29 since its something man cannot naturally do.

 

[brightfame52]

Believing is one of works God has ordained each new creation of His to walk in. Eph 2:10

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before

Thats why believing Faith can be contrasted with works for Salvation, when its a work post Salvation !