Nancy
Well-Known Member
God gives all good gifts to us. If you accept His food, His money, His clothing, shelter and on and on and on...then how can one say it's "works" to accept His freely given, best gift known to mankind, seems almost rude, lol.
Is believing/faith a work ?
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Yet those things come by working, The bible says you dont work, you dont eat !
2 Thess 3:10
For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.
This shows you believe in salvation by what you do, works !
The only time believing isnt a work is when its understood that the Faith in which a believer believes did not originate from within him or her self, but it was granted to them by Sovereign Grace, otherwise believing faith defaults to a work of man naturally from within himself.
I think there is a misunderstanding there. Faith, belief, is not a work. While those good works we do as the faithful led by God to do his will on earth is the fruit of our faith. It isn't work or working to remain in the faith or to retain Salvation.
If a person says that they were saved after they obeyed, or after they believed, this person is in essence saying, salvation is of myself, of my work, and whether they admit it or not, they have something to boast of. Yet Gods word insists that salvation is the Gift of God, not of man, its not of works lest any man boast Eph 2:8-9
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Many tell us that in order to get saved you must accept Christ, now understand, if we call ourselves accepting Christ to get saved, that would be a work, since its an action we do. The word for work ergon:
So accepting Christ is an act on our part. But the scripture teaches Salvation without works See Eph 2:8-9; 2 Tim 1:9
Yes, if we must perform any act to get, or keep salvation, its no longer salvation by grace, but of works.
- an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work
So accepting Christ is an act on our part. But the scripture teaches Salvation without works See Eph 2:8-9; 2 Tim 1:9
Yes, if we must perform any act to get, or keep salvation, its no longer salvation by grace, but of works.
When the Jailer in Acts 16:30 asked what must I do to be saved,
And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
He wasnt asking about what qualifying action he can do to get himself saved, for he never used the word get as in get saved, but he used the word be, as be saved. The words be saved here are in the passive voice wherein the subject is the recipient of the action, for he was speaking from a frame of helplessness, hopelessness. Pauls response was not that he should do, act, or perform but to believe, that's promoting Faith and not works. Paul knew that believing was the Gift of God, that is, to believe in Christ savingly wasn't a natural inherent quality of the natural man, believing is having been given the Gift of Faith Eph 2:8. Paul testified to the fact that believing on Christ was something God gives here Phil 1:29
29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;
That word given is basically the same word for grace charizomai derived from and the middle voice of charis translated 130 times in the NT as Grace.
So people believe because of Grace Acts 18:27.
So now even though technically believing is a doing, which technically is a work, nobody has the ability to believe until God by Grace, by Grace doing, its Gods Grace and Spirit working in the Spirit sanctified sinner causing the sinner to believe. No man by nature can truly believe in Christ as Saviour without first being saved by Grace and given the gift of Faith, so it is written 1 Pet 1:21
21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
Phil 2:13
13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
The do the Jailer needed to do to be saved, God needed to first worketh in him to do.
So thats how Salvation by works and Faith can be scripturally contrasted, when credit is given to Grace for a person doing the believing, and believing wasn't a natural freewill ability they had of themselves prior to regeneration.
But if we insist that believing was a condition we met prior to being saved by grace, and we did it as natural men, and as a result, God saved us, that's making believing, faith a work we do for salvation.24
And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
He wasnt asking about what qualifying action he can do to get himself saved, for he never used the word get as in get saved, but he used the word be, as be saved. The words be saved here are in the passive voice wherein the subject is the recipient of the action, for he was speaking from a frame of helplessness, hopelessness. Pauls response was not that he should do, act, or perform but to believe, that's promoting Faith and not works. Paul knew that believing was the Gift of God, that is, to believe in Christ savingly wasn't a natural inherent quality of the natural man, believing is having been given the Gift of Faith Eph 2:8. Paul testified to the fact that believing on Christ was something God gives here Phil 1:29
29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;
That word given is basically the same word for grace charizomai derived from and the middle voice of charis translated 130 times in the NT as Grace.
So people believe because of Grace Acts 18:27.
So now even though technically believing is a doing, which technically is a work, nobody has the ability to believe until God by Grace, by Grace doing, its Gods Grace and Spirit working in the Spirit sanctified sinner causing the sinner to believe. No man by nature can truly believe in Christ as Saviour without first being saved by Grace and given the gift of Faith, so it is written 1 Pet 1:21
21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
Phil 2:13
13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
The do the Jailer needed to do to be saved, God needed to first worketh in him to do.
So thats how Salvation by works and Faith can be scripturally contrasted, when credit is given to Grace for a person doing the believing, and believing wasn't a natural freewill ability they had of themselves prior to regeneration.
But if we insist that believing was a condition we met prior to being saved by grace, and we did it as natural men, and as a result, God saved us, that's making believing, faith a work we do for salvation.24
Jim B
Well-Known Member
Behold
Well-Known Member
Obeys this..
= "The work of God is that you believe on Jesus whom God sent".
If you obey that, you go to heaven.
You just defeated Your belief only and no obedience to God gospel.
And I am thankful you are now partially agreeing that the faith that saves us is not belief and no obedience but a faith that obeys! Which is the faith that James preached saves,
James 2:24
You see then that a man is justified by works (obedience), and not by faith only(with no obedience).
There are prerequisites in Jesus' gospel to be saved.
Not one of the prerequisites merits salvation when we do them.
Jesus gospel saves by believing in Jesus 1Corinthians 15:1-4.
And obeying His gospel commands
Hebrews 5:8-9
Though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered.
And having been perfected He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him.
All of Gods essential requirements that He commands for us to be saved.
Hear the gospel, Romans 10:17
Believe ALL the gospel, Romans 10:17
Repent of our sins against God, Acts 2:38 ; Acts 17:30 ; Acts 3:19
Publicly confess our faith in Christ, Romans 10:9-10 ; Matthew 10:32-33 ; Acts 8:37 ; 1John 4:15
Submit ourselves to Jesus by being water immersed, Acts 2:38 ;John 3:5 ; Mark 16:15-16 ; 1Peter 3:20-21 ; Acts 22:16
When we Obey Jesus by submitting to His will, He saves us by His Grace, Ephesians 2:8-9.
Only those IN Christ are saved.
We get into Christ by believing and obeying His gospel,
Galatians 3:26-27
For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Hope you know I love you.
The born again believer was granted God given Faith by Grace, in order to believe in Jesus Christ for his or her Salvation, so believing in this regard is not a work of man but a Gift from God to him by Grace.
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
Now understand, . If faith, repentance, gospel obedience, are the work of man, or the productions of natural man’s own efforts, then his salvation is the fruit of his own labour , his work,
However If faith, repentance, gospel obedience, are the gifts of God of His grace, then it is absurd , to consider them as conditions on the part of man and then his salvation is of grace.25
However If faith, repentance, gospel obedience, are the gifts of God of His grace, then it is absurd , to consider them as conditions on the part of man and then his salvation is of grace.25
Acts 16:30-32
30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.
What the answer the jailer received simply shows is, the saved believe. He was not told to ‘Believe, and then you will be saved or get saved’. He was not told that his act of believing is what his salvation is reliant upon. He was merely told that the saved believe, and the rest of Scripture shows that this believing is a gift from God, and not something which can be self-induced by man. Salvation does not wait upon your believing, but on the grace of God. All a man can be told is believe and you will be saved. However, far from implying that salvation is conditioned on a man’s believing, all these words are saying is that only the man who believes will be saved. The man who has eternal life is the man who believes. The gift of eternal life is present only in the man who believes. The gift comes first, then the believing. Salvation is not by works, it is not by your belief, it is by the grace of God through the gift of faith. Grace gives faith to the man who has been chosen by God to believe. Believing is not a ‘Do this and you will then be/get saved’ proposition, for believing is a gift from God to the one He has chosen to save. Faith is given before belief, so that one will believe. One cannot savingly believe before grace gives the gift of faith. One cannot believe without the gift of faith being given first, just as one cannot be saved without grace. https://www.godsonlygospel.com/by-grace-alone-22
30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.
What the answer the jailer received simply shows is, the saved believe. He was not told to ‘Believe, and then you will be saved or get saved’. He was not told that his act of believing is what his salvation is reliant upon. He was merely told that the saved believe, and the rest of Scripture shows that this believing is a gift from God, and not something which can be self-induced by man. Salvation does not wait upon your believing, but on the grace of God. All a man can be told is believe and you will be saved. However, far from implying that salvation is conditioned on a man’s believing, all these words are saying is that only the man who believes will be saved. The man who has eternal life is the man who believes. The gift of eternal life is present only in the man who believes. The gift comes first, then the believing. Salvation is not by works, it is not by your belief, it is by the grace of God through the gift of faith. Grace gives faith to the man who has been chosen by God to believe. Believing is not a ‘Do this and you will then be/get saved’ proposition, for believing is a gift from God to the one He has chosen to save. Faith is given before belief, so that one will believe. One cannot savingly believe before grace gives the gift of faith. One cannot believe without the gift of faith being given first, just as one cannot be saved without grace. https://www.godsonlygospel.com/by-grace-alone-22
Is making a decision a work ?
Yes to make a decision is a work, no not a physical activity you do with say your hands, arms, legs or body muscles and mass, but a mental work, labor. Lets take for instance a person who may be on a sodium restriction, and they're in a grocery store about to buy a can of soup. They observe many different soup labels on the shelf, so they began to read the nutrition contents as it pertains to sodium. They see a can with the label reading 110 mg sodium, a can reading 220 mg sodium, and one reading 550 mg sodium, which can of soup should they purchase ? To say the least a decision has to be made. How is that decision derived ? You must think, consider , weigh the pros and cons, which all are mental activities of the mind, its mental work, it takes mental exertion effort to do this. Now so it is when its being taught that a person , in order to get saved, they must make a decision for Christ !
Yes to make a decision is a work, no not a physical activity you do with say your hands, arms, legs or body muscles and mass, but a mental work, labor. Lets take for instance a person who may be on a sodium restriction, and they're in a grocery store about to buy a can of soup. They observe many different soup labels on the shelf, so they began to read the nutrition contents as it pertains to sodium. They see a can with the label reading 110 mg sodium, a can reading 220 mg sodium, and one reading 550 mg sodium, which can of soup should they purchase ? To say the least a decision has to be made. How is that decision derived ? You must think, consider , weigh the pros and cons, which all are mental activities of the mind, its mental work, it takes mental exertion effort to do this. Now so it is when its being taught that a person , in order to get saved, they must make a decision for Christ !
Show me a work without Faith.
Faith within it's self is a Work of the Holy Spirit ! and abiding in such, one must ! or it's not of Faith.
Hey what are you going to do ? in your walk with Jesus ? Grace ? where does Grace abound from ? The one who abides in Christ Jesus is of Grace.
Now the carnal will always point to works as being from you ? for they know not Christ Jesus nor Grace, so they are dumb ? blighted ! as to the Holy Spirit. so they coming in from the wrong angle for a start. they crash the car so to speak making a wreck of to issue at hand. because they are blighted.
Now if a Christian makes claims on another true Christian, That the works that James was talking about was coming from a position of what is defined as your Works ? well that means that they do not have a clue what James is saying, nor were he is coming from.
James is not talking to the ignorant at all, he is coming from the people who understand the issue at hand ! and if anyone claims that James is representing to that of Mans works, such a one is clearly representing Satan.
I had one clown claim that the Protestant Bible was going to cut the book of James out, because of the works issue was seen to be a carnal point of view. I said to him that no one could get what James said wrong if you were truly born again.
Faith within it's self is a Work of the Holy Spirit ! and abiding in such, one must ! or it's not of Faith.
Hey what are you going to do ? in your walk with Jesus ? Grace ? where does Grace abound from ? The one who abides in Christ Jesus is of Grace.
Now the carnal will always point to works as being from you ? for they know not Christ Jesus nor Grace, so they are dumb ? blighted ! as to the Holy Spirit. so they coming in from the wrong angle for a start. they crash the car so to speak making a wreck of to issue at hand. because they are blighted.
Now if a Christian makes claims on another true Christian, That the works that James was talking about was coming from a position of what is defined as your Works ? well that means that they do not have a clue what James is saying, nor were he is coming from.
James is not talking to the ignorant at all, he is coming from the people who understand the issue at hand ! and if anyone claims that James is representing to that of Mans works, such a one is clearly representing Satan.
I had one clown claim that the Protestant Bible was going to cut the book of James out, because of the works issue was seen to be a carnal point of view. I said to him that no one could get what James said wrong if you were truly born again.
Is making a decision a work ? 2
The Arminian freewiller gospel gives us a camouflage gospel of works parading as salvation by grace through faith. It provides the natural man room to boast in their supposed salvation, yet in their mind they deny such, but affirm that they ascribe their salvation to their freewill decision for Christ. However this is a deception, its a cloak for boasting , its still teaching that salvation is conditioned on man, on his works, will, or decision, his mental effort at the least. He can even boast and say he is saved because of his wisdom or making a wise choice. The true believer however has been God given Faith to realize that they have been saved by Grace alone, and what God only by Grace has done, that none of their salvation was conditioned on them. Eph 2:8-9
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works or[my decision], lest any man should boast.
The Arminian freewiller gospel gives us a camouflage gospel of works parading as salvation by grace through faith. It provides the natural man room to boast in their supposed salvation, yet in their mind they deny such, but affirm that they ascribe their salvation to their freewill decision for Christ. However this is a deception, its a cloak for boasting , its still teaching that salvation is conditioned on man, on his works, will, or decision, his mental effort at the least. He can even boast and say he is saved because of his wisdom or making a wise choice. The true believer however has been God given Faith to realize that they have been saved by Grace alone, and what God only by Grace has done, that none of their salvation was conditioned on them. Eph 2:8-9
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works or[my decision], lest any man should boast.
The Jews all through history when they turned their backs of God they failed every time ! Show me works without Faith ?
So Faith is a work ! it takes a spark to have faith ! and who gave that spark of faith to you ? all around you worked to produce in you faith, just because one has faith is a work that you can see, that helps you, if you work to see such, if you do not bother to work your mind towards such, then you will not pick up on such.
If one has Christ in you, you will do his will. If not you will only do as you please.
As for the concept of work ? the carnal think you are doing such you are doing such from a perspective that's devoid from God. but it's not that at all ! it's all God inspired that the work is done, not of your self works, like a carnal moron would only claim or Satan.
I am compelled to do the workings of God, not that I myself may want to do such, but I take the time for God. so if you do not do as such you are a work in yourself and not of God at all.
If one comes to me about God I do not just walk away and say go and be filled.
The Body of Christ is the Body, not the belly ! so the body she works in Christ as such is the Head. we work as one in God and they who are outside of God are like cats.
To Pray is a work in fact ! to come to the wellspring is a work ! to study the Bible is a work ! and you have to do all such or the weeds will grow up and choke you. the weeds are the cares of this world. and what is this world, Jesus said this world is full of deceptions and delusions.
But who that is in Christ Jesus knows what is what !
So Faith is a work ! it takes a spark to have faith ! and who gave that spark of faith to you ? all around you worked to produce in you faith, just because one has faith is a work that you can see, that helps you, if you work to see such, if you do not bother to work your mind towards such, then you will not pick up on such.
If one has Christ in you, you will do his will. If not you will only do as you please.
As for the concept of work ? the carnal think you are doing such you are doing such from a perspective that's devoid from God. but it's not that at all ! it's all God inspired that the work is done, not of your self works, like a carnal moron would only claim or Satan.
I am compelled to do the workings of God, not that I myself may want to do such, but I take the time for God. so if you do not do as such you are a work in yourself and not of God at all.
If one comes to me about God I do not just walk away and say go and be filled.
The Body of Christ is the Body, not the belly ! so the body she works in Christ as such is the Head. we work as one in God and they who are outside of God are like cats.
To Pray is a work in fact ! to come to the wellspring is a work ! to study the Bible is a work ! and you have to do all such or the weeds will grow up and choke you. the weeds are the cares of this world. and what is this world, Jesus said this world is full of deceptions and delusions.
But who that is in Christ Jesus knows what is what !
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