Is believing/faith a work ?

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brightfame52

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if believing is a meritorious work, then;

Rom 10:10 believeth unto righteousness must mean righteousness is earned/merited
John 3:16 whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life must mean eternal life is earned/merited
mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved must mean salvation is earned/merited
Yes believing becomes a meritorious work when you condition your salvation on you doing it.
 

Ernest T. Bass

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Yes believing becomes a meritorious work when you condition your salvation on you doing it.
Salvation is impossible apart from belief, Christ requires men to believe, therefore according to your thinking salvation is not a free gift but something Christ wants to be earned/merited.


Free gifts, as salvation, can and often times do come with conditions and meeting the condition upon a free gift does not in anyway earn/merit the free gift. There are many examples of this in the Bible where God put conditions upon His free gift, yet not the first time is man's obedience in meeting the condition in order to receive God's free gift called a work of merit.
 

Rockerduck

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Philippians 4:13-I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.

Without Jesus Christ in your life you can do nothing good. The carnal mind thinks about himself. But with Jesus in you, your works have been created for you.

Ephesians 2:10 - For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
 

brightfame52

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Salvation is impossible apart from belief, Christ requires men to believe, therefore according to your thinking salvation is not a free gift but something Christ wants to be earned/merited.


Free gifts, as salvation, can and often times do come with conditions and meeting the condition upon a free gift does not in anyway earn/merit the free gift. There are many examples of this in the Bible where God put conditions upon His free gift, yet not the first time is man's obedience in meeting the condition in order to receive God's free gift called a work of merit.
Salvation is impossible without belief, thats why it accompanies Salvation, God gives it when He saves a person, its not a condition to get God to save you. So if you say believing is an evidence of salvation, its a gift, but if you say its a condition you perform to get salvation, it becomes a meritorious work of yours.
 

brightfame52

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Philippians 4:13-I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.

Without Jesus Christ in your life you can do nothing good. The carnal mind thinks about himself. But with Jesus in you, your works have been created for you.

Ephesians 2:10 - For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
I concur with that, Faith, believing is one of those good works done after being made Gods workmanship, a new creature.
 

thelord's_pearl

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great question! believing is still "doing" something. You choose to believe but according to scripture I think it's divided into two things: belief and works so faith, your 'thoughts' (belief) and works "your doing".
 

brightfame52

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great question! believing is still "doing" something. You choose to believe but according to scripture I think it's divided into two things: belief and works so faith, your 'thoughts' (belief) and works "your doing".
Its pretty simple, if you condition your salvation on anything you do, its a merit base work salvation !
 

brightfame52

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Another definition for works from a english dictionary:

www.dictionary.com

Definition of works | Dictionary.com

Works definition at Dictionary.com, a free online dictionary with pronunciation, synonyms and translation. Look it up now!
www.dictionary.com
www.dictionary.com

the deeds of a person, esp virtuous or moral deeds performed as religious acts works of charity

Now isnt ones act of believing the deed of a person ? Is believing a virtuous or moral or spiritual deed ? If so, and we believe our salvation depends on us doing that deed, it constitutes salvation by our works, our doing a deed.27
 

Ernest T. Bass

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Philippians 4:13-I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.

Without Jesus Christ in your life you can do nothing good. The carnal mind thinks about himself. But with Jesus in you, your works have been created for you.

Ephesians 2:10 - For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
Athiests are able to do good works. Cornelius was lost, did not believe in Christ but was able to do good works and was willing and able to hear Peter's sermon. The Jews in Acts 2 were lost, did not believe in Christ but able and willing to hear the gospel message as preached to them by Peter, understand that message and obey that message by repenting and being baptized
 

Ernest T. Bass

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Salvation is impossible without belief, thats why it accompanies Salvation, God gives it when He saves a person, its not a condition to get God to save you. So if you say believing is an evidence of salvation, its a gift, but if you say its a condition you perform to get salvation, it becomes a meritorious work of yours.
Faith comes by hearing the word of God, Rom 10:17, faith is not something God randomly gives to one person over another person unconditionally apart from the word of God thereby making God a respecter or persons as to whom He gives faith to and withholds faith from.

Men were commanded to believe as the jailer and belief is obedience (Jn 3:36) and obedience is not a work of merit.

Jn 6:27ff
Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

Jesus here clearly says to WORK for the meat that endures unto everlasting life.
No work = no everlasting life.

Jesus goes on to say work for the meat that endures unto everlasting life which the Son of man shall GIVE unto you. The word 'give' means everlasting life is a free gift gtherefore cannot be merited. But everlasting life is a CONDITIONAL free gift and one must work to meet the conditions placed upon the free gift.


Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?

The people asked what shall WE DO. Jesus did NOT tell them do nothing else you try and merit everlasting life. Jesus gave the the wrok of believing to do. Believing therefore is something done, it is a condition that must be met to receove the free gift of everlasting life, veleiving is obedience (Jn 3:36) and obedience in meeting the conditions placed upon a free gift earns nothing.

Not a sinlge case in the BIble is ant man's obedience to God in order to receive GOd's free gift called a work of merit. Hence your position is antithical to the Bible's position.

Faith onlyist seem to want to refuse to understand the everyday fact and reality that free gifts often times come with conditions and meeting the necessary condition does not in any way earn the free gift.
 

Ernest T. Bass

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Its pretty simple, if you condition your salvation on anything you do, its a merit base work salvation !
I have asked many times, to no avail, for you to show an example of God commanded some thing of man in order to receive God's free gift and that man's obedience to God's command is called a work of merit.

God commanded of Noah to build an ark to receive God's free gift of salvation from the flood, and Noah obeyed doing all God commanded him. Where does the Bible call Noah's obedience to God a work of merit?
 

Rockerduck

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Athiests are able to do good works. Cornelius was lost, did not believe in Christ but was able to do good works and was willing and able to hear Peter's sermon. The Jews in Acts 2 were lost, did not believe in Christ but able and willing to hear the gospel message as preached to them by Peter, understand that message and obey that message by repenting and being baptized
Of course unsaved can do good works, but those aren't stored in heaven. Those works were self purposed. Look at me; I gave to charity.
As in my post,
Ephesians 2:10 - For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

There is no way an unsaved person can do the works which God has prepared beforehand to walk in them, without being saved in Christ.
 

Ernest T. Bass

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Of course unsaved can do good works, but those aren't stored in heaven. Those works were self purposed. Look at me; I gave to charity.
As in my post,
Ephesians 2:10 - For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

There is no way an unsaved person can do the works which God has prepared beforehand to walk in them, without being saved in Christ.
Those goods works of Eph 2:10 are required of the Christian, without those good works the Christian becomes fruitless and lost.

For we -- those who are Christians

are His workmanship -- one cannot make himself a Christian apart from God's instructions found in the NT. Therefore it takes obedience on the part of man to obey those instructions whereby one then is God's handiwork. It is those who are obeying God's instructions that "work out your own salvation" therefore it is the obedient that God is working in, (Phil 2:12-13)

created in Christ Jesus -- this new creature (2 Cor 5:17) is created when men obey Christ (Gal 6:15 cf Gal 5:6; 1 Cor 7:19) obedience in submitting to baptism puts one into Christ (Gal 3:27).

for good works -- Christian are to serve by doing good works which salvation for the Christian is impossible apart from doing good works, the Christian must maintain good works (Titus 3:14; Titus 2:14; Heb 10:24; Matt 25:31ff)

which God afore prepared that we should walk in them -- 'afore prepared' means God has already indicated in His NT the good works Christians are to do showing how Christians are to walk in their daily lives (Rom 8:1,4; Rom 13:13; Eph 5:8; Col 1:9-10; Col 2:6; etc).



My point is that any man can do good works listed in the BIble (give to the poor, help the weak, feed the hungry, visit those in prison, do unto others, etc) but those good works cannot save for it takes obedience to God's will to be saved. And from the Jews in Acts 2 and Gentiles in Acts 10 we see that lost people can do the work of obeying God's will while still lost apart from God.

I do not know your theological background, but some theologies, as Calvinism, falsely teach man is born totally depraved therefore unable to do any good, man cannot obey God unless God first miraculously acts upon a person "regenerating" that person. So I am not sure what direction you are going when you said "Without Jesus Christ in your life you can do nothing good." Are you suggesting by this statement that man is born totally depraved unable to do good works, unable to obey God unless first acted upon by God?
 

brightfame52

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ernest t bass

Faith comes by hearing the word of God, Rom 10:17,

Yes however hearing comes by being born of God, so a person is already saved when they hear spiritually.
 

brightfame52

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I have asked many times, to no avail, for you to show an example of God commanded some thing of man in order to receive God's free gift and that man's obedience to God's command is called a work of merit.

God commanded of Noah to build an ark to receive God's free gift of salvation from the flood, and Noah obeyed doing all God commanded him. Where does the Bible call Noah's obedience to God a work of merit?
Doesnt matter what you asked, if you condition salvation on what you do, its works and a denial of grace. Read the thread.
 

Reggie Belafonte

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The Works are not of yourself in fact but they come from he Holy Spirit that is working in you.
You do not serve the glory, but it's Christ Jesus who does !
Only works in Christ Jesus are worthy.
That's what it's all about, Abiding in the Vine !

If anyone says look at what I did ! Such is not worthy at all. Jesus will say I never knew you ? Why because such did not abide in Him the Vine ! For this is how one knows our Lord and Saviour, Christ Jesus.

A True Christian does not do everything because one wants to ? but because they are compelled to do so in the Spirit of Grace.
I myself may not want to do something ? But I will do it for the Grace of God with glee. For I am happy to be able too Serve the Lord Jesus. for the Spirit is willing but the body maybe weak.
 

Ernest T. Bass

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Doesnt matter what you asked, if you condition salvation on what you do, its works and a denial of grace. Read the thread.
The fact you are unable or unwilling to answer my simple question proves your argument to be wrong. Again, can you show an example of God commanded some thing of man in order to receive God's free gift and that man's obedience to God's command is called a work of merit?


The Bible clealry puts conditions upon salvation (belief, repentance, confession, baptism) and never is obedience in meeting the conditions called a work of merit. If salvation was UNconditional then all men would unconditionally be saved but all men will not unconditionally be saved for the Bible does not teach salvation by grace only".
 

Ernest T. Bass

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ernest t bass



Yes however hearing comes by being born of God, so a person is already saved when they hear spiritually.
The BIble does NOT say "hearing comes by being born of God" for people are not saved in unbelief Jn 8:24; Jn 3:15-18; Mk 16;16; Jn 5:24; Jn 6:40; Heb 3:12; Heb 4:11; Rom 11:20; Rom 10:10; Rom 10:13-14....
 

brightfame52

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The fact you are unable or unwilling to answer my simple question proves your argument to be wrong. Again, can you show an example of God commanded some thing of man in order to receive God's free gift and that man's obedience to God's command is called a work of merit?


The Bible clealry puts conditions upon salvation (belief, repentance, confession, baptism) and never is obedience in meeting the conditions called a work of merit. If salvation was UNconditional then all men would unconditionally be saved but all men will not unconditionally be saved for the Bible does not teach salvation by grace only".
The fact is, when you condition salvation on anything you do, it automatically defaults to a works salvation, aint no if, buts, or maybes about it !
 

brightfame52

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The BIble does NOT say "hearing comes by being born of God" for people are not saved in unbelief Jn 8:24; Jn 3:15-18; Mk 16;16; Jn 5:24; Jn 6:40; Heb 3:12; Heb 4:11; Rom 11:20; Rom 10:10; Rom 10:13-14....
Jesus tells us who hears the words of God Jn 8:47

47 He who is of God hears God’s words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God.”

Now to be of God is to be saved. Thats who hears Gods words !