Is believing/faith a work ?

[Ernest T. Bass]

The fact is, when you condition salvation on anything you do, it automatically defaults to a works salvation, aint no if, buts, or maybes about it !

This idea of yours is not found in the Bible, it has no Biblical basis. Your refusal to answer the simple question below proves it:

Can you show an example of God commanding some thing of man in order to receive God's free gift and that man's obedience to God's command is called a work of merit?

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Jesus tells us who hears the words of God Jn 8:47

47 He who is of God hears God’s words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God.”

Now to be of God is to be saved. Thats who hears Gods words !

I cited multiple verses that state unbelief is a lost state, yet you argue unbelief is a saved state, that is, one is saved in unbelief. Another idea of yours that has no Biblical basis.





The context of John 8 is the Jews are claiming to be of God v41 and Jesus PROVING they are not of God but instead are of the devil v44.
V42 Jesus gives PROOF they are not of God as they claimed for if they were of God they would have loved Him.


In v47 when Jesus says "He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God."

Jesus is giving more PROOF they are not of God for if they were of God they would have heard God's words Jesus gave them. But since they would not hear His words was PROOF they were not of God as they claimed to be but instead were of the devil.

Hence Jesus is simply giving proof they were not of God. Jesus is not giving any Calvinistic tenet that one must first be of God before one can believe. These Jews Jesus was speaking to here were not atheists for they did believe in God and at one point many did believe on Jesus v30. Though they believed on Him they were still not free but still in bondage to sin. Yet if they would "abide in His word" then they would be free from that bondage of sin v31. But they would not abide in His word giving proof they were not of God as they claimed. The fact they wanted to kill Christ was proof they were not like Abraham v39-40.

Therefore those Jews DID BELIEVE on Him v30, so why did they seek to kill Him v40?
Because their belief of v30 was a 'belief only' and belief only fails to abide in Christ's words, belief only lacks obedience. They would rather kill Him than obey His words whereby they could be free from the bondage of sin.


Even though these Jews were not of God they were not atheists but did believe in God, they did believe on Christ v30 which refutes your argument. The problem here was their TYPE of belief.....they had a belief only rather than an obedient belief in obeying Christ's words whereby they could be freed from the bondage of sin. Though they were the physical descendants of Abraham, they were not the spiritual seed of Abraham ("If ye were Abraham's children" v39) for they sought to kill Christ which was proof they were corrupt and not of God and not like Abraham.

Again, CONTEXT shows Christ is not teaching any Calvinistic tenet but instead Christ is giving proof those Jews were not of God as they claimed to be....if they were of God, then they would have loved Him v42...if they were of God then they would have heard Him v47....John 10:25-26 the fact Jesus told them and they believed not was proof they were not of God for if they were of God as they claimed then they would have been of His sheep. The fact they were not of His sheep is further proof they were not of God as they claimed.

Nothing prevented these Jews from being of Christ's sheep but their own stubborn will in refusing to obey Christ's words. Their not being of Christ sheep is not a culpability of God in failing to unconditionally make these disobedient Jews of Christ's sheep so they could then believe. Again, many believed on Him Jn 8:30 though they were not of Christ's sheep. Their failure to be of Christ's sheep was their belief only of Jn 8:30 which lacked obedience to Christ's words, again proving they were not of God as they claimed.

 

[brightfame52]

This idea of yours is not found in the Bible, it has no Biblical basis. Your refusal to answer the simple question below proves it:

Can you show an example of God commanding some thing of man in order to receive God's free gift and that man's obedience to God's command is called a work of merit?

Sure the bible speaks against salvation by works Eph 2:8-9

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 not of works, lest any man should boast

 

[brightfame52]

I cited multiple verses that state unbelief is a lost state, yet you argue unbelief is a saved state, that is, one is saved in unbelief. Another idea of yours that has no Biblical basis.





The context of John 8 is the Jews are claiming to be of God v41 and Jesus PROVING they are not of God but instead are of the devil v44.
V42 Jesus gives PROOF they are not of God as they claimed for if they were of God they would have loved Him.


In v47 when Jesus says "He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God."

Jesus is giving more PROOF they are not of God for if they were of God they would have heard God's words Jesus gave them. But since they would not hear His words was PROOF they were not of God as they claimed to be but instead were of the devil.

Hence Jesus is simply giving proof they were not of God. Jesus is not giving any Calvinistic tenet that one must first be of God before one can believe. These Jews Jesus was speaking to here were not atheists for they did believe in God and at one point many did believe on Jesus v30. Though they believed on Him they were still not free but still in bondage to sin. Yet if they would "abide in His word" then they would be free from that bondage of sin v31. But they would not abide in His word giving proof they were not of God as they claimed. The fact they wanted to kill Christ was proof they were not like Abraham v39-40.

Therefore those Jews DID BELIEVE on Him v30, so why did they seek to kill Him v40?
Because their belief of v30 was a 'belief only' and belief only fails to abide in Christ's words, belief only lacks obedience. They would rather kill Him than obey His words whereby they could be free from the bondage of sin.


Even though these Jews were not of God they were not atheists but did believe in God, they did believe on Christ v30 which refutes your argument. The problem here was their TYPE of belief.....they had a belief only rather than an obedient belief in obeying Christ's words whereby they could be freed from the bondage of sin. Though they were the physical descendants of Abraham, they were not the spiritual seed of Abraham ("If ye were Abraham's children" v39) for they sought to kill Christ which was proof they were corrupt and not of God and not like Abraham.

Again, CONTEXT shows Christ is not teaching any Calvinistic tenet but instead Christ is giving proof those Jews were not of God as they claimed to be....if they were of God, then they would have loved Him v42...if they were of God then they would have heard Him v47....John 10:25-26 the fact Jesus told them and they believed not was proof they were not of God for if they were of God as they claimed then they would have been of His sheep. The fact they were not of His sheep is further proof they were not of God as they claimed.

Nothing prevented these Jews from being of Christ's sheep but their own stubborn will in refusing to obey Christ's words. Their not being of Christ sheep is not a culpability of God in failing to unconditionally make these disobedient Jews of Christ's sheep so they could then believe. Again, many believed on Him Jn 8:30 though they were not of Christ's sheep. Their failure to be of Christ's sheep was their belief only of Jn 8:30 which lacked obedience to Christ's words, again proving they were not of God as they claimed.

Again, Jesus tells us who it is that hears the word of God in a spiritual sense Jn 8:47

47 He that is of God heareth God’s words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

The same Apostle writes about who hears 1 Jn 4:6


We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

Another statement Jesus made as to who hears the words of Truth Jn 18:37

Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

Now what does " of the truth" mean ?

I believe it means the same as Jn 8:47 That of being of God. And notice the order, being of God or of the Truth precedes the hearing of the Truth.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Sure the bible speaks against salvation by works Eph 2:8-9

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 not of works, lest any man should boast

Salvation is not by works of merit per Eph 2:8-9 but salvation is by obedience to God's will (Rom 6:16; Heb 5:9; Rom 10:9-10; Acts 2:38; etc). And obedience to God's will is never called a work of merit for they are two completely different things.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Again, Jesus tells us who it is that hears the word of God in a spiritual sense Jn 8:47

47 He that is of God heareth God’s words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

The same Apostle writes about who hears 1 Jn 4:6


We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

Another statement Jesus made as to who hears the words of Truth Jn 18:37

Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

Now what does " of the truth" mean ?

I believe it means the same as Jn 8:47 That of being of God. And notice the order, being of God or of the Truth precedes the hearing of the Truth.

Again, you're taking another verse out of context, isolating that verse from all other verses and reading your theology into that verse.

1 John 4, John is not giving a discourse on salvation, he is not giving a lesson on how lost people are saved but teaching those who are already Christians, who already knoweth (present tense) God's word can detect false teachers. Therefore John is not giving an "order" of events in how people are saved.

John tells them false teachers have gone out into the world and they should not just blindly believe all they hear but they are to test, to try these teachers to see if they are of God or not. There were Gnostics at this time who did not believe that Jesus Christ was God in the flesh. Therefore a test is "And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God:". Therefore a false teacher will not confess that Jesus is come in the flesh.


Another test; "he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.; " Those who knoweth (present tense, he that currently is already aquainted with truth and continues to be aquainted with truth) will listen to truth as spoken by John and other Apostles yet false teachers will not hear. Those who currently and ongoingly correctly know God's word are therefore able to detect those who teach a false teaching contrary to God's word.

There is no Calvinism here to be found. "And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God:" does not mean one must first be of God/saved BEFORE one can confess no more than verse 6 means one must be of God/saved BEFORE one can hear, for again, John is not talking about how men are saved therefore he is not giving any "order" of salvation.

The Bible clearly shows confession must come BEFORE being of God/saved (Matt 10:32-33; Rom 10:9-10) not after one is already saved. And that hearing must come before one is of God/saved (Rom 10:13-17) not after one is already saved. The Bible shows unbelief is a lost state, not a saved state. People read Calvinism into various verses creating a host of contradictions but they never take the time to clean up the contradicting messes they create.

 

[brightfame52]

Salvation is not by works of merit per Eph 2:8-9 but salvation is by obedience to God's will (Rom 6:16; Heb 5:9; Rom 10:9-10; Acts 2:38; etc). And obedience to God's will is never called a work of merit for they are two completely different things.

Salvation isnt by works/conditions period. If you condition salvation on anything you do, it defaults to salvation by works and denies grace.

 

[brightfame52]

Again, you're taking another verse out of context, isolating that verse from all other verses and reading your theology into that verse.

1 John 4, John is not giving a discourse on salvation, he is not giving a lesson on how lost people are saved but teaching those who are already Christians, who already knoweth (present tense) God's word can detect false teachers. Therefore John is not giving an "order" of events in how people are saved.

John tells them false teachers have gone out into the world and they should not just blindly believe all they hear but they are to test, to try these teachers to see if they are of God or not. There were Gnostics at this time who did not believe that Jesus Christ was God in the flesh. Therefore a test is "And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God:". Therefore a false teacher will not confess that Jesus is come in the flesh.


Another test; "he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.; " Those who knoweth (present tense, he that currently is already aquainted with truth and continues to be aquainted with truth) will listen to truth as spoken by John and other Apostles yet false teachers will not hear. Those who currently and ongoingly correctly know God's word are therefore able to detect those who teach a false teaching contrary to God's word.

There is no Calvinism here to be found. "And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God:" does not mean one must first be of God/saved BEFORE one can confess no more than verse 6 means one must be of God/saved BEFORE one can hear, for again, John is not talking about how men are saved therefore he is not giving any "order" of salvation.

The Bible clearly shows confession must come BEFORE being of God/saved (Matt 10:32-33; Rom 10:9-10) not after one is already saved. And that hearing must come before one is of God/saved (Rom 10:13-17) not after one is already saved. The Bible shows unbelief is a lost state, not a saved state. People read Calvinism into various verses creating a host of contradictions but they never take the time to clean up the contradicting messes they create.

Again, a person must be of God before they can hear Spiritually. Jesus stated Jn 8:47

47 He that is of God heareth God’s words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Salvation isnt by works/conditions period. If you condition salvation on anything you do, it defaults to salvation by works and denies grace.

Salvation is a working of the Holy Spirit working in one who has Grace. Thereby one is abiding in the Vine.
Noting to do with ones own carnal will power, but that of Christ Jesus working in one abiding in the Holy Spirit in fact.

What one does is give all the glory to Christ Jesus in fact, not of ones self at all in fact, So if one offends one in Christ Jesus then it's only offending our Lord and Saviour ? because such is an attack on Jesus in fact.

Now I know the Carnal man would be offended ? but why should I be offended by a Carnal man, for I know the workings of such a Dupe !

 

[Bible Highlighter]

But Jesus answered them, “My Father has been working until now, and I have been working.” John 5:17

12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure. Philippians 2:12-13

I'm pretty sure that we're just along for the ride, but our faith, our belief, is the result of His work.

I don’t see this as some kind of Calvinism or anything. I see at as God opening the heart of a person to understand the message of God’s Word so they can either choose to accept it or reject of their own free will choice. Without this illumination or working of God upon their heart to see, they would not be able to understand to be able to choose. Christ draws all men to Himself. Without this drawing (work), they cannot believe. But not everyone will choose to believe.

2 Thessalonians 2:10 says that the reason why those who perish are perishing is because they received not the love of the truth that they might be saved. There is no might be saved in Calvinism. Yet, that is what the Bible says plainly.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Salvation isnt by works/conditions period. If you condition salvation on anything you do, it defaults to salvation by works and denies grace.

At the end of Hebrews 10, it says the just shall live by faith.
Then you read examples of that in Hebrews 11.
Yes, there is a belief alone type faith mentioned in Hebrews 11:3.
We are saved by a belief alone in our Initial Salvation, and God imputes or accounts righteousness to us in that event or moment in time in our life (Just as Abraham believed God involving the promise and it was accounted to for righteousness).
But faith does not stop there. Faith is also described as being faithful In the Bible. We see in Hebrews 11:7 that BY FAITH… Noah prepared an Ark to the saving of his household. This was by faith and it is an example of the just living by faith. Paul mentions a thing called the work of faith (1 Thessalonians 1:3) (2 Thessalonians 1:11). James says we are justified by works and not by faith alone. This is salvific because James says that Abraham was justified by works by offering Isaac upon the altar. Yet, in Hebrews 11:17, we learn that BY FAITH… Abraham offered Isaac upon the altar. So his works was a part of his faith. It’s saying the same thing.

So while faith may start off as a belief alone in Jesus as the Savior, it does not remain as a belief alone when we live out our faith. Faith that is lived out includes living holy, doing works of faith, etcetera (By God’s power and working).

So the issue here is one of time.
At one point in time you were saved by a belief alone, but in order to continue in God’s plan of salvation, you need to follow after holiness in regards to faith (Without which no man shall see the Lord - See Hebrews 12:14).

 

[brightfame52]

At the end of Hebrews 10, it says the just shall live by faith.
Then you read examples of that in Hebrews 11.
Yes, there is a belief alone type faith mentioned in Hebrews 11:3.
We are saved by a belief alone in our Initial Salvation, and God imputes or accounts righteousness to us in that event or moment in time in our life (Just as Abraham believed God involving the promise and it was accounted to for righteousness).
But faith does not stop there. Faith is also described as being faithful In the Bible. We see in Hebrews 11:7 that BY FAITH… Noah prepared an Ark to the saving of his household. This was by faith and it is an example of the just living by faith. Paul mentions a thing called the work of faith (1 Thessalonians 1:3) (2 Thessalonians 1:11). James says we are justified by works and not by faith alone. This is salvific because James says that Abraham was justified by works by offering Isaac upon the altar. Yet, in Hebrews 11:17, we learn that BY FAITH… Abraham offered Isaac upon the altar. So his works was a part of his faith. It’s saying the same thing.

So while faith may start off as a belief alone in Jesus as the Savior, it does not remain as a belief alone when we live out our faith. Faith that is lived out includes living holy, doing works of faith, etcetera (By God’s power and working).

So the issue here is one of time.
At one point in time you were saved by a belief alone, but in order to continue in God’s plan of salvation, you need to follow after holiness in regards to faith (Without which no man shall see the Lord - See Hebrews 12:14).

Salvation isnt by works/conditions period. If you condition salvation on anything you do, it defaults to salvation by works and denies grace.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Salvation isnt by works/conditions period. If you condition salvation on anything you do, it defaults to salvation by works and denies grace.

Not so. God’s grace gives us the ability to do the work (1 Corinthians 15:10). God’s grace teaches us to deny ungodliness and that we should live righteously, and godly in this present world (Titus 2:11-12). 2 Thessalonians 2:13 says God has chosen you to salvation through the Sanctification of the Spirit and a belief of the truth. This is a call of the gospel (2 Thessalonians 2:14).

After we are first saved by God’s grace
(A process of salvation without works):
There Are Things We Need To Do As A Part of Eternal Life:

#1. Abide in Jesus and bear fruit to not be cast forth like a branch to be burned in the fire. John 15:6 says if a man does not abide in Him, he is cast forth and burned. See also John 14:23, John 15:4-7, Matthew 3:10.​

​

#2. Abide in the doctrine of Christ. 2 John 1:9 says, Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. See also 2 John 1:5-8.​

​

#3. Know Jesus. John 17:3 says eternal life is in knowing the one true God, Jesus Christ. Knowing implies a fellowship. So if you don't know Jesus, then you don't have life (Salvation). 1 John 2:3 says, “And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.”​

​

#4. Do not stumble at the Word being disobedient (1 Peter 2:8). See also: 2 Timothy 3:1-9.​

Be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves (James 1:22). See John 8:47. See 2 Timothy 3:13.​

​

#5. Be like the faithful servant of the Lord (being faithful over a few things) whereby he entered into the joy of his Lord and do not be like the unprofitable servant who was cast into outer darkness – (Matthew 25:23) (Matthew 25:30).​

​

#6. Have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. (Romans 6:22).​

​

#7. Be not be weary (tired) and faint not in sowing to the Spirit to reap life everlasting. This sowing to the Spirit is “well doing” (good works) (See Galatians 6:8-9).​

​

#8. Put to death the deeds of the body by the Spirit to live.​

For if you live after the flesh, you shall die: but if you through the Spirit do mortify (put to death) the deeds of the body (sin), you shall live. (Romans 8:13).​

​

#9. Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, (1 Timothy 6:12).​

​

#10. Be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. (Romans 12:2). Hebrews 10:36 says: “For you have need of endurance, so that after you have done the will of God, you may receive the promise:” 1 John 2:15 says: “Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.”​

​

#11. Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord: (Hebrews 12:14).​

​

#12. Obey Jesus in order to be a part of all those in whom Jesus became the author of eternal salvation for. How so? Well, because Hebrews 5:9 says, “And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;”​

This is just a small sampling of this list. There are even more things on this list (of which it does not sound like doing nothing to enter the Kingdom).

I mean, Jesus even said in Matthew 7:26-27 that everyone who does not do what He says is like a fool who built His house upon the sand and when a storm came, great was the fall of that house. Meaning, a person will not be saved if they don’t obey the words of Jesus. See also John 12:48. But if you want to gamble your own soul against the testimony of Scripture I have shown here, then that is your choice (of course).

 

[brightfame52]

Not so. God’s grace gives us the ability to do the work (1 Corinthians 15:10). God’s grace teaches us to deny ungodliness and that we should live righteously, and godly in this present world (Titus 2:11-12). 2 Thessalonians 2:13 says God has chosen you to salvation through the Sanctification of the Spirit and a belief of the truth. This is a call of the gospel (2 Thessalonians 2:14).

After we are first saved by God’s grace
(A process of salvation without works):
There Are Things We Need To Do As A Part of Eternal Life:

#1. Abide in Jesus and bear fruit to not be cast forth like a branch to be burned in the fire. John 15:6 says if a man does not abide in Him, he is cast forth and burned. See also John 14:23, John 15:4-7, Matthew 3:10.​

​

#2. Abide in the doctrine of Christ. 2 John 1:9 says, Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. See also 2 John 1:5-8.​

​

#3. Know Jesus. John 17:3 says eternal life is in knowing the one true God, Jesus Christ. Knowing implies a fellowship. So if you don't know Jesus, then you don't have life (Salvation). 1 John 2:3 says, “And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.”​

​

#4. Do not stumble at the Word being disobedient (1 Peter 2:8). See also: 2 Timothy 3:1-9.​

Be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves (James 1:22). See John 8:47. See 2 Timothy 3:13.​

​

#5. Be a faithful servant of the Lord (being faithful over a few things) in order to enter into the joy of the Lord and do not be an unprofitable servant so as to be cast into the outer darkness – (Matthew 25:23) (Matthew 25:30).​

​

#6. Have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. (Romans 6:22).​

​

#7. Be not be weary (tired) and faint not in sowing to the Spirit to reap life everlasting. This sowing to the Spirit is “well doing” (good works) (See Galatians 6:8-9).​

​

#8. Put to death the deeds of the body by the Spirit to live.​

For if you live after the flesh, you shall die: but if you through the Spirit do mortify (put to death) the deeds of the body (sin), you shall live. (Romans 8:13).​

​

#9. Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, (1 Timothy 6:12).​

​

#10. Be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. (Romans 12:2). Hebrews 10:36 says: “For you have need of endurance, so that after you have done the will of God, you may receive the promise:” 1 John 2:15 says: “Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.”​

​

#11. Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord: (Hebrews 12:14).​

​

#12. Obey Jesus in order to be a part of all those in whom Jesus became the author of eternal salvation for. How so? Well, because Hebrews 5:9 says, “And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;”​

This is just a small sampling of this list. There are even more things on this list (of which it does not sound like doing nothing to enter the Kingdom).

I mean, Jesus even said in Matthew 7:26-27 that everyone who does not do what He says is like a fool who built His house upon the sand and when a storm came, great was the fall of that house. Meaning, a person will not be saved if they don’t obey the words of Jesus. See also John 12:48. But if you want to gamble your own soul against the testimony of Scripture I have shown here, then that is your choice (of course).

If you condition salvation, any part of it, on something done by you, its promoting self righteousness, and salvation by works, and forsakes the way of Grace.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

If you condition salvation, any part of it, on something done by you, it’s promoting self righteousness, and salvation by works, and forsakes the way of Grace.

It appears you are only repeating what you are taught or only what you want to be true. The verses I provided disproves your belief.

 

[brightfame52]

It appears you are only repeating what you are taught or only what you want to be true. The verses I provided disproves your belief.

I am repeating what I was taught, taught by God, if you condition any part of salvation on what you do, its salvation by works, and the verses I have provided in this thread proves my witness true ! You just think the verses you provided makes your point, but you are deceived.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I am repeating what I was taught, taught by God, if you condition any part of salvation on what you do, its salvation by works, and the verses I have provided in this thread proves my witness true ! You just think the verses you provided makes your point, but you are deceived.

Yes. The Scriptures do make my point. If you are correct in your claims, then you need to back them up by explaining the verses. Otherwise your claims are just empty in light of what we read plainly in the Bible.

 

[brightfame52]

Yes. The Scriptures do make my point. If you are correct in your claims, then you need to back them up by explaining the verses. Otherwise your claims are just empty in light of what we read plainly in the Bible.

I am correct, and I have backed up my point, I started this thread doing that. If you condition salvation to any degree on anything you did, you have forsaken grace salvation and promote salvation by works. Salvation is 110% the Work of God from eternity to eternity !

 

[mailmandan]

That salvation is by grace through faith and is not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9) is not hard to understand. It's just hard for works-salvationists to ACCEPT. It's a shame that human pride will not allow works-salvationists to place their faith exclusively in Jesus Christ for salvation. (Romans 4:5-6) Their hands are full of their works and they will not let go in order to receive Christ through faith.

 

[brightfame52]

That salvation is by grace through faith and is not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9) is not hard to understand. It's just hard for works-salvationists to ACCEPT. It's a shame that human pride will not allow works-salvationists to place their faith exclusively in Jesus Christ for salvation. (Romans 4:5-6) Their hands are full of their works and they will not let go in order to receive Christ through faith.

If you condition salvation on anything done by man, it defaults to salvation by works.