Is believing/faith a work ?

[Ernest T. Bass]

Again if you condition any part of salvation on what you do, its a works merit salvation and totally repudiates grace.

You can repoeat this a million times but cannot find it in the Bible the first time.

Nowhere ever does the Bible call obedience to God a work of merit.

Hopefully others will see the faultiness of your arguments and do not fall into the trap you have allowed yourself to fall into.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Those things are written so that we will not be like them, the unsaved, of whom Christ says I never knew you.

Sorry. The Scripture verses whereby we are given such warnings are written to believers and not unbelievers.

In any church there are divisions, and some certain number are unsaved, as they were never born again.

This is true if they hold to false doctrines from the beginning (like a sin and still be saved type belief), but this does not undo the warnings I provided in Scripture (that you are not dealing with).

Here are scriptures that plainly show your opinion wrong
John 10:27-29
New King James Version
27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.

Notice verse 27 in WHO is it is referring to here. SHEEP who hear His voice and FOLLOW Jesus. If one is not following Jesus in doing what He says then they don’t have eternal life. A person can start off following Jesus like Judas once did, but they can later fall away due to sin or transgression. The Scriptures say Judas fell by transgression and that he was once a sheep (Matthew 10:16). If not, then you must believe God chooses devils for the office of discipleship. But what fellowship does light have with darkness? Even the office of a bishop is one who is to be blameless. How much more so for a disciple of Jesus?

God makes the tree (person) either a good fruit bearing person, or they remain a bad fruit bearing person. The good fruit bearing cannot bear bad fruit and be condemned, so what you're saying contradicts Christ's words. The good fruit bearing is the fruit of the Spirit in a born of God person's life, not their old man of the flesh that perishes. Romans 8, the body is dead because of sin, but still the born of God person remains saved because they are more than their old nature.

In Romans 8:13 it is gives you the choice. It says (to reader believe): if you live after the flesh, you will die (Which you believe is not possible), but if you put to death the misdeeds of the body by the Spirit, you will live (live eternally). Same concept being taught in Galatians 6:8-9. In Galatians 6:8-9: (talking to the reader who is a believer), ”For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.” Listen to verse 9. It says to us (the reader/believer) that US not be weary (tired) in “well doing” (good works by our sowing to the Spirit to reap life everlasting) for we will reap if we faint not (if we do not pass out from exhaustion in doing good). Doesn’t sound like your belief is being described here unless you twist Scripture.

9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

This is not permanent if you were to read verses 12-13.

12 ”Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.” (Romans 8:12-13).

Verse 12: Talking to the reader/believer says: We are debtors not to live after the flesh (sin or being under the 613 Laws of Moses).
Verse 13: Again gives you the reader or believer the choice to either live after sin and die, or mortify (put to death) sin by the Spirit in order to have eternal life.

For God has chosen us to salvation through the Sanctification of the Spirit and a belief of the truth in 2 Thessalonians 2:13.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Matthew 7
15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

Matthew 7
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

We have to be careful of taking certain verses to be an absolute truth. The verses I already provided prove one can fall away. We are told to continue in his goodness otherwise we can be cut off In Romans 11.

In fact, why did these types of believers never know Jesus? It’s because they did not do what Jesus said (Matthew 7:26-27). Do you believe in helping the poor, preaching the gospel, loving the brethren, loving your enemies as conditions of being saved? Or do you believe you are forced against your will to do these things? Do you find yourself every day just automatically helping the poor, loving the brethren, and preaching the gospel and you wondered how you did it all that day? Why would Jesus give us the Parable of the Sheep and Goats if it was not for the purpose to let us know that if we don’t do anything, we will be condemned? There should be no such warning if we are changed and born again… we will just automatically do such things. No warnings like this should ever be in the Bible ever. It would be a useless scare tactic for those who are born again. For If you believe the born again can never perish, then no such warnings should exist in the Bible. That’s what is illogical about your belief. You have to re-write Scripture at every turn of the page.

Matthew 12
33 “Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or else make the tree bad and its fruit bad; for a tree is known by its fruit. 34 Brood[f] of vipers! How can you, being evil, speak good things? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. 35 A good man out of the good treasure [g]of his heart brings forth good things, and an evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth evil things. 36 But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment. 37 For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.”

You actually highlighted a verse that refutes your false belief. It’s telling YOU (the reader / believer) to MAKE the tree good. You have the choice or decision to make the tree good or bad. The choice is yours just like Adam and Eve had a choice to choose the good tree or the bad tree. Their hand was not forced to disobey. Jesus is telling these brood of vipers to make the tree good. They have a choice.

John the Baptist said bring forth fruits worthy of repentance because the ax is laid to the root of the tree (Matthew 3:10).
This means if one sought forgiveness with the Lord and they are not doing the good works worthy of seeking forgiveness with the Lord, they will be cut down by an ax (being like a tree to be cut down). It’s a choice.

1 Corinthians 11
Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, 2 all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, 3 all ate the same spiritual food, 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ. 5 But with most of them God was not well pleased, for their bodies were scattered in the wilderness.

Notice verse 3. It says that the Israelites (who passed through the Red Sea) drank of that spiritual Rock and that rock was Jesus Christ.
So they abided in Christ when they put the blood on the doorposts, and they crossed the Red Sea. But they fell later due to unbelief in the wilderness. Their hearts were later hardened by the deceitfulness of sin and they departed from the living God (Hebrews 3).

6 Now these things became our examples, to the intent that we should not lust after evil things as they also lusted. 7 And do not become idolaters as were some of them. As it is written, “The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.” 8 Nor let us commit sexual immorality, as some of them did, and in one day twenty-three thousand fell; 9 nor let us [a]tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed by serpents; 10 nor complain, as some of them also complained, and were destroyed by the destroyer. 11 Now [b]all these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our [c]admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.

Right, they are examples that WE should not lust after evil things because the same thing that happened to them can happen to us. That is why they are examples. If you were locked in and born again and never could perish, then you don’t need any examples to scare you into obeying. You would just be a mindless puppet to obey. No such examples would be needed ever. This is why this passage supports conditional salvation and not unconditional salvation.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

1 Peter 1

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 to an inheritance [b]incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

You are reading the idea of salvation being UNCONDITIONAL in your posts. As above for example, the verse does NOT say God unconditionally keeps Christians regardless of how the Christian lives. It does teach Christians are kept CONDITIONALLY BY FAITH. Those who abandon and cast off their faith are no longer kept by God. Rom 11, during the OT the Jews were God's chosen people yet because of unbelief they were cast off, God did not keep them as His chosen, elect people UNCONDITIONALLY regardless to how they lived. And in the context of Rom 11 the Jews were cast off and Gentiles grafted in yet God warns those Gentiles not to get highminded else they will be cast off just as the Jews also. If the Gentiles turn from God in unbeleif as the Jews did, they will experience that same fate in being cast off and lost, separated from God.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Another verse set proving eternal salvation for those born of God.
And we have passed from death into life when we believe. There is no going backwards for those who God has saved, it is called eternal salvation.

1 John 3
8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil.

9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

You opinion contradicts what John says here. John is not speaking of the flesh, the body which is dead becuase of sin, John is speaking of the new creation in Christ, the new spirit God created in righteousness and holiness within a man.

FLESH AND BLOOD DOES NOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD.

Again, it’s not talking in absolutes here that the born again cannot ever fall away back into sin.

We know this because the Bible teaches elsewhere:

”Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.” (2 Peter 3:17).

“Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.” (1 Corinthians 10:12).

You cannot fall if you are locked in and born again. Paul should know better and say that the reader should make sure they are born again so that they never have to worry about falling.

So 1 John 3:9 does not mean that “the believer cannot sin ever“ because if that was the case then no believer could ever sin ever when they slip up. John tells the brethren to “sin not” in 1 John 2:1. Again, this is not possible if their condition was that they could never sin ever again.

When the Prodigal Son came home, his father said that his son (who went prodigal) was "dead" and now is "alive AGAIN." The father also said that his son was "lost" and he is "found." The words "dead," "alive AGAIN," "lost," and "found" are speaking in spiritual terms. The son was dead when he was living in riotous sins with prostitute women, and when he came back home and sought out his father's forgiveness, he received it. He was dead, and he became alive again. This makes no sense to say these kinds of words if what you believe is true in the fact that no believer can die spiritually again and then come back to the saving of their soul again via repentance.

Also, James 5:19-20 also confirms this truth, as well.

James 5:19-20
”Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.”

So if a person errs or falls away from the truth (by going back into a life of sin) and another brother converts Him back to following Jesus again (by getting them to seek forgiveness with the Lord over their prodigal life), they should know that they helped convert this sinning believer from their error of their ways and they helped to save a soul from death, and to hide a multitude of their sins.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

1 Peter 1

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 to an inheritance [b]incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

In 2 Peter 1:3, it says, “divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness,”:

BUT…. We also have to the following things like add to your faith… virtue, and to virtue… add knowledge…. And to knowledge… self control… etcetera. For if these things abound in you…. You will never fall or stumble and an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. So it’s condition you have to meet. It’s not just going to happen if you just believe on Jesus as your Savior really hard the rest of your life and you do nothing else besides that.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

2 Thessalonians 2, God from the beginning before time began CHOSE YOU FOR SALVATION in eternity past as one of His works, and all Gods works were finished after 6 days and then God rested.

Which is why you are saved, and then Paul describes the process God did IN TIME, as in our time.

13 But we are [f]bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through [g]sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth, 14 to which He called you by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our [h]epistle.

So how does this undo the fact that Sanctification of the Spirit is not a part of salvation?
We know that Sanctification of the Spirit (living holy) is a part of salvation because Galatians 6:8-9 and Romans 8:13 also declare this truth, as well. The Bible would just focus on telling you to be born again and it would never tell you to worry about Sanctification by the Spirit as a part of salvation.

You are told to follow after holiness without which no man shall see the LORD.
If you are born again… no such warning should ever be given to follow after holiness, etcetera.

16 Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself, and our God and Father, who has loved us and given us everlasting consolation and good hope by grace, 17 comfort your hearts and [i]establish you in every good word and work.

Again, this is not forced against us. We are to affirm constantly good works (Titus 3:8), and we are to let others learn to do good works so that they be not unfruitful (Titus 3:14). If they were all just born again there would be no need for such a warning.

Jesus even gives us the parable of the Talents and warns that the unprofitable servant will be cast into outer darkness (Matthew 25:30).
This again would be a useless parable in warning us if the born again would just automatically just bear fruit. The point of the parable should tell us to be born again and not to focus on worrying about if we are faithful over a few things so as not to be unprofitable.

Hebrews 4
3 For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said:

“So I swore in My wrath,
‘They shall not enter My rest,’ ”
although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. 4 For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”; 5 and again in this place: “They shall not enter My rest.”

Skip back a chapter and it is a warning to not let your heart be deceived by the deceitfulness of sin so as to harden it whereby you would depart from the living God. You cannot depart from the living God unless you were already with the living God. You cannot depart from PIT airport unless you were in Pittsburgh airport.

God grants faith to those who are His foreknown people and grants only them to come to Christ.

Romans 12
3 For I say, through the grace given to me, to everyone who is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, as God has dealt to each one a measure of faith.

Right because God resists the proud and he gives grace to the humble (James 4:6). Any time we sin or we justify sin we are proud. For Paul warns us that if any man speaks contrary to the words of Jesus Christ and the doctrine according to godliness, he is proud and he knows nothing (1 Timothy 6:3-4). We must be humble by submitting to His Word and God is not going to force you to do that. You have to choose to do that just as Adam and Eve had a choice.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

@Scott Downey

Why would Jesus give us warnings against how sin can destroy our soul in Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, Matthew 12:37, etcetera if all you have to do is be born again and not ever have to worry about sin? For if one is born again, they will just automatically just do the right thing according to you. They don’t have to work out their salvation with FEAR and trembling (Philippians 2:12). They do not have to be told to cleanse themselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit perfecting holiness in the FEAR of God (2 Corinthians 7:1). They are born again and no warning should ever be given to them. They are changed and they don’t have to worry about Paul’s admonishment in Romans 12:2.

Romans 12:2
“And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.”

If one believes they are born again there is no need to worry about any of the warnings in the Bible. They will just believe they have to wait on God to move in their life to live holy and that will never happen (Unless they choose to do so).

Hebrews 10:36 says,
“For you have need of endurance, so that after you have done the will of God, you may receive the promise:”

1 Timothy 6:12 (Which is a command) says fight the good fight of faith and lay hold on eternal life.

Again, why are we commanded to fight the good fight of faith if we are born again and locked into the kingdom never having to worry about our status with God? It makes no sense.

 

[Scott Downey]

Again, it’s not talking in absolutes here that the born again cannot ever fall away back into sin.

We know this because the Bible teaches elsewhere:

”Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.” (2 Peter 3:17).

“Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.” (1 Corinthians 10:12).

You cannot fall if you are locked in and born again. Paul should know better and say that the reader should make sure they are born again so that they never have to worry about falling.

So 1 John 3:9 does not mean that “the believer cannot sin ever“ because if that was the case then no believer could ever sin ever when they slip up. John tells the brethren to “sin not” in 1 John 2:1. Again, this is not possible if their condition was that they could never sin ever again.

When the Prodigal Son came home, his father said that his son (who went prodigal) was "dead" and now is "alive AGAIN." The father also said that his son was "lost" and he is "found." The words "dead," "alive AGAIN," "lost," and "found" are speaking in spiritual terms. The son was dead when he was living in riotous sins with prostitute women, and when he came back home and sought out his father's forgiveness, he received it. He was dead, and he became alive again. This makes no sense to say these kinds of words if what you believe is true in the fact that no believer can die spiritually again and then come back to the saving of their soul again via repentance.

Also, James 5:19-20 also confirms this truth, as well.

James 5:19-20
”Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.”

So if a person errs or falls away from the truth (by going back into a life of sin) and another brother converts Him back to following Jesus again (by getting them to seek forgiveness with the Lord over their prodigal life), they should know that they helped convert this sinning believer from their error of their ways and they helped to save a soul from death, and to hide a multitude of their sins.

It is GOD who grants repentance. You are missing that part also. I can see you are not accepting the scriptures I already posted and seek to pit the scripture against itself. Do you know that some people get no rewards and are scarcely saved. We will all of us in the sheepfold be judged for the things done in the body, but as believers have passed from death to life as we believed by being born of God, logically what you're saying is a person who sins and falls and repents and sins and fall and repents is saved, not saved, saved again. Therefore, they must be born again over and over and over. Are you really willing to accept that kind of faith-nonfaith relationship over and over?

2 Timothy 2

19 Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of [g]Christ depart from iniquity.”

20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay, some for honor and some for dishonor. 21 Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor, [h]sanctified and useful for the Master, prepared for every good work. 22 Flee also youthful lusts; but pursue righteousness, faith, love, peace with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart. 23 But avoid foolish and ignorant disputes, knowing that they generate strife. 24 And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient, 25 in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth, 26 and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

It is GOD who grants repentance. You are missing that part also.

While I believe the King James Bible is the divinely inspired perfect Word of God, I also do realize that it had an influence even upon Modern Bibles with the use of archaic words (i.e. 1600’s English).

The modern understanding or rendering on 2 Timothy 2:25 would be:

2 Timothy 2:25 says:
“who is gentle as you correct your opponents,
for it may be that God will give them the opportunity to repent and come to know the truth.”

So it’s talking about giving them an opportunity to repent and it’s not God forcing anything upon them.

In fact, Jesus told people to repent or they will perish (Luke 13:3). This would not make any sense for Jesus to tell them to do that if they were incapable of doing so.

I can see you are not accepting the scriptures I already posted and seek to pit the scripture against itself. Do you know that some people get no rewards and are scarcely saved.

Lets see where the Bible talks about being scarcely saved.

1 Peter 4:18-19 says:
18 ”And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?
19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.”

I see verse 19 encouraging the believers to suffer according to the will of God in keeping their souls in well doing, and not based on them doing nothing whereby they don’t get any rewards.

Granted, I do believe babies who die are saved by God’s grace without having any faith.
The man on his deathbed who accepts Jesus as His Savior can be saved by God’s grace without works (With faith).
But the person who lives out their faith must obey God as a part of the faith. It’s conditional and not unconditional.

The Bible uses words like:

Continue in the faith.
Continue in God’s grace.
Continue in his goodness.
Keep yourselves in the love of God.

Such sayings don’t make any sense if it is all forced upon you once you are regenerated.

We will all of us in the sheepfold be judged for the things done in the body, but as believers have passed from death to life as we believed by being born of God, logically what you're saying is a person who sins and falls and repents and sins and fall and repents is saved, not saved, saved again. Therefore, they must be born again over and over and over.

No. If a person is born into this world, they can die and be brought back to life by medics in an ambulance. That does not mean that their being brought back to life means they are given another birth certificate.

Gotquestions has an article that says that a believer is characterized by living a life of holiness, but they also say that a backslidden Christian who lived in sin is still saved.

Is a backsliding Christian still saved? | GotQuestions.org

Is a backsliding / backslidden Christian still saved? How far can a true Christian backslide?

www.gotquestions.org

This means that they are teaching that a prodigal son could potentially be saved while he was living it up with prostitutes.
So if sin does not endanger your soul, then there is no reason to live holy or righteously.
You can just go on sinning and think you are saved by a belief alone in Jesus.
Even if you believe that a Christian is not to practice sin (whatever that means), if you teach that 1 John 1:8 is an excuse to sin occasionally in this life (this side of Heaven), and man cannot help but to sin again, then one is turning God’s grace into a license for immorality (Jude 1:4).

Are you really willing to accept that kind of faith-nonfaith relationship over and over?

2 Timothy 2

19 Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of [g]Christ depart from iniquity.”

Why are they being told to depart from iniquity if it is just automatic to being born again?

20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay, some for honor and some for dishonor. 21 Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor, [h]sanctified and useful for the Master, prepared for every good work. 22 Flee also youthful lusts; but pursue righteousness, faith, love, peace with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart. 23 But avoid foolish and ignorant disputes, knowing that they generate strife. 24 And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient, 25 in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth, 26 and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will.

Again, this is referring to giving them an opportunity to repent by hearing the gospel message. Faith comes by hearing and hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17). It’s not forced upon people. That would make the judgment a joke if God forced salvation upon some and he did not choose to save others. No man could be held accountable for rejecting the truth if that was the case.

Yet, in 2 Thessalonians 2:10 it says that the reason why those who perish are perishing is because THEY RECEIVED NOT the love of the truth that they MIGHT be saved. There is no MIGHT be saved in Calvinism. Yet, it’s in my Bible.

 

[brightfame52]

The Bible is full of examples of God's free gifts having conditions, you ignore this for it does not fit Calvinistic ideas. Rom 5:1-2 faith gives access to grace therefore faith is a condition to receiving grace yet you have the faithless unconditionally receiving grace....the exact opposite of the Bible.

Salvation is conditional upon obedience to God's will ("obedience unto righeousness" Rom 6:16) for no verse teaches those who live in disobedience will unconditionally be saved in their unremitted sins. The fact you cannot prove from the Bible that obedience to God is ever called a work of merit is another nail in the faith onlyism coffin.....obedience and works of merit are two different things. Hence your above statement continues to have no Biblical basis.

No way around it, if you condition salvation on anything you do, thats works and deny's Salvation by Grace through Faith.

 

[brightfame52]

You took that one verse out of context and isolated that verse from all other context and read your Calvinism into that verses. You have unbelievers saved/be of God which is completely antithical to what the Bible teaches. Verses speak of unbelief s a lost state you claim it is a saved state creating contradictions which you never bother yourself to rectify.

That one verse is enough to make the point.

 

[brightfame52]

You have not yet shown the first verse that calls obedience to God a work of merit.
You have no shown the first verse that says unbeleivers are unconditionally saved/of God.

So far you have taken verses out of context and creat a host of contradictions.

Like I said, read the thread, I have made my point with scripture. If you condition salvation on anything you do, its works and a repudiation of Grace Salvation !

 

[brightfame52]

You can repoeat this a million times but cannot find it in the Bible the first time.

Nowhere ever does the Bible call obedience to God a work of merit.

Hopefully others will see the faultiness of your arguments and do not fall into the trap you have allowed yourself to fall into.

Im not worried about what you say, I have made the point, it stands, regardless if you or anyone else thinks so or not. You promote salvation by works if you condition it on anything you do, if its nothing but blinking your eye !

 

[brightfame52]

Both faith and repentance are our works when we make them conditions that we perform in order to get God to save us, but instead, both faith and repentance should be understood to be Christ achieved blessings of the covenant, His Gifts given to them He shed His Blood for.

This understanding takes them out of the realm of being works salvation, and constitutes them works that follow salvation Eph 2:9-10

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

In other words, both faith and repentance are not the causes of Salvation, but the fruit of Salvation ! 28

 

[brightfame52]

Man making a freewill decision to so call accept Christ, resulting in his or her salvation, thats works, however God choosing a man or woman who has been chosen by God, resulting in their Salvation is Grace. Rom 11:5-6

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Once on is truly Saved, one can not go back to your vomit !
If one thinks you can go back to your vomit, then you were never truly Saved in the first place in fact.
Once truly Saved you are His, Body and he is the head their of in fact.

It's Jesus who Saves ! not Man, Man can not Save your Soul at all in fact.

Your Religion can not Save your Soul, Only Jesus can do that.

One of Little faith is not Saved but such is on the path that leads too Glory but for the Weeds of this world will grow up and strangle the one of small faith, they can not take root in Christ Jesus truly, so as too deal with the weeds in fact. but that spark may always be their, so as to grow in the future, given time they may come back and take root and grow too know Jesus is truly the Christ in fact.

Many people do not truly know or understand that Jesus is the Christ 100 % !

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Like I said, read the thread, I have made my point with scripture. If you condition salvation on anything you do, its works and a repudiation of Grace Salvation !

Like I said, you can repeat this a million times but it has no Bible basis, you are making it up out of thin air. Works of merit and obedience are two completely different, opposite things. The fact there is no example in the BIble of obedience to God's will being called a work of merit exposes your statement as false.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Once on is truly Saved, one can not go back to your vomit !
If one thinks you can go back to your vomit, then you were never truly Saved in the first place in fact.
Once truly Saved you are His, Body and he is the head their of in fact.

It's Jesus who Saves ! not Man, Man can not Save your Soul at all in fact.

Your Religion can not Save your Soul, Only Jesus can do that.

One of Little faith is not Saved but such is on the path that leads too Glory but for the Weeds of this world will grow up and strangle the one of small faith, they can not take root in Christ Jesus truly, so as too deal with the weeds in fact. but that spark may always be their, so as to grow in the future, given time they may come back and take root and grow too know Jesus is truly the Christ in fact.

Many people do not truly know or understand that Jesus is the Christ 100 % !

2 Peter chapter 2 makes no sense if OSAS were true.

"But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire."

In an effort to overturn this proverb, OSASers claim the dog and the sow were "never really saved", that is, the dog was always a lost dog and the sow was always a lost sow.

But the proverb is not teaching both were never really saved but instead shows the dog had once expelled the sin and the sow once had its sin washed away. Then the proverb shows both as having returned to their sinfulness by the dog eating again the sin it had once expelled and the sow wallowing in sin it had once washed off.

Peter is picturing apostates, who had once been forgiven of sins, they are now pictured as dogs and sows eating vomit again and wallowing in mire again.

 

[brightfame52]

Like I said, you can repeat this a million times but it has no Bible basis, you are making it up out of thin air. Works of merit and obedience are two completely different, opposite things. The fact there is no example in the BIble of obedience to God's will being called a work of merit exposes your statement as false.

If you condition salvation on anything you do, its works merit Salvation and denies Salvation by Grace through Faith !