Is Faith Healing Really from God?

[1stCenturyLady]

Unintentional sin.

Good! Me too. There is something you must do. Forgive all your fellow Christian brethren who have unintentionally sinned against you. That keeps you constantly without sin and cleansed. Matthew 6:14-15; 1 John 1:7; 1 John 5:18. This is necessary before taking communion. Disunity with the brethren is how we partake unworthily.

 

[JohnPaul]

Good! Me too. There is something you must do. Forgive all your fellow Christian brethren who have unintentionally sinned against you. That keeps you constantly without sin and cleansed. Matthew 6:14-15; 1 John 1:7; 1 John 5:18. This is necessary before taking communion. Disunity with the brethren is how we partake unworthily.

I do forgive those who have done me wrong, I no longer partake in Communion since I left the Catholic Church,

 

[dev553344]

Imagine that you are among a crowd of people who have just witnessed a severely paralyzed man being healed before their very eyes. The healer told the man: “Get up and pick up your bed and be on your way home.” And the man did just that! He was no longer paralyzed! No wonder that those present “began to glorify God”! (Luke 5:18-26) This cure, performed by Jesus Christ almost 2,000 years ago, very clearly had God’s approval.

What about today? Is miraculous healing still a reliable cure and evidence of the actions of God's spirit for those who can find no medical solution to their illness or infirmity? Jesus and his disciples performed healing miracles....no doubt about it.....

Matthew 10:1, 5-8....
“So he [Jesus] summoned his 12 disciples and gave them authority over unclean spirits, in order to expel these and to cure every sort of disease and every sort of infirmity. . .
These 12 Jesus sent out, giving them these instructions: “Do not go off into the road of the nations, and do not enter any Sa·marʹi·tan city; 6 but instead, go continually to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 As you go, preach, saying: ‘The Kingdom of the heavens has drawn near.’ 8 Cure the sick, raise up the dead, make lepers clean, expel demons. You received free, give free.”

Faith healers today claim to imitate them.....can they?
Do we understand why Jesus performed miracles and gave his disciples the same power of holy spirit to perform them too? Do we understand the connection between preaching about "the Kingdom of the Heavens" and the miracles that took place?

What role does "faith" play in these healings?

Do modern day "healings" mirror those of the first century? If so, how? If not why not?
What about the failures? Whose fault is that?

Why do we not see the 'raising of the dead', since this was given to the first century disciples as well? It is supposed to be the same "holy spirit" that is responsible for these modern day miracles, so why is it lacking?

What are your thoughts?

We do see raising from the dead. My brother was raised from the dead in a way, he was not expected to live and died for 15 minutes. And then there is this story:https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...n-nation-mom-prays-son-back-to-life/22883985/

That said, and with the nature of this thread OP I have to warn people not to say healings are not from God. Jesus warned people of the unforgivable sin against the Holy Spirit. Saying healings are from the devil might be that sin.

 

[Pearl]

I have been healed by God at least twice in unusual circumstances.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I do forgive those who have done me wrong, I no longer partake in Communion since I left the Catholic Church,

If you left the Catholic Church then stop believing they are the only place you can partake of the Lord's Supper. You need to partake for the right reasons, not myths.

 

[Randy Kluth]

it's a nice thought, about some sort of corporate dispensation of the Holy Spirit to the Church. But the most I'm aware of is a visitation. The Indwelling Spirit is for individual believers. It is the reason we are equipped with internal temples. The Holy Spirit will never again dwell in a temple made by human hands.

I'm not 100% sure what you mean here? It's not a "nice thought" I'm after, but rather, a *true thought!* To verify a belief, I have to experience it. But it is always affirmed or condemned by God's word, both by the Scriptures and by words given to our conscience.

The Spirit has been corporately given to the Church since the Day of Pentecost. Are you questioning that?

Many Pentecostals believe that there is a 2nd or 3rd work of God after regeneration, indicating by the speaking of tongues that the Spirit Baptism has been received. And this is *after* Salvation!

I don't believe that. I just believe that less spiritual Christians are either nominal Christians with a very limited experience or regenerated Christians with poor knowledge and practice. Regeneration comes with a complete transfer of ownership from us to Christ. We either live for him or for ourselves.

I lived most of my youth with a lot of ignorance, even though I was raised up weekly in church. I had lots of very dry Bible Study, but experiencing that truth seemed to be confined to "keeping the 10 Commandments."

It was only when I began to understand that God wanted all of me that I started walking in the Spirit properly, instead of just being a "good Christian." I guess I never realized that in the Law God had told Israel to be careful not to mix with the world.

Much of my upbringing was mixed with the world, or with nominal Christians, due to my parents' conflicts. They also were just "good Christians," but due to their lack of practice were not very "spiritual Christians."

So when I began to compromise with the world, I began to understand that I needed to stay away from pagans and from their lifestyles, and away from lukewarm Christians, who tended to compromise with the world. When I began to obey God in this I experienced more of a regular experience of the Spirit.

So I think all good Christians have access to the spiritual life. They may only be missing out due to their failure to purify their lives from influences that "suck them dry."

 

[Randy Kluth]

Jesus said to be born again, so that is what people should be taught. It shouldn't be surprising that the natural mind doesn't desire the things of the Spirit. Which is why the fear of God should be leveraged to get people to take the first step. So they can have the benefit of the Spirit's teaching to lead them fully into God's will.

You have to understand what "born again" means. It means that in contrast to OT covenant relationship with God a person enters into a NT relationship with God. That is being "regenerated" by the Spirit, who gives us life through Christ's redemption.

So we are told we need to be "saved," or to receive Eternal Life. If we were raised Christians we were already raised with that understanding, and the exhortation to become "Born Again" is meaningless.

Jesus told this to Nicodemus even before he had won his redemption. Jesus was surprised that Nicodemus didn't understand spiritual truth, which was already existent under the old covenant.

So the exhortation to become "born again" is something OT believers would understand as an "add on" to their already existing spiritual experience, so that Salvation is added to their faith.

For those who don't yet have a genuine spiritual experience, whether pagans or nominal adherents to faith, they need to receive both spiritual life and regeneration for eternal life.

I do agree that spiritual understanding must first be received in order to take the next step. But that comes simply when God speaks to a person, whether directly or through the instrumentality of His own choice, perhaps a preacher. The recipient merely chooses to accept and believe that word, and then to put it into practice.

 

[JohnPaul]

If you left the Catholic Church then stop believing they are the only place you can partake of the Lord's Supper. You need to partake for the right reasons, not myths.

That is the only Church I ever partook in the Communion, any other church I’ve been to never did that, so how am I supposed to know? And by the way I don’t partake in things because of myths, just so you know, and please be a little more respectful to the people you speak to, I haven’t disrespected you.

 

[Randy Kluth]

That is the only Church I ever partook in the Communion, any other church I’ve been to never did that, so how am I supposed to know? And by the way I don’t partake in things because of myths, just so you know, and please be a little more respectful to the people you speak, I haven’t disrespected you.

I had Communion in the Lutheran Church, and was even an acolyte and assistant to the pastor, who administered the bread and wine. Luther broke from the Catholic Church, and so had a view of the Eucharist very similar to how Catholics viewed it.

The breaking point between Protestants and Catholics, in terms of the Eucharist, is in how Jesus meant to indicate the bread and wine was his body and blood. To say the bread is his body could be a metaphorical statement, and is what most Protestants believe. Luther may have stuck with the idea of the "real presence" in the symbols. Transubstantiation vs. Consubstantiation. You really have to decide for yourself how you're going to say it and how you're going to mean it.

Usually the derogatory claim that Catholics mythologize the Eucharist comes with the claim that bread and wine are not physically transformed into Christ's literal flesh and blood, which obviously nobody means! Catholics simply mean that there is a *mystical* transformation of the physical elements to spiritual food, which would be like Jesus saying "my blood is drink indeed." John 6.55

Personally, I think Jesus was just calling his disciples to literally partake of his spiritual life, his body and blood being metaphors representing the truths contained in the gift of his Spirit. But however imperfect or perfect the language may be, I think we all mean the same basic thing, that we must spiritually partake of Christ.

I do believe there is a problem not just with Catholics but with any Christian group when they claim that eating Christ's body and drinking his blood in Communion somehow gives them Eternal Life. It is faith in Christ's word that saves, and is a spiritual thing.

Physical acts of religion, repetitive exercises, perfunctory ceremonies, etc. do not save unless they are con-joined with an exercise of faith in God's word. And that word must be spoken by God to our heart in order for any religious ritual to be effective and real.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Verses in Mark 16 after verse 8 are considered later additions, not found in earlier manuscripts.
So I do not believe that we can base our faith on spurious verses.

What does it mean to be "born again" in your opinion?

To have been CONVICTED of your SIN by the Holy Spirit, and subsequently to have REPENTED of that sin, and called on God in FAITH that HE Gives you for Him to apply the SIN OFFERING of Jesus on the cross to your life, and cleanse you from all SIN, and indwell you with the Holy SPirit.

How are some "born again" whilst others are not?

If one has responded to the conviction of the Holy SPirit as above, than they're born again. If they HAVEN'T, they're NOT.

Can there be Christians who are not “born again”?

Absolutely NOT!!!! you can be a church member, participate in religious activities, even be a minister in a denominational church without being "Born AGain". But you CAN'T BE a genuine Christian with out the spiritual re-birth.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Do you appreciate that if you are wrong, you attribute the work of the Holy Spirit to Satan...

I seem to recall this is a very serious sin.

I guess I could ask you the same question.....if you have been deceived into believing that the physical “healing” that takes place is from God, when in fact it is due to the power of the devil in his attempts to deceive, (“disguising himself as an angel of light”) then Matthew 7:21-23 takes on a very significant meaning. Those whom Jesus rejects, are claiming the very same thing as you do. Why does he reject them? What is the “lawlessness” they practise?

If God withdrew the miracles (as proof of the operation of God’s spirit) and promoted the more mature aspects of Christianity (“faith, hope and love) at the close of the first century, then what are we left with? There can be no doubt that none of these so called miracles are from God in our time, even when they appear to be. We are not left to wonder if it is or it isn’t....don’t you think God knew what would happen in these last days when satan would be working overtime to deceive as many as possible before his confinement in the abyss? Miracles would be offered as proof, when they were no such thing....the deception is masterful, done by an expert who has observed humankind since their creation. Our enemy knows us better than we know ourselves. This is why we must pay full attention to what God reveals in his word.

People will believe what appeals to them.....what could be more appealing than these sessions where the seemingly impossible becomes reality? Yet the other side of that coin is the failures. What of those who are not healed and whose faith is battered because of it. Jesus and his apostles had no failures. On infrequent occasions, it was the faith of the healer that was lacking so that it was not successful. But in our day, “the church” is a divided mess and there is no unity or cohesion in faith or practice in most of them. Does the Christ exist divided? He does in Christendom, contrary to what Paul said must identify true Christians....

1 Corinthians 1:10....
“Now I urge you, brothers, through the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you should all speak in agreement and that there should be no divisions among you, but that you may be completely united in the same mind and in the same line of thought.”

True Christianity is no part of that disunited rabble....no part of its varying belief systems or unbiblical practices. It will be seen as being “no part of the world”, not meddling in politics or adopting the world’s attitude in supporting war and bloodshed. (Matthew 5:43-44)

At the time of the end, the “wheat” are totally separated from the “weeds”.....and Jesus will know exactly who is a “sheep” and who is a “goat” by what we have all chosen to believe.

The master of deception has no conscience and will prey upon our emotions to get us to where he wants us. He takes advantage of our ignorance, wants, needs and desires. Only a good knowledge of what the scriptures teach, (all of them) along with the direction of God’s spirit can build a wall of protection around us. (John 6:65; 2 Corinthians 2:11)

But to each his own.....we will all answer to the same judge, who will not entertain excuses. We have to be sure that what we have chosen to believe is in fact true.....God will not interfere with our choices.
We will all be caught in the act of being our true selves....remembering that the “wheat” are not in the majority. (Matthew 7:13-14)

 

[amadeus]

Verses in Mark 16 after verse 8 are considered later additions, not found in earlier manuscripts.

They are so considered by a man or men? What if everything contained in those supposed 'spurious' verses were to be found elsewhere in the written scriptures?

So I do not believe that we can base our faith on spurious verses.

Are there not people who would name most, or even all, of the written Bible as spurious? Should we base our faith on what is written in the Bible... any part of it? What man or men should we trust to tell us the Truth?

What does it mean to be "born again" in your opinion?
How are some "born again" whilst others are not?
Can there be Christians who are not “born again”?

To me a Christian is simply one who is seeking to follow Christ and his Way. I myself was seeking sincerely daily and continuously for six long weeks to do that before I was baptized with the Holy Ghost. Was I was born again before the end of the six-week period? Was I a Christian?

Is not the new birth experience a new opportunity to show our love for God by serving Him and to work by the His power of in us so as to avoid a repetition of the failure of our first carnal parents in the Garden of Eden?

"But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you..." Acts 1:8

"...Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call." Acts 2:37-39

 

[Carl Emerson]

I guess I could ask you the same question.....if you have been deceived into believing that the physical “healing” that takes place is from God, when in fact it is due to the power of the devil in his attempts to deceive, (“disguising himself as an angel of light”) then Matthew 7:21-23 takes on a very significant meaning. Those whom Jesus rejects, are claiming the very same thing as you do. Why does he reject them? What is the “lawlessness” they practise?

If God withdrew the miracles (as proof of the operation of God’s spirit) and promoted the more mature aspects of Christianity (“faith, hope and love) at the close of the first century, then what are we left with? There can be no doubt that none of these so called miracles are from God in our time, even when they appear to be. We are not left to wonder if it is or it isn’t....don’t you think God knew what would happen in these last days when satan would be working overtime to deceive as many as possible before his confinement in the abyss? Miracles would be offered as proof, when they were no such thing....the deception is masterful, done by an expert who has observed humankind since their creation. Our enemy knows us better than we know ourselves. This is why we must pay full attention to what God reveals in his word.

People will believe what appeals to them.....what could be more appealing than these sessions where the seemingly impossible becomes reality? Yet the other side of that coin is the failures. What of those who are not healed and whose faith is battered because of it. Jesus and his apostles had no failures. On infrequent occasions, it was the faith of the healer that was lacking so that it was not successful. But in our day, “the church” is a divided mess and there is no unity or cohesion in faith or practice in most of them. Does the Christ exist divided? He does in Christendom, contrary to what Paul said must identify true Christians....

1 Corinthians 1:10....
“Now I urge you, brothers, through the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you should all speak in agreement and that there should be no divisions among you, but that you may be completely united in the same mind and in the same line of thought.”

True Christianity is no part of that disunited rabble....no part of its varying belief systems or unbiblical practices. It will be seen as being “no part of the world”, not meddling in politics or adopting the world’s attitude in supporting war and bloodshed. (Matthew 5:43-44)

At the time of the end, the “wheat” are totally separated from the “weeds”.....and Jesus will know exactly who is a “sheep” and who is a “goat” by what we have all chosen to believe.

The master of deception has no conscience and will prey upon our emotions to get us to where he wants us. He takes advantage of our ignorance, wants, needs and desires. Only a good knowledge of what the scriptures teach, (all of them) along with the direction of God’s spirit can build a wall of protection around us. (John 6:65; 2 Corinthians 2:11)

But to each his own.....we will all answer to the same judge, who will not entertain excuses. We have to be sure that what we have chosen to believe is in fact true.....God will not interfere with our choices.
We will all be caught in the act of being our true selves....remembering that the “wheat” are not in the majority. (Matthew 7:13-14)

OK so your issue is that what we know of as church today is satanic, and therefore any incidents of apparent goodness from it's activities is from Satan...

Am I hearing you right?

 

[Cassandra]

When Jesus comes as judge, look at what they will say to him to defend themselves....
“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22 Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; leave Me, you who practice lawlessness.’"

Do you see what they were doing to claim that they were Christ's followers?..."did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?" What does Jesus say next? "then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; leave Me, you who practice lawlessness."

Miracles and exorcisms are not a proof of God's holy spirit in this time period.....so they must come from God's enemy, since these ones are accused of the 'practice of lawlessness'. Whose laws are they breaking? It has to be God's laws.

I think this is an excellent point, and demonstrates that all healings, etc are not from the Lord. Also the 'Confess your faults one to another, that you may be healed" I think that is talking about spiritual healing, not physical. And again we have a problem here with Paul's infirmity, and Timothy's stomach.

These things need to be addressed as well. We need to be aware that there are counterfeits. I'm not gonna shout "amen" everyone someone says they healed someone.

Not to mention, and I wasn't going to say anything, but oh well, have at me--I don't care--but there are an awful lot of 'I"," I", "I" in those testimonials..
That bothers me. It really does.

 

[Carl Emerson]

I think this is an excellent point, and demonstrates that all healings, etc are not from the Lord. Also the 'Confess your faults one to another, that you may be healed" I think that is talking about spiritual healing, not physical. And again we have a problem here with Paul's infirmity, and Timothy's stomach.

These things need to be addressed as well. We need to be aware that there are counterfeits. I'm not gonna shout "amen" everyone someone says they healed someone.

Not to mention, and I wasn't going to say anything, but oh well, have at me--I don't care--but there are an awful lot of 'I"," I", "I" in those testimonials..
That bothers me. It really does.

Good point - having checked the very words of Jesus - the most humble man that ever lived - "I" and "Me" are very frequent in His recorded conversations - so I am unsure if we should give much attention to His claims ???

 

[Aunty Jane]

They are so considered by a man or men? What if everything contained in those supposed 'spurious' verses were to be found elsewhere in the written scriptures?

In manuscripts dated back to second and third centuries, based on those Master texts, there is evidence that some verses of the Greek scriptures especially in the KJV, were actually additions made by later copyists and hence never part of inspired scripture, and are thus considered spurious. This is one incidence of that. If it was meant to be in the inspired canon, God would have included it...not men. I do not find the KJV to be accurately translated TBH....not to mention its archaic English..... I cannot fathom people's attachment to it.
It's almost like God wrote it until you realize that it is a translation, open to the interpretation of the translators like all the rest.

The part in Mark 16 where it says ...."He that believes and is baptized will be saved, but he that does not believe will be condemned. 17 Furthermore, these signs will accompany those believing: By the use of my name they will expel demons, they will speak with tongues, 18 and with their hands they will pick up serpents, and if they drink anything deadly it will not hurt them at all. They will lay their hands upon sick persons, and these will become well.”

Today we have those who handle snakes as part of their faith based on this scripture, many have been bitten, some I believe have even died.
Was Jim Jones also doing this when he got all his devotees to drink poison?

Are there not people who would name most, or even all, of the written Bible as spurious? Should we base our faith on what is written in the Bible... any part of it? What man or men should we trust to tell us the Truth?

I guess you trust the ones that did not spring from the 'apostasy' that was foretold by Christ and his apostles. That would include what the "church" became after the first century....after the Christian scriptures were concluded with John's letters and his Revelation. Once that window was closed, men did what Jesus and the apostles said they would. Christianity suffered the same fate as Judaism. We can see from history that "the church" morphed into something that Christ would not recognize....just as Judaism did. Captivity to 'the greater Babylon' resulted and thus the command in Revelation 18:4-5 to "get out of" that disgusting place. At the judgment Christ says he never knew those who stayed.

To me a Christian is simply one who is seeking to follow Christ and his Way. I myself was seeking sincerely daily and continuously for six long weeks to do that before I was baptized with the Holy Ghost. Was I was born again before the end of the six-week period? Was I a Christian?

That is not my call Armadeus.....Christ is the one who "separates the sheep from the goats". If you read what the criteria is for a sheep in Matthew 25:34-40...you will see what a true Christian will be doing.
"...‘Come, you who have been blessed by my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the founding of the world. 35 For I became hungry and you gave me something to eat; I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink. I was a stranger and you received me hospitably; 36 naked and you clothed me. I fell sick and you looked after me. I was in prison and you visited me.’ 37 Then the righteous ones will answer him with the words: ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and receive you hospitably, or naked and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ 40 In reply the King will say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’"
These are the ones who have supported Christ's "brothers"....who are also "sons of God" by adoption, and are the "chosen ones"..."saints".....God's "elect" who will rule with Christ in heaven.
Those who are not "called" to heaven are to render assistance to them whilst they are still on earth.....

These ones existed in the first century too.....Paul identified them in 1 Corinthians 1:2....addressing his words to....
"the congregation of God that is in Corinth, to you who have been sanctified in union with Christ Jesus, called to be holy ones (saints), together with all those everywhere who are calling on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours".

There are clearly two groups of "Christians" here...those who are "called to be saints" and those who are "together with" these ones who are also calling on the name of their "Lord Jesus Christ". Which group do you belong to?

Is not the new birth experience a new opportunity to show our love for God by serving Him and to work by the His power of in us so as to avoid a repetition of the failure of our first carnal parents in the Garden of Eden?

"But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you..." Acts 1:8

"...Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call." Acts 2:37-39

This is another KJV expression that makes me cringe.....there is no such thing as "the holy ghost". The word "ghost" was adopted by KJV translators who were biased towards the trinity. The word "ghost" conjures up images of a person rather than an impersonal force or the power of God that can give mere mortals the ability to perform acts that are beyond their normal capabilities.
It is taken from a German word "geist" and it means "spirit". So the "Holy Ghost" is more correctly translated "Holy Spirit" as it is in most modern English Bibles.

If you notice the wording in the last sentence of the scripture you quoted, you will still see that "as many as the Lord shall call".....which means that these ones are chosen by God, "called" to be part of his elect. That privilege is not open to all....only to those who are granted the anointing of the holy spirit to become part of the heavenly kingdom government. Only they are "born again", becoming a "new creation" after their resurrection in the spirit as Jesus was. (Revelation 20:6) This facilitates their transfer to heaven, being given a spirit body, as opposed to the fleshly body that they leave behind.

Do you see yourself as a 'king and priest' in heaven, or as a grateful subject on earth enjoying the blessings of the best government that human beings could ever have?

I have no desire to go to heaven but I do have a natural desire to live in paradise, because this is where God put us originally to "live forever". The anointing of the "saints" means that God gives them a different desire......a strong desire to leave this earth and join Christ in heaven. This is how they know that they are chosen.....they have a completely different desire to their fellow Christians. Since God does the choosing, we are not vying for the privilege due to any superiority on our part....we just have different destinies and different avenues of service to our God. We shouldn't care where we serve.....wherever we find ourselves, will be God's choosing....and we will love it.

 

[Aunty Jane]

OK so your issue is that what we know of as church today is satanic, and therefore any incidents of apparent goodness from it's activities is from Satan...

Am I hearing you right?

Are you a Bible student Carl? Have you studied God's word thoroughly? If you have, then you will know that Jesus and his apostles warned about a coming "apostasy".....the devil was going to sow "weeds" of counterfeit "Christianity", which would be demonstrated in their conduct.
Jesus also warned about the cause of all the troubles we would experience as the last days, in which we now live, come to their end.

What is the history of "the church"? When was it that the activities that Jesus warned us about began to take place?
An "Apostasy" was foretold...in Greek (a·po·sta·siʹa) comes from the verb a·phiʹste·mi, literally meaning “stand away from.”
The noun has the sense of “desertion, abandonment or rebellion.”..."religious defection; a withdrawal or abandonment of the true cause, worship, and service of God", and hence an abandonment of what one has previously professed and a total desertion of principles or faith.

The religious leaders of Jerusalem charged Paul with such an apostasy against the Mosaic Law. (Acts 21:21) If you look back at the history of the nation of Israel you will see that men took God's word and twisted its meaning. They had several excursions into false worship, trying to somehow blend it in with the worship of Yahweh.....and they were punished accordingly.

Even in the Promised Land, they could not uphold their covenant with God. This cause Him to exile them in Babylon, far away from their homeland, and to be stuck in that situation for 70 years. But not all the Israelites were rebellious....Daniel and his three companions were among the youths that were faithful to their God even when surrounded by Babylon's false worship. Daniel spent his whole adult life in Babylon, but remained faithful to his God and received many blessings. He was inspired to write about "the time of the end" and to prophesy concerning the events that would lead to the coming of God's Kingdom. This was about 500 years before Jesus was even born.

By the time Jesus came to take up his ministry as Messiah, the Jewish religious leaders had well and truly lost the plot. Jesus castigated them at every opportunity and denounced them as incorrigible. There was no hope for them....as "Gehenna" awaited them. (Matthew 23:37-39 Matthew 23:33) Jesus was sent to the very ones that the Pharisees despised....the ones who did not treat them with the honor they felt was due to them...."the lost sheep of the house of Israel" were treated like dirt....but these were the ones who responded to Jesus.

What did Jesus say had happened to the Jewish religion? Steeped in man made traditions that had been substituted for God's word, he said...
Matthew 15:6-9....
"So you have made the word of God invalid because of your tradition. 7 You hypocrites, Isaiah aptly prophesied about you when he said: 8 ‘This people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far removed from me. 9 It is in vain that they keep worshipping me, for they teach commands of men as doctrines.’”

Christendom too has done exactly the same thing.....Christendom had its birth in 4th century Roman Catholicism. These too have introduced human traditions and "commands of men as doctrines".....there is a common thread that Christendom shares with paganism that is at the very core of it's teachings. We find doctrines that do not have their origins in scripture....but have their origins in false worship. When the reformers broke the power of the Roman church, they at least put the Bible back into the hands of the people, kept from them for centuries....but it did nothing to unite Christians....it broke them up into ever increasing sects that were at odds with one another.....and now look at the state of "the church"....it is a disunited mess.

If you check, you will find that all false religion accepts this common thread......a multiplicity of gods (including triads), immortality of the soul, and hellfire in one form or another. Denominations vary in other details but all have a common core, that is false. So in answer to your question.....just as Judaism was infiltrated by corrupt men who were led away from the truth, so too was Christendom. What passes today for the "Christian" faith is not even close to what Jesus and his apostles taught. Don't you wonder how it got to be in such a mess if Jesus was leading it? (Matthew 28:19-20)

We are told to "get out of Babylon the great" if we do not want to receive the same punishment that she is about to receive. (Revelation 18:4-5)
We cannot follow through on that command unless we know exactly what Babylon the great is, and how to liberate ourselves.. Can you tell me what that means to you?

 

[Carl Emerson]

Yes... I am well familiar with your theological position - I studied it at university in the 70's.

I am guessing you have studied the 6 volumes of Charles Russell.

It reminds me that back in the day the Mormons and JW's would knock on my door and offer a bible study, both claiming I would know the 'truth' within about three months. So I figured they should sort it out among themselves, then come back to me. They never did...

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Yes... I am well familiar with your theological position - I studied it at university in the 70's.

I am guessing you have studied the 6 volumes of Charles Russell.

It reminds me that back in the day the Mormons and JW's would knock on my door and offer a bible study, both claiming I would know the 'truth' within about three months. So I figured they should sort it out among themselves, then come back to me. They never did...

“Mormons” and JW have very little in common. The biggest points being 1) a passion for actively going out and sharing their beliefs in the Gospel, and 2) being targeted “anti-cult” junk.

Issue to the “you sort it out and get back to me” stance: there’s >30,000 Christian denominations. Should I wait for the Calvinists and Armenians to sort things out before learning? I think not. I’m very pro doing study myself, both of God’s Truth and coming to understand other people’s views.

Back to the OP topic: God can indeed cure wounds and illnesses dramatically through His miracles. We should also strive to take good care of ourselves: exercise, good diet, follow medical advice, and get medical help when it is needed.

 

[Cassandra]

Good point - having checked the very words of Jesus - the most humble man that ever lived - "I" and "Me" are very frequent in His recorded conversations - so I am unsure if we should give much attention to His claims ???

Little bit of difference between you and Christ. He can I and Me all He wants --He is the Author and the Doer. You aren't. I found your testimonials to contain alot of you, and not a lot of the Lord. That is what bothers me.