Carl Emerson
Well-Known Member
Yes... I agree
I took over 5 years out to read nothing but the Word devotionally.
Also very careful about diet and exercise here as well.
Is Faith Healing Really from God?
- Thread starter Aunty Jane
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Yes... I agree
I took over 5 years out to read nothing but the Word devotionally.
Also very careful about diet and exercise here as well.
Carl Emerson
Well-Known Member
Sorry you somehow got that impression - those who meet me in person don't get that impression. You are the first person to make that judgement in seven years on forums.
I guess there is a greater risk of being seen that way when one makes a focus on testimonial rather than theology.
However I have openly testified of being shipwrecked in life, rebuilt by Him from zero, and then given a Holy confidence to speak, so it is going to ruffle a few feathers, particularly among those who insist that Jesus doesn't do stuff with us any longer...
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These things you mention are not new to me. I have read about them and heard about them... but I am trusting God to provide me with what I need in spite of men and their biased or unbiased errors... in spite of my own shortcomings. I am not a historian nor do I read any of the original Bible languages myself, and I would guess that most believers are like that.
We must trust God to show us the right way including which Bible versions or verses to believe... or even which interpretations from which people [speaking for God?] to accept or doubt.
As to those particular supposedly spurious verses in Mark, I have had no personal problem with them coming into conflict with other things I read in the Bible. Of course, while I read it all I admit I do not understand everything and likely some of my understandings are in error.
One thing I have learned to do as a result is to set anything aside when I do not understand or have doubts about it within me. Some of them later on God has given me an answer and some remain still without resolution. Do we need every answer now or ever? Perhaps, but God also knows that, does He not? What do we need as opposed to want?
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@Aunty Jane
No matter how careful we are in our readings/studies and our walk with God, someone will certainly disagree with us when we express ourselves and they may even assure us that if we continue along our present course, it will be disastrous for us indeed. Fortunately, no man will render the final judgement on us. No man is capable of doing it right.
I won't clearly state that I with this one or that one. Rather I only strive to be always on God's side. A frequent reminder for me is found here:
"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof." Matt 6:33-34
No matter how careful we are in our readings/studies and our walk with God, someone will certainly disagree with us when we express ourselves and they may even assure us that if we continue along our present course, it will be disastrous for us indeed. Fortunately, no man will render the final judgement on us. No man is capable of doing it right.
I won't clearly state that I with this one or that one. Rather I only strive to be always on God's side. A frequent reminder for me is found here:
"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof." Matt 6:33-34
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@Aunty Jane
Well, the German does not make me cringe, LOL.
I read a German Bible all of the time as well as a Spanish one. The German word, Geist, is used in each place where either of the words, spirit or ghost, is used in English Bible versions. The word, espíritu, is used in Spanish for the same two English words. For me the two English words are interchangeable although at times I may use one rather than the other for the benefit of my audience.
My vision of me is as one of His. What I am or where I am matters not at all so long as I am always with Him... the one I love. Without a vision, the people perish! I rarely, if ever, make an effort to define my vision too closely, for the words, be they English or German or Spanish, are not in me to do so in a way always clear to others.
Not all believers are on the same place on the highway of holiness moving toward the Light and thus their visions while perhaps in most cases are seen as through darkened glass, they are not in a given moment precisely the same. Will they ever be? Who will attain to the "face to face" about which Paul wrote? When is "then"? [I Cor 13:12]
I read your words and I do see us, you and me and other believers, as different parts of the Body of Christ, but then the question of the Bride as a part of the Body, but perhaps distinct, is also in my mind. People want to argue on that point and I have done it myself, but what is the purpose of such an argument?
What are the most important things according to God for us to consider or pursue? The shades of darkness and light? Hmmm?
Well, the German does not make me cringe, LOL.
I read a German Bible all of the time as well as a Spanish one. The German word, Geist, is used in each place where either of the words, spirit or ghost, is used in English Bible versions. The word, espíritu, is used in Spanish for the same two English words. For me the two English words are interchangeable although at times I may use one rather than the other for the benefit of my audience.
My vision of me is as one of His. What I am or where I am matters not at all so long as I am always with Him... the one I love. Without a vision, the people perish! I rarely, if ever, make an effort to define my vision too closely, for the words, be they English or German or Spanish, are not in me to do so in a way always clear to others.
Not all believers are on the same place on the highway of holiness moving toward the Light and thus their visions while perhaps in most cases are seen as through darkened glass, they are not in a given moment precisely the same. Will they ever be? Who will attain to the "face to face" about which Paul wrote? When is "then"? [I Cor 13:12]
I read your words and I do see us, you and me and other believers, as different parts of the Body of Christ, but then the question of the Bride as a part of the Body, but perhaps distinct, is also in my mind. People want to argue on that point and I have done it myself, but what is the purpose of such an argument?
What are the most important things according to God for us to consider or pursue? The shades of darkness and light? Hmmm?
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No sorry, I have never read the 6 volumes of Charles Russell. He is not our founder....nor are his writings considered equal to scripture...nor did he ever claim to be a prophet.
He was the spokesman for an increasing number of people who felt compelled to abandon the sham that was Christendom. Russell’s early writings were just the beginning of the exodus from that spiritually ‘adulterous’ institution which had held a “kingdom over the kings of the earth” for centuries (Revelation 17:15-18)....we have come a long way in our understanding since then.
In view of Jesus’ words to his disciples concerning the preaching of the gospel....we might understand why those who visited you did not return....
Matthew 10:11-14...
“Into whatever city or village you enter, search out who in it is deserving, and stay there until you leave. 12 When you enter the house, greet the household. 13 If the house is deserving, let the peace you wish it come upon it; but if it is not deserving, let the peace from you return upon you. 14 Wherever anyone does not receive you or listen to your words, on going out of that house or that city, shake the dust off your feet.”
Perhaps, in view of your life choices, ‘shaking the dust off’ was the appropriate thing to do. And since the only “Christians” who were seen “doing” what Christ commanded (Matthew 28:19-20) i.e. taking the message out to the people, we have to ask where have Christendom’s churches been in fulfilling “the great commission”? But only one of those two groups was actually bearing the “good news of God’s Kingdom”.
If you ask a Mormon what God’s Kingdom is, like those in Christendom, they really can’t tell you. I have asked them on numerous occasions when they used to call, or when I saw them in the street approaching people with their message. None could actually explain it cohesively. Can you?
It takes courage and true commitment to Jehovah our God to do something that is basically ‘unnatural’.....approaching strangers with the Kingdom message is not easy, but it is what Jesus commanded and it is what he has supported, just as he promised. We are one united global brotherhood who take care of each other. We all believe the same things, and we all take our assignment seriously, never making excuses for why we can’t or won’t participate in the work Jesus gave us. Those whom Jesus rewards are those “doing the will of the Father”, just as he did....and it means getting the same negative response as you have demonstrated here. (John 15:18-21)
Christendom does not know the God of Jesus Christ because they have been misled into worshipping the wrong god....and following the traditions of men instead of sticking to the scriptures.
“Babylon the great” is about to go down, and if we have not divorced ourselves from her, we will go down with her. (Revelation 18:4-5) The warning is there for all to see.....but blinded minds cannot see the truth. (2 Corinthians 4:3-4)
We all have choices Carl.....dispelling our ignorance is the first step to gaining that truth.....not being deceived by a bold faced liar, which is how Jesus described our common enemy. (John 8:44) He can pretend to be the opposite of what he really is. Do the deceived know that they are, until it’s too late? We will all find that out soon, I believe.
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DO you want me to send you a PM talking directly on this subject? Because yes, "Mormons" can indeed discuss this topic.
Feel free to start a thread......since people often confuse us, perhaps it would be good to share the differences between our two brotherhoods.
We can keep it respectful.
Carl Emerson
Well-Known Member
On God's side is a good place to be...but how do we show it? How do we demonstrate in our everyday life that we belong to the only "brotherhood" that teaches the truth? How can you tell who the counterfeits are? Jesus said "by their fruits" we would recognize those who belong to him....so we should see obedience to Jesus commands and an abiding by his teachings in all things....all of them, not just the convenient things. And we would be among those who regularly meet together because they share the same beliefs with no dissension. (Hebrews 10:24-25; 2 Corinthians 1:10) We cannot be Christians in isolation from other Christians, or gather with those who hold different beliefs about who God is.
It isn't the "German" that makes me cringe...it is the English translation in the KJV.
In the Bible there is no such thing as a "ghost", in the way Christendom understands the word. In the scriptures there are "spirits" mentioned but none of these have been former humans. The only spirits it speaks about are the faithful angels and the unfaithful ones who became demons. It is of interest to note that God's law forbade contact with spirits or with those who dabbled in spiritistic practices. (Deuteronomy 18:9-12)
In English, the words are not interchangeable except for those who believe in immortality of the soul. There is no conscious 'spirit' of man that departs from the body at death.....the Bible nowhere teaches that. Quite the contrary.....(Ecclesiastes 9:5-6, 10; Ecclesiastes 3:19-20; Genesis 3:19)
Nowhere does the Bible teach that "heaven or hell" are opposite destinations for a disembodied spirit that keeps living after the body dies.
The dead "sleep" in an unconscious state awaiting the promised resurrection.....which is a return to life here on earth for the majority. (Like Lazarus. John 11:11-14) Jesus promised to bring them back to life. (John 5:28-29) They are all raised from the same place...their graves.
Since Jesus told us that there are only two roads to travel, and only one of them is a super highway, we have to be careful about what that means. (Matthew 7:13-14) The end destination is not what those traveling that easy road are expecting. Its a dead end.
At this point in time, nothing is a matter of guesswork. We are on the brink of our own "Promised Land"...the one God intended for us from the beginning....the one he demonstrated to the first humans in Eden, and told them to fill the earth with their children and subdue the land outside so that the whole world would eventually become a paradise like God had created especially for them. There is no longer a dark glass...everything is now crystal clear to those who are not victims of the deceiver. With blinded minds, nothing is clear to them. (2 Corinthians 4:3-4)
Daniel foretold that in "the time of the end" that God would cleanse, purify and refine a people who would be taught by an 'abundance of knowledge' that would be available at this time. (Daniel 12:4, 9-10) The wicked (disobedient ones) would reject this cleansing and refining, and so hang on to the errors of their forefathers, just as Judaism had done. These ancient errors are still taught as truth....and people still hang onto them...tenaciously.
Like the people of Jesus' day, they had to dispense with the old and put on the new...it meant ostracism from the religious leaders and those who stayed with them, but the truth seekers did not waver. Like salmon swimming upstream, they had their goal in mind and nothing would prevent them from proclaiming the exciting truths that Christ was telling them. There is no middle ground...no fence to sit on...Jesus said that if we are for God, no one could be against us....except ourselves. We are the only one who stands in our own way.
Small beginnings would eventually grow into a "mighty nation". (Isaiah 60:22) It exists, but is small in comparison to the false worship that is practiced on this planet.
It is important to distinguish the "elect" from the ones who are fellow Christians but who do not have the same destiny. "The Meek shall inherit the earth", not heaven. Those "pure in heart will see God"...the earthly residents will never see God, as it would mean their death.
Christ's disciples would be "peacemakers" "persecuted " and "reviled" but that is the pay off. Suffering for Christ is worth it. (Matthew 5:15, 8-11) The reward is unimaginable!
No, just the difference between the light and the darkness....there are no grey areas....no fences to sit on....no indecision. Jesus said that 'if we are not for him' (shown by our obedience to his teachings) then he will consider that we 'are against him'. (Matthew 12:30)
Matthew 5:25...Jesus said to the Pharisees....
“Every kingdom divided against itself comes to ruin, and every city or house divided against itself will not stand." Christendom is a "house divided".
The ones that have taken you where you are now.
Where is the King if those who appeal to him because they believe that their miracles and exorcisms are from God, only to find out that the one they claimed was their "Lord" has never known them....? (Matthew 7:21-23) That is a sobering thought because this occurs at the judgment.
If the King has never set foot in the place we have chosen to live, what does that mean?
Carl Emerson
Well-Known Member
Frankly you offerings and claims make no sense to me at all - different Spirit.
You imply judgements without any real knowledge of me.
King Jesus is very much with us daily despite your theories.
I guess you don't have the first clue what I am talking about because you have been drawn into a theological echo chamber.
Enjoy your day.
We show that we are on God's side by being there. Many people will not see it for lack of "eyes to see". Some of them may even belong to and/or attend church meetings but remain blind, at least in part, to things of God. Church meetings are a good thing when two or more are gathered "in His name".
Several years ago. there was an Australian sister on another forum, who argued long and hard with anyone who would that the use of the word, "kid", for human children was an evil thing that should be stopped. I mostly only read her posts and those of her opponents. I don't know about in Australia, but in the United States all of my life people have used "kids" for human offspring more than they have for baby goats. For me it has always been that way. Her arguments gave me no reason to change.
As to what is meant by the Bible, I believe that God will open up the eyes, ears and mind of a person hungry and thirsty for the right things so that he may understand what God wants him to understand. This can happen through what men have designated as the worst of the best of translations.
"Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled." Matt 5:6
When I a was a child growing up, the word "gay" was in common use and it meant nothing more than "happy" or "carefree" and then somewhere and sometime it became applicable to homosexuals. They actually called the decade of the the 1890's the "Gay Nineties" and it had nothing to do with homosexuality. Today is rare to ever hear anyone use it for anything but homosexuality.
Language changes, or it does not, according to the people who use it. When I first started reading the Bible in 1976, that particular group used only the KJV, and they rarely said the Holy Spirit in spoken conversation or testimony even though it is also in that Bible. They always said, the Holy Ghost. It was not until many years later that I began encountering people who used Holy Spirit instead of Holy Ghost and that was on the Internet. It was hard for me to adjust to that... but I did. I simply accepted what they were doing. I did not see it as a problem for me. I know that sometimes it has been for others, which is why sometimes for their benefit, I say or write, Holy Spirit, instead of Holy Ghost. I want to communicate.
Good communication requires that people understand what another person means when he speaks or writes...which includes, of course, the intended or understood meaning of a particular word or words. It should not be a major issue but sometimes to some people it is.
When I was in elementary school, way back when, my teachers of English were sticklers for correcting any of the students who used the word, "ain't". In spite of their teaching and pressures, the word still exists today, and a lot of people use in speech and usually, if not always, they are understood.
On this forum, my good friend, @bbyrd009 has a language all his own, which he uses regularly. Sometimes people complain, but he has never stopped using it although when a people comes to him in the right attitude [spirit... not ghost, LOL] he will explain in different words for their benefit. I do not post in his language, but I usually understand it. I do not try to change him. I leave that to the English teachers. .
Mantis
Well-Known Member
Ain't no one healed me yet. I have had maybe twenty people pray for my back. One old lady prayed for Jesus to heal me and was all speaking in tongues and such. My pain left completely for seven days then Satan hit me so hard with pain that I have been afraid to ask for healing agin.
The straight and narrow way is the Way of God, whereas the wide way leading to destruction is the way of mammon. If a person really loves the truth [God's Truth, rather than the truths of men] he will get on the right road and stay on it. People too often really love themselves more than God and that does not change... even after they have encountered Him. How well does a person have to know God to love Him? How clearly must the face of God be seen in order to walk toward Him?
Do only very intelligent well-educated Bible student come to know God and ultimately and get saved?
What if the Land Promised, is the little bit of earth [our physical bodies] over which we have been made stewards by God? At what point in meekness may one actually inherit, becoming an owner?
"Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth." Matt 5:5
To God there is no dark glass limiting His vision, but while believers are growing how far below His limitless vision is theirs? How closely may a person come to Him? What is that "face to face"? As the vision from God increases in a person he is on the approach, but whose vision is ever becomes equal to God's?
"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is." I John 3:2
In the end, no fence to sit on, no lukewarmness to be spit out of the mouth of God, but on the Way, there is certainly for many [all?] a lot of stumbling and sometimes falling... but hopefully growing. To stand still is to stagnate and die once and for all.
"Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded" James 4:8
Many individuals remain houses divided...or "double minded". John the Baptist put it this way:
"He must increase, but I must decrease." John 3:30
This OP addresses a subject that needs more careful attention and inquiry within the Body of Christ.
In short, no believer has the authority to perform ALL the miraculous acts as the disciples did as Christ requested of them. They were given these abundant gifts for a purpose, to fulfill the ongoing plan of God. The disciples were localized and stayed within Judea to reach more of national Israel for conversion to Christ.
Today these gifts for this same purpose and in abundance is gone, period! Those that say they are still present as before, 2000 years ago, need to to support their claim via scripture and other real means.
Today there are a few genuine servants of God that do have particular miracle healing gifts, and they are specific in deed. And then these gifts are used to heal specific people for unknown or unclear reasons as the time of healing. We really cannot know why for sure this still occurs, besides it is the will of God being performed.
As a believer, and say I had the gift to heal my wife of severe arthritis today that is in her knees, ankles and wrists and arms I would pray and heal her in a flash and to others. It's not happening until God via the spirit of Christ within me allows it, or an angel intervenes and does the miraculous work for her. And I do have much faith is performing it, although I believe it's not the will of my God; at least at this time.
Carl Emerson
Well-Known Member
Sounds like you were healed but lost the territory gained.
This suggests you need to be in tight loving fellowship standing alongside others and learn to hold your ground.
I suggest getting into a loving fellowship and don't be afraid to ask for prayer.
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It is not the purpose of this thread to attack anyone personally.....it is to address the validity of the so called “miracles” that people claim today......not the miracles of the first century, as those are not questionable.....but to address by which “spirit” these healings are taking place in recent times.
I need no knowledge of you personally because it’s not you who is under scrutiny here, but what you and others claim to be able to do that is the subject of this thread.
Jesus is with those who are “doing the will of his Father”. This is what being a Christian means......it is the criteria upon which our future depends. Are miracles part of that criteria? Why were they performed in the first century? For whom were they performed? Check the scriptures...they were not already Christians. Only unbelievers were the subject of miracles....to bring them to Christ....is that true today? You know it’s not.
Perhaps you are in your own theological echo chamber? I am opening up this subject for scrutiny by scripture....not by whether someone “feels” that it is God’s work.
There are only two “powers” at work in this world....and God’s powerful adversary is a mimic.....a master of deception....disguising himself as “an angel of light”.....he can do “tricks” as the Bible confirms, so we need to examine scripture alone to determine what is happening in our time. It’s an emotional topic because of what it means if it’s not from God, but from the great deceiver.
I can imagine that this is viewed as a threat to your beliefs, but if it cannot be substantiated, scripturally, our emotions, though strongly experienced, have to take a back seat.
We do need to examine this subject honestly, because of the implications.
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
I'm sorry I offended you. I thought you left the RCC. The church I go to has communion every week. Some don't, except once a month. Others is once a quarter (13 weeks).
