Who contested? No one did! So what bring you this truth up here for? To support an untruth that the Law does not exist and does not apply to everyone alike?
Is Faith in Jesus Faith to Keep the Law?
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Who contested? No one did! So what bring you this truth up here for? To support an untruth that the Law does not exist and does not apply to everyone alike?
bbyrd009
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Hm. I'm not sure how you would back up a statement like that. But I have a pretty good idea of why you would make it. At least, the common reason, to my understanding, which I can't imagine would interest you, is that, lacking a reasonable reply, you retreat where to many have gone before, into invectives.
Galatians 3:12
And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
If you keep the Law, then you live by the keeping of the Law, not by faith. But faith is apart from the law, that those who are justified are justified apart from the law.
Do you want to call that bad words also?
Romans 3:27-28
Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Nor do I claim to be.
James 3:13 "Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom."
Much love!
Mark
I backed up my statement with your statement, "'If we kept the Law, why would we need Faith?'" because it is a crap statement.
Re: "'If you keep the Law, then you live by the keeping of the Law'". No one keeps the Law so no one lives by the keeping of the Law and no one as far as I can see, claimed either. Therefore, who and what are you talking about?
So I haven't seen in Scripture where it says "'faith is apart from the law'". But you are right, "'those who are justified are justified apart from (/ without) the law'" and apart or without the works even of obedience to the Law -- they, ALL, are JUDGED AND FOUND GUILTY according to the Law or their works of obedience to the Law. Because they have none. Because all are transgressors of the Law. Because the Law of God is valid forever. "'No one shall live by the keeping of the Law'".
Galatians 3:11-13 King James Version (KJV)
But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
Then why do you insist that you have to keep the Law if you recognize that you can't? Did I misunderstand something? Aren't you in support of keeping the Law of Moses?
Much love!
mark
I thought I should apologise for having said you're not a great thinker; I never before have told someone that. But after this... no, I won't apologise.
"'Then why do you insist that you have to keep the Law if you recognize that you can't?'"
If you knew ANYTHING you would have known this question in dozens of ways and forms has millions of times been dealt with in the centuries old conflict between free grace and free will and fundamental and libertine and orthodox and antinomian and between whatever and whichever truly Christian and blatant anti-Christ apologists and apologetics. You give your anti-nomianism a charismatic coat but it's made out of fig leafs still. And I am in support of the Christian obligation of keeping the law of God, while you are against it. So no, you didn't misunderstand something; you do not understand anything.
So I understand then to not be expecting an apology for being called out a complete ignoramous. OK.
I'm debating with you, not with millions of others. When I address my posts to you, I'm speaking to you, and I'm interested in Your responses. Not millions of other peoples' responses, yours.
And I still think you misunderstand me. I'm not against the keeping of the Law. I just know you don't have to. If you want to live a lifetime of frustration for nothing, that's up to you, and between you and God.
James testified to Paul that the Jews in Jerusalem were zealous to keep the Law. And that didn't seem to be a problem for anyone. So why should it be a problem to me?
But when the question came, should others be required to keep the Law, the answer was No. Peter even said that they never could, so why should other nations be told to? Why would I argue with that? Was the Apostle Peter against the Law?? Oh my! What about James! He was the one telling Paul to sponsor the vows of the young men to show that Paul kept the Law. What a disaster that was!
But James . . . leading the church in Jerusalem . . . zealous to keep the Law . . . Agreed with Peter!! What? Are they all against the Law?
Or do they know something. I think they know something.
But no, I'm not against attempting to keep the commandments given in a covenant between God and Israel at Mount Horeb, you are welcome to give is a go.
But it won't add to your faith. It won't add to your relationship with God. It may make you feel better than others. Although an actual attempt to live by Law empowers sin. And with that comes disappointment, feelings of failure, and sometimes even reaction formation.
But my question for you, well, let me put it another way. We have an island about 26 miles off the coast. No . . . scratch that, some can swim there. I'm on the west coast, and offshore lie the Islands of Hawaii. Pretty far offshore! Knowing that no one can swim there from here, knowing as a fact, what sense does it make to try? How much effort are you willing to put into it?
God informs us that if we keep every commandment, yet break one only, we are a lawbreaker. Plain and simply.
The other way . . . the way of faith, is so much better! God works within us, changing us into the people who do what pleases Him.
Much love!
Mark
Rom_2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
Ho Hum
You do not have faith, doesnt mean no one else does...
Luk_5:20 And when he saw their faith, he said unto him, Man, thy sins are forgiven thee.
bbyrd009
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I'm going to report your posts when you do that from now on mjr, beginning with that one ok.
Believe it or not you are not the arbiter of anyone else's faith
It does not read or mean your manipulation, ""'faith is apart from the law'"".
If ever a Scripture confirmed God's Law it is Galatian 3:11-13. because in it, "The One Doer of the Law" is Jesus Christ. "11 That / because [hoti] by / with / in [en+D] the Law no man is justified before God, is clear, because / that [hoti] The Just (Jesus Christ) from / after / by [ek+G] faith will live[*]; 12 and the Law is not from / of [ek+G] faith, but the one doing [ho poiehsas] all [auta] (them Laws) will live in / by / with [en+D] them all [autais]... 13 CHRIST! Us He (The One Doing the whole Law), redeemed out from the CURSE of the Law because it is written, Cursed is everyone that hangeth on a tree."[**]
[*Note it is not the Imperative 'shall live' because it is the One Lawgiver who "will live".]
[**Note which Law is the Law here in the New Testament!]
Joh_1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
Christ never gave anyone the law HE even reiterated it
Joh_7:19 Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?
God gave Moses the law to give to ISrael, it is not and never will be ours.
It's time for straight talk. This is a lie. There was never an answer like this to the question here put. The answer in New and Old Testaments when the supposed question, came, should ANY be required to keep the Law, the answer was YES and never 'No'.
Even if the question were asked, Should anyone be required to keep the Law in order to live thereby, THE ANSWER CAME LOUD AND CLEAR: "YOU MUST!"
The problem never was with the Law; the question never was the Law; the problem and no question ever was and ever will be and today is, THE LAW WAS NOT KEPT BUT DISOBEYED.
The problem and no question was the PEOPLE WHO then like today abused the Law to remedy their transgression of it, and to exchange their guilt with excuse and blaming and blaspheming the Holy Spirit of God for His JUDGEMENT of their SIN and with exchanging Christ our Righteousness for own righteousness by either casting away the Law of God or boasting perfect keeping of it.
Acts 15:5-10
5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.
7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
And . . .
23 And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia.
24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:
25 It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,
26 Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
27 We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth.
28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.
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