Is homosexuality something God can redeem?

[meshak]

Where I live, in the State of Washington, people of the same sex can be legally married, thus as a married couple they are not fornicating.

This is secular standard.

Jesus' followers apply Jesus' standards. His followers have no business butting into politics. His followers are not of this world.

 

[Selene]

Where I live, in the State of Washington, people of the same sex can be legally married, thus as a married couple they are not fornicating.

Just because the law says it is legal does not mean that it's not a sin. Abortion is legal in the United States, but abortion is murder. Murder is a sin. In the bible, homosexuality is a sin, whether the couple is married or not.

 

[KCKID]

Where I live, in the State of Washington, people of the same sex can be legally married, thus as a married couple they are not fornicating.

Very good point! Naturally, you will get your fair share of slams from others on the forum for stating this.

What must be absolutely frustrating for a gay person is knowing that, to some, especially Christians, they are damned if they're seen as being promiscuous but they are just as damned if they choose a monogamous relationship with a lifetime partner. While I'm not particularly interested in Gay Mardi Gras I can well understand why the gay community reached a point some years ago when they decided to thumb their noses at a society that had oppressed them for so long and decided to do something about it. And so now, they flaunt the 'sex' part with their over-the-top flamboyant and risque behavior just to p--s off their oppressors. Who can blame them? Any oppressed people can only be held down by someone's foot for so long. When the final straw eventually breaks the camel's back is when they say, "Enough!" Then they group together and rise up to be counted. Those that were under the control of others for so long are now in a position to assert some control of their own, much to the chagrine of the former masters. And, this is what has happened. Both the homophobes and the Christian Fundamentalist are those that have created the current 'gay monster' but they're too dumb to realize this. Once homosexuality is as accepted as hetosexuality (probably by the upcoming or the following generation) and gay marriage becomes 'the norm' the gay movement that has so many people believing that the sky is falling will have no reason to exist.

Just because the law says it is legal does not mean that it's not a sin. Abortion is legal in the United States, but abortion is murder. Murder is a sin. In the bible, homosexuality is a sin, whether the couple is married or not.

Homosexuality (and heterosexuality) are sins when they are a part of paganistic rituals as performed to images of false gods. It isn't so much the sex part but the very act of false worship and all that this entails that is offensive to God. Remember, we're told that He is a jealous God. The first commandment of the Big Ten is: "Thou shalt have no other gods but me." God has clearly planted His stake with the very first command. As I've said many times previously, there is plenty of information available online about the idol worship and the fertility rituals that were going on at the time of Bible authors. Those that have a genuine interest in seeking the truth will do just that.

It is so funny that you are so concerned of other's sexuality and when people point out it to you we become hypocrites. This is very old tactic to silence truth sayers. It is just cheap shot, dude.

I've made it crystal clear from the outset that I'm not concerned about one's sexuality. More than that, it's none of my business. It's none of yours either . . .

As for your 'cheap shot' remark. As I said before, take it up with Jesus. He's the one I quoted and (I believe) used appropriately in keeping with the general tone of the conversation.

By the way, calling me 'dude' is not necessary.

How do you know if we are not taking out our own plank?

I don't know. Are you? The way Jesus phrased the comment is that NO ONE bothers to remove the plank from their own eye but they still can't mind their own business about someone's splinter anyway. So, the comment was meant for everyone for all time.

You should know there are people who honor Jesus' standards and strive to follow them. We dont make excuses so we can go on with the low standards of this world.

Which side of the fence are you on anyway, meshak? You seem to attack posters randomly depending on your frame of mind at the time. Earlier this week via PMs I was your good friend. Now you're coming at me like a rabid dog even though "I" am the same person with the same points of view that I've had since day one. You seem awful fickle and it's difficult (for me, anyway) to take you too seriously.

This is secular standard.

Jesus' followers apply Jesus' standards. His followers have no business butting into politics. His followers are not of this world.

Are you saying that you're an alien, meshak ...? :blink:

Jesus' standards, by the way, had Him rubbing shoulders with the sinners of His day. He didn't condemn them or preach to them as far as I know. Not only did Jesus appreciate them for WHO they were but in so doing this also gave Him the opportunity to basically 'give the finger' to the pious Pharisees because he had no respect for them. Why? Because they were - here's that word again - hypocrites. Jesus condemned them! They knew the letter of the Law frontwards and backwards but they knew not how to apply the spirit of the Law with love. They had no right to point their judgmental fingers at others but they did so anyway. They didn't like Jesus because he ate and drank with those who, to the Pharisees, were low-life and should be spurned.

Um, sounds somewhat familiar . . .

 

[KingJ]

You're free to believe as you like, God gave you, and everyone else that ability. What is important is that a minority group are not denied the right to be themselves because some in the majority will not accept them for who they are. God made this world so justice prevails in the long run, thus God always prevails. Ignorance does not stand a chance in His world.

We are not free to believe as we like or ''be ourselves''. Unless you die to ''self'' you will die. It seems not only do we not see eye to eye on 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 - "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God." Leviticus 18:22 - "Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable Leviticus 20:13 - "If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads." 1 Timothy 1:10 for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine.

nor scripture from Paul, like

1 Cor 9:27 No, I strike a blow to my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize. Rom 8:13 For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.

It seems we disagree 100% on Christianity! I would rather discuss Christianity with someone like Nero, who will kill my flesh but spare my spirit from hell.

 

[JackSafari]

Just because the law says it is legal does not mean that it's not a sin. Abortion is legal in the United States, but abortion is murder. Murder is a sin. In the bible, homosexuality is a sin, whether the couple is married or not.

That is simply your belief, I believe otherwise. As long as laws don't limit the freedom of others to live full lives, I have no concerns what people choose to believe, or not believe.

 

[KingJ]

That is simply your belief, I believe otherwise. As long as laws don't limit the freedom of others to live full lives, I have no concerns what people choose to believe, or not believe.

You fail at Christianity, please please tell me you have only been a Christian for a day or two.

 

[KCKID]

To answer the OP's question, homosexuality is a sin that can be redeemed and forgiven just as all sins can be redeemed and forgiven. Lust is a sin that occurs in all people. For homosexuals, the lust is with people of the same sex. For heterosexuals, it is lust of the opposite sex. It is something we all struggle with. When a gay person commits the act of homosexuality, it is a sin....the sin of fornication. This is the same kind of sin that the single heterosexuals are also guilty of....the sin of fornication.

But yet, as I mentioned in another post, even when a gay couple want to do 'the right thing' and commit themselves to one another in a monogamous relationship they are STILL damned by Christians. And why? I see no prohibitions in the Bible with regard to gay marriage. As far as I know these folks are not worshipping false gods or participating in fertility rituals to graven images. They simply want to share their lives with one another. So, what's the problem? Is the God you worship really that mean ...?

It is possible for a homosexual to refrain from sex just as it is possible for heterosexuals to do the same. One gay person I know in my church does not commit homosexual acts despite that he is homosexual. He still continues to struggle with this sin. It is his cross, but he lives alone and does not have a boyfriend. He also attends Church everyday and is very much involved in his parish. With God, all things are possible.

How sad that someone is deprived of the pleasure of sharing an intimate relationship with someone to whom he/she is attracted simply because of a cruel religious prohibition. Forced - or coerced - celibacy would have to be the most unnatural and evil act that someone could perpetrate on another. Perhaps ALL the members of your church, selene, should REALLY show how genuine they are at supporting this young man by giving up sex themselves. After all, with God all things are possible . . .

You fail at Christianity, please please tell me you have only been a Christian for a day or two.

Jack may have been a Christian for only a few days - not enough time to have been indoctrinated with Christian Fundamentalism - or he may have been a Christian for many years and therefore matured beyond the unloving, judgmental, dogmatic, unJesus-like beliefs OF Christian Fundamentalism. Or, he might just be a naturally savvy person!

How would your professed Christianity stand up to a Litmus Test, KingJ?

 

[JackSafari]

You fail at Christianity, please please tell me you have only been a Christian for a day or two.

What I believe is between me and God, that is what is most important. How I treat others is an expression of what I beleive. I have no doubts on this issue and can feel God standing with me despite the doubts others may have.

 

[KCKID]

We are not free to believe as we like or ''be ourselves''. Unless you die to ''self'' you will die. It seems not only do we not see eye to eye on 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 - "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God." Leviticus 18:22 - "Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable Leviticus 20:13 - "If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads." 1 Timothy 1:10 for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine.

nor scripture from Paul, like

1 Cor 9:27 No, I strike a blow to my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize. Rom 8:13 For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.

It seems we disagree 100% on Christianity! I would rather discuss Christianity with someone like Nero, who will kill my flesh but spare my spirit from hell.

Ever do any thinking for yourself, KingJ? I find it quite worrysome when scriptures replace one's ability to speak for themselves.

 

[JackSafari]

I find it quite worrysome when scriptures replace one's ability to speak for themselves.

The Scriptures are a tool to help people, but I believe God expects each person to take full responsibility for their individuals beliefs and not simply point to the scriptures as the solo justification. If all that can be provided is a reference to the bible as proof, that simply is not enough for a personal belief to be universally true for all, past, present, future.

Jack may have been a Christian for only a few days - not enough time to have been indoctrinated with Christian Fundamentalism - or he may have been a Christian for many years and therefore matured beyond the unloving, judgmental, dogmatic, unJesus-like beliefs OF Christian Fundamentalism. Or, he might just be a naturally savvy person!

I have found "Fundamentalism" in all religions to be a cancer that destroys itself. Fundamentalism will not destroy Christianity, but it will ultimately destroy Fundamentalism, because it embraces all that is bad in any religion, such as hate, distrust, prejudices, condemnation, violent solutions. Fundamentalism is extremely exclusive, never inclusive, constantly fragmenting into to smaller and smaller fringe groups. What is good in Christianity is inclusive.

 

[KingJ]

Ever do any thinking for yourself, KingJ? I find it quite worrysome when scriptures replace one's ability to speak for themselves.

Kckid, What are you still doing here? I am surprised you are not yet banned. This site is for people who accept scripture as the truth and not their opinions.

 

[KCKID]

Kckid, What are you still doing here? I am surprised you are not yet banned. This site is for people who accept scripture as the truth and not their opinions.

This section IS a Christian debate forum and I'm willing to debate with you ANY of the scriptures that give you cause to demean another human being. Are you game?

 

[KingJ]

This section IS a Christian debate forum and I'm willing to debate with you ANY of the scriptures that give you cause to demean another human being. Are you game?

The semantics of scripture cannot be discussed until you accept all scripture as truth. Which you don't as pointed out in the closed homosexual thread. Hence discussion / debate with you is best paralelled to eating dung.

I pray for you and Jack though! I pray that God has mercy on you at judgement day. You know the scripture but twist, ignore and remove it from your belief system...making the two of you the clearest cases of false prophets.

Matt 7:15 "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves''.
Ezekiel 13 10 “‘Because they lead my people astray, saying, “Peace,” when there is no peace

 

[KCKID]

There is another thread pertaining to why are people on this forum so nasty when they're supposed to be Christians ...something like that. Well, Bruce Gerencser spent 25 years pastoring Evangelical churches. He wrote an article entitled: Why Are Some Christians So Nasty?" The link to this item is here: http://brucegerencser.net/2011/07/why-are-some-christians-so-nasty?

While Gerencser left Christianity behind I'm not suggesting for one second that anyone here even consider doing so. There is a great deal to Christianity - to Jesus and what Jesus stood for - that is worth believing in and preserving. Even Gerencser believes that even though Christianity is not now for him personally. His article is an interesting read and I hope it helps people to realize that there may be things about themselves that, if recognized and changed if need be, will make them a more competent and more readily accepted witness for Christianity.

The semantics of scripture cannot be discussed until you accept all scripture as truth. Which you don't as pointed out in the closed homosexual thread. Hence discussion / debate with you is best paralelled to eating dung.

I pray for you and Jack though! I pray that God has mercy on you at judgement day. You know the scripture but twist, ignore and remove it from your belief system...making the two of you the clearest cases of false prophets.

Matt 7:15 "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves''.
Ezekiel 13 10 “‘Because they lead my people astray, saying, “Peace,” when there is no peace

"The semantics of scripture cannot be discussed until you accept all scripture as truth. Which you don't as pointed out in the closed homosexual thread. Hence discussion/debate with you is best paralelled to eating dung."

So, all scripture is truth and, as Christians, we are not allowed to ask questions, even discuss the scriptures that go against the very grain of every decent human being? Is that what you're saying, KingJ?

Here is a scripture that I don't even question but ABSOLUTELY REJECT as being the actions of a 'holy' God. And if you, KingJ, or any other professed Christian, accept this as being the actions of a 'holy God' then heaven help you! The scripture:

"Now therefore kill every male among the little ones. and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him. keep alive for yourselves."

The complete scripture (for those who can stomach it) is found in Numbers 31:1-18

Under the command of God and Moses, the Israelites waged war against the Midianites, eventually killing everyone except the virgin female children. What should we make of this passage of scripture? On one hand, we have an example of a raging, murderous, genocidal God. But the fact that the virgin female children are spared indicates that God and Moses approve of Israelite men having sex with young girls.

In your view, KingJ, do I have to accept the truth of this story since it comes from the Bible as well as approve of the terrible things that God commanded as if in a religious stupor? Are my views on this scripture - and there are plenty more - that such a God as decribed here is a tyrant paralelled to eating dung?

Is the God we read about above the very same God who forbids gay marriage?

 

[dragonfly]

Hi KC,

You have not shown any inclination towards giving God His right as God, to TELL us what is good for us. You reject anything you don't understand, and you don't even counsel approaching Christ, in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge, to find out where you might be wrong. All your doctrine is your own, done by trying to figure out God according to today's pluralistic, relativistic, humanistic philosophies.

Do you really think He's going to be impressed by your grasp of His teaching down through the ages?

Do you realy think you can disagree with Him and it will be okay for you in the end? On what basis are you 'right' and God 'wrong'?

Seriously, please explain it to us using scripture to show how you know better than God, and it's not merely your personal, or popular.... opinion?




Hi Jack,

I think you're forgetting that God's laws hold the whole universe together. Men may legalise certain behaviours within their societal groups, but at whatever points these fall outside God's definition of righteous living, then we all need be ware that He is the higher authority, all the time.

 

[aspen]

it is impossible to live a life of freedom in Christ if you are placing all you energy trying to preserve the past or protect the truth because these actions are fear-based.

 

[Selene]

That is simply your belief, I believe otherwise. As long as laws don't limit the freedom of others to live full lives, I have no concerns what people choose to believe, or not believe.

This is a belief that comes from God. And the freedom of the homosexuals are not being limited. They already have the right to marry. They just don't like to follow the restrictions of marriage, which everyone must follow.

 

[meshak]

Very good point! Naturally, you will get your fair share of slams from others on the forum for stating this.

What must be absolutely frustrating for a gay person is knowing that, to some, especially Christians, they are damned if they're seen as being promiscuous but they are just as damned if they choose a monogamous relationship with a lifetime partner. While I'm not particularly interested in Gay Mardi Gras I can well understand why the gay community reached a point some years ago when they decided to thumb their noses at a society that had oppressed them for so long and decided to do something about it. And so now, they flaunt the 'sex' part with their over-the-top flamboyant and risque behavior just to p--s off their oppressors. Who can blame them? Any oppressed people can only be held down by someone's foot for so long. When the final straw eventually breaks the camel's back is when they say, "Enough!" Then they group together and rise up to be counted. Those that were under the control of others for so long are now in a position to assert some control of their own, much to the chagrine of the former masters. And, this is what has happened. Both the homophobes and the Christian Fundamentalist are those that have created the current 'gay monster' but they're too dumb to realize this. Once homosexuality is as accepted as hetosexuality (probably by the upcoming or the following generation) and gay marriage becomes 'the norm' the gay movement that has so many people believing that the sky is falling will have no reason to exist.



Homosexuality (and heterosexuality) are sins when they are a part of paganistic rituals as performed to images of false gods. It isn't so much the sex part but the very act of false worship and all that this entails that is offensive to God. Remember, we're told that He is a jealous God. The first commandment of the Big Ten is: "Thou shalt have no other gods but me." God has clearly planted His stake with the very first command. As I've said many times previously, there is plenty of information available online about the idol worship and the fertility rituals that were going on at the time of Bible authors. Those that have a genuine interest in seeking the truth will do just that.



I've made it crystal clear from the outset that I'm not concerned about one's sexuality. More than that, it's none of my business. It's none of yours either . . .

As for your 'cheap shot' remark. As I said before, take it up with Jesus. He's the one I quoted and (I believe) used appropriately in keeping with the general tone of the conversation.

By the way, calling me 'dude' is not necessary.


I don't know. Are you? The way Jesus phrased the comment is that NO ONE bothers to remove the plank from their own eye but they still can't mind their own business about someone's splinter anyway. So, the comment was meant for everyone for all time.


Which side of the fence are you on anyway, meshak? You seem to attack posters randomly depending on your frame of mind at the time. Earlier this week via PMs I was your good friend. Now you're coming at me like a rabid dog even though "I" am the same person with the same points of view that I've had since day one. You seem awful fickle and it's difficult (for me, anyway) to take you too seriously.



Are you saying that you're an alien, meshak ...? :blink:

Jesus' standards, by the way, had Him rubbing shoulders with the sinners of His day. He didn't condemn them or preach to them as far as I know. Not only did Jesus appreciate them for WHO they were but in so doing this also gave Him the opportunity to basically 'give the finger' to the pious Pharisees because he had no respect for them. Why? Because they were - here's that word again - hypocrites. Jesus condemned them! They knew the letter of the Law frontwards and backwards but they knew not how to apply the spirit of the Law with love. They had no right to point their judgmental fingers at others but they did so anyway. They didn't like Jesus because he ate and drank with those who, to the Pharisees, were low-life and should be spurned.

Um, sounds somewhat familiar . . .

Kid,

You dont honer Jesus' word yet you claim to be a Christian. Why is that?

Jesus says His followers are not of this world, yet you are so interested in what is going on in the world, minding their business especially about sexuality which is not such noble thing to do as His servant.

You are advocate of GLBT according to your profile; that proves you are still deeply in the world as well as your posts.

True Jesus' servants should come out of the world and they do.

 

[KCKID]

Hi KC,

You have not shown any inclination towards giving God His right as God, to TELL us what is good for us. You reject anything you don't understand, and you don't even counsel approaching Christ, in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge, to find out where you might be wrong. All your doctrine is your own, done by trying to figure out God according to today's pluralistic, relativistic, humanistic philosophies.

In the above scripture account we have a God who instructs the Israelites to kill everyone else but to keep the virgin girls for themselves. We don't have to elaborate any further, do we? Is this an example of the right of God to be God and to tell us what is good for us? Really?

Am I rejecting the above account because I'm too stupid to understand why God would demonstrate 'what is good for us' in the form of such cruelty and immorality? If I'm wrong for questioning how such tales of attrocities can possibly come from a holy source then maybe you can help me understand ...?

Do you really think He's going to be impressed by your grasp of His teaching down through the ages?

I know you don't realize this but it's YOU that is asking this question of me as though YOU are speaking for God.

Do you realy think you can disagree with Him and it will be okay for you in the end? On what basis are you 'right' and God 'wrong'?

Again, you've made yourself the mouth-piece for God. You KNOW that God will be displeased with my questioning His actions as described by the authors of the Bible. Some people don't even bother to question. They just reject the entire Bible as a myth. At least I'm still here.

On what basis am I 'right' and God 'wrong'? Well, using the above presented scripture as a case in point I believe that I'm right to condemn the author's account of the tyrannical and immoral actions of God on the basis THAT such actions ARE tyrannical and immoral! Do you never stop to consider that such scriptures do not describe God at all but are simply the author's fanciful account of an imagined deity? I realize that my saying that immediately raises red flags within the 'fundy' mind. "This man cannot possibly be a Christian and yet he's on a Christian forum ...ban him!"

There are so many questions to which I have no answers. And yet, I can still relate to Jesus ...a man who, evidently, came to save mankind from the wrath of the God of the Torah. I cannot relate to the OT God at all! Another red flag for the 'fundies'. And yet, as said, there is something very special about Jesus. How DOES one reconcile Jesus with God? After all, both the OT and the NT were written by human authors. Well, that's what I'm still trying to work out.

Seriously, please explain it to us using scripture to show how you know better than God, and it's not merely your personal, or popular.... opinion?

I don't require scripture to tell me what is immoral and what is not immoral. The pillaging of one's tribe, the brutal killing of its occupants, the raping of young girls as okayed by God as being WRONG is NOT simply my personal opinion ...whether popular or otherwise. I also don't require scripture to support my 'opinion' that gay people should not be subject to vicious condemnation by some who REALLY seem to believe that they are 'the mouth-piece for God'.

Kid,

You dont honer Jesus' word yet you claim to be a Christian. Why is that?

Jesus says His followers are not of this world, yet you are so interested in what is going on in the world, minding their business especially about sexuality which is not such noble thing to do as His servant.

You are advocate of GLBT according to your profile; that proves you are still deeply in the world as well as your posts.

True Jesus' servants should come out of the world and they do.

<sigh> I call myself a Christian for the sole purpose of irritating you, meshak.

By the way, where does Jesus tell His followers that they are not of this world? Perhaps He does but I can't recall. Chapter and verse would be nice.

I ask the same - chapter and verse - of Jesus having scolded his followers for 'advocating GLBT' in their profile.

 

[Selene]

In the above scripture account we have a God who instructs the Israelites to kill everyone else but to keep the virgin girls for themselves. We don't have to elaborate any further, do we? Is this an example of the right of God to be God and to tell us what is good for us? Really?

Am I rejecting the above account because I'm too stupid to understand why God would demonstrate 'what is good for us' in the form of such cruelty and immorality? If I'm wrong for questioning how such tales of attrocities can possibly come from a holy source then maybe you can help me understand ...?


I know you don't realize this but it's YOU that is asking this question of me as though YOU are speaking for God.


Again, you've made yourself the mouth-piece for God. You KNOW that God will be displeased with my questioning His actions as described by the authors of the Bible. Some people don't even bother to question. They just reject the entire Bible as a myth. At least I'm still here.

On what basis am I 'right' and God 'wrong'? Well, using the above presented scripture as a case in point I believe that I'm right to condemn the author's account of the tyrannical and immoral actions of God on the basis THAT such actions ARE tyrannical and immoral! Do you never stop to consider that such scriptures do not describe God at all but are simply the author's fanciful account of an imagined deity? I realize that my saying that immediately raises red flags within the 'fundy' mind. "This man cannot possibly be a Christian and yet he's on a Christian forum ...ban him!"

There are so many questions to which I have no answers. And yet, I can still relate to Jesus ...a man who, evidently, came to save mankind from the wrath of the God of the Torah. I cannot relate to the OT God at all! Another red flag for the 'fundies'. And yet, as said, there is something very special about Jesus. How DOES one reconcile Jesus with God? After all, both the OT and the NT were written by human authors. Well, that's what I'm still trying to work out.


I don't require scripture to tell me what is immoral and what is not immoral. The pillaging of one's tribe, the brutal killing of its occupants, the raping of young girls as okayed by God as being WRONG is NOT simply my personal opinion ...whether popular or otherwise. I also don't require scripture to support my 'opinion' that gay people should not be subject to vicious condemnation by some who REALLY seem to believe that they are 'the mouth-piece for God'.

The Old Testament is read in the light of the New Testament. Even in the New Testament, homosexuality is viewed as a sin. Anyone who commits sexual immorality will not enter God's kingdom. In the Old Testament, those who commit sins were killed because they were already dead. They will not have eternal life. That is the meaning behind the Old Testament.

As you see, Noah and his family were saved from the flood while the entire earth was flooded. The Bible stated that the entire earth was filled with wickedness except for Noah and his family. The moral of the story is that those who commit wicked deeds will be dead. They will not have eternal life in God's kingdom.