Is homosexuality something God can redeem?

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dragonfly

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Apr 19, 2012
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Hi Justin,

There are many spirits at work in a man's life, who finds himself with SSA or in bondage to homosexual thoughts and activities. In the Demons thread, marksman testifies of a young man who was completely delivered through prayer. This was a man who wanted to not be homosexual. I think that's a critical point. There is a spiritual work God can do if repentance is real, but before repentance, it needs to be recognised as sin.

What you need to understand about all demon possession, is, demons that lodge in the body, lodge in locations which are specific to the effect they can have on that body. When they are sent out of the body, it can both heal and begin to function normally again. But the mind is the battleground both before and after. That's why the desire of the young man to be freed from homosexual urges, worked in his favour towards a full deliverance.

There is no point in trying to deliver a person who has an on-going relationship with the demons which control areas of this thinking and acting. He or she has to want to be free from them, especially if the person has made conscious choices to engage in homosexual behaviour.

In cases of child abuse, there is definitely a moment when the child may have the opportunity to reject or continue to accept the behaviour, which if he knows what he is doing, will have an effect on how easily he gets free from the effects of the abuse. Of course, some children die being abused, so let's not assume that every victim gets away to make a rational choice to become normal, because they don't. But even this is a very simplistic comment in the light of the spiritual dynamics at work between family members who may or may not also engage in physical acts of a homosexual variety. Many lads who think they must be gay, have not been physically touched by anyone. However, the culture which has been engendered in them leads them to faulty conclusions about themselves and their perceived need for acceptance by a sexual partner, when they are still quite young, and often far too young to take on a wife. In other words, they are also too young to make a fully informed choice about the wisdom of sexual behaviour at their age.

So many both males and females live to regret their early sexual encounters, it's pretty obvious they didn't make the best decision at the time. But God is aware of all this, and He abundantly pardons the returning sinner, and is able to cleanse all sin from the soul. I do not go along with the 'under the blood' or 'covered by the blood' terminology, as it is Old Covenant, and it really doesn't convey the depth of the work of the Holy Spirit in a life which has fully yielded to Christ. Whatever sin is being renounced by any new believer, it needs to be accompanied by a change of attitude to that sin. That means a change of behaviour - not going to certain places, not meeting certain people, not spending time in old ways, but new ways.
 

KCKID

Member
Feb 14, 2013
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Selene said:
Actually, studies have shown that a large majority of gay men do not lead a healthy sex life. Studies show that most gay men acquire many sexual diseases than heterosexual men mainly because of the type of sexual activity that gay men engage in, which is anal sex. The same research study also show that this is not the case with lesbians mainly because most lesbians do not engage in anal sex. The anus was never designed to let things in. It was designed to take things out. An endorsement on homosexuality and same sex marriage only allows these gay men to obtain more sexual diseases.


Below is a weblink from CDC (Center for Disease Control and Prevention) on the health of gay and bisexual men. According to the weblink, it stated:

Sexually Transmitted Diseases (STDs) have been increasing among gay and bisexual men. Recent increases in syphilis cases have been documented across the country. In 2008, men who have sex with men (MSM) accounted for 63% of primary and secondary syphilis cases in the United States. MSM often are diagnosed with other bacterial STDs, including chlamydia and gonorrhea infections.

Gay and bisexual men can be infected with HPV (Human Papillomavirus), the most common STD in the United States. Some types of HPV cause genital and anal warts and some can lead to the development of anal and oral cancer. Men who have sex with men are 17 times more likely to develop anal cancer than heterosexual men. Men who are HIV-positive are even more likely than those who are uninfected to develop anal cancer.

http://www.cdc.gov/msmhealth/STD.htm


This is one reason why I will not support same sex marriage. If we really love our homosexual brothers, why would we support a lifestyle that would only bring them sexual diseases and an early death?
While it's commendable that you show concern for others (I mean that) same sex marriage WILL happen and will also become accepted ...perhaps not by the remaining present generation but by the upcoming generation. Fundamental Christianity (I'm not saying that's you) will also probably receive a death blow by the same generation.

Rex said:
I'm beginning to think you experience some sort of sensuality by simple talking about homosexuality LOL.
I'm sure you do.

Rex said:
It's certainly found occupancy in your mind
Yes, it has. Anything else to contribute?
 

dragonfly

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Apr 19, 2012
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Well, KC, it's great (not) to see you showing compassion for all the children whose lives will be ruined by selfish people who don't want to obey God.
 

Selene

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Apr 12, 2010
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KCKID said:
While it's commendable that you show concern for others (I mean that) same sex marriage WILL happen and will also become accepted ...perhaps not by the remaining present generation but by the upcoming generation. Fundamental Christianity (I'm not saying that's you) will also probably receive a death blow by the same generation.

Christians should start spreading the research studies on the sexual lifestyle of gay men. The more people educate themselves with the truth of this information, many will change their minds.
 

KCKID

Member
Feb 14, 2013
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Selene said:
If one can tell a pedophile to control his attraction for very young children, then one can do the same for the homosexual person. They also need to control their attraction for the same sex.
That was not an answer to the question in my post, Selene. That was, in a nutshell, where is the logic calling one sexual act a sin and not the other ...? Equating what an adult might choose to do with another adult is far different than what an adult might choose to do with a child. NO ADULT should have others dictate to them which consenting adult they can be intimate with!

Selene said:

Lust and sexual desire are the same. Love is the giving of oneself to the other person. Lust is taking from the other person in order to satisfy your sexual desire.
So, when Christian couples wish to be intimate there is no sexual desire driving them? Sounds a bit 'sus' to me . . . :rolleyes:

I sense a great deal of fear behind this brand of Christianity.


dragonfly said:
Well, KC, it's great (not) to see you showing compassion for all the children whose lives will be ruined by selfish people who don't want to obey God.
Huh? Did I miss something . . .?

Incidentally, people keep using the term 'obedience to God' so willy nilly. It's ridiculous. If we obeyed God we would be executing disobedient children, adulterers, homosexuals, non-Sabbath-keepers, etc. etc. etc.

Get real!

However, if you mean, 'obedience to Jesus', then fine. Except you don't appear to mean that if the contents of your posts are any indication. IF that be the case (obedience to Jesus), then I remind you that Jesus associated with those who the pious one's (you?) called 'sinners' on a regular basis. Jesus was gentle, kind and non-judgmental unlike a number of you on this forum. If anything, it's those such as yourself who really do appear to have little to no understanding of what 'obedience to Jesus' actually means.
 

KCKID

Member
Feb 14, 2013
351
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Townsville, QLD. Australia
Selene said:
Christians should start spreading the research studies on the sexual lifestyle of gay men. The more people educate themselves with the truth of this information, many will change their minds.
Selene, one's sexuality has nothing to do with 'changing one's mind'.
 

Selene

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Apr 12, 2010
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KCKID said:
That was not an answer to the question in my post, Selene. That was, in a nutshell, where is the logic calling one sexual act a sin and not the other ...? Equating what an adult might choose to do with another adult is far different than what an adult might choose to do with a child. NO ADULT should have others dictate to them which consenting adult they can be intimate with!


So, when Christian couples wish to be intimate there is no sexual desire driving them? Sounds a bit 'sus' to me . . . :rolleyes:

I sense a great deal of fear behind this brand of Christianity.



Huh? Did I miss something . . .?
Love is what drives couples. Married couples have sex because of their love for one another. Love is a giving of oneself to the other.


KCKID said:
Selene, one's sexuality has nothing to do with 'changing one's mind'.
My friend, there are homosexuals I know who chose to not to engage in the act of homosexuality. They struggle with lust just as we all do. This gay person I know understands that homosexuality is wrong and he attends church everyday just as I do. He understands the research studies have shown that engaging in the ACT of homosexuality will result in sexually transmitted diseases. He has seen the study and chose not to be one of the statistics. I'm sure there are others like him.

However, it is important that everyone sees the research study.....not just homosexuals. Heterosexuals need to see it especially those who are deciding or voting to allow same sex marriage. Also, to keep this research study away from people is an INJUSTICE especially to gay men who will be affected the most.
 

KCKID

Member
Feb 14, 2013
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Selene said:
Love is what drives couples. Married couples have sex because of their love for one another. Love is a giving of oneself to the other.

My friend, there are homosexuals I know who chose to not to engage in the act of homosexuality. They struggle with lust just as we all do. This gay person I know understands that homosexuality is wrong and he attends church everyday just as I do. He understands the research studies have shown that engaging in the ACT of homosexuality will result in sexually transmitted diseases. He has seen the study and chose not to be one of the statistics. I'm sure there are others like him.

However, it is important that everyone sees the research study.....not just homosexuals. Heterosexuals need to see it especially those who are deciding or voting to allow same sex marriage. Also, to keep this research study away from people is an INJUSTICE especially to gay men who will be affected the most.
Love is what drives couples you say. So, why isn't it love that drives homosexual couples?

Married couples have sex because of their love for one another, you say. But that only applies to heterosexual couples, right?

Love is giving of oneself to another, you say. All that you've said so far also applies to homosexuals.

Because you know of a homosexual who chooses to become celibate (I'm sure lots of people - both heterosexual and homosexual choose to be celibate) does not mean that ALL homosexuals should be expected to be celibate. While I have no way of knowing this, it's highly likely that the person you know has probably received do much flack from the religious ones in the past that he feels that unless he submits to their belief in his being celibate he will finish up in hell. It's THIS more so than the study of sexually transmitted diseases that drives a person to celibacy. People can always take precautions in preventing STDs whether they be gay or straight.
 

JackSafari

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Mar 5, 2013
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Selene said:
If one can tell a pedophile to control his attraction for very young children, then one can do the same for the homosexual person. They also need to control their attraction for the same sex.



Lust and sexual desire are the same. Love is the giving of oneself to the other person. Lust is taking from the other person in order to satisfy your sexual desire.
Whenever discussing\debating sexual orientation issues such as homosexuality, there is always someone who compares homosexuality to the raping of children. What two consenting adults do in private is between them, and God. Its really is nobody else business. Crimes against children have no connection to this issue.
 

Justin Mangonel

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Nov 7, 2012
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Dear D,

I agree with what you have said and I think it sheds some light on why some
turn to this life style. From one point of view this issue is pretty cut and
dried...God does not allow for gay relationships. On the other hand, and where
it gets complicated, is what do you do with people who feel they are drawn this
way but still wish to serve God? Personally, I feel that such proclivities
would exclude them from any sort of leadership position but not necessarily
from fellowship. S made the comparison with pedophilia and I think it was
a valid point. Certain behaviors are not acceptable and can never be no
matter how much justification one wishes to wrap around them.

As to homosexuality being a sin the fact of the matter is that God destroyed
five cites over this issue. He did so in the most dramatic way possible
so that the name of Sodom would become synonymous with the sin of
homosexuality. To say that God is not against homosexuality attests to a person’s
strong delusion. Furthermore, if those who look upon a woman to lust
after her have committed adultery already in their hearts the same is true of
those who lust after another person of the same sex. What people are
doing who are pro same sex marriage is that they are fighting for the right for
people to sin. They are fighting for the right of men to engage in sex with
other men and women with other women. Men, who are supposed to be made in the
image and likeness of God engaging in anal sex (among other things) with other
men who are also supposed to be made in the image and likeness of God.

One fact that cannot be disputed is that the A.I.D.S epidemic came to
America primarily through gay sex. It decimated that particular group of
people and through their behavior it jumped into the heterosexual community.
Even more damming is that people who did not engage in sin became sick through
blood transfusions (medical needs) and another subset through needle sharing
(drug addict behavior.) HIV is clearly a judgment of God meant to highlight the
sin of homosexuality along with fornication and adultery.

In the Old Testament those who engaged in homosexual behavior would have
been stoned if they were found out. This is definitely what God thought
about such behavior then. However, how does God deal with such behavior
in the new covenant where grace is given? It is worth noting that even
though Christ saved the woman caught in the very act of adultery by pointing
out how those who accused her were all worthy of death He did say go and sin no
more. Perhaps it is right to not be judgmental of people who have fallen
into homosexuality due to the fact that we are all guilty of sin too but I
think it is also correct to say go and sin no more to them too.

Maybe, in the final analysis, it is just a measure of how far we have fallen way from God that we
are even having a discussion like this. Perhaps God still feels exactly as He did in the Old Testament and there
is no room for this type of behavior under any circumstances.

In the end the most likely answer to this question is that the church, in
its weakness, has very few people with the power of God to deliver such people
from this particular type of sin. When we, as a people, start to come
into the fullness and stature of Christ I think things will be a bit different.
Until then I think that we cannot accept what is sin as normal but neither can
we reject such people wholesale and give them no hope.

Personally, I think that legalizing same sex marriage is a grave error and
will cause God to turn further away from our western civilization.

Blessings,

Justin
 

KCKID

Member
Feb 14, 2013
351
5
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Townsville, QLD. Australia
Justin Mangonel said:
Dear D,

I agree with what you have said and I think it sheds some light on why some
turn to this life style. From one point of view this issue is pretty cut and
dried...God does not allow for gay relationships. On the other hand, and where
it gets complicated, is what do you do with people who feel they are drawn this
way but still wish to serve God? Personally, I feel that such proclivities
would exclude them from any sort of leadership position but not necessarily
from fellowship. S made the comparison with pedophilia and I think it was
a valid point. Certain behaviors are not acceptable and can never be no
matter how much justification one wishes to wrap around them.

As to homosexuality being a sin the fact of the matter is that God destroyed
five cites over this issue. He did so in the most dramatic way possible
so that the name of Sodom would become synonymous with the sin of
homosexuality. To say that God is not against homosexuality attests to a person’s
strong delusion. Furthermore, if those who look upon a woman to lust
after her have committed adultery already in their hearts the same is true of
those who lust after another person of the same sex. What people are
doing who are pro same sex marriage is that they are fighting for the right for
people to sin. They are fighting for the right of men to engage in sex with
other men and women with other women. Men, who are supposed to be made in the
image and likeness of God engaging in anal sex (among other things) with other
men who are also supposed to be made in the image and likeness of God.

One fact that cannot be disputed is that the A.I.D.S epidemic came to
America primarily through gay sex. It decimated that particular group of
people and through their behavior it jumped into the heterosexual community.
Even more damming is that people who did not engage in sin became sick through
blood transfusions (medical needs) and another subset through needle sharing
(drug addict behavior.) HIV is clearly a judgment of God meant to highlight the
sin of homosexuality along with fornication and adultery.

In the Old Testament those who engaged in homosexual behavior would have
been stoned if they were found out. This is definitely what God thought
about such behavior then. However, how does God deal with such behavior
in the new covenant where grace is given? It is worth noting that even
though Christ saved the woman caught in the very act of adultery by pointing
out how those who accused her were all worthy of death He did say go and sin no
more. Perhaps it is right to not be judgmental of people who have fallen
into homosexuality due to the fact that we are all guilty of sin too but I
think it is also correct to say go and sin no more to them too.

Maybe, in the final analysis, it is just a measure of how far we have fallen way from God that we
are even having a discussion like this. Perhaps God still feels exactly as He did in the Old Testament and there
is no room for this type of behavior under any circumstances.

In the end the most likely answer to this question is that the church, in
its weakness, has very few people with the power of God to deliver such people
from this particular type of sin. When we, as a people, start to come
into the fullness and stature of Christ I think things will be a bit different.
Until then I think that we cannot accept what is sin as normal but neither can
we reject such people wholesale and give them no hope.

Personally, I think that legalizing same sex marriage is a grave error and
will cause God to turn further away from our western civilization.

Blessings,

Justin
Curiouser and curiouser. I can't quite get my head around what is going on here. There's quite a difference between your previous post/s and this one. Quite frankly, I believe that this is a topic for you that is clear cut and therefore non-debatable. But, you're also up and down. Not that you're here to please me, I AM disapponted in your recent contribution as I believed you to be a Christian worthy of the name. Now, I'm not so sure. Your agreeing, for instance, with someone who ignorantly equates homosexuality with pedophilia sent alarm bells ringing for me. I can't figure out who/what you are. I must confess, however, that your stern message is cloaked in a far heavier blanket of false piety that that of most others. There's is easy to spot. You're something else. At the end of the day, however, a hate message is a hate message. Good luck with your church that appears only to accept those that have already attained a standard of righteousness. The best that you can come up with is that the church should perhaps 'patronize' homosexuals but not actually accept them. Perhaps a sort of a leper colony might be a more apt place for them. There you can preach your message of intolerance to them from far enough away so that you are not tainted by their 'sin'.

Let me run this by you. There are only FIVE references in the Bible pertaining to homosexuality. I've already covered ground on those particular scriptures in previous posts. None of them appear to condemn homosexuality per se. And yet, according to your above post you strongly imply that God has a particular ax to grind with homosexuals. To reinforce this you say that 5 cities were destroyed because of homosexuality. THAT is a downright fabrication! NOWEHERE does the Bible say that Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed because of homosexuality ...let alone the other cities you threw in there for good measure. You need to either present scripture for this claim or you need to do the right thing and retract your claim. To be against homosexuality for personal reasons is one thing - then we can refer to that person as a bigot or a homophobe if need be. For one to genuinely believe - while not condemning - that homosexuality is probably not beneficial for either the homosexual or for society is another. But to use scripture to condemn homosexuality where no such scripture exists is something else! This HAS to be stopped!
 

JB_Reformed Baptist

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KCKID said:
Curiouser and curiouser. I can't quite get my head around what is going on here. There's quite a difference between your previous post/s and this one. Quite frankly, I believe that this is a topic for you that is clear cut and therefore non-debatable. But, you're also up and down. Not that you're here to please me, I AM disapponted in your recent contribution as I believed you to be a Christian worthy of the name. Now, I'm not so sure. Your agreeing, for instance, with someone who ignorantly equates homosexuality with pedophilia sent alarm bells ringing for me. I can't figure out who/what you are. I must confess, however, that your stern message is cloaked in a far heavier blanket of false piety that that of most others. There's is easy to spot. You're something else. At the end of the day, however, a hate message is a hate message. Good luck with your church that appears only to accept those that have already attained a standard of righteousness. The best that you can come up with is that the church should perhaps 'patronize' homosexuals but not actually accept them. Perhaps a sort of a leper colony might be a more apt place for them. There you can preach your message of intolerance to them from far enough away so that you are not tainted by their 'sin'.

Let me run this by you. There are only FIVE references in the Bible pertaining to homosexuality. I've already covered ground on those particular scriptures in previous posts. None of them appear to condemn homosexuality per se. And yet, according to your above post you say that God has a particular ax to grind with homosexuals. You say that 5 cities were destroyed because of homosexuality. THAT is a downright fabrication! NOWEHERE does it say that Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed because of homosexuality ...let alone the other cities you threw in there. You need to either present scripture for this claim or you need to do the right thing and retract your claim. To be against homosexuality for personal reasons is one thing - then we can refer to that person as a bigot or a homophobe if need be. But to use scripture to condemn homosexuality where no such scripture exists is something else! This HAS to be stopped!

HAhahaha, yeah thats right, soddy and gomorrah were destroyed because of inhospitality, hey kid? LOL! :lol:
 

KCKID

Member
Feb 14, 2013
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JB_Reformed Baptist said:
HAhahaha, yeah thats right, soddy and gomorrah were destroyed because of inhospitality, hey kid? LOL! :lol:
I didn't say that ...Ezekiel 16:49 did. He's the one you should call a liar!

You can also call Jesus a liar. Here He equates Sodom and Gomorrah to the act of inhospitality: "Whatever town or village you enter, search for some worthy person and stay at his house until you leave. As you enter the home, give it your greeting. If the home is deserving. let your peace rest on it; if it is not, let your peace return to you. If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, shake the dust off your feet when you leave that home or town, I tell you the truth, it will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town (Matthew 10:11-15)."

Still feeling smug?

By the way, this IS a debate forum. You're free to really make me look stupid by presenting me with a scripture that claims that Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed because of homosexuality. I say that there isn't one. You laugh and mock with self righteous complacency. Come on, laughing boy, present your text ...!
 

JackSafari

New Member
Mar 5, 2013
146
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KCKID said:
Curiouser and curiouser. I can't quite get my head around what is going on here. There's quite a difference between your previous post/s and this one. Quite frankly, I believe that this is a topic for you that is clear cut and therefore non-debatable. But, you're also up and down. Not that you're here to please me, I AM disapponted in your recent contribution as I believed you to be a Christian worthy of the name. Now, I'm not so sure. Your agreeing, for instance, with someone who ignorantly equates homosexuality with pedophilia sent alarm bells ringing for me. I can't figure out who/what you are. I must confess, however, that your stern message is cloaked in a far heavier blanket of false piety that that of most others. There's is easy to spot. You're something else. At the end of the day, however, a hate message is a hate message. Good luck with your church that appears only to accept those that have already attained a standard of righteousness. The best that you can come up with is that the church should perhaps 'patronize' homosexuals but not actually accept them. Perhaps a sort of a leper colony might be a more apt place for them. There you can preach your message of intolerance to them from far enough away so that you are not tainted by their 'sin'.

Let me run this by you. There are only FIVE references in the Bible pertaining to homosexuality. I've already covered ground on those particular scriptures in previous posts. None of them appear to condemn homosexuality per se. And yet, according to your above post you say that God has a particular ax to grind with homosexuals. You say that 5 cities were destroyed because of homosexuality. THAT is a downright fabrication! NOWEHERE does it say that Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed because of homosexuality ...let alone the other cities you threw in there. You need to either present scripture for this claim or you need to do the right thing and retract your claim. To be against homosexuality for personal reasons is one thing - then we can refer to that person as a bigot or a homophobe if need be. But to use scripture to condemn homosexuality where no such scripture exists is something else! This HAS to be stopped!
Yes attempts to link sex crimes against children to homosexuality is a strong indication that the person is at the very least extremely misinformed and\or wants to justify his contempt by suggesting homosexuals prey on children. Really not all that different than a few decades ago with the myths about children of interracial couples were of low IQ and predisposed to commit crimes, thus proof that interracial marriages were also an abomination and should be illegal. Now of course, such myths are discounted both in science and religion.

Also, valid point about how soft spoken people can be just as judgmental and condemning as hardcore people who use more abusive language to make the same point. And people who are followers by nature can be just as blind because questioning authority is not something that comes natural to them even in the face of injustice.
 

JB_Reformed Baptist

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KCKID said:
Not me ...Ezekiel 16:49. He's the one you should call a liar!
Keeping in mind the context and the analogy that God used when referring to Israel's behavior, such comparisons in the form of a proverb isn't unusual. If that be the ONLY sin that Sodom and Gomorrah committed, then that would be the end of it. However, scripture points to the end of those who indulge in the flesh and despise God's judgement and authority. Romans 1:FF

This as you have pointed out is ONLY a precursor to the sexual immorality of all kinds. As one indulges in their senses they begin to then indulge in their imagination so as to not draw a line between proper and improper behavior. It ought to be noted; this is what is happening in this age. i.e "rights of the people" breeds Luxury, laziness under the disguise of technology and expedience and an increase in sexual immorality and the neglect of the needy.

The end of such self-indulgence and self importance is debauchery. Jude 1: 7; 2 Peter 2: 6-8

When the upper class of England were found to be bored, what mischief and evil did they get up to? What saith history?


So; Man refuses to retain God in his heart. Man then indulges his senses to his own vain imaginations satisfaction. God gives man over to that imagination. Man becomes degenerate as revealed in Holy writ.
 

Angelina

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Yes...God can redeem anyone if they repent and turn from their sinful lifestyle. Our God is a mighty God and the blood of Jesus can cleanse anyone who confesses and believes in him.

Be Blessed!
 

HeRoseFromTheDead

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KCKID said:
I didn't say that ...Ezekiel 16:49 did. He's the one you should call a liar!

Homosexuality was not a problem in Ezekiel's culture (if it even existed), so there was no need to address it. However, the sins he did address in 16:49 were a big problem.

And FYI, the Hebrew in that verse doesn't say that pride, abundance of food and idleness, and refusal to help the poor and needy were THE iniquity of Sodom (which you are trying to imply in an attempt to minimize the sinfulness of sodomy), but rather that those things were iniquity in Sodom. There is no definite article in the Hebrew.
 

KCKID

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Feb 14, 2013
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ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
Homosexuality was not a problem in Ezekiel's culture (if it even existed), so there was no need to address it. However, the sins he did address in 16:49 were a big problem.

And FYI, the Hebrew in that verse doesn't say that pride, abundance of food and idleness, and refusal to help the poor and needy were THE iniquity of Sodom (which you are trying to imply in an attempt to minimize the sinfulness of sodomy), but rather that those things were iniquity in Sodom. There is no definite article in the Hebrew.
What unmittigated nonsense are you trying to pull here CRFTD? One more time, the text from Ezekiel reads: "Now THIS (my emphasis with which to make a point) was the sin (iniquity) of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters (like cities) were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy." Now, are you trying to say that there is an oversight somewhere in that text that should have more accurately included homosexuality/sodomy? Well, we can try that if you wish ...just to see how it looks: "Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed, unconcerned, sodomists and homosexuals; they did not help the poor and needy." Does this more fit into your anti-gay frame of mind? Unfortunately for you, the first scripture is the only one we have. Then, of course, there is the scripture - printed in a recent post - where Jesus equates 'inhospitality' with Sodom and Gomorrah. So, between Ezekiel and Jesus I think we know WHAT the sins of Sodom & Gomorrah were.

Okay, that said, I will concede that lots of nasty things would probably have been going on in S&G - if the story is true and they were actually real cities. Probably much the same as goes on in any city, I guess. Greed, drunkenness, debauchery, prostitution, adultery, thieving, cheating, immorality of both hetero and homosexuality kind ... and ...idolatry. The latter in particular would stir up wrath in God like nothing else and many of the practices mentioned may well have been associated with idolatry. Without searching through the entire book of Ezekiel I'm sure that the god, Tammuz, is mentioned several times. In fact, I'm sure that Ezekiel is disgusted at how the women are worshipping Tammuz. Ezekiel refers to the practice of Tammuz worship as 'an abomination.' It would appear that it was common practice in S&G for male strangers to be met by a welcoming party. This welcoming party would proceed to show their hospitality by raping these male strangers. Why? Because strangers were not welcome there. There was no better way to make sure that a male visitor would not return to the city once they had been sodomized, demasculinized and intimidated by other men. Being inhospitable might sound pretty mild to we of today (not offering someone a glass of water, for instance) but the form of inhospitality as demonstrated in some of the cities back then were FAR from mild. Being inhospitable had a whole different meaning! Were the guys who raped the male visitors homosexual? No! This was not an act of sex ...this was an act of violence! These guys were probably married men with families.

It's probably an odd thing to do, equate the above with a movie, but I will. I don't know how many have seen the 1972 Burt Reynold's movie "Deliverance" ...? Anyway, Burt and his buddies set out to river-raft their way down the Cahulawassee River, Georgia, in the dangerous American back country. This is hill-billy country with a number of strange inbred families inhabiting the area. One young inbred 5-string banjo playing boy accompanies one of Burt's guitar-toting buddies in a duet of the famous tune, Dueling Banjoes. Anyway, as they progress down the river in two separate craft, two of the team stop off to explore the terrain. They're met there by two mountain men who have a hatred of strangers. One of the most disturbing events ever filmed up until that time occurs where one of the team (Ned Beaty) is not only savagely raped by one of the mountain men but also made to squeal like a pig. Was this man a homosexual? Who knows, but this was not why he raped Ned Beaty. He raped him because he was an unwelcome stranger. i.e. THIS is what happens when you encroach on OUR territory!

Apply the above example to Sodom and Gomorrah and you will then begin to understand what "inhospitality" means . . .
 

HeRoseFromTheDead

Not So Advanced Member
Jan 6, 2012
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KCKID said:
What unmittigated nonsense are you trying to pull here CRFTD? ...

Apply the above example to Sodom and Gomorrah and you will then begin to understand what "inhospitality" means . . .
That may be how you treat strangers in your country, but that depiction in that movie is Hollywood myth, just like your expositions of scripture. It is really funny to see you spend so much time writing so many stupid words.
 
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