Is it ever ok to lie?

[Lambano]

The lying spirit was sent, God did not himself lie. Same goes for other times spirits were used.

Are you sure you want to make that argument? The counter-argument goes like this: Suppose the head of a crime syndicate sends a hit man to assassinate somebody. Just because the crime boss didn't get his own hands dirty, does that absolve him of the murder?

 

[charity]

The bible tells us that "Satan is the father of lies"

Ok

So then, is there ever an appropriate reason for us to lie?

What about withholding the truth?
Is that just as bad as a lie?

Hello @Cristo Rei,

I agree with @Rita, in reply#2, each occasion in which lying is contemplated must be evaluated according to the circumstance. The same thing applies to the discussion concerning the 'lying spirits' who acted in accord with God's will in regard to Ahab, which @Lambano was uncomfortable with (#8) and @Wrangler being blisteringly honest about (#7 & #9). I can understand @Lambano's discomfort, and shrink a little from the sharp light of @Wrangler's pronouncement upon it, yet cannot deny it to be true. Yet God is at war, and there is a saying that 'all is fair in love and war', isn't there? (not that I subscribe to that) - again circumstances and motivation are the decider.

I live in between two waring factions within my family circle, and find I have to walk a tightrope regarding what I reveal about both to each, and sometimes that requires withholding truth.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Lambano]

like, if someone asks ‘ do I look fat ‘ how many people would be honest and answer ‘ yes you do ‘ !

This ad always cracks me up:

 

[Lambano]

...and sometimes that requires withholding truth.

That's the best kind of lie. Deception by omission. But I understand your situation.

 

[Lambano]

et God is at war, and there is a saying that 'all is fair in love and war', isn't there? (not that I subscribe to that) - again circumstances and motivation are the decider.

I have had friends who served in Vietnam, and my stepson served in Bosnia, Iraq, and Afghanistan. Since I'm an engineer, many in my circle have worked in the Defense industry. There are situations in which withholding the truth and if necessary outright lying is unquestionably the morally correct choice, especially when revealing the truth can result in the death of many, slavery, or worse.

I would not say that God is "at war", though. God is sovereign over this whole show.

 

[Deborah_]

There is no blanket commandment "Thou shalt not ever tell a lie" in the Bible. The ninth commandment says, "Do not give false testimony" - which is lying in specific context, in a court of justice. And by extension, never tell lies about someone in order to defame (or whitewash, as the case may be) their character.

But there are many many instances in the Bible of God endorsing lying (or incomplete truth-telling) in order to prevent harm to people. He even gave Samuel a "cover story" to enable him to go safely to Bethlehem to anoint David king (I Samuel 16:1,2)! Wartime (it's perfectly legitimate to deceive the enemy) and persecution (e.g. David and Michal deceiving Saul) are circumstances in which lying is very often the lesser of two evils.

So we shouldn't be stricter than God. But we shouldn't tell lies unless there really is a good reason to do so - which is probably far less often than we think.

 

[dev553344]

The bible tells us that "Satan is the father of lies"

Ok

So then, is there ever an appropriate reason for us to lie?

What about withholding the truth?
Is that just as bad as a lie?

Jesus just withholds the truth from us. Might give us a parable or something.

 

[charity]

I have had friends who served in Vietnam, and my stepson served in Bosnia, Iraq, and Afghanistan. Since I'm an engineer, I many in my circle have worked in the Defense industry. There are situations in which withholding the truth and if necessary outright lying is unquestionably the morally correct choice, especially when revealing the truth can result in the death of many, slavery, or worse.

I would not say that God is "at war", though. God is sovereign over this whole show.

Hello there,

There are many enemies yet to be defeated before God can be 'all in all' (1 Corinthians 15:28) though aren't there? which is why Christ will reign until He has put all enemies under His feet, the last being death itself, yes? (1 Corinthians 15:26). Daniel 10:20-21 also give a glimpse of the spiritual warfare that exists.

Ephesians 6:12, 2 Corinthians 10:4-5, and 1 Timothy 1:18-19 indicate that we are at war against spiritual foes.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[BloodBought 1953]

For me it’s a no- brainer....I’ll lie my rear- end off it keeps from hurting somebody’s feelings....

 

[lforrest]

There has been more examples than that
How about Abraham?
God told him He would kill his child but then He didn't. A test perhaps but is it not a lie?

I think not as God was establishing that the firstborn male of every womb belongs to God. This would have included Isaac. By withholding knowledge of the Redemption offering that God was going to allow he tested Abraham.

However without the offering his life would have been expected.

 

[Cristo Rei]

And to establish that God lied to Abraham when he said he was going to kill his child

 

[APAK]

Jacob would never had been the Israel of a nation and a future Kingdom without a lie permitted by God and then plotted and perpetrated by Rebekah, Jacob's mum who was permitted to discern the evil spirit within Esau, her other son and the eldest one.

Esau would have gained his Father's blessing and the plan of God would have gone sideways into evil....not happening of course as God does not permit evil to mess up his plan.

This is an example of why God permits lies to stem the tide of evil and so not to derail his plan of restoration for mankind.

 

[Cristo Rei]

I'm still torn and haven't voted. I'm not certain

 

[Cristo Rei]

Jacob would never had been the Israel of a nation and a future Kingdom without a lie permitted by God and then plotted and perpetrated by Rebekah, Jacob's mum who was permitted to discern the evil spirit within Esau, her other son and the eldest one.

Esau would have gained his Father's blessing and the plan of God would have gone sideways into evil....not happening of course as God does not permit evil to mess up his plan.

This is an example of why God permits lies to stem the tide of evil and so not to derail his plan of restoration for mankind.

Ha talking about lying I feel like such a hypocrite now if you look in our PM.
A joking lie.
I suppose I should vote now true

 

[Cristo Rei]

There is no blanket commandment "Thou shalt not ever tell a lie" in the Bible. The ninth commandment says, "Do not give false testimony" - which is lying in specific context, in a court of justice. And by extension, never tell lies about someone in order to defame (or whitewash, as the case may be) their character.

But there are many many instances in the Bible of God endorsing lying (or incomplete truth-telling) in order to prevent harm to people. He even gave Samuel a "cover story" to enable him to go safely to Bethlehem to anoint David king (I Samuel 16:1,2)! Wartime (it's perfectly legitimate to deceive the enemy) and persecution (e.g. David and Michal deceiving Saul) are circumstances in which lying is very often the lesser of two evils.

So we shouldn't be stricter than God. But we shouldn't tell lies unless there really is a good reason to do so - which is probably far less often than we think.

Hello fellow lover of Swans... LoL
Hey Deb, have you ever seen a black Swan like in my avatar?
Probably not. We haven't got the beautiful one swans in Australia. Their black with a red bill.
Their originally only from here but they've exported them to other parts, maybe the UK too, I'm not sure

 

[Lambano]

Generally speaking, I'd rather tell the truth whenever possible. I hate having to keep track of which lies I told to which people.

 

[Philip James]

Generally speaking, I'd rather tell the truth whenever possible. I hate having to keep track of which lies I told to which people.

Truthful lips endure forever, the lying tongue, for only a moment.

Christ is risen!
Alleluia!

 

[James Macbeth]

We should avoid lying at all cost.

But each sin has its own weight.

Thus one lie is not as heavy as another.

The best example I can give is, if a poor man steels bread to feed his family, is it a Sin? Yes. But very light.

And if a rich man steels bread from the poor, is it a Sin? Yes. But much heavier.

But we cannot say as Christians that lying is ok, and not a Sin.

But we can say if you lie, beg for forgiveness.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Generally speaking, I'd rather tell the truth whenever possible. I hate having to keep track of which lies I told to which people.

Wasn’t it Lincoln who said words to the effect that nobody has a good enough memory to be be a good Liar?

 

[APAK]

We should avoid lying at all cost.

But each sin has its own weight.

Thus one lie is not as heavy as another.

The best example I can give is, if a poor man steels bread to feed his family, is it a Sin? Yes. But very light.

And if a rich man steels bread from the poor, is it a Sin? Yes. But much heavier.

But we cannot say as Christians that lying is ok, and not a Sin.

But we can say if you lie, beg for forgiveness.

James, welcome, and I hope the College Station you are hailing from is in TX else I need to erase the following words...

So you are from the lesser of the two finest engineering schools in TX or even the US. I was a tea sipper of the more posh school of learning. UT all the way! I had some land, 10 acres, I was going to build upon outside Centerville in Leon county not too far away from your location. It just did not work out.

Back to your post...
You know your post does bring up some things I've always thought of raising on the subject of sin and what is sin and if I sinned or not. Before we can say it's ok or not to sin, we first need to address what is and when is sin being committed...I'm leaning on your post here to preach a bit, nothing too personal. I will leave it soon...

My personal view and I don't find it disputing any scripture either.

When sin becomes first registered in our mind does it go to the depth of our heart? Or does it register first in our heart? We must be sure that what our conscience or awareness in spirit tells of a 'sin' one bears inside of us, is it from God and not from our own mind or self will, or worse yet, of the injection of the evil one. I believe there are folks here and in all walks of life that think they have sinned and they have not according to God, ESPECIALLY when they are genuine believers in Christ and possess 'his spirit.'

Well I certainly know it is sin that occurred as I always become convicted of it in my heart first and NOT my mind. And the Spirit always makes its presence known.

So in a typical day or a week I cannot say I sin at all - far and few between.

And then there is the so-called 'regretted sin' when we initially do not regret and eventually regret harming or hurting someone in any way. Are we separating ourselves from God or the person we have done wrong? They are not the same thing even though emotions rise in such discussions. Scripture tells us to first settle these grievances or disputes together before one comes to him to worship. These are not sin, and yet a large percentage of what we call sin is not sin at all. What truly separates us from God is sin, and people issues are generally not sin at all that causes spiritual separation or the grieving of the Spirit.

I can see why many people get overly obsessed with sin and they should not. And the RC does not make matters any easier, as they have a graduated scale of all sin they label, from Mortal to Venial. Give me a break they are making some believers mental cases.

Now when we lie even quietly or even unwillingly and yet we did, just because we know it's wrong, does this truly separate ourselves from God. And you know since I've been a believer for many years now, I hate more and more lying, cheating and omitting the truth more than ever....my spirit that is in union with me, the spirit of truth has molded me to be this way as a life style, since being a kid.

Off you post now and thank you for letting me use it to lean on....