Is it ever ok to lie?

[Cristo Rei]

The bible tells us that "Satan is the father of lies"

Ok

So then, is there ever an appropriate reason for us to lie?

What about withholding the truth?
Is that just as bad as a lie?

 

[Rita]

I don’t know about you Cristo , but I was brought up on the false assumption that it’s okay to lie if it is a white lie. Meaning if the motive is not one of malice or harm, but with the premise to protect.
The answer must be a ‘ no it’s not okay ‘ BUT …in reality is it as easy as that not to relay the complete truth or
Lie in order to protect for the right reasons.

like, if someone asks ‘ do I look fat ‘ how many people would be honest and answer ‘ yes you do ‘ !
What about when there is a surprise planned and in order to get someone to a surprise you have to give false information, you lie !
Or If someone is ill and you are waiting for confirmation but you have in your possession a letter from a consultant that relays what they think it is , but you choose to withhold some of that letter in order to protect someone you love until you have proof ( a situation I am ion with my dad right now ) .
Rita

 

[Philip James]

The bible tells us that "Satan is the father of lies"

Ok

So then, is there ever an appropriate reason for us to lie?

What about withholding the truth?
Is that just as bad as a lie?

Hello Cristo,

No. It is never ok to lie.

No, withholding the truth (remaining silent) is not necessarily bad. It depends entirely on the context of the situation.

Pax et Bonum

Christ is risen!
Alleluia!

 

[lforrest]

I think lying by omission isn't biblical. Maybie it is a thing for those under the authority of another, or if they have an agreement to report.

Suppose someone is acting in a play, is it alright to lie then? I think it is to be expected acting in a play.

 

[bbyrd009]

Rahab lied, right

 

[lforrest]

Perhaps the ruler is angry with good reason. This scripture tells us to continue about your businesses, as opposed to running to them to confess.
Ecclesiastes 10:4

 

[Wrangler]

Lying is a tool in warfare and make no mistake, we are in spiritual warfare. It is OK to like when it is the will of God - and there are many Scriptural examples. The midwives in Moses day lied and were honored by God to spare the slaughter of baby boys. The with Rahab as another already pointed out.

God lied to 400 prophets and to Adam and Even about dying the day they ate the forbidden fruit. It was a cruel lie for him to tell Abraham that he wants him to kill his only son - then say, only kidding. Many times Scripture says God 'hardened Pharoahs heart,' which is a way of saying he brilliantly deceived Pharoah of his own good judgment.

2 Chronicles 20:22-24 tell where God made an army think their comrades were their enemies and all were slaughtered.

Jesus deliberately spoke in parables so many would not understand. What do you call that? Cryptic answers are meant to deceive. Example. I once asked my stepdaughter if she returned things she borrowed. She said she did not put it ALL back, deceptively implying she put SOMETHING back. Only with the follow up question, did she admit she put nothing back.

Jesus would not answer direct questions, even about his Messiahship. Then he referred to something other than the literal temple. After being resurrected Jesus made himself unrecognizable, not only at first but to 2 people leaving Jerusalem. Is this not deceiving of his true appearance? Is this not a lie?

The commandment to not bear false witness is tied to not using the LORD's name in vain; to tell the truth in a court proceeding. Lying for ones own benefit is generally not allowed and it is debatable if not answering is a form of lying under certain conditions. Last night my wife asked a question, she asked again. I told her if I do not say yes and consent, the answer is no. And I'm not going to succumb to the pressure of giving her the answer she wants. One can be in contempt of court for refusing to answer a question for it is certainly not telling the truth.

Hope this helps.

 

[Lambano]

And the LORD said, ‘Who will entice Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead?’ And one said one thing, and another said another. Then a spirit came forward and stood before the LORD, saying, ‘I will entice him.’ And the LORD said to him, ‘By what means?’ And he said, ‘I will go out, and will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.’ And He said, ‘You are to entice him, and you shall succeed; go out and do so.’ (1 Kings 22:20-22)

I guess that lie was endorsed by God.

Is anyone besides me uncomfortable with this scripture?

 

[Wrangler]

And the LORD said, ‘Who will entice Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead?’ And one said one thing, and another said another. Then a spirit came forward and stood before the LORD, saying, ‘I will entice him.’ And the LORD said to him, ‘By what means?’ And he said, ‘I will go out, and will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.’ And He said, ‘You are to entice him, and you shall succeed; go out and do so.’ (1 Kings 22:20-22)

I guess that lie was endorsed by God.

Is anyone besides me uncomfortable with this scripture?

Discernment. Only those who are on milk might be uncomfortable with it, who cling to an idealistic and false notion that God never lies.

God is portrayed in Scripture as a warrior, sometimes called The LORD of Heaven's Armies. Who did God endorse a lie to? Not his beloved children, who are us. Deception is a tool of war and God uses it against his Spiritual enemies - as any good military commander would.

Consider the basis to claim that Jesus is from the line of David. It is only true on his stepfathers side. It's a stretch, to say the least. Yet, we must realize the devil is keenly aware of what God's words are and a wise God would not fully reveal his hand to the Adversary.

Make a Blessed Day.

 

[Behold]

What about withholding the truth?
Is that just as bad as a lie?

The Truth is a beautiful thing, and Jesus Is the Truth. John 14:6
However, the Truth, as a Christian moral value, has no grey area or flexibility.
The truth can set you free, and the truth can break your heart.

Perhaps the worst type of "being honest", is, when it means to help, but only harms. When its trying to do the right thing and just destroys a person.
This would be a situation where you know something about someone, and you get asked, and you dont handle that well.
So, you tell the truth, and a marriage is destroyed or a life is ruined, or someone commits suicide or murder, because the TRUTH got out.

 

[lforrest]

Lying is a tool in warfare and make no mistake, we are in spiritual warfare. It is OK to like when it is the will of God - and there are many Scriptural examples. The midwives in Moses day lied and were honored by God to spare the slaughter of baby boys. The with Rahab as another already pointed out.

God lied to 400 prophets and to Adam and Even about dying the day they ate the forbidden fruit. It was a cruel lie for him to tell Abraham that he wants him to kill his only son - then say, only kidding. Many times Scripture says God 'hardened Pharoahs heart,' which is a way of saying he brilliantly deceived Pharoah of his own good judgment.

2 Chronicles 20:22-24 tell where God made an army think their comrades were their enemies and all were slaughtered.

Jesus deliberately spoke in parables so many would not understand. What do you call that? Cryptic answers are meant to deceive. Example. I once asked my stepdaughter if she returned things she borrowed. She said she did not put it ALL back, deceptively implying she put SOMETHING back. Only with the follow up question, did she admit she put nothing back.

Jesus would not answer direct questions, even about his Messiahship. Then he referred to something other than the literal temple. After being resurrected Jesus made himself unrecognizable, not only at first but to 2 people leaving Jerusalem. Is this not deceiving of his true appearance? Is this not a lie?

The commandment to not bear false witness is tied to not using the LORD's name in vain; to tell the truth in a court proceeding. Lying for ones own benefit is generally not allowed and it is debatable if not answering is a form of lying under certain conditions. Last night my wife asked a question, she asked again. I told her if I do not say yes and consent, the answer is no. And I'm not going to succumb to the pressure of giving her the answer she wants. One can be in contempt of court for refusing to answer a question for it is certainly not telling the truth.

Hope this helps.

God doesn't lie. Each of these interpretations can be debunked.

The lying spirit was sent, God did not himself lie. Same goes for other times spirits were used.

Adam and Eve died the same day from God's perspective as a day is as a thousand years and thousand years as a day. Also if the ages of creation are divided into seven ages, then it is still the sixth day, and the seventh is the Lord's rest. That day is soon to come, yet it is now here for those in the kingdom.

Hardening someone's heart is no lie.

Jesus made himself unrecognizable, this is no more a deception than when you close the curtains in your house for privacy.

 

[Wrangler]

The lying spirit was sent, God did not himself lie.

He did authorize the lying by the Spirit, correct?

 

[Wrangler]

Adam and Eve died the same day from God's perspective as a day is as a thousand years and thousand years as a day.

Really? Inserting words into Scripture violates Mark 7:13.

What a <period of time> seems like does not alter what that <period of time> is. Do you suppose Adam and Eve took God's words to mean they die ~900 years later?

 

[lforrest]

Really? Inserting words into Scripture violates Mark 7:13.

What a <period of time> seems like does not alter what that <period of time> is. Do you suppose Adam and Eve took God's words to mean they die ~900 years later?

I was not quoting scripture, otherwise you would get a chapter & verse.
What Adam and Eve understood is irrelevant. Not God's responsibility for people to understand him correctly.

 

[Wrangler]

I was not quoting scripture, otherwise you would get a chapter & verse.
What Adam and Eve understood is irrelevant. Not God's responsibility for people to understand him correctly.

He lied - and not just that one time. He lied multiple times and I showed it. And he commanded others to lie.

Understanding God correctly is alot easier when one does not disobey.

 

[Cristo Rei]

I don’t know about you Cristo , but I was brought up on the false assumption that it’s okay to lie if it is a white lie. Meaning if the motive is not one of malice or harm, but with the premise to protect.
The answer must be a ‘ no it’s not okay ‘ BUT …in reality is it as easy as that not to relay the complete truth or
Lie in order to protect for the right reasons.

like, if someone asks ‘ do I look fat ‘ how many people would be honest and answer ‘ yes you do ‘ !
What about when there is a surprise planned and in order to get someone to a surprise you have to give false information, you lie !
Or If someone is ill and you are waiting for confirmation but you have in your possession a letter from a consultant that relays what they think it is , but you choose to withhold some of that letter in order to protect someone you love until you have proof ( a situation I am ion with my dad right now ) .
Rita

I'm still thinking about it Rita. I haven't voted yet and I wanted to read people's arguments first.

Your right that there are many situations where it may be better to lie or withhold the truth in order not to hurt someone. I was already thinking that. But let's see what others say

PS. I hope things aren't too stressful for your father and your family. I pray that things go smoothly without too much pain

 

[Cristo Rei]

Hello Cristo,

No. It is never ok to lie.

No, withholding the truth (remaining silent) is not necessarily bad. It depends entirely on the context of the situation.

Pax et Bonum

Christ is risen!
Alleluia!

Rita gives some decent examples of when people lie to save from hurting someone. Context is everything in this situation I think.

 

[Cristo Rei]

Lying is a tool in warfare and make no mistake, we are in spiritual warfare. It is OK to like when it is the will of God - and there are many Scriptural examples. The midwives in Moses day lied and were honored by God to spare the slaughter of baby boys. The with Rahab as another already pointed out.

God lied to 400 prophets and to Adam and Even about dying the day they ate the forbidden fruit. It was a cruel lie for him to tell Abraham that he wants him to kill his only son - then say, only kidding. Many times Scripture says God 'hardened Pharoahs heart,' which is a way of saying he brilliantly deceived Pharoah of his own good judgment.

2 Chronicles 20:22-24 tell where God made an army think their comrades were their enemies and all were slaughtered.

Jesus deliberately spoke in parables so many would not understand. What do you call that? Cryptic answers are meant to deceive. Example. I once asked my stepdaughter if she returned things she borrowed. She said she did not put it ALL back, deceptively implying she put SOMETHING back. Only with the follow up question, did she admit she put nothing back.

Jesus would not answer direct questions, even about his Messiahship. Then he referred to something other than the literal temple. After being resurrected Jesus made himself unrecognizable, not only at first but to 2 people leaving Jerusalem. Is this not deceiving of his true appearance? Is this not a lie?

The commandment to not bear false witness is tied to not using the LORD's name in vain; to tell the truth in a court proceeding. Lying for ones own benefit is generally not allowed and it is debatable if not answering is a form of lying under certain conditions. Last night my wife asked a question, she asked again. I told her if I do not say yes and consent, the answer is no. And I'm not going to succumb to the pressure of giving her the answer she wants. One can be in contempt of court for refusing to answer a question for it is certainly not telling the truth.

Hope this helps.

Thanks. You gave some excellent examples...

Perhaps lying can be divided into 2 categories.
- Ones with good intentions
- Ones with bad intentions

 

[Cristo Rei]

God doesn't lie. Each of these interpretations can be debunked.

The lying spirit was sent, God did not himself lie. Same goes for other times spirits were used.

Adam and Eve died the same day from God's perspective as a day is as a thousand years and thousand years as a day. Also if the ages of creation are divided into seven ages, then it is still the sixth day, and the seventh is the Lord's rest. That day is soon to come, yet it is now here for those in the kingdom.

Hardening someone's heart is no lie.

Jesus made himself unrecognizable, this is no more a deception than when you close the curtains in your house for privacy.

There has been more examples than that
How about Abraham?
God told him He would kill his child but then He didn't. A test perhaps but is it not a lie?

 

[Lambano]

Discernment. Only those who are on milk might be uncomfortable with it, who cling to an idealistic and false notion that God never lies.

Then you have to ask, "What else did God lie about?"