Is it ever ok to lie?

[Rita]

I have a dilemma with the situation with my dad. My dad was due to have another scan on Saturday, the hospital rang me on my mobile this morning to cancel ( they usually ring my dad ). Her words ‘ We do not need to do the scan because the CT scan has revealed all that the doctors needed to know ‘
I responded ‘ is that good or bad news ‘ ?
She responded ‘ Well it’s good news that you don’t have to do to the hospital on Saturday ! ‘
1. Why relay that message to me and not my dad unless they know it is really relaying a confirmation.
2. If they found nothing in the ct scan surely they would have done the second one to make sure
3. Should I tell my dad what I think the cancellation means or still leave it until we see the consultant next Friday ( at the moment he has not grasped that he could have cancer, so if I leave it I am giving him another week not to deal with this reality )
I hate this, I would rather the doctors just tell me and then in my own way I could relay it in his own home, rather than in a clinical room where we will then have to travel home.
It feels so deceitful knowing something and not relaying it……….
Don’t mean to derail the thread Cristo, but this is about withholding truth, for all the right reasons, but not knowing if it’s the right thing to do.
Part of me wants to protect my dad from hearing the words ‘ you have terminal cancer ‘ …….
Rita

 

[lforrest]

I have a dilemma with the situation with my dad. My dad was due to have another scan on Saturday, the hospital rang me on my mobile this morning to cancel ( they usually ring my dad ). Her words ‘ We do not need to do the scan because the CT scan has revealed all that the doctors needed to know ‘
I responded ‘ is that good or bad news ‘ ?
She responded ‘ Well it’s good news that you don’t have to do to the hospital on Saturday ! ‘
1. Why relay that message to me and not my dad unless they know it is really relaying a confirmation.
2. If they found nothing in the ct scan surely they would have done the second one to make sure
3. Should I tell my dad what I think the cancellation means or still leave it until we see the consultant next Friday ( at the moment he has not grasped that he could have cancer, so if I leave it I am giving him another week not to deal with this reality )
I hate this, I would rather the doctors just tell me and then in my own way I could relay it in his own home, rather than in a clinical room where we will then have to travel home.
It feels so deceitful knowing something and not relaying it……….
Don’t mean to derail the thread Cristo, but this is about withholding truth, for all the right reasons, but not knowing if it’s the right thing to do.
Part of me wants to protect my dad from hearing the words ‘ you have terminal cancer ‘ …….
Rita

I wouldn't jump to that conclusion, he may need a biopsy taken to determine if the tumor is malignant or not. But you would think they would move faster than 2 weeks.

 

[MatthewG]

I have a dilemma with the situation with my dad. My dad was due to have another scan on Saturday, the hospital rang me on my mobile this morning to cancel ( they usually ring my dad ). Her words ‘ We do not need to do the scan because the CT scan has revealed all that the doctors needed to know ‘
I responded ‘ is that good or bad news ‘ ?
She responded ‘ Well it’s good news that you don’t have to do to the hospital on Saturday ! ‘
1. Why relay that message to me and not my dad unless they know it is really relaying a confirmation.
2. If they found nothing in the ct scan surely they would have done the second one to make sure
3. Should I tell my dad what I think the cancellation means or still leave it until we see the consultant next Friday ( at the moment he has not grasped that he could have cancer, so if I leave it I am giving him another week not to deal with this reality )
I hate this, I would rather the doctors just tell me and then in my own way I could relay it in his own home, rather than in a clinical room where we will then have to travel home.
It feels so deceitful knowing something and not relaying it……….
Don’t mean to derail the thread Cristo, but this is about withholding truth, for all the right reasons, but not knowing if it’s the right thing to do.
Part of me wants to protect my dad from hearing the words ‘ you have terminal cancer ‘ …….
Rita

Do not know, Rita. Pray, trust, and abide in Christ whatever happens no matter what. Love to you and your Dad.

 

[Rita]

I wouldn't jump to that conclusion, he may need a biopsy taken to determine if the tumor is malignant or not. But you would think they would move faster than 2 weeks.

To get a scan within a week of getting a blood result with very poor liver function, to speaking to a doctor, then a consultant is really good.
Sadly my dads other health issues rule out any removal of any tumours, not sure about a biopsy as that can be done with a local aneaseptic.
So, would you leave saying anything until I was 100% sure ?

 

[APAK]

I have a dilemma with the situation with my dad. My dad was due to have another scan on Saturday, the hospital rang me on my mobile this morning to cancel ( they usually ring my dad ). Her words ‘ We do not need to do the scan because the CT scan has revealed all that the doctors needed to know ‘
I responded ‘ is that good or bad news ‘ ?
She responded ‘ Well it’s good news that you don’t have to do to the hospital on Saturday ! ‘
1. Why relay that message to me and not my dad unless they know it is really relaying a confirmation.
2. If they found nothing in the ct scan surely they would have done the second one to make sure
3. Should I tell my dad what I think the cancellation means or still leave it until we see the consultant next Friday ( at the moment he has not grasped that he could have cancer, so if I leave it I am giving him another week not to deal with this reality )
I hate this, I would rather the doctors just tell me and then in my own way I could relay it in his own home, rather than in a clinical room where we will then have to travel home.
It feels so deceitful knowing something and not relaying it……….
Don’t mean to derail the thread Cristo, but this is about withholding truth, for all the right reasons, but not knowing if it’s the right thing to do.
Part of me wants to protect my dad from hearing the words ‘ you have terminal cancer ‘ …….
Rita

Knowing me Rita I would question (drill is more like it) the person or now maybe another person that can answer a question, why they now decided to cancelled the second CT scan, and then what does it mean they have all the info already that they need(ed) off the first scan?. What does that really mean?.....and today you really cannot go and tell your Dad a less that half-baked answer anyway. He may ask you the same thing, what does it mean Rita this second CT is now not necessary?!

What would be troubling me more is getting to a complete answer to the phone call you got, and not really about telling my/your Dad just yet.

And you really do not know anything firm at this point .do not jump to conclusions...just saying....that's my take on it Rita. Hope it helps a bit.

xoxox to you....I hope for the best!

 

[APAK]

To get a scan within a week of getting a blood result with very poor liver function, to speaking to a doctor, then a consultant is really good.
Sadly my dads other health issues rule out any removal of any tumours, not sure about a biopsy as that can be done with a local aneaseptic.
So, would you leave saying anything until I was 100% sure ?

Contact whoever called you and get into their face if needed or feasible with professional courtesy of course...

 

[Dropship]

A tip- The internet is the best doctor in town because we can google our assorted ailments and end up knowing as much about them as the docs, and keep tabs on whether they're diagnosing and treating us right..

 

[Deborah_]

I have a dilemma with the situation with my dad. My dad was due to have another scan on Saturday, the hospital rang me on my mobile this morning to cancel ( they usually ring my dad ). Her words ‘ We do not need to do the scan because the CT scan has revealed all that the doctors needed to know ‘
I responded ‘ is that good or bad news ‘ ?
She responded ‘ Well it’s good news that you don’t have to do to the hospital on Saturday ! ‘
1. Why relay that message to me and not my dad unless they know it is really relaying a confirmation.
2. If they found nothing in the ct scan surely they would have done the second one to make sure
3. Should I tell my dad what I think the cancellation means or still leave it until we see the consultant next Friday ( at the moment he has not grasped that he could have cancer, so if I leave it I am giving him another week not to deal with this reality )
I hate this, I would rather the doctors just tell me and then in my own way I could relay it in his own home, rather than in a clinical room where we will then have to travel home.
It feels so deceitful knowing something and not relaying it……….
Don’t mean to derail the thread Cristo, but this is about withholding truth, for all the right reasons, but not knowing if it’s the right thing to do.
Part of me wants to protect my dad from hearing the words ‘ you have terminal cancer ‘ …….
Rita

The truth must be spoken in love. It's generally considered better to give bad news face-to-face than over the phone, even if that means a delay. (It doesn't follow that if they don't tell you, then it must be bad news - there could be other reasons). When I was working, we NEVER gave positive HIV results over the phone; we always asked people to "come in for more tests" (which wasn't a lie - they did need a lot more tests). Then, along with the "bad news", they had instant access to support from the clinic staff.
It may be that the CT scan showed something unexpected that explains your dad's symptoms.
These days, complex cases are often discussed in "multi-disciplinary meetings" to determine what course of treatment to recommend. Which takes a few days to organise. Then you get the diagnosis and the plan of action at the same time, instead of being left in limbo because you don't know what's going to happen.
Also bear in mind that the person who called you may have just been a clerk or a junior nurse, and not qualified to give you a full explanation.

 

[lforrest]

To get a scan within a week of getting a blood result with very poor liver function, to speaking to a doctor, then a consultant is really good.
Sadly my dads other health issues rule out any removal of any tumours, not sure about a biopsy as that can be done with a local aneaseptic.
So, would you leave saying anything until I was 100% sure ?

May as well tell your dad the hospital called and cancelled the MRI. If he is aware enough to ask follow-up questions tell him what you think, that they found something in the CT. If he isn't aware enough to ask, may as well wait for the doctor. That's how I would approach it.

 

[Rita]

May as well tell your dad the hospital called and cancelled the MRI. If he is aware enough to ask follow-up questions tell him what you think, that they found something in the CT. If he isn't aware enough to ask, may as well wait for the doctor. That's how I would approach it.

Oh I already told him that it was cancelled and what they said, but he hasn’t put two and two together as to what it might mean xx

 

[Rita]

Contact whoever called you and get into their face if needed or feasible with professional courtesy of course...

They were just from the scan unit - passing on info they had received x

 

[Rita]

Hi @Deborah_
The consultant already believes it’s a pancreatic tumour, the tests were to confirm what he thought it was and to have a plan to go forward with, yes she was just admin. My dad is 90, so not too many options xx
We have a consultant meeting on the 16th.

 

[Rita]

Thank you for your responses, I don’t want to derail this thread anymore. I will consider what you have all conveyed xxxxxx

 

[Cristo Rei]

I have a dilemma with the situation with my dad. My dad was due to have another scan on Saturday, the hospital rang me on my mobile this morning to cancel ( they usually ring my dad ). Her words ‘ We do not need to do the scan because the CT scan has revealed all that the doctors needed to know ‘
I responded ‘ is that good or bad news ‘ ?
She responded ‘ Well it’s good news that you don’t have to do to the hospital on Saturday ! ‘
1. Why relay that message to me and not my dad unless they know it is really relaying a confirmation.
2. If they found nothing in the ct scan surely they would have done the second one to make sure
3. Should I tell my dad what I think the cancellation means or still leave it until we see the consultant next Friday ( at the moment he has not grasped that he could have cancer, so if I leave it I am giving him another week not to deal with this reality )
I hate this, I would rather the doctors just tell me and then in my own way I could relay it in his own home, rather than in a clinical room where we will then have to travel home.
It feels so deceitful knowing something and not relaying it……….
Don’t mean to derail the thread Cristo, but this is about withholding truth, for all the right reasons, but not knowing if it’s the right thing to do.
Part of me wants to protect my dad from hearing the words ‘ you have terminal cancer ‘ …….
Rita

Oh Rita my heart pours out for you.

I feel like saying try not to read into it too much but how can you not, we love our family so it's human nature to be worried.

I had a similar situation. They basically kept us in the dark for a week while my mum was not good after surgery.

Wait for the results and pray.

If he does have terminal cancer I personally feel that it's their right to know so that they can mentally deal with it and prepare for the other side. But it's up to you Rita.

My thoughts and prayers are with you.
Please keep me posted

 

[Cristo Rei]

Thank you for your responses, I don’t want to derail this thread anymore. I will consider what you have all conveyed xxxxxx

Enough talk of derailing. LoL. Your more than welcome to talk about anything on my threads.

I can't sleep thinking about your situation now. In particular i keep playing out this hypothetical scenario. If I knew my parent had terminal cancer would I tell them. And after thinking about it deeply I think I would have no choice but to tell them.

My reasons are many but I couldn't think of any reasons not to tell them.
So I'm wondering what reason there is to withhold that information from our parent?

 

[Rita]

Enough talk of derailing. LoL. Your more than welcome to talk about anything on my threads.

I can't sleep thinking about your situation now. In particular i keep playing out this hypothetical scenario. If I knew my parent had terminal cancer would I tell them. And after thinking about it deeply I think I would have no choice but to tell them.

My reasons are many but I couldn't think of any reasons not to tell them.
So I'm wondering what reason there is to withhold that information from our parent?

It’s not really about withholding the truth, my dad will know one way or another in 10days time. The dilemma is more about telling him now because I believe they have a diagnosis.
I would never permanently keep him from knowing the truth as he has a right to know xx
Rita x

 

[PinSeeker]

The bible tells us that "Satan is the father of lies" Ok So then, is there ever an appropriate reason for us to lie?

No. "You shall not bear false witness" is not a suggestion, it is a commandment.

What about withholding the truth? Is that just as bad as a lie?

That's amounts to a lie, also.

Rahab lied, right

She did, but that God brought about good even through it should not in any way be construed as an endorsement by God of lying.

And the LORD said, ‘Who will entice Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead?’ And one said one thing, and another said another. Then a spirit came forward and stood before the LORD, saying, ‘I will entice him.’ And the LORD said to him, ‘By what means?’ And he said, ‘I will go out, and will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.’ And He said, ‘You are to entice him, and you shall succeed; go out and do so.’ (1 Kings 22:20-22)

I guess that lie was endorsed by God.

No, it wasn't, Lambano. God gave Satan permission to take from Job everything but his life, but that does not make God guilty of harming Job. If I, as a father, allow my son to go out so something stupid (which boys are very apt to do...), my purpose in that is not endorsement of whatever stupid thing he does but rather to allow him to suffer the consequences of having done that stupid thing.

God doesn't lie.

Right; of course not.

The lying spirit was sent, God did not himself lie.

Right.

Adam and Eve died the same day from God's perspective as a day is as a thousand years and thousand years as a day.

I'm not sure I understand you on this. I would say Adam and Eve died that very day, just as God said they would. They died spiritually, and so bequeathed that state into every human being born from that point on ~ dead in sin.

Hardening someone's heart is no lie.

Right, it is a giving over of the person to his own sinful passions.

Jesus made himself unrecognizable, this is no more a deception than when you close the curtains in your house for privacy.

Ah, I would say, rather not that Jesus made Himself unrecognizable, but that Mary was kept from recognizing Him for a time. This may be what you mean, or it may not be, in your view, the distinction that it is.

He did authorize the lying by the Spirit, correct?

God can use anything or anyone to accomplish His purposes. God Himself remains free of guilt.

Grace and peace to all.

 

[bbyrd009]

She did, but that God brought about good even through it should not in any way be construed as an endorsement by God of lying.

why not?

 

[Cristo Rei]

It’s not really about withholding the truth, my dad will know one way or another in 10days time. The dilemma is more about telling him now because I believe they have a diagnosis.
I would never permanently keep him from knowing the truth as he has a right to know xx
Rita x

Oh ok I get it now...
My thoughts and prayers are with you

 

[Cristo Rei]

No. "You shall not bear false witness" is not a suggestion, it is a commandment.


That's amounts to a lie, also.


She did, but that God brought about good even through it should not in any way be construed as an endorsement by God of lying.


No, it wasn't, Lambano. God gave Satan permission to take from Job everything but his life, but that does not make God guilty of harming Job. If I, as a father, allow my son to go out so something stupid (which boys are very apt to do...), my purpose in that is not endorsement of whatever stupid thing he does but rather to allow him to suffer the consequences of having done that stupid thing.


Right; of course not.


Right.


I'm not sure I understand you on this. I would say Adam and Eve died that very day, just as God said they would. They died spiritually, and so bequeathed that state into every human being born from that point on ~ dead in sin.


Right, it is a giving over of the person to his own sinful passions.


Ah, I would say, rather not that Jesus made Himself unrecognizable, but that Mary was kept from recognizing Him for a time. This may be what you mean, or it may not be, in your view, the distinction that it is.


God can use anything or anyone to accomplish His purposes. God Himself remains free of guilt.

Grace and peace to all.

Your just scratching the surface.
Dig deeper and you will see that there are lies that have good intentions.
You haven't given that a thought at all.
People have given good examples if you care to read them