Is Jesus 100% man and 100% God

[Wrangler]

A propositional statement of truth. Why not that?

Much love!

I don't understand what you are asking.

 

[Charlie24]

A poetic way to say Jesus is a prophet. This is what prophets do, speak the word of God but while they are in a human body. It means Jesus is not God but God put his words into the mouth of one of the people of Israel - just like God said in Acts he'd do for his servant Jesus.


“The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your fellow Israelites. You must listen to him. 16 For this is what you yourselves requested of the Lord your God when you were assembled at Mount Sinai.[a] You said, ‘Don’t let us hear the voice of the Lord our God anymore or see this blazing fire, for we will die.’

17 “Then the Lord said to me, ‘What they have said is right. 18 I will raise up a prophet like you from among their fellow Israelites. I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell the people everything I command him.
Deuteronomy 18:15-18

Acts 3:13-15
13 For it is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob—the God of all our ancestors—who has brought glory to his servant Jesus ... God raised him from the dead

26 When God raised up his servant, Jesus, he sent him first to you people of Israel, to bless you by turning each of you back from your sinful ways.”
Acts 3:26

When will you realize that Christ was all these things in His HUMANITY, while being Deity at the same time, which He cast aside and made Himself of no reputation?

He could cast off His power as God, and leave it behind, which He did, but not the fact He is God. He could not cast that away, but all other acknowledgement of Him being God was freely laid aside at His will.

 

[Wrangler]

When will you realize that Christ was all these things in His HUMANITY, while being Deity at the same time, which He cast aside and made Himself of no reputation?

As soon as you produce a verse that explicitly says something like The nature of God is a trinity - consisting of the Father, Son & Holy Spirit who are co-equal, co-substantial and co-eternal - and if you do not believe this, you cannot be saved but are damned to hell forever.

 

[Charlie24]

As soon as you produce a verse that explicitly says something like The nature of God is a trinity - consisting of the Father, Son & Holy Spirit who are co-equal, co-substantial and co-eternal - and if you do not believe this, you cannot be saved but are damned to hell forever.

OK, Thomas! LOL

 

[Charlie24]

OK, Thomas! LOL

Just so we understand one another, I am not the one condemning you to hell for not believing Christ is God.

I think you know that from our past conversations.

 

[Wrangler]

Just so we understand one another, I am not the one condemning you to hell for not believing Christ is God.

I think you know that from our past conversations.

Did you read my thread on Juxtaposition of God and Jesus: Best Proof Jesus is NOT God? If you are not condemning people or claiming people will be able to be saved even if they do not believe in the inherently contradictory doctrine that is the trinity, then why are you pushing it so hard (especially in light of the Shema, 1C, 'For us there is one God, the Father '1 COR 8:6 and Jesus saying he has a God who is the only true God?

 

[Charlie24]

Did you read my thread on Juxtaposition of God and Jesus: Best Proof Jesus is NOT God? If you are not condemning people or claiming people will be able to be saved even if they do not believe in the inherently contradictory doctrine that is the trinity, then why are you pushing it so hard (especially in light of the Shema, 1C, 'For us there is one God, the Father '1 COR 8:6 and Jesus saying he has a God who is the only true God?

I want you to know in this life that the One who created you and loved you, is the same One who died for you proving that love.

I want you to know that now, I want you to have the relationship I have with Him.

You are not condemned by not understanding all of this, but you are missing out on the kind of relationship you could have, that's all!

 

[Wrangler]

I want you to know in this life that the One who created you and loved you, is the same One who died for you proving that love.

Not an answer to my question.

I want you to know that what you wrote is illogical. We know Jesus is not God because he died and God is eternal. It is a demonstrable fact. (I trust you agree and admit that Scripture says that Jesus died).

I want you to know that the theological importance of Jesus NOT being God cannot be overstated for death is the price of our sin and if he did not fully and completely die - in every way, with respect to all his natures - then we are not saved. That it has no theological significance for God to appear in the form of a man and appear to die - but not die in some way.

I want you to know the Bible states a condition for salvation that includes denying Jesus is God. Roman 10:9 If you openly declare that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. Who raised Jesus from the dead, which is the condition upon which your salvation depends? God, in his unitarian nature.

 

[Charlie24]

Not an answer to my question.

I want you to know that what you wrote is illogical. We know Jesus is not God because he died and God is eternal. It is a demonstrable fact. (I trust you agree and admit that Scripture says that Jesus died).

I want you to know that the theological importance of Jesus NOT being God cannot be overstated for death is the price of our sin and if he did not fully and completely die - in every way, with respect to all his natures - then we are not saved. That it has no theological significance for God to appear in the form of a man and appear to die - but not die in some way.

I want you to know the Bible states a condition for salvation that includes denying Jesus is God. Roman 10:9 If you openly declare that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. Who raised Jesus from the dead, which is the condition upon which your salvation depends? God, in his unitarian nature.

No, I disagree with my friends! Confessing He is Lord is speaking of what Christ did in His humanity. He is Saviour and High Priest, and Mediator as a man, who happens to be God.

The Scripture does not state "you must believe Jesus is God" It says "you must believe He is the Saviour" the One who died on Calvary's Cross to redeem you from your sins.

If what I say is illogical to you, then to you it is illogical! Nothing I can do about that, nor care to do. I have shown from Scripture what I believe and why. I rest on that declaration!

So we disagree! But we are both saved by faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. The rest to be resolved by Him.

 

[Wrangler]

He is Saviour and High Priest, and Mediator as a man, who happens to be God.

Scripture does not say that. It says Jesus is our only mediator to God.

I guess you did not read the thread on juxtapositions. Subjects and objects of sentences are not equal.

 

[Charlie24]

Scripture does not say that. It says Jesus is our only mediator to God.

I guess you did not read the thread on juxtapositions. Subjects and objects of sentences are not equal.

You would argue with a fence post, lol.

Just to show you what I was talking about in my previous post, about the Man Jesus Christ, which you need to read again, look at this!

1 Tim. 2:5
"For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;"

Wrangler, I want to be friends with you, but sometimes it just has to be said, You don't know what you are talking about!

I know that's hard but it's the truth. I'm trying to show you but you won't listen!

 

[Wrangler]

You would argue with a fence post, lol.

Just to show you what I was talking about in my previous post, about the Man Jesus Christ, which you need to read again, look at this!

1 Tim. 2:5
"For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;"

Wrangler, I want to be friends with you, but sometimes it just has to be said, You don't know what you are talking about!

I know that's hard but it's the truth. I'm trying to show you but you won't listen!

How do you read 1 Tim. 2:5, which specifically says Jesus is a man, to support that Jesus is God? NOTE: The verse does not say Jesus is God. Try reading other translations also. CEV
There is only one God,
and Christ Jesus
is the only one
who can bring us
to God.
Jesus was truly human,
and he gave himself
to rescue all of us.

Keep in mind how the Epistle of Timothy starts, by recognizing only the Father is God. May God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord give you grace, mercy, and peace. 1 & 2 Timothy 1:2. So, 2:5 has to be read in that context.

 

[Wrangler]

Wrangler, I want to be friends with you,

Great! Friend, I would greatly appreciate an answer to my question.

If you are not condemning people or claiming people will be able to be saved even if they do not believe in the inherently contradictory doctrine that is the trinity, then why are you pushing it so hard (especially in light of the Shema, 1C, 'For us there is one God, the Father '1 COR 8:6 and Jesus saying he has a God who is the only true God?

 

[Charlie24]

How do you read 1 Tim. 2:5, which specifically says Jesus is a man, to support that Jesus is God? NOTE: The verse does not say Jesus is God. Try reading other translations also. CEV
There is only one God,
and Christ Jesus
is the only one
who can bring us
to God.
Jesus was truly human,
and he gave himself
to rescue all of us.

Keep in mind how the Epistle of Timothy starts, by recognizing only the Father is God. May God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord give you grace, mercy, and peace. 1 & 2 Timothy 1:2. So, 2:5 has to be read in that context.

I don't read other translations, I use only the KJV, and go to the Greek with key words to understand. Going to other translations will catch up with you in the end, it will lie to you!

Let's take this in context. In 1Tim. 2:5 Paul is not concerned with our issue. He is concerned in proper faith in Christ, as he is always concerned with our faith throughout his letters.

1 Tim. 2 is Paul teaching the fundamentals of a good soldier of Christ. Putting first things first.

In vs. 5 he speaks of "striving for masteries." This is an analogy that Paul uses quite often in his letters. He refers to a contest like the Olympics where the athlete is striving for victory, to take the crown, or the prize as he sometimes illustrates.

He states "yet he is not crowned, except he strive lawfully." Here is first things first, in order to take the crown of the event, it must be done in order. The athlete must follow the rules of the contest.

Then in vs. 6 he gives the illustration of a husbandman who labors in the field, the seed must be sowed in order to be partaker of the fruits. First things first, in order to complete the desired goal.

When we apply this to our faith in being the good soldier for Christ, our faith must be first, and in order, for us to reach the desired goal of eternal life, and compete in the competition or husbandmanship to reach that goal.

Then in vs. 7 he says, "consider what I say, and the Lord give you understanding in all things." He is asking the Lord for you to understand this, what is saying.

Then in vs. 8 he reminds us of his Gospel, that Jesus Christ is the seed of David (remember Paul is addressing the Hebrews/the Jews) and that Christ was raised from the dead.

Paul is telling them and us that our faith must be in order and in the proper place for us to compete in this competition against the powers of Darkness, to reach the finish line as a good soldier of Christ.

 

[Charlie24]

Great! Friend, I would greatly appreciate an answer to my question.

And my Good Friend! I have shown you why Christ refers to the Father as the One True God.

In His humanity He left behind every detail of being God. To the point of it not even mentioned in Scripture.

But John and Paul reveal it to us through the creation. But yet, they don't even straight out say Christ is God.

This is why not knowing or not believing He is God through a hidden measure in not detrimental to your salvation.

I believe the Lord designed it this way. It's not Jesus as God that's the emphsis, it's the Man, Jesus the Saviour that's at the forefront.

I believe the rest will be explained, along with many other things we don't understand.

 

[Taken]

LOL! "the Word became flesh" what does that mean?

He was with the Father before the foundation of the world.

He was in the form of God/ Spirit.

He conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of a virgin.

And you say He did not "become" man!

Christ had to become man in order to pay the sin debt for man. Human blood for the sins of man, taking our place!

He was 100% man whether you accept that or not!

The mystery is WHAT “IS”, and WHAT man can see “AS”.
If Jesus HAD “human blood”, His offering of His Blood Forgiveness of SIN would be MOOT. “Human blood” is NOT PURE. NOT acceptable for an OFFERING for mans Transgression of SIN.

Men Jesus chose to follow Him, Hear Him, Learn from Him and YET....
Why did these SAME men NEED to be “TOLD” Jesus “IS” the Christ?
What IS the CHRIST?

Men historically HAD BODILY DIED, their living soul Departed, Then God returned their Living soul to the DEAD BODY, and their Body RESUMED Living.

THE CHRIST, IS the SPIRIT of God.
THE CHRIST, IS the POWER of God.

The POWER of God IS the SUPREME POWER above all OTHER existing POWERS.

The POWER of God “IS” Gods “GLORY”,
WHICH God “GIVES” to No Other.

Isa 42:
[8] I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

When men were TOLD, Jesus IS the Christ, they were BEING TOLD, Jesus IS God.

What human man can SEE Gods POWER? No human man Gods POWER ...... and LIVE.

WHY?

Heb 12:
[29] For our God is a consuming fire.

The MYSTERY for mankind, is Knowing, Believing, Trusting, Committing BY Heartful Vow of ManKINDS own “WORD” To God.....
The man DOES BELIEVE, “without SEEING”.
Because “SEEING”, means to be instantly CONSUMED, DEAD...
And the DEAD know nothing, nor can confess Belief of anything.

Human men, GET “glimpses”, “previews”, of Gods Power that ManKINDS EYES CAN SEE.
It’s call “REFLECTION”....rather than “DIRECT”.
For a human man to “DIRECTLY” SEE God, He would be CONSUMED.
However a human man CAN “SEE” the Reflection of Gods POWER, and Live.

No man ... SAW Christ, who IS the Power of God.
All men ... CAN SEE, the Reflection of Gods POWER.
THE MYSTERY IS:
Does a man BELIEVE what they DO SEE IS FROM GOD...
** Or some Mathematical equation, Or some scientific Phenomena, Or some mans Carnal minded Philosophical rendering...

Don’t ya Love Gods play on words?
The Son, The Sun...!
Why do human men NOT attempt to send a ROCKET TO THE SUN?
A consuming FIRE?
Why do human men ATTEMPT (maybe have) sent ROCKETS with men, TO the Moon, that is ABSOLUTELY COMPLETE DARKNESS?
The Moon ONLY “Appears” as having LIGHT....WHEN the Light of the SUN shine UPON the moon.......WE SEE the REFLECTION of Gods SUNLIGHT upon the DARK MOON.

It’s a sneak peek, preview of sorts.....of HOW Gods LIGHT shining UPON a man in Darkness, (SIN), WITH Gods power upon that man, so also that man shines IN LIGHT.

OT men were parallel to the signs of the moon....Gods Light Shinning upon them....then not...then again...then not...Called WITH...the WITHOUT Gods Light. They obeyed, then disobeyed, then obeyed, then disobeyed.....ACCORDING to Mosaic Law.

Jesus is SENT, Revealed HE IS the Christ, HE IS the Power of God, HE OFFERS all men.........A NEW TESTAMENT....A BETTER TESTAMENT..
(Heb 7:22)

God WILL, NOT GIVE MANKIND His GLORY......YET, God WILL SEND His GLORY to “not ONLY be WITH YOU”....BUT Rather, “BE IN YOU”....
For all the days or your remaining physical bodily life, ON Earth..!!!
And for all the days of your ETERNAL LIFE, Gods Power WILL BE...WITH you, and you WITH Him.

A glorious offering....and any man who accepts His Offering...ACCORDING TO, Gods Order and Way...
Is in short, reduced to an acronym...OSAS.

In short, is called Christ “IN” you and you “IN” Christ.
The Few, The Proud, The Marines.... oops.
The Few, The Sanctified, The sons of God.

 

[Charlie24]

The mystery is WHAT “IS”, and WHAT man can see “AS”.
If Jesus HAD “human blood”, His offering of His Blood Forgiveness of SIN would be MOOT. “Human blood” is NOT PURE. NOT acceptable for an OFFERING for mans Transgression of SIN.

Men Jesus chose to follow Him, Hear Him, Learn from Him and YET....
Why did these SAME men NEED to be “TOLD” Jesus “IS” the Christ?
What IS the CHRIST?

Men historically HAD BODILY DIED, their living soul Departed, Then God returned their Living soul to the DEAD BODY, and their Body RESUMED Living.

THE CHRIST, IS the SPIRIT of God.
THE CHRIST, IS the POWER of God.

The POWER of God IS the SUPREME POWER above all OTHER existing POWERS.

The POWER of God “IS” Gods “GLORY”,
WHICH God “GIVES” to No Other.

Isa 42:
[8] I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

When men were TOLD, Jesus IS the Christ, they were BEING TOLD, Jesus IS God.

What human man can SEE Gods POWER? No human man Gods POWER ...... and LIVE.

WHY?

Heb 12:
[29] For our God is a consuming fire.

The MYSTERY for mankind, is Knowing, Believing, Trusting, Committing BY Heartful Vow of ManKINDS own “WORD” To God.....
The man DOES BELIEVE, “without SEEING”.
Because “SEEING”, means to be instantly CONSUMED, DEAD...
And the DEAD know nothing, nor can confess Belief of anything.

Human men, GET “glimpses”, “previews”, of Gods Power that ManKINDS EYES CAN SEE.
It’s call “REFLECTION”....rather than “DIRECT”.
For a human man to “DIRECTLY” SEE God, He would be CONSUMED.
However a human man CAN “SEE” the Reflection of Gods POWER, and Live.

No man ... SAW Christ, who IS the Power of God.
All men ... CAN SEE, the Reflection of Gods POWER.
THE MYSTERY IS:
Does a man BELIEVE what they DO SEE IS FROM GOD...
** Or some Mathematical equation, Or some scientific Phenomena, Or some mans Carnal minded Philosophical rendering...

Don’t ya Love Gods play on words?
The Son, The Sun...!
Why do human men NOT attempt to send a ROCKET TO THE SUN?
A consuming FIRE?
Why do human men ATTEMPT (maybe have) sent ROCKETS with men, TO the Moon, that is ABSOLUTELY COMPLETE DARKNESS?
The Moon ONLY “Appears” as having LIGHT....WHEN the Light of the SUN shine UPON the moon.......WE SEE the REFLECTION of Gods SUNLIGHT upon the DARK MOON.

It’s a sneak peek, preview of sorts.....of HOW Gods LIGHT shining UPON a man in Darkness, (SIN), WITH Gods power upon that man, so also that man shines IN LIGHT.

OT men were parallel to the signs of the moon....Gods Light Shinning upon them....then not...then again...then not...Called WITH...the WITHOUT Gods Light. They obeyed, then disobeyed, then obeyed, then disobeyed.....ACCORDING to Mosaic Law.

Jesus is SENT, Revealed HE IS the Christ, HE IS the Power of God, HE OFFERS all men.........A NEW TESTAMENT....A BETTER TESTAMENT..
(Heb 7:22)

God WILL, NOT GIVE MANKIND His GLORY......YET, God WILL SEND His GLORY to “not ONLY be WITH YOU”....BUT Rather, “BE IN YOU”....
For all the days or your remaining physical bodily life, ON Earth..!!!
And for all the days of your ETERNAL LIFE, Gods Power WILL BE...WITH you, and you WITH Him.

A glorious offering....and any man who accepts His Offering...ACCORDING TO, Gods Order and Way...
Is in short, reduced to an acronym...OSAS.

In short, is called Christ “IN” you and you “IN” Christ.
The Few, The Proud, The Marines.... oops.
The Few, The Sanctified, The sons of God.

The blood of Christ was not contaminated by the dna of man. He was conceived by the Spirit, and the womb of Mary was nothing more than a covering. How the Holy Spirit did this is the mystery.

I have always thought of His blood being as pure as that of Adam. It was perfection at its height, and I expect no less in the blood of Christ.

 

[Taken]

The blood of Christ was not contaminated by the dna of man. He was conceived by the Spirit, and the womb of Mary was nothing more than a covering.

Mary’s virgin womb was chosen to serve Gods purpose.
Mary was chosen, BECAUSE of (a Revealed LIST of Particular circumstances)...the Same as OTHER human’s were chosen By God, for their Particular circumstances, as Revealed in Scripture, To Serve Gods Purpose.

How the Holy Spirit did this is the mystery.

Everything God DOES IS “mysterious”, a “mystery” to mankind...
UNTIL the How and Why is revealed.
The How and Why of “Mary being chosen”...WAS revealed.
No more a mystery.

I have always thought of His blood being as pure as that of Adam. It was perfection at its height, and I expect no less in the blood of Christ.

I always wondered, then read and learned and Believe The Word of God. Jesus’ BODY, Jesus’ BLOOD...had NOTHING to do WITH mankind.

Heb 10:
[5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

WHO saith?
WHO speaks the Word of God, but the Word of God Himself?
WHO is “thou”, but God Himself?
WHO did God purpose “His WILL IN”.....but God Himself?

Eph 1:
[9] Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

John 1:
[13] Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

READ AGAIN...ONE mans TEACHING....

John 1:
[13] Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

READ AGAIN...ANOTHER mans TEACHING....

John 1:
[13] Which were born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, or of the will of man, but of God.

Correct...
Jesus’ FLESH BODY and BLOOD, had nothing what so ever to do with ManKINDS WILL or BLOOD.

God SENT Himself to Earth, in the manner and fashion according to His Will.
God Does not Change.
God DID NOT BECOME His own Creation!

God REVEALED Himself in the LIKENESS AS His Creation, to TEACH His Creation HOW TO BECOME in Gods LIKENESS.

And the BOTTOM LINE IS...the ONLY WAY for a man to BECOME IN Gods LIKENESS...IS FOR Gods POWER to ENTER INTO A MAN...ie CALLED Christ “IN” that man...that man called “IN” Christ.

Mystery revealed....
Omnipresent, Omnipotent, Omniscient....
Holy, Holy, Holy...the Lord God Almighty.

 

[RLT63]

I am going to put you down as a no. That you do not know of any other concept in the history of mankind that was able to use the math and science that God created to ever speak about anything being 100% and also 100% of something else.

I can be 100% Mexican and get citizenship in the United States be 100% American. Jesus' citizenship made him 100% man but he didn't give up his deity.

 

[Charlie24]

Mary’s virgin womb was chosen to serve Gods purpose.
Mary was chosen, BECAUSE of (a Revealed LIST of Particular circumstances)...the Same as OTHER human’s were chosen By God, for their Particular circumstances, as Revealed in Scripture, To Serve Gods Purpose.



Everything God DOES IS “mysterious”, a “mystery” to mankind...
UNTIL the How and Why is revealed.
The How and Why of “Mary being chosen”...WAS revealed.
No more a mystery.



I always wondered, then read and learned and Believe The Word of God. Jesus’ BODY, Jesus’ BLOOD...had NOTHING to do WITH mankind.

Heb 10:
[5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

WHO saith?
WHO speaks the Word of God, but the Word of God Himself?
WHO is “thou”, but God Himself?
WHO did God purpose “His WILL IN”.....but God Himself?

Eph 1:
[9] Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

John 1:
[13] Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

READ AGAIN...ONE mans TEACHING....

John 1:
[13] Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

READ AGAIN...ANOTHER mans TEACHING....

John 1:
[13] Which were born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, or of the will of man, but of God.

Correct...
Jesus’ FLESH BODY and BLOOD, had nothing what so ever to do with ManKINDS WILL or BLOOD.

God SENT Himself to Earth, in the manner and fashion according to His Will.
God Does not Change.
God DID NOT BECOME His own Creation!

God REVEALED Himself in the LIKENESS AS His Creation, to TEACH His Creation HOW TO BECOME in Gods LIKENESS.

And the BOTTOM LINE IS...the ONLY WAY for a man to BECOME IN Gods LIKENESS...IS FOR Gods POWER to ENTER INTO A MAN...ie CALLED Christ “IN” that man...that man called “IN” Christ.

Mystery revealed....
Omnipresent, Omnipotent, Omniscient....
Holy, Holy, Holy...the Lord God Almighty.

I'm sorry, Taken, but I have to disagree! His body and His blood had everything to do with mankind.

That's proven in the Lord's Supper.

His body was offered up as a sacrifice for mankind.

His blood was shed for the forgiveness of our sins.

Everything that He did effected mankind.