Is Jesus son of God?

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DrBubbaLove

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(Mazhar;40788)
So, u mean that when God became jesus, then He was God and human being at the same time? means playing two roles simultaneously?
No, looking at those pictures, we are saying Father, Son and Holy Ghost have always existed, from before creation, before God made anything at all, there was Father, Son and Spirit. All Three together. In the beginning, before any thing was made - all Three exists as pure Spirits - no body.The Person Jesus became Man, but the same Person Jesus was with God in the beginning. When Jesus became a Man, then Jesus (not God) had two natures, a human nature and a Divine Nature (God). In the pictures above the corner which is Jesus became Man. But please note that is for picturing it only, the understanding of the Trinity is not proper if we think of each Person being a part, a piece (or corner) of God. Each Person is God.
 

Mazhar

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No, looking at those pictures, we are saying Father, Son and Holy Ghost have always existed, from before creation, before God made anything at all, there was Father, Son and Spirit. All Three together. In the beginning, before any thing was made - all Three exists as pure Spirits - no body.The Person Jesus became Man, but the same Person Jesus was with God in the beginning. When Jesus became a Man, then Jesus (not God) had two natures, a human nature and a Divine Nature (God). In the pictures above the corner which is Jesus became Man. But please note that is for picturing it only, the understanding of the Trinity is not proper if we think of each Person being a part, a piece (or corner) of God. Each Person is God.
so u r saying that, jesus and god was first there then jesus became man and before becoming human, he was god, after becoming human, he became god and human being? right?
 

Jon-Marc

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And, yet, he is also God. See, it is not as simple as you would have it to be.
rolleyes.gif
Peace
There is nothing simple about God. He is a triune God, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. God can be in more than place at a time. God is the Father, He is the Son, and He is the Holy Spirit, and yet the three are ONE. Easy to say and impossible to comprehend with our finite minds such an infinite God. It becomes so much easier when we quit trying to explain God and just simply trust Him with the innocence of a child. That is what Jesus meant when he said that we must become as a little child. He didn't mean we must actually BECOME a child again since that is impossible--for us at least. Nothing is impossible with God. It simply means to trust like a child--without questioning, doubting, or trying to explain away what we don't understand. It's not logical or possible according to our limited understanding--so therefore it can't be real. God is not limited to or by our understanding.
 

sevver

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Do you think that the pancakes attempt to figure US out? Why would we even think of trying to figure out how something can be with the God who created it all. I am content to just hope that I can be like Jesus, and that I can continue to grow towards that end.Does it really matter? Do the how's, why's, what-if's, really matter at all? I don't think so, I have faith. And is it really so wrong? Is it wrong to believe that the words of the Bible are true, when there is nothing to tell me otherwise. All of the sciences have failed to prove it wrong, everything that has been discovered has only proven it to be a good piece of evidence. If all of the Bible is trustworthy, and it tells in the Bible that God is triune, then I accept it. This is something that goes back thousands of years. Greater men than us have attacked Christianity. It has always been attacked, it is ever scrutinized, there are always people looking for loopholes and attempting to tear down my faith. Yet it still stands, it is still spreading, not because it is a crutch, but because it is true. Stop worrying about trying to trip up the topic through wordplay, rather than us trying to explain God to you, how about you trying to explain away God to us. I cannot explain God, and I don't even pretend to. God Bless you, I really hope that you find it in you to just accept what is acceptable. I cannot imagine the leap of faith it would take from believing Jesus was a Prophet and waiting for your Savior, to accepting him as your Savior, and realizing you were wrong, and those around you were wrong, and are still. I pray that you come to some peace on this topic.
 

Mazhar

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To the last two posters:I agree with both that we can not understand God fully and completely, no one can do that and that we do not have to ask questions as far as God is concerned, we should have faith. But, we can understand the basics of God and adhere to it. We all know and agree to the basics i.e. God is immortal, He does not eat, does not get tired, does not sleep and etc. These are the basics, and these cannot change.Let me ask you:Do you beleive that God is immortal? yesDo you beleive that God became human being? yesNow, if you certainly beleive that God became human being then: - you have to beleive that God is mortal, or - that human being is not God.
 

sevver

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What is wrong with believing that God can be whatever he wishes? God is not mortal. But God made us, would it be out of the question for God to be more than one thing? I feel that he could be everything if he wished, either singly or all at once. Was god a burning bush? God is both everywhere and everything, and he is to us what we make him. If you feel that God is limited, then you will get limited results. But if you believe that God is the All Powerful, you can expect absolutely anything from him. Nothing is impossible. Muslim, and Christian believe in the same God, but that is really not what we are talking about here. We are talking about Jesus aren't we?You can choose to believe what you have been taught, or you can begin looking externally fro proof. There are historians from the time that wrote of Jesus and his claims who were not Christian. I don't see this as a hoax, if it were a hoax, I would imagine that it would have been squashed with proof immediately. I think that what you need to do, is to try to disprove Jesus' claims. That seems to be where you are struggling. What was Jesus to you? We can start there.
 

Mazhar

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There is no problem in thinking that God can be everything but it is right if God wants. God does what He wants, no one can stop Him from doing anything. Similarly, God was human being and God at the same time, which is impossible. God created human beings, then how can one be creator and created at the same time? It is illogical and basics of God can not be changed. If basics are changed then he ceases to be God.
 

Jon-Marc

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There is no problem in thinking that God can be everything but it is right if God wants. God does what He wants, no one can stop Him from doing anything. Similarly, God was human being and God at the same time, which is impossible. God created human beings, then how can one be creator and created at the same time? It is illogical and basics of God can not be changed. If basics are changed then he ceases to be God.
God is not created. Jesus was not created. He was given to a sinful world to die for our sins, but being God He is from everlasting to everlasting. He was "God in the flesh" when He was here on earth. Jesus Christ was there at the creation: "And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things BY Jesus Christ." Capitals added for emphasis.
 

sevver

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(Mazhar;41003)
There is no problem in thinking that God can be everything but it is right if God wants. God does what He wants, no one can stop Him from doing anything. Similarly, God was human being and God at the same time, which is impossible. God created human beings, then how can one be creator and created at the same time? It is illogical and basics of God can not be changed. If basics are changed then he ceases to be God.
You have your God, in your box, and I have my God. I don't put any constraints on him, nor try to define him. I am through here, the only reason you are here is to bring dissension. I don't mind logical arguments, but I cannot assign logic to someone who designed everything, who is beyond comprehension. God is capable of being both God and Human, I honestly cannot see why he couldn't be. What do you make of the Holy Spirit?
 

Mazhar

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Where in the bible, jesus claimed divinity?Is there any statement in the bible, in which jesus himself says that "He is God" or where is says "worship me".Does bible says clearly about trinity?
 

Mazhar

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Brother thunder, but first confirm whether jesus is God or not? what is your proof that jesus is God?
 

Abdul Dawood

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Hallo Mazhar!I am glad that you are here looking for answers. I thought I could provide you with a couple verses and see what you think of them.In the book of John, chapter 10, starting at verse 25 it says:25Jesus answered, "I did tell you, but you do not believe. The miracles I do in my Father's name speak for me, 26but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. 29My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. 30I and the Father are one."At first glance, verse 30 ' I and the Father are one. ' does not seem to be a claim of divinity until we see the response of the Jews in the following verses:31Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, 32but Jesus said to them, "I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?" 33"We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God." Following this, Jesus does not refute them or correct them about him not being God. Also, if he was merely claiming that he was in fellowship with God only, the Jews would not have wanted to stone him. Anyways, I hope that helps a bit. Please post again if you would like a couple more scriptures.Toodles!
 

Mazhar

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(Called 2 Conquer;41503)
Allah, by direct opposition, is distant, incomunicative, and demanding.
Allah communicated prophets to earth like jesus, moses, muhammad, etc peace be upon them all. But prophet muhammad pbuh is the last and final and he is for the whole human kind. And all the prophets before muhammad were for particular group of people or nation. Allah communicated all His signs to human kind in th form of this universe, in the form of every living thing in this universe. Allah communicated the last and final revelation to muahmmad pbuh, the Quran.Allah has all the right to demand from us what ever He wants. And He is giving us heaven with His grace.(Called 2 Conquer;41503)
After reading the Qur`an I see where muslim's are required to go through multiple prayer sessions at specific times a day merely beseeching Allah by listing his attributes.
what do you meant by merely? I mean what were you trying to say brother?(Called 2 Conquer;41503)
God requires a tithe of ten percent from all people, rich or poor, weak or strong, young or old. God also laid down a way to give above the tithes by allowing a offering which is seperate and above the tithe.
I do not know what are you talking about? We give charity (Zakaat) to poor. And this zakaat is obligatory on a muslim @ 2.5% of his wealth every lunar year and he must has an amount of wealth to give this zakaat. Poor man is not obligatory to zakaat. You have some kind of misconception.(Called 2 Conquer;41503)
Allah teaches Jesus was a prophet no greater than Muhammad. The Christian God, the triune God, Acknowledges Jesus is God. Those are just a few differences between our two God's. While we as Christians are supposed to try to bring muslims into the faith but to be brutally honest, trying to convince a muslim we worship the same God is a disservice to our Lord and to those we are planting the seeds of truth in.God bless
No doubt Muhammad pbuh is the greatest messenger of them all. he is for the whole of human kind, jesus was only for a nation. And by the way there is no concept of trinity in bible. Christian brothers only have misinterpreted the bible.Peace be on you.
 

Mazhar

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(Abdul Dawood;41473)
Hallo Mazhar!At first glance, verse 30 ' I and the Father are one. ' does not seem to be a claim of divinity until we see the response of the Jews in the following verses:31Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, 32but Jesus said to them, "I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?" 33"We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God." Following this, Jesus does not refute them or correct them about him not being God. Also, if he was merely claiming that he was in fellowship with God only, the Jews would not have wanted to stone him.
Dear brother,you need to analyze it honestly within the context of the bible.To get at the context of 10:30, we have to begin from verse 23 which reads:23. "And Jesus (pbuh) walked in the temple in Solomon’s porch."John, or whoever he was, who wrote this story, does not tell us the reason for Jesus (pbuh) tempting the devil by walking alone in the lion’s den. Now, we do not expect the Jews to miss a golden opportunity to get even with Jesus (pbuh). Perhaps, he was emboldened by the manner in which he had literally whipped the Jews single-handed in the temple, and upset the tables of the money-changers at the beginning of his ministry (John 2:15).24. "Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly."They surrounded him, they began accusing him and provoking him; saying that he had not put forth his claim plainly enough, clearly enough. That he was talking ambiguously. But Jesus (pbuh) could not afford to provoke them any further, there were too many of them.25. Jesus (pbuh) answered them, ‘I told ye, and you believed not: the works that I do in my Father’s name, they bear witness of me’.26. But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.’Jesus (pbuh) refutes the false charge of his enemies that he was ambiguous. He says that he did tell them clearly enough, yet they would not listen to him,He further justifies by saying,27. "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:28. And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man PLUCK THEM OUT OF MY HAND.29. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to PLUCK THEM OUT OF MY FATHER’S HAND."How can anyone be so blind as not to see the exactness of the ending of the last two verses? He is telling the Jews and recording for posterity, the real unity or relationship between the Father and the son.30. "I and my Father are one."This is the purpose of the "Father" AND the "son" AND the "Holy Ghost" AND of every man AND every woman of faith. The same John explains:"That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us …." (John 17:21)"I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one …." (John 17:23)If Jesus is "ONE" with God, and if that "ONENESS" makes him God, then the traitor Judas, and the doubting Thomas, and the satanic Peter, plus the other nine who deserted him when he was most in need are God(s), because the same ONENESS which he claimed with God in John 10:30, now he claims for all "who forsook him and fled" (Mark 14:50) – all "ye of little faith" (Matthew 8:26) – ALL "O faithless and perverse generation" (Luke 9:41The expression "I and my Father are one," was very innocent, meaning nothing more than a common purpose with God. But the Jews were looking for trouble and any excuse would do, therefore:31. "The Jews took up stones again to stone him.32. Jesus answered them, "Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?"33. The Jews answered him, saying, ‘For a good word we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.’"In verse 24 above the Jews falsely alleged that Jesus was talking ambiguously. When that charge was ably refuted, they then accused him of blasphemy which. So they say that Jesus is claiming to be God – "I and my Father are one". 34. "Jesus answered them, ‘Is it not written in your law, I SAID, YE ARE GODS?35. If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;36. Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?’"
 

Thunder1

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Mazhar:No doubt Muhammad pbuh is the greatest messenger of them all. he is for the whole of human kind, jesus was only for a nation. And by the way there is no concept of trinity in bible. Christian brothers only have misinterpreted the bible.Thunder1: Muhammed is NOT the greatest messenger of all. He was just a man. Devil used Him. Jesus is for all humankind,Saviour from hell, son of God. Muslims have tried to misinterepted the bible,but they failed and the truth is still there as it is.Love you Mazhar, but not what you believe.Thunder1
 

Mazhar

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(Called 2 Conquer;41675)
As I have noted I have read the Qur`an ( in english as I can not read the original text) and one thing I noted above everything else is that Muhammed took the bible and inverted it.....
You said Muhammad took the bible and inverted it? Where you read that?Yes Muhammad pbuh was illiterate. Allah sent an angel, i.e. gabraiel to deliver the revelation to Muhammad pbuh. The angel used to memorize it to Muhammad and then Muhammad memorizes it and tell one of his followers to write what I tell you. The follower wrote and then Muhammad pbuh asked him what he wrote (to check that he has written correctly) and this way the quran was compiled.I think you said that Muslims force people to accept islam. If that is what you said then forcing people to convert to islam is wrong. Allah says in Quran that “No compulsion to accept Islam” (2:256). So if any muslim goes against quran and hadith then it is his problem, you can not blame Islam for that.Again you said that muslims are making cartoons and etc, Allah says in Quran that “Do not abuse to non-believers as they will, in their ignorance, abuse Allah”. So Islam condemns any fun-making acts by muslims. If any muslim does it then is wrong not Islam.Islam was never spread by swords. As I said Islam condemns it. If Muslims do it then they are doing wrong and against Islam.
 

Mazhar

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Mazhar:Muhammed is NOT the greatest messenger of all. He was just a man. Devil used Him. Jesus is for all humankind,Saviour from hell, son of God. Muslims have tried to misinterepted the bible,but they failed and the truth is still there as it is.Love you Mazhar, but not what you believe.Thunder1
Furthere proof from the bible that jesus was not God:"I can of mine own self do NOTHING . . ." JOHN 5:30 He had no knowledge of the hereafter:"But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, NEITHER THE SON, but the Father ". MARK 13:32 He was ignorant of the seasons:'And seeing a fig tree afar of having leaves, he came if happily he might find any thing there on. and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves, FOR THE TIME OF FIGS WAS NOT YET." MARK 11:13 Jesus (pbuh) as a thirsty "god'?:" . . . (Jesus) saith, I THIRST." . John 19:28 Jesus (pbuh) as a weeping "god'? "Jesus WEPT". JOHN I 1:3 5A "god" being tempted by the devil:"Where he (Jesus) stayed forty days, being tempted by Satan". MARK 1:13
 

Thunder1

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Furthere proof from the bible that jesus was not God:"I can of mine own self do NOTHING . . ." JOHN 5:30 He had no knowledge of the hereafter:"But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, NEITHER THE SON, but the Father ". MARK 13:32 He was ignorant of the seasons:'And seeing a fig tree afar of having leaves, he came if happily he might find any thing there on. and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves, FOR THE TIME OF FIGS WAS NOT YET." MARK 11:13 Jesus (pbuh) as a thirsty "god'?:" . . . (Jesus) saith, I THIRST." . John 19:28 Jesus (pbuh) as a weeping "god'? "Jesus WEPT". JOHN I 1:3 5A "god" being tempted by the devil:"Where he (Jesus) stayed forty days, being tempted by Satan". MARK 1:13
So, what you are quoting here is that Jesus is the son of God and He becameflesh, even Jesus did not know the day when He'll come back,only God, His Father knows that time. Jesus was tempted,but He did not fall into temptation as you and me do,because He was perfect without sin. Nothing new there. But very important points regarding,who is your Saviour from hell.
 
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