Is my salvation based upon my knowledge of the Trinity?

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Eternally Grateful

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Believers in the Trinity renders Hebrews 1:8 this way: “But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever.” Thus, they feel that Jesus is shown to be the same as Almighty God. Why is this not correct?

First, note the context. In many translations, either in the main text or in the margin, Hebrews 1:9 reads, “God, your God, anointed you.” This makes it clear that the one addressed in verse eight is not God, but one who worships God and is anointed by him.

Secondly, it should be noted that Hebrews 1:8, 9 is a quotation from Psalm 45:6, 7, which originally was addressed to a human king of Israel. Surely the writer of this psalm did not think that this human king was Almighty God and neither did the writer of Hebrews think that Jesus was Almighty God. Commenting on this, scholar B. F. Westcott said: “It is scarcely possible that אלוהים [‘Elo·himʹ, “God”] in the original can be addressed to the king. . . . Thus on the whole it seems best to adopt in the first clause the rendering: God is Thy throne (or, Thy throne is God), that is ‘Thy kingdom is founded upon God.’”


At Isaiah 44:6 Jehovah rightly describes his own position as the one and only almighty God, saying: “I am the first and I am the last, and besides me there is no God.” When Jesus presents himself by the title “the First and the Last,” he is not claiming equality with Jehovah, the Grand Creator. He is using a title properly bestowed on him by God. In Isaiah, Jehovah was making a statement about His unique position as the true God. He is God eternal, and besides him there is indeed no God. (1 Timothy 1:17) In Revelation, Jesus is talking about his bestowed title, calling attention to his unique resurrection.
Jesus was indeed “the First” human to be resurrected to immortal spirit life. (Colossians 1:18) Moreover, he is “the Last” to be so resurrected by Jehovah God personally. Thus, he becomes “the living one living forever and ever.” He enjoys immortality. In this, he is like his immortal Father, who is called “the living God.” (Revelation 7:2; Psalm 42:2) For all others of humanity, Jesus himself is “the resurrection and the life.” (John 11:25) In harmony with this, he says to John: “I became dead, but, look! I am living forever and ever, and I have the keys of death and of Hades.” (Revelation 1:18b) Jehovah has given him the authority to resurrect the dead. That is why Jesus can say that he has the keys to unlock the gates for those bound by death and Hades (gravedom).

You forgot Is 48 in your list of OT passages to look at.
 

Steve Owen

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Interestingly, there is no portion of the Lord's prayer that cannot be properly addressed to the Lord Jesus.

'Our Father which art in heaven.
Isaiah 9:6. 'Everlasting Father.' John 3:13. 'The Son of man which is in heaven.'

'Hallowed be thy name.'
2 Thes. 1:12. 'That the name of our Lord may be glorified.'

'Thy kingdom come.'

2 Peter 1:11. The everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.'

'Thy will be done on earth.'

Col. 3:24. 'Ye serve the Lord Christ.'

'As it is in heaven.'

1 Peter 3:22. 'Jesus Christ is gone into heaven....angels and authorities and powers being made subject to him.'

Give us this day our daily bread.'

Isaiah 11:11. 'He shall feed his flock like a shepherd.'

'Forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors.'

Col. 3:13. 'Forgiving one another: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.'

'And lead us not into temptation.'

John 10:3, 27. 'He leadeth them out. My sheep.....follow me.'

'But deliver us from evil.'

Gal. 1:4. 'Jesus Christ, who gave himself for our sins that he might deliver us from this present evil world.'

'For thine is the kingdom, the power and the glory, for ever and ever, Amen.

Rev. 11:15. 'He shall reign forever. Rev. 1:6. 'To him be glory and dominion for ever and ever.'
 

101G

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Although we have many clues from what God has said in the Old Testament, and statements that Jesus made, along with the events surround His baptism and transfiguration, that there are three separate personalities that most Bible scholars believe make up the plural God.

'Our Father which art in heaven.
Isaiah 9:6. 'Everlasting Father.' John 3:13. 'The Son of man which is in heaven.'
the Lord Jesus is "diversified" in flesh as the Body of God on earth. and his, JESUS Spirit which is in heaven. so correct that "son" of Isaiah 9:6 is the "EVERLASTING" God, who now is diversified in flesh as the offspring.
Give us this day our daily bread.'
Isaiah 11:11. 'He shall feed his flock like a shepherd.'
Jesus is that bread, which came down from heaven, John 6:33, and he is that shepherd feed us, John 10.
'Forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors.'
Col. 3:13. 'Forgiving one another: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.'
Matthew 9:2 "And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee.
Matthew 9:3 "And, behold, certain of the scribes said within themselves, This man blasphemeth.
Matthew 9:4 "And Jesus knowing their thoughts said, Wherefore think ye evil in your hearts?
Matthew 9:5 "For whether is easier, to say, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and walk?
Matthew 9:6 "But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house.
Matthew 9:7 "And he arose, and departed to his house.
'And lead us not into temptation.'
John 10:3, 27. 'He leadeth them out. My sheep.....follow me.'
James 1:13 "Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man".
the devil found that out in Matthews chapter 4. Matthew 4:7 "Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God". where was that written, Deuteronomy 6:16 "Ye shall not tempt the LORD your God, as ye tempted him in Massah". well "LORD", and "Lord" is the same person.
'But deliver us from evil.'
Gal. 1:4. 'Jesus Christ, who gave himself for our sins that he might deliver us from this present evil world.'
Colossians 1:13 "Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
For thine is the kingdom, the power and the glory, for ever and ever, Amen.
1 Timothy 6:14 "That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
1 Timothy 6:15 "Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
1 Timothy 6:16 "Who only hath immortality, (Isaiah 9:6, Everlasting Father), dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

PICJAG.
 

amadeus

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I like 1 John 5:7
7 For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.

It was quoted around 200 AD so it was deleted from later manuscripts, not added.
That verse and others help leave me in my quandary. God has given me many things over the years, but a revelation regarding who He is, [Trinity or Oneness or Other], is not one of them. I keeping leaving it as He gives it to me. I know that in my mixture there is still likely error. For this I continue to seek first His kingdom and His righteousness... and then as He adds anything else necessary, should I complain?

"Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therewith to be content." Phil 4:11
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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jws serve a god of this world, not Jesus, nor God the Creator.


So?

Actually it's Christendom that serves the God of this world. When Satan influences people such as Catholics and protestants, who say they're followers of Christ to fight and kill each other in war because some government of man tells them to, in the name of patriotism. A Catholic will kill a Catholic, a Baptist will kill a Baptist, a methodist will kill a methodist, etc. They all say they follow Jesus, that he is their Lord and Savior, but he is not, because Christendom has made themselves a friend to the world therefore they are enemies of The True God.
 

Joseph77

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No matter concerning what others serve - jws serve a false god,
this is already proven for decades or longer .

If anyone else also serves a false god, that still will not help jws.
 

bbyrd009

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No matter concerning what others serve - jws serve a false god,
this is already proven for decades or longer .

If anyone else also serves a false god, that still will not help jws.
hmm, you dont think we all serve a false god? All are deceived?
i mean it isnt pleasant to contemplate maybe, but it is much more honest?
If you then, being evil

i submit that thats the only way prolly tbh
 

bbyrd009

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ALL GOD'S WORD concerning the topic(s).
oh, i would def lean in the direction i am leaning, at least for myself; while there are compelling and wonderful vv about what i might attain, i am aware of the conditions there that i cannot say i have met
i follow Christ when it is convenient mostly i guess
if you then, being evil having been spoken @ the Apostles, how could i assume otherwise really

we get sold all those flowery vv as immediately, unconditionally applying to us after a little profession ritual bc the truth is not near as pleasant imo
 
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BARNEY BRIGHT

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It doesn't matter, I have shown to the reasonable person who truly wants to know the truth that's in the scriptures that you are wrong, someone who truly wants the Truth from the scriptures will see that. I could show how you're wrong on all the scriptures you listed and you still wouldn't believe, because the main thing you have to believe that you have to have faith in, you don't have faith in, "that it was the Only Begotten Son of God that came to mankind to save mankind," instead you believe it was God who came to mankind to save mankind, which means you're denying it was God Only Begotten Son that came to mankind to save mankind.
 

Joseph77

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The wisdom and false knowledge of the world and the false religious , like jws doctrines,
helps no one and deceives those who reject Jesus.
 

CharismaticLady

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That verse and others help leave me in my quandary. God has given me many things over the years, but a revelation regarding who He is, [Trinity or Oneness or Other], is not one of them. I keeping leaving it as He gives it to me. I know that in my mixture there is still likely error. For this I continue to seek first His kingdom and His righteousness... and then as He adds anything else necessary, should I complain?

"Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therewith to be content." Phil 4:11

Personally, I do not see them as three separate from each other persons, but one entity of three parts. That is how Jesus only did what He saw the Father doing (in His mind).
 
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Steve Owen

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the Lord Jesus is "diversified" in flesh as the Body of God on earth. and his, JESUS Spirit which is in heaven. so correct that "son" of Isaiah 9:6 is the "EVERLASTING" God, who now is diversified in flesh as the offspring.
May I ask what you mean by "diversified" here?
As Man, our Lord was Jesus of Nazareth. He hungered and thirsted, He got tired and needed to sleep. He died. God does not get tired or weary (Isaiah 40:28), nor does He sleep (Psalms 121:3-4) and certainly He does not die. The Lord Jesus was a man; man as if He were not God. But He also still a storm with a word; He raised the dead and forgave sins (c.f. Mark 2:7). He was also God; God as if He were not man.
 

Waiting on him

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May I ask what you mean by "diversified" here?
As Man, our Lord was Jesus of Nazareth. He hungered and thirsted, He got tired and needed to sleep. He died. God does not get tired or weary (Isaiah 40:28), nor does He sleep (Psalms 121:3-4) and certainly He does not die. The Lord Jesus was a man; man as if He were not God. But He also still a storm with a word; He raised the dead and forgave sins (c.f. Mark 2:7). He was also God; God as if He were not man.
di·ver·si·fy
/dəˈvərsəˌfī,dīˈvərsəˌfī/
Learn to pronounce

verb
past tense: diversified; past participle: diversified
  1. make or become more diverse or varied.
 

101G

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May I ask what you mean by "diversified" here?
As Man, our Lord was Jesus of Nazareth. He hungered and thirsted, He got tired and needed to sleep. He died. God does not get tired or weary (Isaiah 40:28), nor does He sleep (Psalms 121:3-4) and certainly He does not die. The Lord Jesus was a man; man as if He were not God. But He also still a storm with a word; He raised the dead and forgave sins (c.f. Mark 2:7). He was also God; God as if He were not man.
first thanks for the reply. and glad you ask, for many just be aganist something that they have never look at in the bible.
#1. May I ask what you mean by "diversified" here? sure,
diversified, or "diversity" is the bible identifying the Lord Jesus, who is God, (LORD) in Flesh. "diversity" simply means "OFFSPRING", which the Lord Jesus is. supportive scripture, Revelation 22:16 "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star". this word "Offspring" is the Greek word,
G1085 γένος genos (ǰe'-nos) n.
kin.
{abstract or concrete, literal or figurative, individual or collective}
[from G1096]
KJV: born, country(-man), diversity, generation, kind(-red), nation, offspring, stock
Root(s): G1096

as you can see, "offspring" can be translated as "diversity" which our Lord is. because he is his, God, "OWN ARM", supportive scripture, Isaiah 63:5 "And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me". God's own ARM is him "shared, or "Diversified" in flesh. supportive scripture, Isaiah 53:1 "Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed? this is God's "OWN ARM", Revealed in the Lord Jesus the christ. the rest of the verses 2-7 bear this out, I suggest you read them for yourself. see, the ARM of God is God himself "shared" or diversified in flesh as a man. supportive scripture, Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God". this arm that is God's own arm in Isaiah 53:1-7 is not a second person, but God himself, "equally" shared as one person, in flesh. and the way we know that the "ARM" of God is the "EQUAL" of God himself in flesh is that Philippians 2:6 states he is "Equally" in the "FORM" as God. so to understand what this means is understand what "Form" here in Philippians 2:6 means. it's the Greek word,
G3444 μορφή morphe (mor-fee') n.
1. form.
2. (intrinsically) fundamental nature.
[perhaps from the base of G3313 (through the idea of adjustment of parts)]
KJV: form
Root(s): G3313
there it is, definition #2. intrinsically fundamental nature. we know that God is a Spirit, see John 2:24a. but the million dollar question how is this "equally" natured "shared" to be "WITH" God as John 1:1 states. lthe root of the word which is as stated in the definition above, holds the key,
G3313 μέρος meros (me'-ros) n.
1. a portion (i.e. an amount allotted, a part of something).
another word, or a Similar, or Synonyms "Portion" is share.

so with the biblical research done, now we can understand who, and what the Lord Jesus is "WITH" God. he is his, God's own Arm, as the "Offspring" shared or manifested in flesh, (which is the OBJECTIVE), to his ownself , Spirit, (the Subjective).

in layman's term Jesus is God himself manifested in flesh as a man, which is the "EQUALLY" share of his ownself, Spirit. so Jesus is no second person to no body, and as the Holy Spirit, who hold both Titles, "LORD", without flesh, Father, and "Lord" with flesh, "Son.

this is what I was trying to get you to see in Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he. this is one person. the first, is the "ROOT", the Father, without Flesh, and the Last is the "OFFSPRING", the Son, meaning as we has shown is the "diversity" with God, because he is God's "OWN ARM". BINGO, that the Godhead plan and simple. no second person, nor a third, but one person shared.

now your #2 question. "As Man, our Lord was Jesus of Nazareth. He hungered and thirsted, He got tired and needed to sleep. He died. God does not get tired or weary (Isaiah 40:28), nor does He sleep (Psalms 121:3-4) and certainly He does not die. The Lord Jesus was a man; man as if He were not God. But He also still a storm with a word; He raised the dead and forgave sins (c.f. Mark 2:7). He was also God; God as if He were not man".
this is easy to answer, listen, right back to Philippians 2:7 "But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men".
the term of, "no reputation" is the Greek word,
G2758 κενόω kenoo (ke-no-ō') v.
1. to make empty.
2. (figuratively) to abase, neutralize, falsify.
[from G2756]
KJV: make (of none effect, of no reputation, void), be in vain
Root(s): G2756

by making his "diversified" self, G2758 κενόω kenoo, he can now get tired, sleep, and eat...... ect. got it now? the fleshly nature he took on was weak as you and I, but the shared spirit that was in that flesh was the same nature, only neutralize for the death burial and resurrection of the NEW MAN, or the NEW CREATION. the "First" creation from the dead. that's God.

if you have any question, please ask.

PICJAG.
 
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Waiting on him

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Isaiah 48:11 KJV
For mine own sake, even for mine own sake, will I do it : for how should my name be polluted? and I will not give my glory unto another.