Is Revenge a Sin?

[St. SteVen]

Most readers would answer in the affirmative. Yes, revenge is a sin... for us, but not for God.
For us, but not for God?

Why? Does God operate at a lower standard than he holds us to?
Many would bristle at that question. Why?

We are required to love our enemies. Jesus taught this as godly behavior. (Matthew 5:44-48)

If revenge is a sin, then perhaps we are misunderstanding this scripture about the wrath of God.
(notice verse 21) Overcome evil with good.

Romans 12:18-21 NIV
If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone.
19 Do not take revenge, my dear friends, but leave room for God’s wrath,
for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,”[a] says the Lord.
20 On the contrary:
“If your enemy is hungry, feed him;
if he is thirsty, give him something to drink.
In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head.”[b]
21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

 

[quietthinker]

Most readers would answer in the affirmative. Yes, revenge is a sin... for us, but not for God.
For us, but not for God?

Why? Does God operate at a lower standard than he holds us to?
Many would bristle at that question. Why?

We are required to love our enemies. Jesus taught this as godly behavior. (Matthew 5:44-48)

If revenge is a sin, then perhaps we are misunderstanding this scripture about the wrath of God.
(notice verse 21) Overcome evil with good.

Romans 12:18-21 NIV
If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone.
19 Do not take revenge, my dear friends, but leave room for God’s wrath,
for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,”[a] says the Lord.
20 On the contrary:
“If your enemy is hungry, feed him;
if he is thirsty, give him something to drink.
In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head.”[b]
21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

The wrath of God is clearly defined in Romans 1:18-32....specifically vs 24-28.
This is the measure to understand the expression 'God's wrath'

 

[St. SteVen]

The wrath of God is clearly defined in Romans 1:18-32....specifically vs 24-28.
This is the measure to understand the expression 'God's wrath'

Talks about homosexuality. ???
What does that have to do with the topic?

 

[quietthinker]

Talks about homosexuality. ???
What does that have to do with the topic?

I think you've missed the point.
The point is that Paul is defining Gods wrath. He defines it by 'giving them over'. In other words, if we insist on and in our sinful ways the Spirit will not longer strive with us and we are left to the choices of our sinful ways which eventually destroy us. They will alienate us from God, from each other and ourselves. We become shells with a pretended image till we implode.

 

[Ziggy]

God is a righteous judge. His punishments are just.
His justice is weighed and balanced.
I call it karma. What goes around comes around.
Our own human nature to react is like saying we are as righteous or as just as the Judge himself to decide how to mete out punishments or rewards.
God's vengeance on our behalf or for those who have been wronged usually fits the crime better than we ever could.
Makes me think of the book of Ruth and how justice was given to Haman.
Ruth petitioned the King and that's what we should do.
And His Justice is right.

Hugs

 

[quietthinker]

God is a righteous judge. His punishments are just.
His justice is weighed and balanced.
I call it karma. What goes around comes around.
Our own human nature to react is like saying we are as righteous or as just as the Judge himself to decide how to mete out punishments or rewards.
God's vengeance on our behalf or for those who have been wronged usually fits the crime better than we ever could.
Makes me think of the book of Ruth and how justice was given to Haman.
Ruth petitioned the King and that's what we should do.
And His Justice is right.

Hugs

As long as we define God's justice as revenge as we understand in the fallen human arena, the dots we join are tit for tat, yet isn't how the devil operates/ rationalises.

God's justice is of a different flavour altogether as is the definition of his wrath.

Is there courage to question these assumptions? or are these cows so holy we won't even broach them?

 

[Ziggy]

Is there a difference between revenge and vengeance?
Vengeance is mine saith the Lord.
I believe all questions are good and no rock should be left unturned when seeking the truth.
Judge nor lest ye be judged.
God's justice is of a different flavour... I'm thinking salty or sweet depending upon what end of the rod your on.

 

[Ziggy]

Key Difference: In terms of context, revenge is more personal, while the use of the term vengeance implies justice and honor. Vengeance implies righteousness, whereas revenge is dirty, vile or cheap depending on the situation used.​

The terms revenge and vengeance are closely intertwined, which is why there is no wonder that they are often confused. In fact, many people use them interchangeably, and while they are not wrong, it should be noted that the two words have different connotations and are used in different situations.
According to Dictionary.com, “revenge” is defined as “to exact punishment or expiation for a wrong on behalf of, especially in a resentful or vindictive spirit.” Whereas, “vengeance” is defined as “infliction of injury, harm, humiliation, or the like, on a person by another who has been harmed by that person.”

Difference between Revenge and Vengeance | Revenge vs Vengeance

In terms of context, revenge is more personal, while the use of the term vengeance implies justice and honor. Vengeance implies righteousness, whereas revenge is dirty, vile or cheap depending on the situation used.

www.differencebetween.info

reminds me of when James and John wanted to call down fire from the heavens and destroy a city that would not hear them.
And Jesus rebuked them and said: Ye know not what spirit ye are of.

This has elluded me for a long time. I think I understand now.

Hugs

 

[amigo de christo]

Key Difference: In terms of context, revenge is more personal, while the use of the term vengeance implies justice and honor. Vengeance implies righteousness, whereas revenge is dirty, vile or cheap depending on the situation used.​

The terms revenge and vengeance are closely intertwined, which is why there is no wonder that they are often confused. In fact, many people use them interchangeably, and while they are not wrong, it should be noted that the two words have different connotations and are used in different situations.
According to Dictionary.com, “revenge” is defined as “to exact punishment or expiation for a wrong on behalf of, especially in a resentful or vindictive spirit.” Whereas, “vengeance” is defined as “infliction of injury, harm, humiliation, or the like, on a person by another who has been harmed by that person.”

Difference between Revenge and Vengeance | Revenge vs Vengeance

In terms of context, revenge is more personal, while the use of the term vengeance implies justice and honor. Vengeance implies righteousness, whereas revenge is dirty, vile or cheap depending on the situation used.

www.differencebetween.info

reminds me of when James and John wanted to call down fire from the heavens and destroy a city that would not hear them.
And Jesus rebuked them and said: Ye know not what spirit ye are of.

This has elluded me for a long time. I think I understand now.

Hugs

The one thing i do know is vengeance belongs unto GOD . The only goodness i have comes FROM HE ALONE IN CHRIST .
SO rebuke error i sure will . cast those out of the church who refuse to repent i sure would .
but as far as repaying evil for evil , or acting out vengeance for what was done to me . NOPE .
GOD didnt give me the vengeance i deserved , IT WAS GRACE INSTEAD . GOD will DESTROY the WICKED on HIS DAY .
ON that i am sure . But we must simply preach CHRIST and all doctrine and keep that pattern FOR the CHURCH
in all things . People have wronged me , but in times past i wronged many myself .
Whatever men do to me , I pray GOD gives me the wisdom to always remember to repay evil with good
to pray even for those who do hate me . For i was forgiven of a moutain of sins against GOD and man .
AND that FOR WHAT JESUS DID . Thus this world is gonna do to me as it will
but like CHRIST , like stephen , like paul and others , WE FORGIVE . Lay not this sin against them .
GOD will judge the wicked . I just hope they repent FIRST coming to CHRIST , so as they will have mercy rather
than JUDGMENT . But to correct sin and error , WE MUST .

 

[Ziggy]

SO rebuke error i sure will . cast those out of the church who refuse to repent i sure would .

I agree with rebuking error, but as far as casting people out of the church... is that our responsibility or God's ?
Rev 2:22
Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

I hear your zeal brother and understand the frustration. But I'm not sure if it is God's will or our own will that people be kept or cast out.
I think sometimes God sends thorns among us to test our faith in his decisions.
Timing. You could be casting away someone who God has plans for their repentance just not in our timing.
Paul had a problem with thorns and Jesus told him what...

2Co 12:7
And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
2Co 12:8
For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.
2Co 12:9
And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
2Co 12:10
Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.

Grace. Sometimes thorns are sent among us to teach us grace. To help us ripen our fruits of patience and longsuffering and tolerance.
It is for our benefit to bring these matters to the Lord in prayer and not to take them into our own hands.

How long did God wait for our willingness to repent?

Hugs

 

[quietthinker]

God is a righteous judge. His punishments are just.
His justice is weighed and balanced.
I call it karma. What goes around comes around.
Our own human nature to react is like saying we are as righteous or as just as the Judge himself to decide how to mete out punishments or rewards.
God's vengeance on our behalf or for those who have been wronged usually fits the crime better than we ever could.
Makes me think of the book of Ruth and how justice was given to Haman.
Ruth petitioned the King and that's what we should do.
And His Justice is right.

Hugs

You work from the premise that justice is punishment. Is that an accurate connection considering the advice is to turn the other cheek? .....demonstrating it by allowing his crucifixion.

 

[Ziggy]

You work from the premise that justice is punishment. Is that an accurate connection considering the advice is to turn the other cheek? .....demonstrating it by allowing his crucifixion.

Justice can go both ways. Justice can also be a reward. The man who has his store robbed goes to Justice to be compensated for his loss.
A petition.
There are both prosecuters and defendants in justice.

If someone does you wrong without provocation, then yes turn the other cheek. Imagine if God punched back everytime we struck out in anger or blame. We would deserve it. But he understands our weaknesses. Our desire to be the ones in control. Exacting justice on others even though they deserve it.
Father forgive them for they know not what they do.
They believed they was doing God's will. They believed he was the "antichrist", They believed he was the deciever.
They were so entrenched in their own wisdom they couldn't see or understand God's wisdom. They wouldn't even take the time to listen.
And yet he asked forgiveness for them instead of revenge.
Later, when these same people learned the truth, they were cut to the heart. They had to live with that guilt the rest of their lives.
And only turning to the one they rejected would save them. They came crumbling down in humility and shame.
Is this Justice?

Hugs

 

[St. SteVen]

I think you've missed the point.
The point is that Paul is defining Gods wrath. He defines it by 'giving them over'. In other words, if we insist on and in our sinful ways the Spirit will not longer strive with us and we are left to the choices of our sinful ways which eventually destroy us. They will alienate us from God, from each other and ourselves. We become shells with a pretended image till we implode.

Good response, thanks.

Implode. (the last word in your post)
I believe that God does not abandon His good purposes for us when we stray.
That scripture hints at the state of reprobation, which is initiated by God, not by us.
Allowing us to hit bottom hard, Left to our own choices, as you put it.

In that desolate land there is only one way to go -- up.
Which I believe is God's purpose for consigning such. The Good Shepherd leaves the ninety-nine...

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Is Revenge a Sin?

Yes, it IS a sin.... one has to walk in un-forgiveness to take revenge not to mention vengeance belongs to the Lord so those taking revenge on others are taking something from the Lord that He says is His which is dishonoring the Lord and is a slap in His face!

Romans 12:19 (see Deut 32:35)
Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

Matthew 6:15
But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

 

[quietthinker]

Yes, it IS a sin.... one has to walk in un-forgiveness to take revenge not to mention vengeance belongs to the Lord so those taking revenge on others are taking something from the Lord that He says is His which is dishonoring the Lord and is a slap in His face!

Romans 12:19 (see Deut 32:35)
Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

Matthew 6:15
But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

It looks like there's been some messing with in the reply section. What you've posted of me asking is not something I've asked.

 

[Lambano]

Most readers would answer in the affirmative. Yes, revenge is a sin... for us, but not for God.
For us, but not for God?

Why? Does God operate at a lower standard than he holds us to?
Many would bristle at that question. Why?

Maybe the sinfulness of revenge is usurping a privilege reserved for God only?

Think about it.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Most readers would answer in the affirmative. Yes, revenge is a sin... for us, but not for God.
For us, but not for God?

Why? Does God operate at a lower standard than he holds us to?
Many would bristle at that question. Why?

We are required to love our enemies. Jesus taught this as godly behavior. (Matthew 5:44-48)

If revenge is a sin, then perhaps we are misunderstanding this scripture about the wrath of God.
(notice verse 21) Overcome evil with good.

Perhaps the answer lies in the difference between “avenge” and “revenge”.....

To avenge is to punish a wrong with the idea of seeing justice done. It has the idea of depending on authorities to see that their justice system administers the correct punishment for the crime committed...not hastily “taking the law into our own hands”.

Whereas, “revenge” is harsher and/or less concerned with justice than with retaliating by inflicting harm on someone whom we believe deserves it. It is reactionary and hasty, whereas due process of law allows time for guilt to be proven by the judicial means God has arranged. Once proven guilty, justice would be swiftly administered....but if proven innocent, justice would also be served.

If we can discern the difference we can see the wisdom of what Paul wrote in Romans 12:19...

“Do not take revenge, my dear friends, but leave room for God’s wrath,
for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay, says the Lord.”

God is the ultimate authority and he sees the whole picture, not the limited human view of things....his justice, administered through his own channels, will be true justice.

 

[St. SteVen]

Maybe the sinfulness of revenge is usurping a privilege reserved for God only?

Think about it.

Perhaps.
That's a really good question.

But in addition to not taking revenge, God also requires us to forgive.
To love our enemy. Which is presented as godly behavior. (Matthew 5:43-48)

Does God also forgive his enemies? Those he could rightfully take revenge on?
Like us?

Why isn't he taking revenge on us? Or will he?

/

 

[St. SteVen]

God is the ultimate authority and he sees the whole picture, not the limited human view of things....his justice, administered through his own channels, will be true justice.

Good post, thanks.

James 2:13 NIV
... Mercy triumphs over judgment.

/

 

[quietthinker]

Maybe the sinfulness of revenge is usurping a privilege reserved for God only?

Think about it.

I don't think God takes revenge. Revenge is the action taken by those who have no forgiveness in their heart.