Is Revenge a Sin?

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St. SteVen

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Most readers would answer in the affirmative. Yes, revenge is a sin... for us, but not for God.
For us, but not for God?

Why? Does God operate at a lower standard than he holds us to?
Many would bristle at that question. Why?

We are required to love our enemies.
Jesus taught this as godly behavior. (Matthew 5:44-48)


If revenge is a sin, then perhaps we are misunderstanding this scripture about the wrath of God.
(notice verse 21) Overcome evil with good.

Romans 12:18-21 NIV
If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone.
19 Do not take revenge, my dear friends, but leave room for God’s wrath,
for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,”[a] says the Lord.
20 On the contrary:
“If your enemy is hungry, feed him;
if he is thirsty, give him something to drink.
In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head.”[b]
21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

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Aunty Jane

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Most readers would answer in the affirmative. Yes, revenge is a sin... for us, but not for God.
For us, but not for God?

Why? Does God operate at a lower standard than he holds us to?
We know that a just and loving God will never render an injustice to anyone. As our Creator, he has the right to dictate the terms of the life and free will that he gave us. So what does the Bible record show as to how God himself handled the application of his justice?

In dealing with the Jews as his chosen nation, who of their own free will agreed to obey their God and abide by the law code he gave them, what transpired when individuals and even the whole nation acted in a way that forced their God to discipline them and to make examples of the prime offenders?
The outcome was a chastening of his people and a compliance based on the administration of that discipline. Sin was inborn in humans from Adam, but that did not excuse willful disobedience in his people.

What was the penalty, (clearly stated in his Law) for capital crimes? It was death……and when the death penalty was carried out by God in the wilderness, it was swift and after God had judged the offenders.…so, who was the chief judge of all? Was it not God himself? Did God have the right to punish offenders?

In Israel’s encounter with their enemies in the Promised Land, why did God give them the victory?
Those foreign nations came to battle in the name of their false gods, so Israel’s God forced those invaders to recognize that Israel’s God was superior to their own. They learned that that their own gods were non existent.

What did God say to Pharaoh in executing the 10 plagues? Pharaoh himself was considered a god….

”For by now I could have thrust my hand out to strike you and your people with a devastating plague, and you would have been wiped out from the earth. 16  But for this very reason I have kept you in existence: to show you my power and to have my name declared in all the earth.”

During Hezekiah’s reign, the mighty Assyrian army threatened Jerusalem.
So he prayed, saying: “O Jehovah our God, save us out of [the Assyrian’s] hand, that all the kingdoms of the earth may know that you, O Jehovah, are God alone.” (Isa 37:20)

In this impending battle, the Israelites were certain to lose to the sheer number of trained soldiers who came against them. Their arrogant king had boasted about their certain victory, yet when he awoke on the morning of the battle, all he found were dead soldiers….185,000 of them, struck down by one angel…..Israel’s God showed that nation who was protecting Israel’s land, preventing invaders from stealing it from them. Would such a thing go unreported?

Does God operate at a lower standard than he holds us to? That is a ridiculous question given that God alone has the right to decide who lives and who forfeits the life he gave to us. It is because he has those standards and that he alone knows all the factors involved in his decisions, that he can carry out his own justice in his own time and way. Does the clay have a right to dictate to the potter, what is just and what is not?
Many would bristle at that question. Why?
Why? Because they are imposing their own standards on an all knowing God.
When he says “don’t do” something or else there will be consequences…..where is the justice if he does not carry out his own word? The Bible is filled with stories about the execution of God’s justice and he answers to no one….least of all sinful humans who try to bring him down to their own level.
We are required to love our enemies.
Jesus taught this as godly behavior. (Matthew 5:44-48)


If revenge is a sin, then perhaps we are misunderstanding this scripture about the wrath of God.
(notice verse 21) Overcome evil with good.
It is not revenge that is a sin, because it is inborn in our nature to have justice prevail….who likes it when a perpetrator uses some loophole in the law to escape a deserved punishment? Or when there is not enough evidence to convict someone you know is guilty of a crime?

The truth is, God knows it all, and no one will escape his justice at the end of the day.
He doesn’t just see the crime, but he knows full well what motivated it, just as he knows what motivates our desire for justice to be carried out…..but he does not permit his people to take the law into their own hands, putting themselves on equal footing with the the criminal.
Romans 12:18-21 NIV
If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone.
19 Do not take revenge, my dear friends, but leave room for God’s wrath,
for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,”[a] says the Lord.
20 On the contrary:
“If your enemy is hungry, feed him;
if he is thirsty, give him something to drink.
In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head.”[b]
21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.
If recompense under God’s law is required, then we must leave it to God to carry it out.
The above quote was written in the Christian era, after Christ had offered his life.
A new covenant was now in force.
The days when Israel were guided and protected by their God were over. Their Messiah had come, but they rejected him and ended their relationship with Yahweh. (Matt 23:37-39)
No Christian could participate in acts of violence any more, no matter what their nationality was.

As the apostles showed when they were persecuted by the Jewish leadership, they refused to retaliate, but surrendered peacefully.…allowing God to direct the outcome, which was always in keeping with his will.

Christians had a new way to prove their spiritual strength…..to overcome evil with good.….offering no hatred, violence or retaliation against those who came to persecute them. This is what made them martyrs…a strength of character that made them stand out from the weak pretenders.….those who were Christians in name only.

It’s the reason why there is a judiciary system in most nations…where all the facts are presented from both sides and judged accordingly. Even when flawed and corrupt humans and their systems fail, God never will. We will all account to him in the end…..

So, we are “not to return evil for evil” in any circumstance because we are not in full knowledge of all the facts….and it doesn’t matter anyway….if recompense is due, God will carry it out.

Do you believe that? If you do then you will never find justification for the wars of the nations. No Christian can participate in willful violence of any kind.…nor can they be seen supporting those who employ the weapons.
We cannot have blood on our hands. (isa 1:15)
 
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Lambano

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Most readers would answer in the affirmative. Yes, revenge is a sin... for us, but not for God.
For us, but not for God?

Why? Does God operate at a lower standard than he holds us to?
Many would bristle at that question. Why?
The obvious answer is that it's a sin for us because we're usurping a privilege reserved for God. It has nothing to do with morality; it has everything to do with preserving the privilege system.

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St. SteVen

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The obvious answer is that it's a sin for us because we're usurping a privilege reserved for God. It has nothing to do with morality; it has everything to do with preserving the privilege system.
Doesn't that leave us with the problem of a double standard for morality?
As if God holds us to a higher standard than he holds himself?

Jesus taught us that it is godly behavior to love our enemies. What should he do with His?

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Toro55

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At the sermon on the mount its one of the Laws that Jesus spoke out against.No eye for an eye forgiveness instead.
There is a price to pay for revenge - as long as you know when you wake up tomorrow you will have to answer for it.Revenge is usually done without any thought of what happens afterwards its done in hatred and extreme anger.You know like a dumb teenager who doesn't think about tomorrow.There will always be consequences.
 
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Lambano

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I wonder why godliness is even encouraged, if it is out of our lane?

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I was being intentionally provocative. (What? Who, me? Would I do that?)

"'Vengeance is mine' saith the Lord; 'I will repay'" clearly defines the roles and responsibilities we have and that God has in this relationship. Having well-defined roles is important! God is bluntly saying that ultimate justice is His job, not ours, and He wants us to trust Him with it, and not try to take matters into our own hands and risk getting into one of those spiraling tit-for-tat cycles of revenge and counter-revenge - all in the name of "Justice".

GY_-jCY3RbveSL-G2LENQ3BeLT_iNebHv4LDgLzbIqg.jpg
 
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St. SteVen

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The English language should retire the word "godliness". It's too easily conflated with "god-like-ness".
That's worth exploring.
It seems there are already many gods below the one supreme God.
And we are encouraged to be Christ-like.


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Lambano

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That's worth exploring.
It seems there are already many gods below the one supreme God.
And we are encouraged to be Christ-like.


[
Made me look at that old thread. I still think the Psalmist was being sarcastic when he called the rulers "gods". And Jesus was just playing the Pharisees at that point in the conversation.

However, when I look at the writings of the Early Church Fathers linked in some of the Trinitarian threads, I think the Subordinationist position is probably closer to what the Early Church believed and what the NT writers wrote., contrary to the full Trinitarian position.
 
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St. SteVen

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Is Revenge a Sin?​


Most readers would answer in the affirmative.
Yes, revenge is a sin... for us, but not for God.
For us, but not for God?


Why? Does God operate at a lower standard than he holds us to?
Many would bristle at that question. Why?

We are required to love our enemies.
Jesus taught this as godly behavior. (Matthew 5:44-48)

If revenge is a sin, then perhaps we are misunderstanding this scripture about the wrath of God.
(notice verse 21) Overcome evil with good.

Romans 12:18-21 NIV
If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone.
19 Do not take revenge, my dear friends, but leave room for God’s wrath,
for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,”[a] says the Lord.
20 On the contrary:
“If your enemy is hungry, feed him;
if he is thirsty, give him something to drink.
In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head.”[b]
21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

[
 

MatthewG

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Job 41:11 says, “Who has first given to Me, that I should repay him? Whatever is under the whole heaven is Mine.”

It’s hard for me to see God as unjust—He’s sovereign over everything, and His actions throughout history reflect that. The wrath that was poured out on Israel, for example, was something clearly spoken of and promised in the Old Testament.

Today, a lot of people turn to God hoping for justice—especially when someone’s brought chaos or harm into their lives. That longing for fairness is deeply human.

And yes, Yeshua taught us to love our enemies, which is powerful. But realistically, many of us don't feel like we have "enemies" unless someone is actively causing problems—like personal harassment, or invading our space at home or work.

People can catch felonies for such crimes.

Back in the first century, believers really did face intense opposition, even persecution to the point of death. While challenges still exist today, it's not quite the same level as it was in that time.
 

St. SteVen

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Job 41:11 says, “Who has first given to Me, that I should repay him? Whatever is under the whole heaven is Mine.”
Does that mean that God operates under a lower standard than He holds us to?
The idea that God can do as He pleases, because He is God, infers that He is a merciless tyrant.

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MatthewG

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Does that mean that God operates under a lower standard than He holds us to?
The idea that God can do as He pleases, because He is God, infers that He is a merciless tyrant.

[
I’ll let you decide for yourself.
 

St. SteVen

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St. SteVen said:
Does that mean that God operates under a lower standard than He holds us to?
The idea that God can do as He pleases, because He is God, infers that He is a merciless tyrant.
I’ll let you decide for yourself.
This is a typical forum response to my challenges.
I present a logical idea and the respondent puts the "blame" on me.

Even though the conclusion I presented was based on their own claims.
They simply refuse to own their own position, preferring rather
to throw it back at me, as if it was I who made the claim.

To be clear, I DO NOT claim that God is a tyrant.
If you agree, then how should Job 14:11 be interpreted?

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MatthewG

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Steven, I just said I’ll let you decide. I’m not putting anything on you man, other than decision making. Lol.

Everyone in life gotta make a decision one way or the other and stand by it or change their mind on it and that is just the way it is.
 

St. SteVen

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Everyone in life gotta make a decision one way or the other and stand by it or change their mind on it and that is just the way it is.
If that is true, why can't you stand by the obvious conclusions of your own claims?
What was the point of quoting Job 14:11 on this topic?

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