Brakelite
Well-Known Member
Who was it that stood upon mt Sinai and spoke exodus 20:8.
Is Sunday sacredness in the Bible?
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That's the Law of Moses, not the New Covenant!
Galatians 3:24-25
24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.
Not a COMMAND for Christians.
That was ONLY for Israel. Stick with the New Covenant. It's the road to God's Kingdom.
Galatians 3:24-25
24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
And with all your challenging against the Sabbath, is that all you have in response to the thread title? Where in scripture is there a sacredness for any day other than the Sabbath?
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
This is being discussed in the thread “Why is it important to keep the Sabbath”
The Lord’s Day on Sunday is not discussed in the New Testament because it was established shortly after the biblical period. And it appears in early Christian writings.
People get mixed up on the timeline and the sequence of events. Other people will take that confusion to take the opportunity to deceive. Do not let them deceive you.
They can find scriptures that show that people were observing the Sabbath during Christ’s ministry because they were still in the Old Covenant with God. There is no surprise there.
Again history does not shift like a light switch. There was in fact a transitional period were the Sabbath was the only holy day of the week, but sometime in the 1st century that shifted to the Lord’s Day on Sunday, particularly when the Christian ministry shifted to the Gentiles and Jewish-Christian sect died out.
And the Jewish-Christians were attempting to mix the Old Covenant with the New Covenant. Which is something that does not work. Ask someone that is advocating observing the Sabbath how they do it? Really, all we have for the Genesis version of the Sabbath is a day of rest….Physical rest and cessation of labor. How to keep it holy is not explained. So what they are suggesting is just wing it and they can make up anything from there.
The Mosaic Law addresses the Sabbath and it is very restrictive which includes death penalties. Death penalties that were mandatory. Meaning you break the Sabbath Laws if you do not kill those that break them. Are we going to kill people? Or are we just back to winging it. After Christ’s resurrection there is no requirement stated to observe the Sabbath.
It is all irrelevant because Christians are in the New Covenant with God and the Old Covenant Laws do not pertain to Christians. Still the judaizers persist.
Are they suggesting two days of rest?
Are they suggesting ignoring the Lord’s Day on Sunday?
Are they suggesting abandoning the New Covenant in favor of the Old Covenant?
Are we just going to mix the Old Covenant with the New Covenant and just wing it as we feel like?
Where is the dividing line? Are we going to look to the Old Testament for morals and customs? Are we going to go to church and sacrifice animals? Are we going to make a profit selling our daughters as sex slaves? Are we going to practice polygamy? Are we going to have slaves? The fact is that the scriptures Old or New Testament does not have a moratorium on any of these. Nor a requirement for a wedding ceremony to be married. There is a lot that Christianity learned after the biblical period, the Lord’s Day is just one of them.
The Lord’s Day on Sunday is not discussed in the New Testament because it was established shortly after the biblical period. And it appears in early Christian writings.
People get mixed up on the timeline and the sequence of events. Other people will take that confusion to take the opportunity to deceive. Do not let them deceive you.
They can find scriptures that show that people were observing the Sabbath during Christ’s ministry because they were still in the Old Covenant with God. There is no surprise there.
Again history does not shift like a light switch. There was in fact a transitional period were the Sabbath was the only holy day of the week, but sometime in the 1st century that shifted to the Lord’s Day on Sunday, particularly when the Christian ministry shifted to the Gentiles and Jewish-Christian sect died out.
And the Jewish-Christians were attempting to mix the Old Covenant with the New Covenant. Which is something that does not work. Ask someone that is advocating observing the Sabbath how they do it? Really, all we have for the Genesis version of the Sabbath is a day of rest….Physical rest and cessation of labor. How to keep it holy is not explained. So what they are suggesting is just wing it and they can make up anything from there.
The Mosaic Law addresses the Sabbath and it is very restrictive which includes death penalties. Death penalties that were mandatory. Meaning you break the Sabbath Laws if you do not kill those that break them. Are we going to kill people? Or are we just back to winging it. After Christ’s resurrection there is no requirement stated to observe the Sabbath.
It is all irrelevant because Christians are in the New Covenant with God and the Old Covenant Laws do not pertain to Christians. Still the judaizers persist.
Are they suggesting two days of rest?
Are they suggesting ignoring the Lord’s Day on Sunday?
Are they suggesting abandoning the New Covenant in favor of the Old Covenant?
Are we just going to mix the Old Covenant with the New Covenant and just wing it as we feel like?
Where is the dividing line? Are we going to look to the Old Testament for morals and customs? Are we going to go to church and sacrifice animals? Are we going to make a profit selling our daughters as sex slaves? Are we going to practice polygamy? Are we going to have slaves? The fact is that the scriptures Old or New Testament does not have a moratorium on any of these. Nor a requirement for a wedding ceremony to be married. There is a lot that Christianity learned after the biblical period, the Lord’s Day is just one of them.
My challenging? I didn't write this.
Galatians 3:24-25
24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.
I never said there was any. Stick with the New Covenant. You'll get in big trouble preaching the Law to Christians.
Please note what the line says: "In the end of the Sabbaths as it began to dawn toward the first of the Sabbaths...." In other words, the era of the Seventh Day Sabbaths is coming to an end, and a new era of the first Sabbaths is coming into view.
To God Be The Glory
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
That's your spin. For a law that had endured for over 1000 years, and you offer that dubious interpretation and hazy text as your evidence that God changed His law that Jesus had previously said would never change? I'm not buying it.
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
To whom it may concern, and I think that is many....
KJV Hebrews 8:6-8
6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
I have some questions, based on the texts above, and based on the premise believed by many that the ten commandments are the old covenant that was done away with, needing to be replaced with a new one.
First question. Please show me what is faulty with the ten commandments. Paul said that God's Commandments were holy, just, and good. Where's the fault? How can the law of God be holy and faulty at the same time?
Second question. Please find me within the ten commandments promises that need improvement. Apparently, this old covenant, whatever it is, incorporated some poor promises. Where are they in the ten commandments? In the ten commandments we have this...
KJV Ephesians 6:1-3
1 Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right.
2 Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise
3 That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.
I would really like summertime to tell me what is faulty with the above promise.
Third question. We are told that whatever it is, the old covenant was to be abolished. Now of the ten commandments were to be abolished, people need to explain why Paul would be so contradictory to say...
KJV Romans 3:31
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Was Paul saying, as so many Christians believe, "Do we make void the old covenant by faith? God forbid, we establish the old covenant". Anytime make sense of that? Because if you think the ten commandments law is the old covenant, then that last statement is what you would have us believe.
KJV Hebrews 8:6-8
6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
I have some questions, based on the texts above, and based on the premise believed by many that the ten commandments are the old covenant that was done away with, needing to be replaced with a new one.
First question. Please show me what is faulty with the ten commandments. Paul said that God's Commandments were holy, just, and good. Where's the fault? How can the law of God be holy and faulty at the same time?
Second question. Please find me within the ten commandments promises that need improvement. Apparently, this old covenant, whatever it is, incorporated some poor promises. Where are they in the ten commandments? In the ten commandments we have this...
KJV Ephesians 6:1-3
1 Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right.
2 Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise
3 That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.
I would really like summertime to tell me what is faulty with the above promise.
Third question. We are told that whatever it is, the old covenant was to be abolished. Now of the ten commandments were to be abolished, people need to explain why Paul would be so contradictory to say...
KJV Romans 3:31
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Was Paul saying, as so many Christians believe, "Do we make void the old covenant by faith? God forbid, we establish the old covenant". Anytime make sense of that? Because if you think the ten commandments law is the old covenant, then that last statement is what you would have us believe
KJV Hebrews 8:6-8
6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
I have some questions, based on the texts above, and based on the premise believed by many that the ten commandments are the old covenant that was done away with, needing to be replaced with a new one.
First question. Please show me what is faulty with the ten commandments. Paul said that God's Commandments were holy, just, and good. Where's the fault? How can the law of God be holy and faulty at the same time?
Second question. Please find me within the ten commandments promises that need improvement. Apparently, this old covenant, whatever it is, incorporated some poor promises. Where are they in the ten commandments? In the ten commandments we have this...
KJV Ephesians 6:1-3
1 Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right.
2 Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise
3 That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.
I would really like summertime to tell me what is faulty with the above promise.
Third question. We are told that whatever it is, the old covenant was to be abolished. Now of the ten commandments were to be abolished, people need to explain why Paul would be so contradictory to say...
KJV Romans 3:31
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Was Paul saying, as so many Christians believe, "Do we make void the old covenant by faith? God forbid, we establish the old covenant". Anytime make sense of that? Because if you think the ten commandments law is the old covenant, then that last statement is what you would have us believe.
KJV Hebrews 8:6-8
6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
I have some questions, based on the texts above, and based on the premise believed by many that the ten commandments are the old covenant that was done away with, needing to be replaced with a new one.
First question. Please show me what is faulty with the ten commandments. Paul said that God's Commandments were holy, just, and good. Where's the fault? How can the law of God be holy and faulty at the same time?
Second question. Please find me within the ten commandments promises that need improvement. Apparently, this old covenant, whatever it is, incorporated some poor promises. Where are they in the ten commandments? In the ten commandments we have this...
KJV Ephesians 6:1-3
1 Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right.
2 Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise
3 That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.
I would really like summertime to tell me what is faulty with the above promise.
Third question. We are told that whatever it is, the old covenant was to be abolished. Now of the ten commandments were to be abolished, people need to explain why Paul would be so contradictory to say...
KJV Romans 3:31
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Was Paul saying, as so many Christians believe, "Do we make void the old covenant by faith? God forbid, we establish the old covenant". Anytime make sense of that? Because if you think the ten commandments law is the old covenant, then that last statement is what you would have us believe
Need to see where it came from, and its not from God or His Word...
"Sunday is founded, not on Scripture, but on tradition, and is distinctly a Catholic institution. As there is no Scripture for the transfer of the day of rest from the last to the first day of the week, Protestants ought to keep their Sabbath on Saturday and thus leave Catholics in full possession of Sunday." Catholic Record, Sept. 17, 1893.
"But the Protestant says: How can I receive the teachings of an apostate Church? How, we ask, have you managed to receive her teachings all your life, in direct opposition to your recognized teacher, the Bible, on the Sabbath question?" The Christian Sabbath (2nd ed.; Baltimore: The Catholic Mirror, 1893), p. 29, 30.
"If Protestants would follow the Bible, they should worship God on the Sabbath Day. In keeping Sunday they are following a law of the Catholic Church." Albert Smith (Chancellor of the Catholic Archdiocese of Baltimore), replying for the Cardinal in a letter of February 10, 1920.)
"You may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we never sanctify." Cardinal Gibbons (for many years head of the Catholic Church in America), The Faith of Our Fathers (92d ed., rev.; Baltimore: John Murphy Company), p.89.
"Reason and sense demand the acceptance of one or the other of these alternatives: either Protestantism and the keeping holy of Saturday or Catholicity and the keeping holy of Sunday. Compromise is impossible." James Cardinal Gibbons, Catholic Mirror, Dec. 23, 1893.
"Nowhere in the Bible do we find that Christ or the Apostles ordered that the Sabbath be changed from Saturday to Sunday. We have the commandment of God given to Moses to keep holy the Sabbath Day, that is the 7th day of the week, Saturday. Today most Christians keep Sunday because it has been revealed to us by the [Catholic] Church outside the Bible." "To Tell You the Truth," The Catholic Virginian, 22 (October 3, 1947), 9.
"Protestantism, in discarding the authority of the [Catholic] Church, has no good reason for its Sunday theory, and ought, logically, to keep Saturday as the Sabbath. ..." John Gilmary Shae, "The Observance of Sunday and Civil Laws for Its Enforcement," The American Catholic Quarterly Review, 8 (January, 1883), 152.
"If you follow the Bible alone there can be no question that you are obliged to keep Saturday holy, since that is the day especially prescribed by Almighty God to be kept holy to the Lord." F. G. Lentz, The Question Box (New York: Christian Press Association, 1900), p. 98.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Not from God?
Neither is wedding ceremonies or a requirement thereof to be married.
Neither is stopping polygamy or concubinage...did God want to continue that?
Neither is stopping slavery....did God want to continue that?
Soooo what is your point?
The bottom line, God did not die at the end of the first 65 years of Christianity. God did not die at the end of the Bible. The Bible only approach to Christian understanding leaves people in ignorance, if you want ignorance in your religious beliefs....that is your choice.
As far as Sunday as a Christian day of worship that is well establish with early Christian writings and history long before Emperor Constantine, the Ecumenical councils confirmed it but that is about it.
The council at Jerusalem made no requirement to observe the Jewish Saturday Sabbath. After the 1st century the Gentile-Christians took the helm of the Church. After the 1st century the Jewish-Christians are gone, no more Judisiers to push for the Jewish Saturday Sabbath. After the 1st century there is no discussion in Christian writings about the observing the Jewish Saturday Sabbath or rules. Or we would not be having this discussion. Emperor Constantine did not change anything to do with Christian weekly day of worship. Christ chose Sunday when He picked that day to resurrect.
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Brakelite
Well-Known Member
Wow. This seems somehow uncharacteristic of you GH. Or maybe it isn't, and I just haven't recognised the true you? But the above, just wow. The biggest mish-mash of confused and self serving excuses I've seen. You guys are unbelievable. You still persist in delineating the Sabbath as Jewish. Despite the fact that throughout scripture, the Sabbath is uniquely and unambiguously nominated as the "Sabbath of the Lord", "My holy day", and other similar phrases. Not once, from Genesis to Revelation, is it ever described as the Jewish Sabbath. Ever. With such a false, even fraudulent premise as the basis for your hatred of it, how can anyone take anything else you say of it seriously?
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
The Truth can be shocking! No apologies!
I am not the only one that calls it the Jewish Saturday Sabbath because that is what theologians call it. Maybe because only Jews were allowed in the Temple on the Sabbath. LOL
Hatred of what? The Jews....Wrong again! I grew up with the Jews and have Jewish friends and I have stood between Israel and her enemies. I love the Jews and Israel and would gladly die for them. But my ministry is about truth....The Johnny Appleseed of Truth
Be good and do good.
So anyway do you have a question in there anywhere or a challenge?
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
My only challenge, your response was to double down. Jewish Sabbath. As for theologians calling it the Jewish Saturday Sabbath, that does not make me quake in my boots. The Bible doesn't say it. The Bible says it belongs to God. "My holy day". That's enough for me.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
That is because you live in the Old Testament. Are ya going to sell your daughters as sex slaves?
Is that your motivation? Human trafficking is a big thing now a days. You could start a religion of fathers that sell their daughters as sex slaves out in the church parking lot. The Sabbath would be a good day to do it.
What would Christ think? Do you think He would approve of an auction of daughters?
These are written points to ponder and reckon with, whether in regards the Law or the Old Covenant.
In deed they are both Spiritual given and made by GOD with the people of Israel. It was the flesh that was weak to abide by them and at the same time be acceptable with GOD.
The New Covenant is the Lord's way given and made with the church in these last days. Therefore, in abiding they fulfill the requirement of the Law and uphold the Law at the same time.
Most Christians do not understand Bible doctrines and its interpretations!! And the Sabbath and John 3:16 are the two on top of the list because they are inter-related. As a matter of fact, everything in the Bible corelates.
In the Old Testament Sabbath God told Moses to stone to death the man who was found picking up sticks in Numbers 15. Why so harsh a punishment for just picking up sticks, perhaps he just needed them to keep his house warm? There must be something very significant in keeping the Sabbath rule that God has not told us about or did He??
I believe God did. Both have spiritual significance!! We just don't see it.
In the New Testament, God changed the Sabbath from the seventh day to the first day of the week (there are many Scripture verses to support this), but now the rule is to do "spiritual work" and the penalty of death when Sabbath is violated still remains the same, and will be required on judgement day.
I've given you something to work on. Search the Scripture if you can find the spiritual essence of the Seventh Day Sabbath and how it relates to John 3:16. You're smart enough. I'll give you the head-start.
Matthew 28:1 reads:
In the end of the Sabbaths as it began to dawn toward the first of the Sabbaths came....
Note the underlined words are the same (Strong's Concordance #4521) yet the second word Sabbath is read as "week.
To God Be The Glory
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
Not content with a mere straw man, you have chosen to erect a rival to Nebuchadnezzar's image on the plain of Dura.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
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