Is Temptation Evil?

[APAK]

And why would he think he does?

We have to review HOW the Word of God is taught and BY WHOM.

The teaching was first, BY obedience to the Law. The Law was given to the Hebrews, the Jews. And WORKS were highly important. Not only important but CALLED a SIN, if a work did not measure up to Glorifying God.

How do Christians learn the Word of God?
Hebrew texts, Word of God given them, they wrote.
Jewish texts, Word of God given them, they wrote.

And? Them believing in the coming of their Messiah was old ancient Hebrew teaching.

Their Messiah arriving on earth, was shockingly new....He did not come in a fashion expected. A carpenter's son, no wealth, no pomp, from some little unimportant town....HUH? This is the grand Messiah???

This is he who is going to give the Jews peace from their enemies? Pffft!!

Thus saying, always teaching something new, from the very beginning, was first familiar to a man with SOMETHING, then teach spiritual things, by analogy to what the man is already familiar with.

For example - God taught relationships. A man, a woman, children, sons, daughters, fathers, wives. Man, husband is the head of the household, tribe, family.

Moses taught - God is the father OF all households.

In the new testament Jewish men are teaching Jewish men something UNEXPECTED, in the Jewish Messiah.
He came to earth in the likeness as a man.
While ON earth, His Power was revealed...
(Thus the revealing is He who IS Gods Power, IS God, and why the Jews KNEW, Jesus was making Himself God, by the things Jesus claimed, and precisely why they wanted to KILL Him, for blasphemy).

So, the Jews are learning some new things about their Messiah. Some can accept, some can't.

Yet How Jews taught Jews, was still on familiar terms with the Jews being taught.

Aweeeee, hey brother, you did such and such,
You know according to the law, that is a SIN.
Repent, repent, repent...

But what about that? Was it a SIN? Sure, "according to the Law", whether saved or not, the Law did not become VOID, until one UNDERSTANDS, when the Law becomes VOID.

So WHEN does the law become VOID?
The LAW BECAME VOID, when Jesus FULFILLED IT..

However the LAW does NOT become VOID, until a man ACCEPTS Jesus fulfilled it.

IOW, Jews in the process of learning ABOUT Jesus, were learning, how to UNlearn subjection TO THE LAW. Was that instant?
No.

And Christians (broad term, ie those following Christ and believing Him....were learning and accepting His fulfillment of the LAW. What law? Remember, Gentiles, were not subject to the law to begin with. So how do they know what was fulfilled? Jesus fulfilled Laws revealed in Isaiah....So, to a Gentile, who's Isaiah?

So there is a whole mix of individuals to consider. Jews steeped in history of God, godly things, godly rules, laws, works, sin for disobedience to the law....
And Gentiles, going huh, what, who...
And Gentiles steeped in idolatry...
And newborns, children, steep in ...nothing.
Different appearences, cultures, customs, traditions, languages, status, jurisdictions, etc...

And no shortage of prophets, teachers, preacher, philosophers, anxious to shout out what others MUST believe.

Point being...none of this is a surprise to God.

Point being...STOP, THINK, Read, Hear, WHAT IS the BOTTOM LINE ONE THING DOES GOD want from ANYMAN?

TRUE BELIEF IN HIM.
BOTTOM LINE....TRUE BELIEF IN HIM.

And when a man SUBMITS unto God with True Belief in God and the Word of God....

WHAT? What is the first thing God does?
FORGIVE YOU.
FOR WHAT?
Uh...NOT BELIEVING IN HIM!
And?
For CORRUPTING your SOUL, that was IN YOUR DISBELIEVING SELF.

So what IS the ONE SIN you might think you could possibly commit, once saved and born again?

Uh....To again NOT BELIEVE in GOD, to again, Corrupt your soul.

And that is possible HOW? It isn't!
Why? Because the Power of God KEEPS such a man IN BELIEF FOREVER.

But what IF a man SAYS, he "WAS" saved, and "NOW" does not believe?

We know he was never saved in the first place....Because WE KNOW, Gods Power KEEPS all those HE TRANSFORMS.

SO what about all this teaching that, ONCE saved, and you do not do works to Glorify God....you are sinning.

Wait...Before you were saved, was it a SIN unto you, to not do good works?

If so, HOW so? Were you a Jew, violating Jewish Law? Were you subject to Jewish Law? No, and no.

You were born IN SIN, and men remain in SIN, separated from God, UNTIL, God transforms the man.

Once transformed, what SIN can you commit?

Cheat on your spouse? And? IS that a Sin against God? No. Why not? Because you acted against your spouse, not God.
Remember you were born against God, and became reconciled TO God, you are never again able to BE Against God.

IS that a Sin against your spouse? No.
Because there are provisions for you to ask another person for forgiveness, and you have provision to give forgiveness to other persons.

And men do not forgive sins. Only God forgives sins. Sin is Against God, and only He forgives what is Against Him.

So.... Well what is it?
It is a trespass against your spouse.
People can forgive trespasses.

And a "bonus" if you will. God shall forgive YOUR trespasses, IF you forgive those who trespass against you.

So WHY teach to not CHEAT, if it is not a sin?

Well, what Scripture teaches, along with HOW to do works that glorify God....it also teaches how to live in harmony with other people.

Cheating, lying, sneaking, blah, blah....are risks people routinely take....and oops are routinely caught in their deceptions....and oops....there goes the HARMONY...the strife, the grief, the financial burden, the wayward plans, the depression, the number of people involved who suffer, the loss of home, job, freedom.....all kinds of things result, and many times the hardship lasts for years....

Does such a thing; VOID your forgiveness of God, of sin against Him, your salvation, your quickened spirit? No.

Remember, God never promised men would be without hardships....and for certain, He knew men would bring it upon themselves...
And Priase God, He Did promise to be a Comforter to one going through a hardship.

And until men are maturing, they certainly WILL make dumb choices, and do dumb things, can certainly suffer the consequences of DIS-harmony, and afterward, feel ashamed and foolish. It's a life lesson. Feeling ashamed and foolish catches up with a man, that he hates that feeling and begins to figure out HOW to balance, make wise decisions, and maintain harmony in his life.....ah maturity!

Churches teach, preachers teach, men teach....repeatedly....MEN CONTINUE TO SIN, after becoming saved and born again....

Which is false. Men continue to trespass, and men are supposed to deal with their own trespasses and suffer the consequences of their trespasses and learn from their stupid mistakes and lean on God for Comfort and be praying for Gods Wisdom, because it is obvious men ARE WEAK when they are willing to take risks, and jeopardize their own harmony of themselves and loved ones.

Gods forgiveness is NOT temporary.
Gods salvation is NOT temporary.
Gods quickening is NOT temporary.
God making a man WHOLLY WHOLE and holy is not temporary.
God making a man "HIS" son, is not temporary.

1 John 3:9

God Bless,
Taken



I do not believe, a saved man commits sin.
I believe greater is He that is in you than he that is in the world.

A saved man is in the world, but no longer OF the world.



I already repented TO GOD and HE forgave me....He did not Forgive me and say....good luck until next time....He forgave me with His word. I do not believe there is a TIME limit on His Word. He forgave. I'm forgiven.

What is do forward, is not a sin.
My effort is to not trespass against others...
If I do, I have a recourse, Scripturally taught.
If I do works to glorify Gods Name, I shall be rewarded BY God.
If I do not works to glorify Gods Name.....whoops, I shall be called the Least in the Kingdom of Heaven.



Agree, taught precepts, that benefit us...but do not Give or Void Salvation.



Agree with that.



If you are speaking of RE-REPENTING...asking God again for forgiveness....over and over....I disagree.

I trust His Forgiveness is True. Period.
I do not ask for what He has already given me. Now I ask for what I do not have....
His Wisdom, His Understanding, His Knowledge.....which is infinite....and thus so is my asking.



Agree



Your poetic words, lovely, and I agree.

[QUOTEForgive my analogy and metaphors..I used to be an astronautical engineer of sorts, years ago, ..I love the heavens, it is a masterpiece of our creator.

No need for forgive, all good. And a bit of background, interesting, thanks for sharing.



Thank you,
God Bless,
Taken[/QUOTE]

Taken: I actually like your review here - keep it up! This is edifying and also a learning session for me. I do so eagerly want to harmonize what my heart says in congruence with my mind and thinking.

One of my dear friends back in Texas, became a Lutheran minister years back....we had a short phone conversation recently.....a few months back...we were speaking on repentance....He startled me when he said that repentance for a believer is necessary for a believer, IF NECESSARY, and by implication not for God. I should have asked him exactly what he meant by it...I didn't....after a few days of mediation and in scripture I realized that repentance is really not necessary for God. We already committed our lives to God...If God had us as a robot we would never repent again....He already knows us....

Turning from sin then is not repentance for salvation, as for a new believer, but it does result in a genuine, faith-based repentance towards the Lord Jesus Christ.

Bless you,

APAK

 

[bbyrd009]

So WHEN does the law become VOID? - Google Search

31Do we then make law void through faith? God forbid: nay, we establish law.

1What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase?

heck no, why do that, when you can just pay a preacher to assure you that you are one of "we," who cannot sin? lol, i mean pls already

no offense bro, sorry, but not one jot or tittle is not in there for fun ok
if you are confused about keeping the law, just go get in your car and do double the speed limit, and tell us what the cop said when you told him that Jesus said it was ok

 

[Taken]

hmm, and arg
lol

i understand the intent , but this will be hard to reconcile with the symbology in Scripture imo
earth is our domain, where we are to manifest and live.
even if that includes the entire physical plane, which who knows, right?
if aliens exist, we are given earth, i guess, and if they don't we get the whole physical plane (my current best guess)

runs counter to my understanding of "joining two sticks" too, not that that means much to anyone else i guess

Agree Earth was created for mankinds habitat.

And out of the Earth was a man created out of his habit.

Yet the soul is from Gods Breath.
And the quickened sprit of man is from Gods Spirit.

Those things do not come out of a created earth.

Those things were imparted into the man, and depart the man, upon a mans physical death.

Those things (living soul and living spirit) of man, depart the dead body, go to God in heaven and wait, (well for a saved man, speaking thereof).....waiting for the day their body becomes glorified.

So yes, earth is mans habitat, but his living soul, and living spirit, came from elsewhere and goes elsewhere to wait.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

No need for forgive, all good. And a bit of background, interesting, thanks for sharing.



Thank you,
God Bless,
Taken

Taken: I actually like your review here - keep it up! This is edifying and also a learning session for me. I do so eagerly want to harmonize what my heart says in congruence with my mind and thinking.

One of my dear friends back in Texas, became a Lutheran minister years back....we had a short phone conversation recently.....a few months back...we were speaking on repentance....He startled me when he said that repentance for a believer is necessary for a believer, IF NECESSARY, and by implication not for God. I should have asked him exactly what he meant by it...I didn't....after a few days of mediation and in scripture I realized that repentance is really not necessary for God. We already committed our lives to God...If God had us as a robot we would never repent again....He already knows us....

Turning from sin then is not repentance for salvation, as for a new believer, but it does result in a genuine, faith-based repentance towards the Lord Jesus Christ.

Bless you,

APAK[/QUOTE]

U R Welcome. You appear keen and eager, thus accepting to hearing and knowledgeable to go verify and ask God.

Not all are eager to hear, consider, go verify, ask God....when arguing and debating is so much more fun...to pin a win button on...EH!

The Prize....the gift, the blessing, the reward....is gaining the WHOLENESS that only God can provide. Why some want to debate that WHOLENESS, is well...dependent upon a man, befuddles me. He has WHOLLY forgiven me......and I ask no more for what He has WHOLLY given me.

How would you feel, if you Forgave your spouse for something, and then everyday, she would again and again ask you for forgiveness of the same thing? YAWN.

God forgave me of ALL of my sins...so to ask over and over, oh Lord forgive me of this sin, and that sin, and blah, blah....basically I am saying oh Lord, your forgiveness failed, your Word had a time limit dependent upon me.

Yipes....is that how His Supreme Power works?
I say no way.

And then there is that Crucifixion point.
A body accounted as Dead.
How does a Dead body commit sin?

I have taught young deaf kids, who get the big picture, quicker than a hearing adult.

I'm guessing the adult is not really hearing, but rather, recollecting all their stupid decisions and wondering how can these things all be forgiven and covered and remembered no more. And what about tomorrow, when I do something else that is dumb. Well, suffer the consequences!!
Keep reading the Lords precepts....and get to getting on asking God for what you don't have....as I mentioned before.

Shall you ask God for His Wisdom, His Strength and He not hear? Or He give you instead an ear of corn?

Believe, receive, keep learning and ask....
It's pretty simple.
The same as I taught my own little kids...from toddlers....as well as the their daily rules, on each of their five fingers of what they had to do every day.
Eat, Sleep, Work, Play, Pray.

They could skip any one of those things on any one day.....but their consequence was they had to skip another thing the next day.

Of course they all challenged it once, and didn't like skipping eating, or sleeping (like they thought they wouldn't mind), or playing... But kids are quick learners, and don't require but a few rules they can learn, remember and know exactly what they mean and the consequence, and that the consequence will be carried out.

The Big Picture of Transforming from natural to spiritual is not that complicated either.

We have the part to go and hear....God does all the rest of the Big Work.

We have ONE Service that is satisfactory to God....Give our body's as a living and holy sacrifice unto God.

We have Basically ONE rule...Love everyone, God above all things.

And even that; We accomplish BY Gods Power within us.

Speak, Teach, Preach.....not for everyone...but those it is for....Learn Gods Word, and Precepts First....that what one speaks on behalf of the Lord, IS ACCORDING TO THE Lord, and not according to some cool logical conclusion we heard a philosopher say, or thought it made sense.

God does not require our Carnal Minds to drum up His already established precepts.

Anyway, Gods great blessing and good will, upon you and yours.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[bbyrd009]

So yes, earth is mans habitat, but his living soul, and living spirit, came from elsewhere and goes elsewhere to wait.

so you say, but Scripture tells us that today is the only day we need to concern ourselves with, in many places. So i suggest that this waiting you are positing as some future event, that happens after death, can be understood differently, and i would at least keep an open mind there. There is nothing new under the sun
Samuel plainly asked "Who disturbs my rest?" not "Who disturbs my anticipation?"

we do not know what the future holds, regardless of anyone's beliefs on the matter

 

[bbyrd009]

So WHEN does the law become VOID? - Google Search

31Do we then make law void through faith? God forbid: nay, we establish law.

1What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase?

heck no, why do that, when you can just pay a preacher to assure you that you are one of "we," who cannot sin? lol, i mean pls already

no offense bro, sorry, but not one jot or tittle is not in there for fun ok
if you are confused about keeping the law, just go get in your car and do double the speed limit, and tell us what the cop said when you told him that Jesus said it was ok

 

[Taken]

so you say, but Scripture tells us that today is the only day we need to concern ourselves with, in many places. So i suggest that this waiting you are positing as some future event, that happens after death, can be understood differently, and i would at least keep an open mind there. There is nothing new under the sun
Samuel plainly asked "Who disturbs my rest?" not "Who disturbs my anticipation?"

Not sure how differently you think an imparted soul, and imparted spirit, leaves a dead body.

A mans soul and born again spirit did not come from the dust, nor was sentenced to return to the dust.

we do not know what the future holds, regardless of anyone's beliefs on the matter

Perhaps you don't, but I do.
And about Samuel....he was early on in the OT.....the Lord revealed / uncovered things that were kept Secret from men in the OT.

Deut 29:29
Judg 13:18
Matt 13:35
Mark 4:22
Luke 8:17
Rom 16:25

God Bless,
Taken

 

[bbyrd009]

Perhaps you don't, but I do.

ya, ok, just don't forget God is responsible for strong delusions too ok

1So remember your Creator in the days of your youth:

Before the days of adversity come,

and the years approach when you will say,a

“I have no delight in them”;

2before the sun and the light are darkened,b

and the moon and the stars,

and the clouds return afterc the rain;

3on the day when the guardians of the house tremble,

and the strong men stoop,

the women who grind cease because they are few,

and the ones who watch through the windows see dimly,d

4the doors at the street are shut

while the sound of the mill fades;e

when one rises at the sound of a bird,

and all the daughters of song grow faint.

5Also, they are afraid of heights and dangers on the road;

the almond tree blossoms,

the grasshopper loses its spring,f

and the caper berry has no effect;

for man is headed to his eternal home,g

and mourners will walk around in the street;h

 

[bbyrd009]

6before the silver cord is snapped,i

and the gold bowl is broken,j

and the jar is shattered at the spring,

and the wheel is broken into the well;

7and the dust returns to the earth as it once was,

and the spirit returns to God who gave it.k

8“Absolute futility,” says the Teacher. “Everything is futile.”l

 

[bbyrd009]

"Us and them"

 

[APAK]

Taken: I actually like your review here - keep it up! This is edifying and also a learning session for me. I do so eagerly want to harmonize what my heart says in congruence with my mind and thinking.

One of my dear friends back in Texas, became a Lutheran minister years back....we had a short phone conversation recently.....a few months back...we were speaking on repentance....He startled me when he said that repentance for a believer is necessary for a believer, IF NECESSARY, and by implication not for God. I should have asked him exactly what he meant by it...I didn't....after a few days of mediation and in scripture I realized that repentance is really not necessary for God. We already committed our lives to God...If God had us as a robot we would never repent again....He already knows us....

Turning from sin then is not repentance for salvation, as for a new believer, but it does result in a genuine, faith-based repentance towards the Lord Jesus Christ.

Bless you,

APAK

U R Welcome. You appear keen and eager, thus accepting to hearing and knowledgeable to go verify and ask God.

Not all are eager to hear, consider, go verify, ask God....when arguing and debating is so much more fun...to pin a win button on...EH!

The Prize....the gift, the blessing, the reward....is gaining the WHOLENESS that only God can provide. Why some want to debate that WHOLENESS, is well...dependent upon a man, befuddles me. He has WHOLLY forgiven me......and I ask no more for what He has WHOLLY given me.

How would you feel, if you Forgave your spouse for something, and then everyday, she would again and again ask you for forgiveness of the same thing? YAWN.

God forgave me of ALL of my sins...so to ask over and over, oh Lord forgive me of this sin, and that sin, and blah, blah....basically I am saying oh Lord, your forgiveness failed, your Word had a time limit dependent upon me.

Yipes....is that how His Supreme Power works?
I say no way.

And then there is that Crucifixion point.
A body accounted as Dead.
How does a Dead body commit sin?

I have taught young deaf kids, who get the big picture, quicker than a hearing adult.

I'm guessing the adult is not really hearing, but rather, recollecting all their stupid decisions and wondering how can these things all be forgiven and covered and remembered no more. And what about tomorrow, when I do something else that is dumb. Well, suffer the consequences!!
Keep reading the Lords precepts....and get to getting on asking God for what you don't have....as I mentioned before.

Shall you ask God for His Wisdom, His Strength and He not hear? Or He give you instead an ear of corn?

Believe, receive, keep learning and ask....
It's pretty simple.
The same as I taught my own little kids...from toddlers....as well as the their daily rules, on each of their five fingers of what they had to do every day.
Eat, Sleep, Work, Play, Pray.

They could skip any one of those things on any one day.....but their consequence was they had to skip another thing the next day.

Of course they all challenged it once, and didn't like skipping eating, or sleeping (like they thought they wouldn't mind), or playing... But kids are quick learners, and don't require but a few rules they can learn, remember and know exactly what they mean and the consequence, and that the consequence will be carried out.

The Big Picture of Transforming from natural to spiritual is not that complicated either.

We have the part to go and hear....God does all the rest of the Big Work.

We have ONE Service that is satisfactory to God....Give our body's as a living and holy sacrifice unto God.

We have Basically ONE rule...Love everyone, God above all things.

And even that; We accomplish BY Gods Power within us.

Speak, Teach, Preach.....not for everyone...but those it is for....Learn Gods Word, and Precepts First....that what one speaks on behalf of the Lord, IS ACCORDING TO THE Lord, and not according to some cool logical conclusion we heard a philosopher say, or thought it made sense.

God does not require our Carnal Minds to drum up His already established precepts.

Anyway, Gods great blessing and good will, upon you and yours.

God Bless,
Taken[/QUOTE]

Taken: you said " How would you feel, if you Forgave your spouse for something, and then everyday, she would again and again ask you for forgiveness of the same thing? YAWN.

God forgave me of ALL of my sins...so to ask over and over, oh Lord forgive me of this sin, and that sin, and blah, blah....basically I am saying oh Lord, your forgiveness failed, your Word had a time limit dependent upon me."

This actually did happen to me, although in a slightly different way.

When I wrote to backlite this am, I did cryptically tell him my 'fall.' By the way it all turned out great in the end.

Now when I realized at the end of this mind-heart wrenching episode, that true love comes from God and anything short of this was false.

I really felt, at all times, throughout this ordeal , when I tries to play 'god,' God, our Father was always there, and he loved me and never denied me, even when I felt like I was on an ocean, alone, in a row boat will no land is sight.

Beside praying to God for the error(s) I caused my family and others, I did want my spouse to REALLY understand my heart and mind, and therefore wanted her forgiveness many times.....she even said that God forgave as she forgave me...she did not want me to continue with it.

You know what made me stop...true event....The spirit inside me, said ..."..(my name), you are already forgiven." It was a the spirit speaking to me. It blew my mind.

It's uncanny you chose to speak on this in your post.

God Bless,

APAK​

 

[Taken]

Taken: you said " How would you feel, if you Forgave your spouse for something, and then everyday, she would again and again ask you for forgiveness of the same thing? YAWN.

God forgave me of ALL of my sins...so to ask over and over, oh Lord forgive me of this sin, and that sin, and blah, blah....basically I am saying oh Lord, your forgiveness failed, your Word had a time limit dependent upon me."

This actually did happen to me, although in a slightly different way.

When I wrote to backlite this am, I did cryptically tell him my 'fall.' By the way it all turned out great in the end.

Now when I realized at the end of this mind-heart wrenching episode, that true love comes from God and anything short of this was false.

I really felt, at all times, throughout this ordeal , when I tries to play 'god,' God, our Father was always there, and he loved me and never denied me, even when I felt like I was on an ocean, alone, in a row boat will no land is sight.

Beside praying to God for the error(s) I caused my family and others, I did want my spouse to REALLY understand my heart and mind, and therefore wanted her forgiveness many times.....she even said that God forgave as she forgave me...she did not want me to continue with it.

You know what made me stop...true event....The spirit inside me, said ..."..(my name), you are already forgiven." It was a the spirit speaking to me. It blew my mind.

It's uncanny you chose to speak on this in your post.

God Bless,

APAK​

APAK ~ Awesome testimony, love it! Almost chilling, in a good way. I do not hear audibly His voice, but can't explain how I do hear.
Sometime I will have to ask deaf people if they have ever experienced audibly hearing His voice. Had never thought to ask, until now.

Like speaking to you today on this subject...
Why? IDK. But I'll give the credit to the Lord.

Mmm, mmm, mmm, just reading several times your testimony....awesome!!

God Bless,
Taken

 

[bbyrd009]

And about Samuel....he was early on in the OT.....the Lord revealed / uncovered things that were kept Secret from men in the OT.

lol, ok, go with that then, secrets

Perhaps you don't, but I do.

understand the prob with asserting that you know something, "i believe _____,"
is mostly that you will not recognize any new data that leads to a better truth
he who says he knows anything does not know

 

[bbyrd009]

Perhaps you don't, but I do.[/QUOTE]but really the most disturbing part, for you, should be that you are violating Scripture, and that you don't want to even discuss it, see, this subject is not even open for discussion in your mind, right? You think you know, and God Himself could not change your mind, kinda thing?

i would put this that you have entered the Holy of Holies, and you are sitting in the Seat, ok, fwiw
it's where logical thinkers end up, to put it simply, or it can be reflected on from other perspectives, as an inevitable result of pursuing the Hegelian Dialectic--if a winner and a loser are assumed, natch one wants to be the winner--or it can be seen from a perspective of Determinism; or even Duality

 

[Taken]

Perhaps you don't, but I do.

but really the most disturbing part, for you, should be that you are violating Scripture, and that you don't want to even discuss it, see, this subject is not even open for discussion in your mind, right? You think you know, and God Himself could not change your mind, kinda thing?[/QUOTE]

If you want to discuss MINDFUL things, that's fine, until the subject matter is SPIRITUAL things.

i would put this that you have entered the Holy of Holies,

BINGO!! Jesus opened the Holy of Holies, and I elected to Enter!

and you are sitting in the Seat,

.

I am already granted to sit in the Seat; but that is for a time after the manifestation of my glorified body.

ok, fwiw
it's where logical thinkers end up, to put it simply, or it can be reflected on from other perspectives, as an inevitable result of pursuing the Hegelian Dialectic--if a winner and a loser are assumed, natch one wants to be the winner--or it can be seen from a perspective of Determinism; or even Duality

People Void of a Quickened spirit love to mindfully discuss and debate scripture according to what makes sense in their logical minds.

However the understanding of Spiritual things is not based the the senses and logical understanding of mens minds. They are simply based on Truth according to Gods Truth and Gods Understanding.

And precisely why, a Scriptural debate fostered between Mindful Logic and Gods Truth always ends in a disagreement.
Gods Truth will always prevail.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[bbyrd009]

If you want to discuss MINDFUL things, that's fine, until the subject matter is SPIRITUAL things.

um, and then what?
Sorry, not quite getting your point here (this coffee is hella weak lol)

However the understanding of Spiritual things is not based the the senses and logical understanding of mens minds. They are simply based on Truth according to Gods Truth and Gods Understanding.

And precisely why, a Scriptural debate fostered between Mindful Logic and Gods Truth always ends in a disagreement.
Gods Truth will always prevail.

but this will manifest differently than insisting that you know anything, as strange as that seems at first blush. I understand that we even have vv assuring us that we can know, ok; i'm not meaning to discount blessed assurance here.

a big point is to understand that if anyone else has a position considered "opposing" that can be justified, even to them, saying that you know a thing makes you their enemy in a sense, and ultimately the enemy of truth, unless you can prove them wrong.

and it doesn't even matter if there is any truth in them or not; the point is that if there was, would you be open to it

 

[Taken]

um, and then what?

The two are on the same topic.

Sorry, not quite getting your point here (this coffee is hella weak lol)

Talking about baseball is not Spiritual.
Talking about Hotdog vs Hamburger is not Spiritual.

Talking about receiving a Spiritual Gift from the Lord is Spiritual.

but this will manifest differently than insisting that you know anything, as strange as that seems at first blush.

You found it amusing, that things were kept secret from OT men. OT, is about the beginning of mans existence. They were as immature, in knowledge, experience and without history as a newborn person. Just as babies and young adults do not have a need to know everything, or understand everything, OT men were the same. Just like little kids are given umpteen rules, so also were the OT men. Follow along, do as you are told, and understanding will come later.
Tee hee, a funny concept, ;(

Scripture spoke to this point of secrecy, straight out, and I gave to a few links to the Scripture....but still with you it was funny?

I understand that we even have vv assuring us that we can know, ok; i'm not meaning to discount blessed assurance here.

No clue what vv is.
I know Scripture I learn from reading.
What is not explained in Scripture and I want to know, I ask the Authority of His own Word; ie; the Lord God Almighty Himself.
What He reveals to me, I TRUST.
So when I say I KNOW, it is based on what I know I have read and I have studied and what I have asked for the Understanding thereof, of the One I Trust, ie the Lord God Almighty Himself.

If that is not suitable to you...I do not consider what you think is suitable for me, or the fellowship that is exclusively between the Lord and myself.

a big point is to understand that if anyone else has a position considered "opposing" that can be justified, even to them, saying that you know a thing makes you their enemy in a sense, and ultimately the enemy of truth, unless you can prove them wrong.

I have no obligation to prove anyone wrong.
I have a right to speak the truth.
I can declare my Spiritual belief, and another can challenge my belief, and I can show which scripture supports my Spiritual belief...
Period.

But, more than not, people attempt to challenge Spiritual beliefs with Mindful logical conclusions, or scriptures that do not apply to me, which are but laughable to me.

And as for them making me their enemy ~ doesn't affect me, much more than a bothersome gnat.

and it doesn't even matter if there is any truth in them or not; the point is that if there was, would you be open to it

Discussing Spiritual things with a person attempting to invoke mindful logic is more like an interesting revealing of how many are ignorant of the truth. It is interesting for a short while to hear someone with Two mouths speaking opposites and trying to convince others the opposites are the same...until the usual happens which is deflection, usually to namecalling, then the interest is lost and the bothersome gnat syndrome is revealed.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[bbyrd009]

You found it amusing, that things were kept secret from OT men.

no, i found it heretical, wadr. Secrets are being misconstrued here. Little children understand what adults have forgotten. There were no secrets such as are being posited in that pov, imo

Talking about receiving a Spiritual Gift from the Lord is Spiritual.

well, so is talking about ingesting tares

No clue what vv is.

"verses," sry

What He reveals to me, I TRUST.

and i'm not saying don't trust, ok, bam trust that that is the truth as you understand it at the time, no problem. Trust also that you have not learned everything there is to know about it, imo

trust that what is revealed to you at the time was revealed to you bc that is what you were prepared to accept as "the truth"--the same way we tell little kids that babies come from storks or whatever--and that after you have assimilated a little here, a little there some further truth on the original matter might then be imparted--assuming you have not made your mind up that you have all the truth on the matter. speaking generally.

If that is not suitable to you...I do not consider what you think is suitable for me, or the fellowship that is exclusively between the Lord and myself.

I have no obligation to prove anyone wrong.

you kind of do, for yourself, if the alt is denial, imo

the point there was not "prove to the other guy that they are wrong," sorry if i gave that impression

scriptures that do not apply to me

hmm

I have a right to speak the truth.

you have the right to strong delusions, too, same as me
tares are psychoactive, still sold today for their effects

And as for them making me their enemy

i didn't say that; i said that we make ourselves the enemy of truth, when we state that we know anything

It is interesting for a short while to hear someone with Two mouths speaking opposites and trying to convince others the opposites are the same...until the usual happens which is deflection, usually to namecalling, then the interest is lost and the bothersome gnat syndrome is revealed.

ah, indeed.

 

[Taken]

no, i found it heretical, wadr. Secrets are being misconstrued here. Little children understand what adults have forgotten.

Something forgotten was not secret to them.

Something secret was not revealed, and THEN revealed. And gave you the Scripture reference.

and i'm not saying don't trust, ok, bam trust that that is the truth as you understand it at the time, no problem. Trust also that you have not learned everything there is to know about it, imo

Didn't say I know everything.
Did say, I trust the Understanding of a truth, God reveals to me.

trust that what is revealed to you at the time was revealed to you bc that is what you were prepared to accept as "the truth"--

Applicable to natural things, not Spiritual things.

the same way we tell little kids that babies come from storks or whatever--and that after you have assimilated a little here, a little there some further truth on the original matter might then be imparted--assuming you have not made your mind up that you have all the truth on the matter. speaking generally.

Men have their own natural truths, and get what you are saying. However Spiritual truth does not waver. More may be revealed, but it does not change a previous truth, as it does with the natural mind of men.

you have the right to strong delusions, too, same as me

The "right" to?

i said that we make ourselves the enemy of truth, when we state that we know anything

Weird. I've been pretty clear, I trust the Scripture is TRUTH. Scriptural truth is the truth I trust for my own truth.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[bbyrd009]

And gave you the Scripture reference.

ah, which? i went back about ten posts, couldn't pick it out, sry

Applicable to natural things, not Spiritual things.

lol, ok.

Line upon line, here a little, there a little only applies to the natural then

However Spiritual truth does not waver. More may be revealed, but it does not change a previous truth, as it does with the natural mind of men.

ok, so you say, yes. I don't believe that, but i understand why that is so widely believed at least. You might interpret the spiritual truth in these two vv;

"don't work for food."
"provide for your family."