Is Temptation Evil?

[bbyrd009]

Weird. I've been pretty clear, I trust the Scripture is TRUTH. Scriptural truth is the truth I trust for my own truth.

yet you cannot state a single uncontested spiritual truth from Scripture; at least not that i am aware of.

And again, this is arguable, depending upon your def of "truth" mostly i guess, but no one seems to want to examine this too closely either

 

[Taken]

ah, which? i went back about ten posts, couldn't pick it out, sry

lol, ok.

Line upon line, here a little, there a little only applies to the natural then
ok, so you say, yes. I don't believe that, but i understand why that is so widely believed at least. You might interpret the spiritual truth in these two vv;

"don't work for food."
"provide for your family."

Matt 13:35
....I will open my mouth in parables:

I will utter things which have bee kept SECRET from the foundation of the world.

Here a little, there a little applies the natural? Um ya.

Application to the Spiritual is endless, for one who continues seeking.

How did you teach your own children; born one day and and that day teach them everything you know?

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

yet you cannot state a single uncontested spiritual truth from Scripture; at least not that i am aware of.

I'm sure every Spiritual Truth has been contested. Doesn't affect me, only them.

I trust to believe Scripture is True.

Others can not trust to believe Scripture is True, and somehow want to make an arguement their little hunk of grey matter can out smart the one that created that little hunk of grey matter.

And again, this is arguable, depending upon your def of "truth" mostly i guess, but no one seems to want to examine this too closely either

Already have said. Scripture. The Word of God.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[bbyrd009]

I'm sure every Spiritual Truth has been contested. Doesn't affect me, only them.

well, this ends up just being a way to avoid the issue though. When you decide that the "truth" is that Paul said "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord," in such a way as to infer that Paul craved death in order to "be with Jesus" in some way that he currently lacked, and the premise cannot even be argued, it affects you, doesn't it?

I trust to believe Scripture is True.

easily becomes "the interpretation of this particular verse i am giving is true, therefore you should not contest my truth"

 

[bbyrd009]

Others can not trust to believe Scripture is True, and somehow want to make an arguement their little hunk of grey matter can out smart the one that created that little hunk of grey matter.

sure, that can be going on, but "seven spirits worse" tells us that what happens seven times more often is that someone will "get religion," and appropriate the parts of Scripture they like, and ignore the rest, i guess. Ergo "trust to believe Scripture is true" becomes a subjective statement, even though it appears objective.

Already have said. Scripture. The Word of God.

ha well, which One? Scripture, or Word?

 

[bbyrd009]

Matt 13:35
....I will open my mouth in parables:

I will utter things which have bee kept SECRET from the foundation of the world.

ok, you are using this to suggest that Jesus said things that Enoch or someone could not possibly have known, seems like, when the "secret" is still secret today imo, to those who have not yet learned it as adults; namely, to become like little children, say. "I will open My mouth in parables" is OT after all, right; usually interpreted as a prophecy of Christ i guess

 

[bbyrd009]

interesting to me that i am arguing nothing new under the sun here/now with you,
and greater things will you do with someone else on another thread, hmm

 

[Taken]

well, this ends up just being a way to avoid the issue though. When you decide that the "truth" is that Paul said "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord," in such a way as to infer that Paul craved death in order to "be with Jesus" in some way that he currently lacked, and the premise cannot even be argued, it affects you, doesn't it?

easily becomes "the interpretation of this particular verse i am giving is true, therefore you should not contest my truth"

I can agree with Scripture and at the same time agree or disagree with your interpretation of the truth. Doesn't mean I am challenging a contest with you. Doesn't mean I am asking you to explain how you arrived at your conclusion.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

sure, that can be going on, but "seven spirits worse" tells us that what happens seven times more often is that someone will "get religion," and appropriate the parts of Scripture they like, and ignore the rest, i guess. Ergo "trust to believe Scripture is true" becomes a subjective statement, even though it appears objective.

I believe a man who is reading AND picking and choosing what to believe, AND continues this method, puts himself in jeopardy of not being able to RECEIVE salvation.

ha well, which One? Scripture, or Word?

Both. The world was established with the Lords Word. His Word being written was for the benefit of mankind.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

ok, you are using this to suggest that Jesus said things that Enoch or someone could not possibly have known, seems like, when the "secret" is still secret today imo, to those who have not yet learned it as adults; namely, to become like little children, say. "I will open My mouth in parables" is OT after all, right; usually interpreted as a prophecy of Christ i guess

Much Knowledge was revealed to OT men.
Some things were foretold AND came to pass before the eyes of OT men.

When Jesus arrived more Knowledge was revealed to NT men.

IOW, what had been Kept Secret FROM OT men was revealed to NT men.

Some things OT men had Knowledge of, they did not SEE it come to pass.

Some things OT men had Knowledge of, came to pass before the eyes of NT men.

IOW, what had been Kept Secret from OT men, was revealed to NT men.

As Scripture teaches;
Jesus is the One WHO fulfilled Scripture, fulfilled the Word of God, fulfilled what was Spoken to OT men (they did not see come to pass) .... NT men DID SEE, what was anticipated TO come to pass).

Jesus speaking IN PARABLES, was precisely the method of speech, the OT foretold, the ONE who would come and REVEAL MORE Knowledge, WOULD SPEAK IN PARABLES.

Every teaching of Jesus's Doctrine was BY Him speaking in Parables.

Men Teach Parables are "made up stories, to make a truthful point".

Scripture Teaches Jesus "IS" the TRUTH. He utters NOTHING that is NOT TRUTH.

So when it was Announced Jesus would be Speaking.....curious crowds gathered to hear Him.

With ONE speech....He Spoke to the Entire Crowd.

Now - turn to the Crowd...."their reactions" to Jesus' Speaking.

All Listening to these Parables.

Some listening (then, just like today)....
In AWE ~ believing His Every Word.

Some listening (then, just like today)....
In DOUBT ~ believing He is just a STORY TELLER trying to pass Himself off as a Prophet of God...and Eh....walking away, as Jesus is nothing special, but just another story teller.

Some listening (then, just like today)....
Who claim they WANT to BELIEVE in Jesus ~ claim they DO BELIEVE in Jesus....BUT...
His "parables" are JUST NOT TRUE Stories...
But individuals should get a POINT that is TRUE. (Ie Unitarians).

Fact IS, it does not matter the MANNER of Speech Jesus Spoke....parables, riddles, poems, limericks......If one Believes He IS THE TRUTH...EVERY WORD out of His Mouth; IS the TRUTH.

And Words out of His mouth, revealed Knowledge not Before Known, which is ONE of the Express things, He came to Earth TO DO.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[bbyrd009]

are we even having a convo here? i can no longer tell

 

[Taken]

are we even having a convo here? i can no longer tell

Funny.
God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

So WHEN does the law become VOID? - Google Search

31Do we then make law void through faith? God forbid: nay, we establish law.

1What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase?

heck no, why do that, when you can just pay a preacher to assure you that you are one of "we," who cannot sin? lol, i mean pls already

no offense bro, sorry, but not one jot or tittle is not in there for fun ok
if you are confused about keeping the law, just go get in your car and do double the speed limit, and tell us what the cop said when you told him that Jesus said it was ok

WHEN does a law become VOID?

You first have to know WHEN a law IS applicable; and TO WHOM.

WHEN did Mosiac Law APPLY TO a Gentile?
It didn't. So a Mosiac Law can not become VOID to a Gentile.

WHEN prophetic laws ARE FULFILLED, they become VOID.

Now it becomes a bit more complicated ~
Because the LAW giver "IS" the Lord.
And the LAW receiver "IS" people.
However the LAW giver "FULFILLED" prophetic Laws.

Jesus Fulfilled prophetic Laws, ONCE.
He has NO requirement to FULFILL prophetic Laws AGAIN.

But what about the RECEIVER of the LAW?
They ALSO as "INDIVIDUALS" have a part in Prophetic Laws to Fulfill.

NT men, WHO were subject TO Mosiac Law; were learning about Jesus....
Individually they had to DECIDE, IF, they believed Jesus, was their CHRIST MESSIAH, and actually Fuliflling THEIR prophetic Laws.

Some DID, Some DIDN'T.
Thus now it becomes more complicated, per INDIVIDUALS, (ie. Jews) UNDER Mosiac Law.

1) IS this Jesus, their Christ Messiah?
2) DID He fulfill Prophetic Laws?
3) DO Other NON-prophetic Laws still Apply?

AND...DOES every individual Jew, come to the SAME conclusion?

Now MORE complication ~ grafting in the Gentiles.

1) Were they UNDER Mosaic Law? No.
2) Do individual Gentiles believe this Jesus is the Jewish Christ Messiah?
Some did, Some didn't, Some do, Some don't.

So now you have The LAW, WHAT LAW, (Mosaic Law) WHO WAS, WHO IS, subject to those LAW, and which INDIVIDUALS believe;
Jesus is the Jewish Christ Messiah.
Jesus fulfilled Prophetic Laws.
Who, Jew or Gentile Believe this.

And, Jews WHO DO BELIEVE in Jesus,
AND, Believe He fulfilled Prophetic Laws, if they ALSO do or do not "individually" believe
NOT prophetic Laws STILL APPLY to THEM.

( And on the broad scale, Many Jews WHO DO believe IN JESUS, and that He fulfilled Prophetic Laws....DO ALSO BELIEVE, NON-prophetic Laws, STILL APPLY).

And the Gentile? They are an individual mix also. Followers of Jesus' teachings, and believing He IS the Jewish Christ Messiah; DO Believe "HE" fulfilled prophetic Jewish Law....
(And Identify themselves as Christians).

AND? On a BROAD SCALE, ALSO "adopt", a pick and choose, if you will, portions of JEWISH (non-prophetic laws), regularly taught, CHRISTIANS, "are SUBJECT TO".

And another complication ~
Jewish Laws - Are NOT ONLY Directions, and Commands.
Jewish Laws ALSO have a book of CURSES, that began with the Hebrews, and the appointed Priests, so Appointed by God, with Aaron (Moses' brother) being the first, and was to carry on down through Aaron's sons.

Thus being Moses wrote (or his scribes doing the actual writing of what Moses said) the Laws for direction and commands.

And Aaron ( or his scribes ), writing the Curses. The Curses, were basically, the Violation of the Law, (called a SIN), and the PUNISHMENT for the Violation.
(Basically a Book of PENAL laws).

Moses' writing was basically FOR the People to hear and teach his people, family, people who were of his clan.

Aarons' writing was basically FOR the Priests to have, as their guide for Punishments to be handed down BY the Priests.
(As the Priests (before sheriffs, so to speak), were the settlers of disputes of law violaters).

So the complication of Christians, believing Christ Jesus fulfilling prophetic Laws, but ADOPTING, "other" Jewish Laws....particularly "PENAL" law.....

Christians go about teaching, IF a man does not DO "such and such"; He has VIOLATED
"THE LAW", and is thus "COMMITING a VIOLATION, called a SIN".

And the JEWS do the SAME.
So what IS A JEW supposed to DO, when he VIOLATES a JEWISH LAW?
ASK the Lord for FORGIVENESS.

AND what IS a Christian TAUGHT TO DO, when "THEY" violate a Jewish PENAL LAW?
ASK the Lord for FORGIVENESS.

And WHAT did Jesus Teach?
"IF" "anyone", Jew or Gentile, ACCEPTS thee
Lord God Almighty....which is to SAY...
Accepts God, and His Word...

(As Jesus taught, Heartfully BELIEVE in Him, AND the One who Sent Him)...

Then WHAT?
By His Power HE WOULD Forgive ALL of the mans SINS, and unrighteousness.
AND, HE WOULD Convert the man;
Wholly, WHOLE, and sanctified holy.

AND? MORE complication.
About WHAT? UNDERSTANDING.

How does a Christian, who Believes, who Has submitted to the Lord, who Has become Forgiven, WHO has become made WHOLE...

Thereafter SIN?
According to Scripture, He doesn't.
John 3:9

Does the man BECOME SINLESS? No
Only the Lord is SINNLESS. Never having had sin.
Men are born IN SIN. They are NOT, nor can become SINNLESS, while in a natural body.

A man becomes Forgiven, and Converted, Made WHOLLY WHOLE, sanctified AND WHAT?
Acceptable to God.

Acceptable to men? Not always.

And WHO continues to CLAIM, they SIN, and others SIN? Men

And WHO CLAIMS, a converted man IS FREED from Sin, Sins NO MORE? The Lord.

So WHY do Christians CONTINUE to TEACH, Jewish Laws "ABOUT" Behavior, TO Christians?

BECAUSE, Jewish Laws "ABOUT" behavior, ARE " PRECEPTS".
A "precept" IS a general rule "ABOUT" behavior.

Scripture teaches for men TO KNOW the Lords "precepts", regarding behavior. Learn them, meditate on them, incorporate His "precepts" and use them as your guide for your own individual behavior.

AND? While a CONVERTED man IS LEARNING these "precepts", IS HE COMMITTING a SIN, "IF" he flubs up, or hasn't quite mastered the "precepts"? No.

Do Jews teach, it is still a SIN? Yes.
Do MANY Christian Preachers teach, it IS a SIN? Yes.
Do MANY Christian Teach it is a SIN? Yes

Did the Lord teach it is a SIN, unto a Converted man? No.

What does the Scripture teach about a Converted man?

His Sins are forgiven, and Covered, and the mans SINS no more, BECAUSE the Power of the Lord's Spirit KEEPS the man FREED from committing SIN.

AND a man WHO continues to Learn the Lords "precepts" AND "does them"....IS WHAT?

The man IS transforming HIS OWN MIND, TO WHAT? TO BE....Christ-Like.

And WHEN the Lord returns to Gather up His People.....WHAT does He want to Find IN HIS PEOPLE?

A people WHOSE, WHOLE, body, mind, soul, spirit, WHOLLY, WHOLE, and acceptable to Him.

The Conversion of the mans body, soul, spirit....IS accomplished BY the Lord.

The Conversion of the mans MIND, is accomplished BY the man.
HOW?
1) by learning and following the Lords "PRECEPTS"
2) by the power of the Lord IN THE MAN, to help the man Accomplish following His "precepts".

And While the Lords Accomplishment of the body, soul, spirit....IS the mans forever guarantee to be WITH the Lord and the Lord WITH the man....

The accomplishment of a MAN converting his own Mind, and DOING the Lord's "precepts";
THAT MAN; IS called great in the Kingdom of God; BECAUSE that man "by DOING the Lords "precepts"", has accomplished EXALTING and Glorifying the Lord ON EARTH, before OTHER men.
And the Lord SHALL reward the man FOR his Works.

A man WHO IS converted, but is NOT doing the Lords "precepts", is CALLED the Least in the Kingdom of Heaven. And his rewards shall be fewer.

Point being a man who IS Converted;
IS the conversion accomplished By the Lord, and acceptable to Him, for the man to Be forever with Him and acceptable for the man to occupy the Kingdom of the Lord.

The PENAL Laws, DO NOT APPLY.
..because the Lord has Freed the man from Sin.

The Precepts within the laws DO APPLY.
...because the Lord has Prepared the man to Glorify God, before other men, THAT other men MAY Elected to believe and become converted.

And EVERY Converted man, Becomes the Lords People, the Lords Elect, and the Lords INHERITANCE.

And the MISCUNDERSTANDING of man...
Regularly applies.

Did the Lord DESTROY the LAW? No
The Lord FULFILLED the Law.
The Lords FULFILLMENT of the Law, by default, negates the Penal Law.

And It all depends on WHO the individual IS.
IF he IS a man the Lord has Converted...
And IF he Understands WHAT that Conversion means for that specific man.

And IF that mans Understanding IS:
According to Men...
OR
According to the Lord.

Each individual SHOULD KNOW, and DO, by what they believe, and WHY, by their OWN STANDING.

And TYPICALLY "men", simply like to talk about "THE LAW", without having a CLUE, or ability to define what they mean, by the broad term....THE LAW.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[bbyrd009]

Funny.
God Bless,
Taken

ha ok, my apologies that wasn't very nice lol, what i mean is, what do you mean here

"
Much Knowledge was revealed to OT men.
Some things were foretold AND came to pass before the eyes of OT men.

When Jesus arrived more Knowledge was revealed to NT men.

IOW, what had been Kept Secret FROM OT men was revealed to NT men.
"
if you don't mind explaining a bit more, ty

 

[Taken]

ha ok, my apologies that wasn't very nice lol, what i mean is, what do you mean here

"
Much Knowledge was revealed to OT men.
Some things were foretold AND came to pass before the eyes of OT men.

When Jesus arrived more Knowledge was revealed to NT men.

IOW, what had been Kept Secret FROM OT men was revealed to NT men.
"
if you don't mind explaining a bit more, ty

The parallel concept is ~ we teach our young children bit by bit, as they are prepared to receive information about certain things.

It's like introducing a child to counting, such an abstract thing, that does not apply to only a certain thing. But yet we show them, tell them book, and a book is always a book. It's a process they have to reason, and that happens as they grow. Then they learn to rely on memory of what is familiar to them to apply it to other new things they learn.

New men on the earth, were similar. Teach them what something is called, then as they grow, they learn how to apply what they learn to other things.

Early men on earth were few, without history. Experiences, reading skills, libraries, instant information, from which to compare, etc.

Modern man has oodles of information at his finger tips, knowledge, history, books, others experiences, reading skills, etc.

The availability of information is endless, and the availability for one to get the information is endless.

When God was teaching NEW men, some things of knowledge WERE kept secret and as mysteries.

More and more things of knowledge were revealed and populations grew.

Great mysteries were revealed by Jesus Christ.

For example;
OT men expected a MESSIAH.
Did they know his Name?
No.
Did they know HOW He would appear?
Yes, kind of.
Did they know WHEN He would appear?
No
Did they know WHERE He would appear?
Yes

Did the Jewish Messiah appear? Yes
Did He appear as the Jews thought He would?
No

For example;
Did OT men know a soul departs a dead body? Yes
Did OT men know the Lord controlled the departing soul? Yes
Did OT men know if a departed soul was put back into the body, the body would come back into living? Yes
Did OT men know departed souls went to hell? Yes

Did OT men know departed souls in hell were separated; believers from unbelievers? No.

Did Jesus reveal departed souls in hell were separated? Yes

Did OT men believe men had to routinely give animal BLOOD sacrifice to be forgiven for disobedience to the Law? Yes.

Did Jesus reveal Him giving His BLOOD for forgiveness of ALL sin, was sufficient? Yes

Did OT men know about a born again spirit?
No.

Did Jesus reveal a mans spriit becomes born again?
Yes

And on and on.

The availability of information is endless, (regarding Spiritual things), BUT one must know TO Seek after it, and HOW TO seek it.

Prov 25:2
It is the glory of God to conceal a thing:

No doubt God conceals knowledge, information, wisdom, understanding.

Death 29:29
The secret things belong unto the LORD our God;
But those things which ARE revealed belong unto us and to our children forever...

Luke 12:2
For there is nothing covered, that SHALL not be revealed;
Neither hid, that shall not be known.

All men DO not, learn the same things, or at the same time.
All men DO not, SEEK, Gods Word, His Wisdom or His Understanding.
All men DO NOT BELIEVE, nor can they be given Gods wisdom or understanding of His Word.

Those that DO, are revealed MORE, then they who DO NOT.

Each individual knows his own Standing, of what he believes, what he does, what he reads, what he studies, what he seeks personally from the Lord....and what he doesn't.

A typical "Church" goer...receives a Pastoral sermon, about ONE hour, maybe TWO hours per week, out ot 168 hours per Week.

Few Christians crack up a Bible and actually READ IT.

A Few join study groups for an Hour or so weekly or monthly.

And Fewer Yet, actually Daily read and Study Scripture, and SEEK Gods wisdom and understanding of WHAT they are reading and studying.

And this is not in regard to PRAYERS.
No doubt I would say, Christians routinely Pray.....and typically ASKING for STUFF.
Healings, win the lotto, a new house, a new car, a better relations with their spouse, routine Forgiveness, Forgiveness, Forgiveness...etc.

Which differs from my own opinion, which I base ON Scripture.

However a Day will come, when ALL men are revealed what was covered, hidden, secret, a mystery to them.


God Bless,
Taken

 

[bbyrd009]

ok, ty. might have a comment in a day or so, on a couple spots in there

 

[Taken]

ok, ty. might have a comment in a day or so, on a couple spots in there

Okay,

God Bless,
Taken

 

[brakelite]

Did they know WHEN He would appear?
No

I believe they did know...they had Daniel 9.

Did OT men know a soul departs a dead body? Yes
Did OT men know the Lord controlled the departing soul? Yes
Did OT men know if a departed soul was put back into the body, the body would come back into living? Yes
Did OT men know departed souls went to hell? Yes

This is doubtful. If I have time I will do some more research on this.

Did OT men know about a born again spirit?
No.

They may not have called it "born again", but any rue believer in the OT had to be just as born again as any NT believer. There are examples that bring this to light...Saul, Isaiah...even Nebuchadnezzar.

 

[Taken]

I believe they did know...they had Daniel 9.

Do you know exactly when Daniel 9 was written and can calculate Days? And according to what Calendar would that be?

Just saying if they knew, do you also?

This is doubtful. If I have time I will do some more research on this.

This is true. Well according to Scripture it is true, and I trust Scripture is true.

They may not have called it "born again", but any rue believer in the OT had to be just as born again as any NT believer. There are examples that bring this to light...Saul, Isaiah...even Nebuchadnezzar.

I never said some OT men were not born again...I said they did not know the term;
Nor do I believe they understood the fullness of the meaning.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

This is doubtful. If I have time I will do some more research on this.

I would suggest 1 Kings 17

God Bless,
Taken