Is The Book Of Revelations Still Sealed?

[michaelvpardo]

@Ziggy Kind of shows one of the differences between the Old and New Testaments, right?

I would recommend not dividing the word according to the covenants, but trying to understand scriptures in their context and ultimately as the revelation of God in the person of His Son.
20 For all the promises of God in Him are Yes, and in Him Amen, to the glory of God through us. 2 Corinthians 1:20
This is the confidence of our prayer, calling upon His promises, and another good reason to be familiar with the whole book.

 

[farouk]

I would recommend not dividing the word according to the covenants, but trying to understand scriptures in their context and ultimately as the revelation of God in the person of His Son.
20 For all the promises of God in Him are Yes, and in Him Amen, to the glory of God through us. 2 Corinthians 1:20
This is the confidence of our prayer, calling upon His promises, and another good reason to be familiar with the whole book.

The theme of the written Word is indeed the living and eternal Word. I do see the church - as per Ephesians - as a heavenly people, while Israel is the earthly one.

 

[michaelvpardo]

The theme of the written Word is indeed the living and eternal Word. I do see the church - as per Ephesians - as a heavenly people, while Israel is the earthly one.

Well, I'm hoping for the resurrection. I've lived with pain for over 40 years and I'd appreciate living for some time without it. Whatever the case may be, I don't think the Lord will disappoint His people or break His word.

 

[quietthinker]

Well, I'm hoping for the resurrection. I've lived with pain for over 40 years and I'd appreciate living for some time without it. Whatever the case may be, I don't think the Lord will disappoint His people or break His word.

You won't know yourself Michael. What we understand as living is mere existence. Living as per God's reality comes into this category; 'eye has not seen nor ear heard nor has entered the mind of man the things God has prepared for those who love him'

 

[michaelvpardo]

You won't know yourself Michael. What we understand as living is mere existence. Living as per God's reality comes into this category; 'eye has not seen nor ear heard nor has entered the mind of man the things God has prepared for those who love him'

I'll know myself just fine. I've already seen my meeting with an old love and we knew each other. It was in a white room, but there were no black curtains and it wasn't at the station. We weren't alone either, it was a bit like a cocktail party without the drinks, and everyone was dressed impeccably, but in white, and happy to see each other.

 

[Ronald D Milam]

I would recommend not dividing the word according to the covenants, but trying to understand scriptures in their context and ultimately as the revelation of God in the person of His Son.
20 For all the promises of God in Him are Yes, and in Him Amen, to the glory of God through us. 2 Corinthians 1:20
This is the confidence of our prayer, calling upon His promises, and another good reason to be familiar with the whole book.

Exactly, God never changes. The Promise was the original Covenant, not the law.

I'll know myself just fine. I've already seen my meeting with an old love and we knew each other. It was in a white room, but there were no black curtains and it wasn't at the station. We weren't alone either, it was a bit like a cocktail party without the drinks, and everyone was dressed impeccably, but in white, and happy to see each other.

I don't know your situation, but when dreaming, if we see old friends who have passed on, be careful, Demons use these images to try and whisper things unto us in our dreams. I was having some set backs and God allowed me to see what they actually looked like via fasting and prayer, it was a Demon Spirit with a long tail and some horns, and I jump across the table and pounced on her (looked feminine) and her and her two imps fled so fast it was like Speedy Gonzales.

I started noticing every time a friend died a week or so later I would be in a dream with them, the Demons have to try cloak themselves because they are afraid of our power in Jesus' name.

 

[The Light]

No, wrath coming at the 7th trump means it starts then. Coming does not mean finished.


No, Revelation 6 is prophecy not real world actions.

I just showed you that the events of the seal that John talked about are the very same events that Jesus talked about in Matt 24. And this includes the great tribulation and the coming of Jesus.

For you to say that the events of Rev 6 are prophecy and not real world action is nonsense. Prophecy is about things that will happen in the real world. The 1st six seals line up perfectly with Matthew 24. Jesus comes at the 6th seal IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION and then the wrath of God begins.

Rev 6
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

 

[michaelvpardo]

Exactly, God never changes. The Promise was the original Covenant, not the law.



I don't know your situation, but when dreaming, if we see old friends who have passed on, be careful, Demons use these images to try and whisper things unto us in our dreams. I was having some set backs and God allowed me to see what they actually looked like via fasting and prayer, it was a Demon Spirit with a long tail and some horns, and I jump across the table and pounced on her (looked feminine) and her and her two imps fled so fast it was like Speedy Gonzales.

I started noticing every time a friend died a week or so later I would be in a dream with them, the Demons have to try cloak themselves because they are afraid of our power in Jesus' name.

I test the Spirits and demons won't give their name.

 

[Ronald D Milam]

I just showed you that the events of the seal that John talked about are the very same events that Jesus talked about in Matt 24. And this includes the great tribulation and the coming of Jesus.

Matt. 24:15-31 is indeed the 70th week end times. But Matthew 24:4-6 is specifically about the 70 AD temples destruction, and the destruction of Jerusalem. The Matt. 24:7-14 versions are all about the Church Age. This portion ends with the rapture because the Gospel has been taken unto all the world, in other words our mission as the Church is finished with verse 14. Not one thing before verse 15 is about the 70th week troubles, period, that just you misinterpreting those passages brother.

For you to say that the events of Rev 6 are prophecy and not real world action is nonsense. Prophecy is about things that will happen in the real world. The 1st six seals line up perfectly with Matthew 24. Jesus comes at the 6th seal IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION and then the wrath of God begins.

Rev 6
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

So, is Joel 2:31 nonsense? You make zero sense !! So, Jesus can't Prophecy and SHOW John what will be going on in Seal #6? All you have to do is be able to read just a wee bit and you can see tat Joel 2:31 AND the 6th Seal both point to the coming Fourth Trumpet Judgment where things go very dark. And towards the first four Trumps in general, which is an asteroid strike on this earth. In the first four seals the beasts or Angels who cover the Lord sat "Come and See" in Seal 5 John instead hears Jesus speaking to these Martyrs and in Seal #6 he again sees thigs going on in the world and hears their fears, it is him seeing into the future which is mere days into the future, as soon as the Jews (144,000 = a CODE WORD for all Israel) flee unto the mountains, as seen in Rev. 7, the the 7th Seal is opened, which brings the Judgment Trumps or the Day of the Lord.

It sad to me to see people who have tunnel vision because they can only see what they learned from other men long before God decided to reveal His secrets in full in these end times.

 

[Timtofly]

It sad to me to see people who have tunnel vision because they can only see what they learned from other men long before God decided to reveal His secrets in full in these end times.

Except you are just repeating what those same "other men" already have been saying. The majority of posters on Christian forums say the same thing you are saying. They all say John is repeating the same event several times to give a different emphasis each time. Even Amil declare the same thing. You call it tunnel vision, but it is a rut that has everyone just saying the same thing with their own personal twist to make a huge enough point to argue over.

 

[michaelvpardo]

Except you are just repeating what those same "other men" already have been saying. The majority of posters on Christian forums say the same thing you are saying. They all say John is repeating the same event several times to give a different emphasis each time. Even Amil declare the same thing. You call it tunnel vision, but it is a rut that has everyone just saying the same thing with their own personal twist to make a huge enough point to argue over.

Truth is not arrived at by consensus, but established by God.
However, those who receive His Spirit, the Spirit of truth, have the foundation of the mind of christ. Some degree of consensus is expected among the saints that have His Spirit.

But what did the Lord say Himself?
And Jesus said to them, “Therefore every scribe who has become a disciple of the kingdom of heaven is like a head of a household, who brings out of his treasure new things and old.” Matthew 13:52

 

[ewq1938]

For you to say that the events of Rev 6 are prophecy and not real world action is nonsense.

It's advanced understanding. So let's look at your view. Jesus opens the 6th seal and leaves heaven to go to the Earth to do all the second coming stuff, yet the bible says he remains in heaven to open the 7th seal then 7 trumpets sound and Jesus has a third coming which isn't scriptural. Sure, your view makes perfect sense.

 

[The Light]

Matt. 24:15-31 is indeed the 70th week end times. But Matthew 24:4-6 is specifically about the 70 AD temples destruction, and the destruction of Jerusalem.

Matthew 24:4-6 is NOT about the destruction of the Temple in 70AD as most men teach. All you have to do is read Luke 21 and it easily proves that it has nothing to do with 70AD. We are told that there will not be one stone upon another. NOT ONE. And yet there are plenty of stones upon another. And what does verse 7 say? But when shall these things be, and what sign will there be when these things come to pass?

So we are told directly that there will be a sign when these things come to pass. There will be a sign when there will not be one stone upon another. So if these things, not one stone upon another have happened, WHAT WAS THE SIGN?

There is still one stone upon another no matter what men teach. And if they want to teach that this was fulfilled in 70AD, WHAT WAS THE SIGN?

Luke 21
6 As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

7 And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?

The Matt. 24:7-14 versions are all about the Church Age. This portion ends with the rapture because the Gospel has been taken unto all the world, in other words our mission as the Church is finished with verse 14.

The Church is already in heaven before the 70th week of Daniel begins. We can see them in Rev 4 and Rev 5. THEN the seals are opened and the 70th week of Daniel begins.

Not one thing before verse 15 is about the 70th week troubles, period, that just you misinterpreting those passages brother.

If you are looking for passages about 70AD, you won't find any in Matther 24 or Mark 13. You will find passages about 70 AD in Luke 21.

So, is Joel 2:31 nonsense? You make zero sense !! So, Jesus can't Prophecy and SHOW John what will be going on in Seal #6? All you have to do is be able to read just a wee bit and you can see tat Joel 2:31 AND the 6th Seal both point to the coming Fourth Trumpet Judgment where things go very dark. And towards the first four Trumps in general, which is an asteroid strike on this earth.

Brother, Jesus returns at the 6th seal just before wrath begins...IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION. This has nothing to do with the 4th trumpet judgement. Again, here is the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal. He remains in the clouds.

Rev 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

In the first four seals the beasts or Angels who cover the Lord sat "Come and See"

The 1st four seals that John told us about can be found in Matthew 24. Jesus tells us the same thing. The 1st four seals are the beginning of sorrows.
Matt 24
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

in Seal 5 John instead hears Jesus speaking to these Martyrs

Seal 5 is the Great Tribulation which we can also find in Matthew 24.

and in Seal #6 he again sees thigs going on in the world and hears their fears, it is him seeing into the future which is mere days into the future

Brother, at the 6th seal, immediately after the tribulation, Jesus returns and remains in the clouds and sends His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth.
Rev 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

, as soon as the Jews (144,000 = a CODE WORD for all Israel)

The 144,000 are not a code word for all of Israel. We are specifically told EXACTLY who the 144,000 are. THEY ARE THE FIRSTFRUITS OF THE COMING HARVEST. They are 12,000 male virgins from each tribe of Israel.

flee unto the mountains, as seen in Rev. 7, the the 7th Seal is opened,which brings the Judgment Trumps or the Day of the Lord.

The Great Tribulation is over at the 6th seal and Jesus returns
Rev 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

It sad to me to see people who have tunnel vision because they can only see what they learned from other men long before God decided to reveal His secrets in full in these end times.

Please tell me which one of these men of God I've learned from? I'm currently unaware of anyone specific that understands that there will be two raptures. If you know of anyone that understands these things, let me know, as I would be happy to learn from them.

 

[The Light]

It's advanced understanding. So let's look at your view. Jesus opens the 6th seal and leaves heaven to go to the Earth to do all the second coming stuff

Jesus opens the 6th seal and gathers the elect from heaven and earth. He remains in the clouds and sends His angels. See the coming of Jesus in Matt 24. See the coming of Jesus for the harvest in Rev 14. They are the same event and they occur at the 6th seal. Then Jesus and those gathered from heaven and earth go back to heaven. Then He opens the 7th seal. The wrath of God lasts 1 year. At the end of wrath at the 7th trumpet, Jesus returns with His armies to do all that 2nd coming stuff.

, yet the bible says he remains in heaven to open the 7th seal then 7 trumpets sound and Jesus has a third coming which isn't scriptural. Sure, your view makes perfect sense.

My view makes sense because that's what the Word says. I don't need to make anything up, just read what it says.

 

[ewq1938]

Jesus opens the 6th seal and gathers the elect from heaven and earth.

No, he remains in heaven to open the 7th seal. Then he waits until the 7th trump to return to the Earth.

He remains in the clouds and sends His angels. See the coming of Jesus in Matt 24. See the coming of Jesus for the harvest in Rev 14.
They are the same event and they occur at the 6th seal.

No, the occur at the 7th trump. The 6th seal only shows what happens at the 7th trump.

Then Jesus and those gathered from heaven and earth go back to heaven. Then He opens the 7th seal. The wrath of God lasts 1 year.

My view makes sense because that's what the Word says. I don't need to make anything up, just read what it says.

None of that is biblical.

All the seals are opened, then he waits for the 7th trump and that is when the second coming and rapture take place. You don't understand the nature of the seals at all which has your end times theology out of whack.

 

[Ronald D Milam]

Matthew 24:4-6 is NOT about the destruction of the Temple in 70AD as most men teach. All you have to do is read Luke 21 and it easily proves that it has nothing to do with 70AD. We are told that there will not be one stone upon another. NOT ONE. And yet there are plenty of stones upon another. And what does verse 7 say? But when shall these things be, and what sign will there be when these things come to pass?

So we are told directly that there will be a sign when these things come to pass. There will be a sign when there will not be one stone upon another. So if these things, not one stone upon another have happened, WHAT WAS THE SIGN?

There is still one stone upon another no matter what men teach. And if they want to teach that this was fulfilled in 70AD, WHAT WAS THE SIGN?

The Temple is not the Wailing Wall, that is the Outside Court made for the Gentiles. So you not knowing facts leads you down rabbit holes. The whole point to Matt. 24:4-14 is to warn his Disciples about how to stay alive, and he did this by telling them THE END (70th week) would not come until the Gospel had been preached unto all the world. So, nothing in verses 4-14 can happen (THE END STARTS in verse 14) until the Rapture happens, thus the Disciples knew they would not see the Rapture until China, India and the far north (Scythians/Russia today) had been preached unto, thus Jesus made it very simple for them as per what was going to happen during their lifetimes. They would all die save John as Martyrs, and there was no use returning to Jerusalem when they heard of wars and rumors of wars because Zechariah 14:3-4 would not be happening until the Gospel had first been preached unto all the world. You hinging all of your understanding on the fact that the Temple has not been completely destroyed, whilst it has, is simply incredulous. Have you seriously spent your life building your eschatological understandings around that misdiagnosed fact? Sorry, but I see that as mistake literally no one should make, there is no excuse for not knowing the Wailing Wall is a part of the Gentile Court, not the Temple., you just did not do any research brother.

The Church is already in heaven before the 70th week of Daniel begins. We can see them in Rev 4 and Rev 5. THEN the seals are opened and the 70th week of Daniel begins.

Yes, and that Rapture can not happen until after verse 14, Jesus says so, thus only verses 15-31 are a part of the 70th week via Matt 24.

If you are looking for passages about 70AD, you won't find any in Matther 24 or Mark 13. You will find passages about 70 AD in Luke 21.

They are all the same, you are just misinterpreting them.

Brother, Jesus returns at the 6th seal just before wrath begins...IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION. This has nothing to do with the 4th trumpet judgement. Again, here is the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal. He remains in the clouds.

You are very confused on THE TIMING, Jesus returns at the 7th Vial, see Rev. 16:19, that verse, Rev. 11s 7th Trump (which is the coming 3rd Woe which contains the 7 Vials), Rev. 14:17-20, and Rev. 19 the Armageddon Marriage Supper are all the exact same time and event. Rev. 8, 9 and 16 (15&16 actually are one chapter) are the only chapters showing the 42 months of God's Wrath in REAL TIME, the rest of the chapters are Parenthetical Citation chapters. The Seals DO NOTHING, they are prophetic in nature.

The Tribulation means Jacobs Troubles, so they flee Judea at the 1290, which gives them 30 days to make it to the Petra/Bozrah area where God will protect them, and yet you don't understand the 1260 days of TROUBLES/Tribulation ends with Jesus' Second Coming?

IMMEDIATELY AFTER the 1260 days Jesus Returns at the 7th Vial. Again, the 6th Seal does nothing, it is Jesus Prophesying about the coming Wrath of God, just like Seals 1-5 is Jesus Prophesying about the Anti-Christs 42 month reign of terror that is soon to come, as soon as the 7th seal (over in Rev. 8 for a reason) is opened, thus the Judgments can now fall. The seals have God's Judgments contained until they are opened, that's why they are called "SEALS". When you SEAL and 18 wheel trucks cargo, it can't be opened until the SEAL is opened. If its opened up prior to the trucker making his destination then the contents are suspect. Likewise kings sent messages under three signet seals to ensure their messages were not intercepted. The 7 Seals seal up God's Wrath in them, only when opened all the way (7th seal) does God's Wrath finally fall on mankind.

The 1st four seals that John told us about can be found in Matthew 24. Jesus tells us the same thing. The 1st four seals are the beginning of sorrows.

You are WRONG, the Church Age is not a part of the 70th week. Matthew 24:7-14 is the Church Age. The Gospel has to be preached unto ALL THE WORLD, and then the END (70th week) COMES. The Birth-pangs (Sorrows) BIRTH the 70th week.

Seal 5 is the Great Tribulation which we can also find in Matthew 24.

ALL of the Seals are Prophetic in Nature, we are shown what the 70th week Martyrs will be killed during the 70th week tribulation period. The Martyrs will mostly be Gentile Christians who come unto God after the Rapture (the Jews will be protected). The Seals foretells their coming cries for vengeance after they have been killed, but this is BEFORE the Anti-Christ goes forth conquering.

Brother, at the 6th seal, immediately after the tribulation, Jesus returns and remains in the clouds and sends His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth.

You are just as confused now as you were a year or two ago on the Worthy site asper timing. The 6th Seal DOES NOTHING, it is Prophetic, we see Jesus returning at the 7th Vial, can you not read? Matt. 24:31 is the Church returning with Jesus and Jesus gathering up his 70th week Elect.

The 144,000 are not a code word for all of Israel. We are specifically told EXACTLY who the 144,000 are. THEY ARE THE FIRSTFRUITS OF THE COMING HARVEST. They are 12,000 male virgins from each tribe of Israel.

The Church are the First-fruits of the Barley Harvest which ALWAYS comes in first. We can see in Rev. 14:14 a FLASHBACK to the Pre Trib Rapture, in Rev. 14:1 we can see the Wheat Harvest of the Jews, they will be the First-fruits of the Kingdom Age. Then in Revelation 14:17-20 we see the First-fruits of the wicked Grapes. Each Harvest has a FIRST-FRUIT !!

Read this...Three Main Harvests Of Souls

The 144,000 are seen in Rev. chapter 7, JUST BEFORE God's Wrath Falls in the Rev. 8 Trumpet Judgments. The 144,000 are the Jews fleeing Judea, the 1/3 who REPENT in Zechariah 13:8-9 just before we see the Day of the Lord arrive in the very next verse (Zechariah 14:1). They are a CODE NUMBER just like the Woman in Rev. 12 is a CODE WORD. They are not all males just like the 10 Brides are not all "real virgin females" they represent AL Christendom, and likewise Woman and the 144,000 bit represent ALL Israel who repent.

The number 12 = fulness the number 10 = completeness, thus 12 x 12 x 10 x 10 x 10 = ALL Israel who repents, not 144,000 male virgins, that is metaphoric in nature just like the 10 virgins are. That is why they need PROTECTION in Rev. 7, the verse specifically says HOLD BACK the four winds (Winds = Judgments) until the 144,000 are SEALED (They repent and get the seal we have, the Holy Spirit, and then reach the Petra/Bozrah area of safety) in their foreheads, and Rev. 14 says they have the Fathers name in their foreheads meaning God the Father is married unto Israel. We go to Heaven to marry Jesus, they are protected by God supernaturally.

The Great Tribulation is over at the 6th seal and Jesus returns
Rev 6

You do not understand end time prophecy's TIMING. Was it over 2500 years ago when Joel prophesied the same thing as Jesus does just before the Wrath Falls? Nuff said.

Please tell me which one of these men of God I've learned from? I'm currently unaware of anyone specific that understands that there will be two raptures. If you know of anyone that understands these things, let me know, as I would be happy to learn from them.

You pass down what men tell you, not what God is trying to tell you, else you wouldn't have your TIMING so off.

 

[Ronald D Milam]

Except you are just repeating what those same "other men" already have been saying. The majority of posters on Christian forums say the same thing you are saying. They all say John is repeating the same event several times to give a different emphasis each time. Even Amil declare the same thing. You call it tunnel vision, but it is a rut that has everyone just saying the same thing with their own personal twist to make a huge enough point to argue over.

The truth is it is split, but even those who realize the book of Revelation (BoR) is not in chronological order are all over the place trying to put it in order, I actually understand the exact order it is in. I have been reading and studying this book over 35 years and have never seen anyone say what I say, and I know its factual.

99.9 percent of everyone on earth have NO CLUE the Seals do nothing and are prophetic in nature. No one, I repeat no one understands the 1290 and 1335 come before the Anti-Christ conquers Israel and Jerusalem at the 1260.

Each are THAT SPECIFIC NUMBER OF DAYS (1260, 1290 AND 1335) until the Second Coming ENDS ALL THOSE WONDERS, as seen in Dan. 11:36-45. So, the 1335 comes first (Two-witnesses) and the 1290 comes next (False Prophet/Jewish High Priest gone rogue) and the 1260 comes last via all three events (The Anti-Christ conquers Israel and THE MANY to become THE BEAST).

The reason almost no one understand End Time Eschatology is because they do not understand the 1335, 1290 and 1260. Everyone is looking for an Anti-Christ sitting in the temple and taking away a MEAT SCRIFICE, which is oxymoronic in nature because a MEAT SACROFIE being taken away cannot defile the Temple, it would already be defiled !! Why don't people realize God would be very, very angry at this because they would essentially be mocking Jesus' death which already paid the price in full for our sins !! The only Sacrifice that can be TAKEN AWAY (Stopped) which would thus defile the Temple would be Jesus Worship, because they have to understand the Matthew 24:15-17 verses which tells them to flee Judea when they see the AoD.

Everyone misses that which should be simplistic, God/Jesus is speaking about the False Prophet, rogue Jewish High Priest, who throws in with the E.U. (which is the Covenant/AGREEMEMT, Israel becomes a member of the E.U.) and he then forbids Jesus Worship and places an Image of the E.U. President up in the temple of God, that is both the TAKING AWAY (Stopping Jesus worship) an the placing of the AoD. He is taking his orders from the Anti-Christ as Daniel 9:27 says HE (A.C.) CAUSES this to come to pass.

So, why/how/what causes the Jews to repent? The 1335 Blessing, the Two-witnesses are sent back BEFORE the DOTL as both Malachi 4:5-6 and Zechariah 13:8-9 (REPENTS HERE) and Zechariah 14:1 (DOTL HERE) shows us.

 

[Timtofly]

The truth is it is split, but even those who realize the book of Revelation (BoR) is not in chronological order are all over the place trying to put it in order, I actually understand the exact order it is in. I have been reading and studying this book over 35 years and have never seen anyone say what I say, and I know its factual.

99.9 percent of everyone on earth have NO CLUE the Seals do nothing and are prophetic in nature. No one, I repeat no one understands the 1290 and 1335 come before the Anti-Christ conquers Israel and Jerusalem at the 1260.

Each are THAT SPECIFIC NUMBER OF DAYS (1260, 1290 AND 1335) until the Second Coming ENDS ALL THOSE WONDERS, as seen in Dan. 11:36-45. So, the 1335 comes first (Two-witnesses) and the 1290 comes next (False Prophet/Jewish High Priest gone rogue) and the 1260 comes last via all three events (The Anti-Christ conquers Israel and THE MANY to become THE BEAST).

The reason almost no one understand End Time Eschatology is because they do not understand the 1335, 1290 and 1260. Everyone is looking for an Anti-Christ sitting in the temple and taking away a MEAT SCRIFICE, which is oxymoronic in nature because a MEAT SACROFIE being taken away cannot defile the Temple, it would already be defiled !! Why don't people realize God would be very, very angry at this because they would essentially be mocking Jesus' death which already paid the price in full for our sins !! The only Sacrifice that can be TAKEN AWAY (Stopped) which would thus defile the Temple would be Jesus Worship, because they have to understand the Matthew 24:15-17 verses which tells them to flee Judea when they see the AoD.

Everyone misses that which should be simplistic, God/Jesus is speaking about the False Prophet, rogue Jewish High Priest, who throws in with the E.U. (which is the Covenant/AGREEMEMT, Israel becomes a member of the E.U.) and he then forbids Jesus Worship and places an Image of the E.U. President up in the temple of God, that is both the TAKING AWAY (Stopping Jesus worship) an the placing of the AoD. He is taking his orders from the Anti-Christ as Daniel 9:27 says HE (A.C.) CAUSES this to come to pass.

So, why/how/what causes the Jews to repent? The 1335 Blessing, the Two-witnesses are sent back BEFORE the DOTL as both Malachi 4:5-6 and Zechariah 13:8-9 and 14:1 shows us.

You are not unique in trying to fit numbers into Revelation. You are not unique in stating the Seals do nothing. The majority of the church since the Reformation have declared the Seals opened since the Cross, literally doing nothing. Only the recent works of a pre-trib rapture which is a minority belief in the church, has there been inclusion of the Seals into a 7 year period.

All have the Second Coming at the wrong point. Presumably because Jesus declared He did not know, and when John wrote Revelation Chapter 19 seemed to be God telling us the exact moment. Except it was not God telling us the exact moment. Because John put the only sign of the Second Coming in the 6th Seal. John did not say, "This it it folks". John gave the same info Jesus did in Matthew 24, and people have the timing wrong about the Second Coming in Matthew 24 as well. People have the details down great. The timing not so great, and no one can know the day nor the hour, except God. God knows when that decision will be made. God more than likely already made that decision. God has not implemented that decision, nor told us the day or hour of that decision. So Armageddon is not the Second Coming, because that happens on a Sunday between 5pm and 6pm. We can know the day and hour of that return. Knowing that data nullifies Armageddon as the Second Coming. God has not changed the fact no one can know the day and hour of the Second Coming itself.

 

[Ronald D Milam]

You are not unique in trying to fit numbers into Revelation. You are not unique in stating the Seals do nothing

Incorrect in that I do indeed understand the numbers. Incorrect in that if 99.9 think different I am still not "UNIQUE" but I am, because those .1 percent probably are just as wrong on everything else as most people are on the BoR timelines. So if 10 people out of 20 million say something I am not "Unique" in your manner of thinking, which I see as you just using word games when trying to win a debate point, why not just admit the facts sir, basically I don't follow the crowd, and since you inferred I do, you now have to try and strain at a gnat to prove a point, which is just not a winnable argument for you, just admit the facts and move on friendo. "You sound like a Dem using word games, you are not "Unique" because one other person has that POV LOL, come on brother.

The majority of the church since the Reformation have declared the Seals opened since the Cross, literally doing nothing.

I highly doubt this, most people I have known think the Seals are a part of 21 Judgments as I once did. I know of no credible person that thinks the Seals are already open. Jesus is seen in Heaven with the Pre Tribulation Raptured Church, as seen in Rev. 4 and 5, and no one goes to Heaven until the Rapture because we see the Dead and Living are both raised at the exact same time in 1 Corinthians 15:50-52. So, the Seals thus can not be opened until after the Pre Tribulation Rapture happens, and thus they can not have been opened as of now. These types also say, WRONGLY, that the White Horse is Jesus, that the Red Horse is all the wars (wrongly) since Jesus' death, the Black Horse was the Famines and the Pale [Green] Horse was the Death/Sickness of the Black Plagues, COVID 19 ETC. But they would of course be wrong.

Only the recent works of a pre-trib rapture which is a minority belief in the church, has there been inclusion of the Seals into a 7 year period.

The Pre Trib Rapture types are a LARGE MAJORITY of those who attend Church, the ones I see who do not understand it is those whom I call the "Message Board Warriors", not from those who I have seen in Churches for the last 35 years, but those who are pretty much independent thinkers who in many cases do not attend Church. I never see the Mid nor Post Tribers in Church. (jmho)

All have the Second Coming at the wrong point. Presumably because Jesus declared He did not know, and when John wrote Revelation Chapter 19 seemed to be God telling us the exact moment. Except it was not God telling us the exact moment. Because John put the only sign of the Second Coming in the 6th Seal. John did not say, "This it it folks". John gave the same info Jesus did in Matthew 24, and people have the timing wrong about the Second Coming in Matthew 24 as well. People have the details down great. The timing not so great, and no one can know the day nor the hour, except God.

The timing is easy for me, you conflate the Second Coming with the Rapture. How can the Sheep and Goats be separated if the Rapture is at the Second Coming (Never thought of that have you? Amen), that would separate the two right there. The Rapture is Pre Trib, our jobs on this earth is finished, no one after the 70th week is leaving, those still here will go through God's Wrath, and that Wrath is gong to wipe out 1/3 of the world, all of the New World will basically be destroyed. John says nothing in the 6th Seal about the 2nd Coming, he points to the start of the DOTL which lasts for 42 months. The 6th Seal AND Joel 2:31 both point to the coming DOLT, not the 2nd Coming. No one knowing the Day nor the Hour is all about the Pre Trib Rapture, I have explained this ad nauseam, when I do this do you guys just ignore the facts and carry on as if you have never seen this? I don't get it tbh.

So, the New Year could NEVER BE KNOWN on what day it would arrive because Israel/Jews had a Lunar Calendar, thus the New Year would always be contingent on the New Moon coming in, and thus it could always happen over a two day period of time (Not KNOWING the Day nor Hour is referencing this factoid) and thus the Jews/Israel had to send out two witnesses up into the mountains to spy out when the new moon came in, then they would send word back to the leaders and once they got word they would blow the Shofar (Trumpets) for 99 times in 9 sets of 11, then with the "LAST TRUMP" they sounded it LONGER & LOUDER than the other 99 and it would "Officially End the Harvest" and bring in the New Year. GOT IT? So, the Last Trump always ended the Harvest !! And Started the New Year. The Last Trump Paul was thus referring unto was Jesus ending the Harvest of the Church Age !!

Spring Feasts Jesus Fulfilled
1.) Passover (Jesus' blood covers our sin)
2.) Unleavened Bread (Jesus had no sin)
3.) First-fruits (Jesus was the First-fruits of the grave)

Summer Harvest (TIME of the Gentiles all alone on the Calendar by itself)
4.) Feast of Weeks/Pentecost/Summer Harvest/Church Age ( We, the Church are Harvesting souls for the Master Jesus/God via the Holy Spirit, we do not knw the EXACT day nor Hour that the Father will send Jesus back for us, but when the Father decides to do this Jesus will call us up unto him, "OFICALLY ENDING THE HARVEST/Church Age" Thus the Last Trump is Jesus calling us home, now you know why Rev. 4:1 says Jesus sounded as a Trump when he told John to "COME UP HERE". Then we see the Church in Heaven in Rev. 4:4 and Rev. 5:9-10.

Fall Feasts yet to be fulfilled by Jesus
5.) Feast of Trumps (When Jesus is sent back by the Father he calls the Church home via the Last Trump officially ending the Harvest/Church Age/Time of the Gentiles.)

6.) Feast of Atonement (Who has to ATONE according to Dan. 9:24-27? Israel, that's who, thus we see that in Malachi 4:5-6 and in Zechariah 13:8-9 and that happens just before the coming DOTL as seen in Zechariah 14:1. Thus every Feast was a Shadow of things to come or a Holy Convocation, which simply means a Dress Rehearsal !! Amen. )

7.) Feast of Tabernacles (To TABERNACLE simply means to DWELL with God and Jesus is God thus his 1000 year Reign from Jerusalem is Jesus Tabernacling with Israel, thus Jesus fulfill all 7 Feasts and thus we were told over 3000 yeas ago the History of mankind.)

The Day and the Hour not being known simply means we do not know EXACTLY the day nor Hour Jesus will call us home, but we do know it ENDS THE HARVEST/Church Age. We also know it is thus a Pre Trib Rapture.

God knows when that decision will be made. God more than likely already made that decision. God has not implemented that decision, nor told us the day or hour of that decision. So Armageddon is not the Second Coming, because that happens on a Sunday between 5pm and 6pm. We can know the day and hour of that return. Knowing that data nullifies Armageddon as the Second Coming. God has not changed the fact no one can know the day and hour of the Second Coming itself.

The Second Coming thus has ZERO to do with the Day nor Hour. Armageddon will happen 1260 days after the Beast conquers Israel/Jews/Jerusalem. Your problem is you do not understand the Rapture ends THE HARVEST, thus you are going to get everything else wrong !!

 

[Timtofly]

The Second Coming thus has ZERO to do with the Day nor Hour. Armageddon will happen 1260 days after the Beast conquers Israel/Jews/Jerusalem. Your problem is you do not understand the Rapture ends THE HARVEST, thus you are going to get everything else wrong !!

The Son of man, Jesus Christ is present to sow and reap the final harvest per Matthew 13:37-39

"He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels."

This is not about the church. This is not even about Israel. This is about Jesus here as Prince during the last half of the 70th week. This takes place during the 7 Thunders, after the first 6 Trumpets. The 6 Trumpets deal with Matthew 25:31, after Jesus as Prince already on earth on His glorious throne, after the Second Coming. This judgment is not about the church, but about His people, Israel; the sheep and goats.

The church is raptured at the Second Coming in the 6th Seal. The church is already in Paradise while the 144k are being sealed on the earth.

The 7th Trumpet is declaring an end to all this time of trouble the final harvest. The reason no one can know is because the last 3.5 years of the 70th week keeps getting shorter. Instead of a full 3.5 years it could be months in length. Because the final harvest of the church will stop at the Second Coming. The more time allotted the church the bigger the church harvest.

After the Second Coming, Israel is called out of the Nations. The sheep awarded eternal life, the goats eternal damnation. But the goats can only be removed from the Lamb's book of life after the 7th Seal is opened. You can deny these points all you want. Only time will show who is wrong or who is right. This is not a debate. So claiming argument points is pointless.