Jeff Wiebe
Member
He might have influenced your decision in a different way than me. Everyone's life is different and everyone comes to Christ in there own way. He knows us and knows what we need.
Is the Holy Spirit needed to believe initially?
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I find that Synergism is more compatible with the biblical concept of free will then Monergism ever could be.
I find that Synergism is more compatible with the biblical concept of free will then Monergism ever could be.
Anthony D'Arienzo
Well-Known Member
APAK,
Hello Apak,
Lets see what we have here...
[Well I do not agree with you that the Law applies to those under grace, period.]
what do these verses mean than Apak?mt5
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
heb8
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
ROM331 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
[I suspect your definition of grace is quite different from mine. Yes there is grace in both the OT and NT although not all forms of God's grace were present throughout. There was one form of grace for salvation in the OT and another form in the NT. They are really different.]
I believe someone has taught you incorrectly on these issues, Christians are not lawless, and every OT. saint was saved by grace.
[The next part: what do you mean that all saints were regenerated, I guess you meant under the Law, right? I would like to see your scripture on this point]
sure;
23 Now these be the last words of David. David the son of Jesse said, and the man who was raised up on high, the anointed of the God of Jacob, and the sweet psalmist of Israel, said,
2 The Spirit of the Lord spake by me, and his word was in my tongue.
3 The God of Israel said, the Rock of Israel spake to me, He that ruleth over men must be just, ruling in the fear of God.
4 And he shall be as the light of the morning, when the sun riseth, even a morning without clouds; as the tender grass springing out of the earth by clear shining after rain.
5 Although my house be not so with God; yet he hath made with me an everlasting covenant, ordered in all things, and sure: for this is all my salvation, and all my desire, although he make it not to grow.
psalm32
32 Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.
2 Blessed is the man unto whom the Lord imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.
3 When I kept silence, my bones waxed old through my roaring all the day long.
4 For day and night thy hand was heavy upon me: my moisture is turned into the drought of summer. Selah.
5 I acknowledge my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah.
6 For this shall every one that is godly pray unto thee in a time when thou mayest be found: surely in the floods of great waters they shall not come nigh unto him.
7 Thou art my hiding place; thou shalt preserve me from trouble; thou shalt compass me about with songs of deliverance. Selah.
8 I will instruct thee and teach thee in the way which thou shalt go: I will guide thee with mine eye.
9 Be ye not as the horse, or as the mule, which have no understanding: whose mouth must be held in with bit and bridle, lest they come near unto thee.
10 Many sorrows shall be to the wicked: but he that trusteth in the Lord, mercy shall compass him about.
11 Be glad in the Lord, and rejoice, ye righteous: and shout for joy, all ye that are upright in heart.
[And the last part I definitely disagree with. so you think the Holy Spirt is a 'person,' really.]
God is three co equal, co eternal persons, and yet one true and living God
[Can you provide scripture on this one as well. The Holy spirit is not a commodity. I sense you are trying to reinforce again your non-scriptural beliefs.]
Non scriptural beliefs ??? are you a professed Christian or something else?
Do you believe that God exists in three Divine persons?
You can only lie to a person,
acts5:
3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
Hello Apak,
Lets see what we have here...
[Well I do not agree with you that the Law applies to those under grace, period.]
what do these verses mean than Apak?mt5
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
heb8
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
ROM331 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
[I suspect your definition of grace is quite different from mine. Yes there is grace in both the OT and NT although not all forms of God's grace were present throughout. There was one form of grace for salvation in the OT and another form in the NT. They are really different.]
I believe someone has taught you incorrectly on these issues, Christians are not lawless, and every OT. saint was saved by grace.
[The next part: what do you mean that all saints were regenerated, I guess you meant under the Law, right? I would like to see your scripture on this point]
sure;
23 Now these be the last words of David. David the son of Jesse said, and the man who was raised up on high, the anointed of the God of Jacob, and the sweet psalmist of Israel, said,
2 The Spirit of the Lord spake by me, and his word was in my tongue.
3 The God of Israel said, the Rock of Israel spake to me, He that ruleth over men must be just, ruling in the fear of God.
4 And he shall be as the light of the morning, when the sun riseth, even a morning without clouds; as the tender grass springing out of the earth by clear shining after rain.
5 Although my house be not so with God; yet he hath made with me an everlasting covenant, ordered in all things, and sure: for this is all my salvation, and all my desire, although he make it not to grow.
psalm32
32 Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.
2 Blessed is the man unto whom the Lord imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.
3 When I kept silence, my bones waxed old through my roaring all the day long.
4 For day and night thy hand was heavy upon me: my moisture is turned into the drought of summer. Selah.
5 I acknowledge my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah.
6 For this shall every one that is godly pray unto thee in a time when thou mayest be found: surely in the floods of great waters they shall not come nigh unto him.
7 Thou art my hiding place; thou shalt preserve me from trouble; thou shalt compass me about with songs of deliverance. Selah.
8 I will instruct thee and teach thee in the way which thou shalt go: I will guide thee with mine eye.
9 Be ye not as the horse, or as the mule, which have no understanding: whose mouth must be held in with bit and bridle, lest they come near unto thee.
10 Many sorrows shall be to the wicked: but he that trusteth in the Lord, mercy shall compass him about.
11 Be glad in the Lord, and rejoice, ye righteous: and shout for joy, all ye that are upright in heart.
[And the last part I definitely disagree with. so you think the Holy Spirt is a 'person,' really.]
God is three co equal, co eternal persons, and yet one true and living God
[Can you provide scripture on this one as well. The Holy spirit is not a commodity. I sense you are trying to reinforce again your non-scriptural beliefs.]
Non scriptural beliefs ??? are you a professed Christian or something else?
Do you believe that God exists in three Divine persons?
You can only lie to a person,
acts5:
3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
Anthony D'Arienzo
Well-Known Member
APAK,
[And the last part I definitely disagree with. so you think the Holy Spirt is a 'person,' really. Can you provide scripture on this one as well.]
Yes Apak, here are a few scriptures to correct your grievous error on the Holy Spirit.
From J.P> Boyce, Abstact of Principles
V. THE HOLY SPIRIT A PERSON.
The Scriptures designate, by several very similar terms, the third personality revealed in the Godhead. He is called „the Spirit,” ” the Spirit of God,” ” the Holy Spirit,” ” my Spirit,” ” the Spirit of the Lord,” „the Spirit of Christ,” ” thy good Spirit,” ” the Spirit of glory, „the Spirit of grace,” ” the Spirit of knowledge and understanding, the Spirit of counsel and might, the Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord,” „the Holy Spirit of promise,” „the Spirit of truth,” and „the Spirit of wisdom.” Christ also called him „the Comforter,” and „another Comforter.”
The divine Spirit, thus denominated, must either be some power or influence exerted by God, or a distinct person in the Godhead. It cannot be simply the spiritual part of God, as is the spirit in man, for God is not compounded of spirit and body. This is manifest from his immateriality. Neither can it be in any way a part of his spiritual nature, as sometimes a distinction is made in man, between his mind and spirit, or his soul and spirit. The perfect simplicity of God, which forbids all composition, makes this impossible. It is, therefore, either God himself exercising some power or influence, or a person in the Godhead. An examination of the Scripture shows that it is the latter.
1. The evidences of personal action show that the Spirit is not merely a power or influence from God, but is either God himself or a divine person.
(1.) The Scriptures speak of the Spirit as in a state of activity. Gen. 1:2; Matt. 3:16; Acts 8:39. The language in these passages may be anthropomorphic, but the state of activity taught is undoubtedly real.
(2.) They declare that the Spirit teaches and gives instruction. Luke 12:12; John 14:26; 16:8, 13, 14; Acts 10:19; 1 Cor. 12:3.
(3.) The Spirit is also spoken of by them, as a witness of Christ to his people. John 15:26.
(4.) They also assert that he witnesses to believers that they are the children of God, and becomes the earnest of their inheritance. Rom. 8:16; 2 Cor. 1:22; 5:5; Eph. 1:13, 14; 4:30.
(5.) He is spoken of as leading the sons of God. Rom. 8:14.
(6.) He is also said to dwell within them in such a way that his presence is that of God. John 14:16, 17; Rom. 8:9, 11; 1 Cor. 3:16, 17; 6:19.
(7.) We are taught that he is grieved. Eph. 4: 30.
(8.) Ananias is charged with having lied to him. Acts 5: 3.
(9.) Blasphemy against him is the unpardonable sin. Matt. 12:31, 32.
(10.) He is spoken of as resisted by men. Acts 7:51.
(11.) Also as vexed by them. Isa. 63:10.
(12.) As striving with them. Gen. 6:3.
(13.) As inspiring men. Acts 2:4; 8:29; 13:2; 15:28; 2 Pet. 1:21.
(14.) As interceding for them. Rom. 8:26, 27.
(15.) As bestowing diversities of gifts. 1 Cor. 12:4-11.
In all these cases there is personal activity, thought, and feeling. What is thus declared, cannot be true of a mere power, or influence. The only question can be, whether this person is God, distinct from any plurality of personal relations, or whether he is another personality in the divine nature.
2. The Scriptures show that he is a separate person from the Father and the Son.
(1.) It is stated that he proceeds from the Father. John 15:26. A personal being, proceeding from a person, cannot be that person himself. The proofs above given, therefore, of his personal action and emotion, show that this Spirit is another person.
(2.) He is given, or sent by the Father. John 14:16, 26; Acts 5:32, and by the Son, John 15:26; 16:7; Acts 2:33. He that is sent cannot be identical with him that sends.
(3.) He is called the Spirit of the Father. Eph. 3:16; and also the Spirit of Christ, and of the Son. Rom. 8:9; Gal. 4:6, perhaps also 2 Thess. 2:8.
(4.) The Son is said to send the Spirit from the Father. John 15:26; and God is said to send the Spirit of the Son. Gal. 4:6.
(5.) The Spirit is distinguished from the Father, and the Son, in passages which directly connect them with each other. Matt. 3:16, 17; 28:19; John 14:26; 15:26; 16:13; Acts 2:33; Eph. 2:18; 1 Cor. 12:4-6; 2 Cor. 13:14; 1 Pet. 1:2.
(6.) The personality of the Spirit is also ably argued from „the use of the personal pronouns in relation to him,” by Dr.Charles Hodge, Sys. Theol., Vol. I, p. 524. Not only are personal pronouns used by the Spirit, and of the Spirit., but there is a departure from grammatical rule, in the use of a masculine pronoun in connection with a neuter noun, unless the masculine is warranted by the fact, that a person is referred to who may be called „he.”
VI. THE HOLY SPIRIT IS GOD.
So completely do the Scriptures identify the Spirit with the Supreme God, that the fact of his personality having been established, his essential divinity will at once be admitted. In the discussion of the Trinity, therefore, the point of necessary proof as to the Spirit is his personality, while that as to the Son is his divinity. The abundant proof of the divinity of the Spirit is found :
1. In the passages which call him „the Spirit of God” and „the Spirit of the Lord,” as well as those in which God calls him „my Spirit.” These are conclusive, in like manner, as is the divinity of Christ from those which call him the Son of God. The titles „Spirit of God,” and „Spirit of the Lord,” are each used about twenty-five times in the Bible. „My Spirit” is used in reference to God’s Spirit in Gen. 6:3; Prov. 1:23; Isa. 44:3; 59:21 ; Ezek. 36:27; 39:29; Joel 2:28; Haggai 2:5; Zech. 4:6.; Matt. 12:18; Acts 2:17, 18.
2. The writers of the New Testament declare that certain things, which in the Old Testament are ascribed to Jehovah, were said by the Spirit. Compare Acts 28:25-27, and Hebrews 3:7-9, with Isaiah 6:9, and also Heb. 9:8, with Ex. 25:1, and 30:10.
3. The sacred writers of the Old Testament were the messengers of God, and spake for him, yet the influence by which they became such is called in the New Testament the Holy Ghost. Compare Luke 1:70 with 2 Peter 1:21; 2 Tim. 3:16, and Heb. 1:1 with 1 Peter 1:11; also Jer. 31:31, 33, 34, with Heb. 10:15-17.
4. The creation of the world is ascribed to the Spirit. Gen. 1: 2; Job 26:13; Ps. 104:30.
5. He is said to search, and know even the deep things of God. 1Cor. 2:10.
6. He is spoken of as omnipresent. Ps. 139:7-10, and omniscient. Ps. 139:11; 1 Cor. 2:10.
7. The divinity of the Spirit is peculiarly proved by his influences over Christ. It having been shown that Christ the Son is God, the connection of the Spirit of God with Christ, though it were only in his human nature, is a convincing proof that the Spirit, which is not a mere power of God, but a person, as we have seen above, must be also God.
(1.) In his birth. Matt. 1:18, 20; Luke 1:31-35.
(2.) Mental and spiritual influences from the Spirit were predicted. Isa. 11:2, and Isaiah 61:1.
(a) And these were fulfilled at his baptism. Matt. 3:16; John 1:33.
(b) At the time of the temptation in the wilderness. Matt. 4:1; Mark 1:12.
(c) In his preaching. Luke 4:14, 18-21.
(d) In his casting out devils. Matt. 12:28.
(3.) This spiritual influence was without measure. John 3:34.
8. The indwelling of the Spirit in the people of God is said to make them the temple of God. Compare 1 Cor. 3:16, and 6:19 with 2 Cor. 6:16, and Eph. 2:22.
9. The Spirit is expressly called God in connection with the falsehood of Ananias and Sapphira. Acts 5:3, 4, 9.
[And the last part I definitely disagree with. so you think the Holy Spirt is a 'person,' really. Can you provide scripture on this one as well.]
Yes Apak, here are a few scriptures to correct your grievous error on the Holy Spirit.
From J.P> Boyce, Abstact of Principles
V. THE HOLY SPIRIT A PERSON.
The Scriptures designate, by several very similar terms, the third personality revealed in the Godhead. He is called „the Spirit,” ” the Spirit of God,” ” the Holy Spirit,” ” my Spirit,” ” the Spirit of the Lord,” „the Spirit of Christ,” ” thy good Spirit,” ” the Spirit of glory, „the Spirit of grace,” ” the Spirit of knowledge and understanding, the Spirit of counsel and might, the Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord,” „the Holy Spirit of promise,” „the Spirit of truth,” and „the Spirit of wisdom.” Christ also called him „the Comforter,” and „another Comforter.”
The divine Spirit, thus denominated, must either be some power or influence exerted by God, or a distinct person in the Godhead. It cannot be simply the spiritual part of God, as is the spirit in man, for God is not compounded of spirit and body. This is manifest from his immateriality. Neither can it be in any way a part of his spiritual nature, as sometimes a distinction is made in man, between his mind and spirit, or his soul and spirit. The perfect simplicity of God, which forbids all composition, makes this impossible. It is, therefore, either God himself exercising some power or influence, or a person in the Godhead. An examination of the Scripture shows that it is the latter.
1. The evidences of personal action show that the Spirit is not merely a power or influence from God, but is either God himself or a divine person.
(1.) The Scriptures speak of the Spirit as in a state of activity. Gen. 1:2; Matt. 3:16; Acts 8:39. The language in these passages may be anthropomorphic, but the state of activity taught is undoubtedly real.
(2.) They declare that the Spirit teaches and gives instruction. Luke 12:12; John 14:26; 16:8, 13, 14; Acts 10:19; 1 Cor. 12:3.
(3.) The Spirit is also spoken of by them, as a witness of Christ to his people. John 15:26.
(4.) They also assert that he witnesses to believers that they are the children of God, and becomes the earnest of their inheritance. Rom. 8:16; 2 Cor. 1:22; 5:5; Eph. 1:13, 14; 4:30.
(5.) He is spoken of as leading the sons of God. Rom. 8:14.
(6.) He is also said to dwell within them in such a way that his presence is that of God. John 14:16, 17; Rom. 8:9, 11; 1 Cor. 3:16, 17; 6:19.
(7.) We are taught that he is grieved. Eph. 4: 30.
(8.) Ananias is charged with having lied to him. Acts 5: 3.
(9.) Blasphemy against him is the unpardonable sin. Matt. 12:31, 32.
(10.) He is spoken of as resisted by men. Acts 7:51.
(11.) Also as vexed by them. Isa. 63:10.
(12.) As striving with them. Gen. 6:3.
(13.) As inspiring men. Acts 2:4; 8:29; 13:2; 15:28; 2 Pet. 1:21.
(14.) As interceding for them. Rom. 8:26, 27.
(15.) As bestowing diversities of gifts. 1 Cor. 12:4-11.
In all these cases there is personal activity, thought, and feeling. What is thus declared, cannot be true of a mere power, or influence. The only question can be, whether this person is God, distinct from any plurality of personal relations, or whether he is another personality in the divine nature.
2. The Scriptures show that he is a separate person from the Father and the Son.
(1.) It is stated that he proceeds from the Father. John 15:26. A personal being, proceeding from a person, cannot be that person himself. The proofs above given, therefore, of his personal action and emotion, show that this Spirit is another person.
(2.) He is given, or sent by the Father. John 14:16, 26; Acts 5:32, and by the Son, John 15:26; 16:7; Acts 2:33. He that is sent cannot be identical with him that sends.
(3.) He is called the Spirit of the Father. Eph. 3:16; and also the Spirit of Christ, and of the Son. Rom. 8:9; Gal. 4:6, perhaps also 2 Thess. 2:8.
(4.) The Son is said to send the Spirit from the Father. John 15:26; and God is said to send the Spirit of the Son. Gal. 4:6.
(5.) The Spirit is distinguished from the Father, and the Son, in passages which directly connect them with each other. Matt. 3:16, 17; 28:19; John 14:26; 15:26; 16:13; Acts 2:33; Eph. 2:18; 1 Cor. 12:4-6; 2 Cor. 13:14; 1 Pet. 1:2.
(6.) The personality of the Spirit is also ably argued from „the use of the personal pronouns in relation to him,” by Dr.Charles Hodge, Sys. Theol., Vol. I, p. 524. Not only are personal pronouns used by the Spirit, and of the Spirit., but there is a departure from grammatical rule, in the use of a masculine pronoun in connection with a neuter noun, unless the masculine is warranted by the fact, that a person is referred to who may be called „he.”
VI. THE HOLY SPIRIT IS GOD.
So completely do the Scriptures identify the Spirit with the Supreme God, that the fact of his personality having been established, his essential divinity will at once be admitted. In the discussion of the Trinity, therefore, the point of necessary proof as to the Spirit is his personality, while that as to the Son is his divinity. The abundant proof of the divinity of the Spirit is found :
1. In the passages which call him „the Spirit of God” and „the Spirit of the Lord,” as well as those in which God calls him „my Spirit.” These are conclusive, in like manner, as is the divinity of Christ from those which call him the Son of God. The titles „Spirit of God,” and „Spirit of the Lord,” are each used about twenty-five times in the Bible. „My Spirit” is used in reference to God’s Spirit in Gen. 6:3; Prov. 1:23; Isa. 44:3; 59:21 ; Ezek. 36:27; 39:29; Joel 2:28; Haggai 2:5; Zech. 4:6.; Matt. 12:18; Acts 2:17, 18.
2. The writers of the New Testament declare that certain things, which in the Old Testament are ascribed to Jehovah, were said by the Spirit. Compare Acts 28:25-27, and Hebrews 3:7-9, with Isaiah 6:9, and also Heb. 9:8, with Ex. 25:1, and 30:10.
3. The sacred writers of the Old Testament were the messengers of God, and spake for him, yet the influence by which they became such is called in the New Testament the Holy Ghost. Compare Luke 1:70 with 2 Peter 1:21; 2 Tim. 3:16, and Heb. 1:1 with 1 Peter 1:11; also Jer. 31:31, 33, 34, with Heb. 10:15-17.
4. The creation of the world is ascribed to the Spirit. Gen. 1: 2; Job 26:13; Ps. 104:30.
5. He is said to search, and know even the deep things of God. 1Cor. 2:10.
6. He is spoken of as omnipresent. Ps. 139:7-10, and omniscient. Ps. 139:11; 1 Cor. 2:10.
7. The divinity of the Spirit is peculiarly proved by his influences over Christ. It having been shown that Christ the Son is God, the connection of the Spirit of God with Christ, though it were only in his human nature, is a convincing proof that the Spirit, which is not a mere power of God, but a person, as we have seen above, must be also God.
(1.) In his birth. Matt. 1:18, 20; Luke 1:31-35.
(2.) Mental and spiritual influences from the Spirit were predicted. Isa. 11:2, and Isaiah 61:1.
(a) And these were fulfilled at his baptism. Matt. 3:16; John 1:33.
(b) At the time of the temptation in the wilderness. Matt. 4:1; Mark 1:12.
(c) In his preaching. Luke 4:14, 18-21.
(d) In his casting out devils. Matt. 12:28.
(3.) This spiritual influence was without measure. John 3:34.
8. The indwelling of the Spirit in the people of God is said to make them the temple of God. Compare 1 Cor. 3:16, and 6:19 with 2 Cor. 6:16, and Eph. 2:22.
9. The Spirit is expressly called God in connection with the falsehood of Ananias and Sapphira. Acts 5:3, 4, 9.
Anthony D'Arienzo
Well-Known Member
26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
The Apostle Paul is doing a masterful presentation of setting before the ears and minds of the people the true and living God , who was unknown to them.
He let's them know that God is omnipresent and will save any who repent and believe the gospel command;
30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
Jeff Wiebe
Member
Jeremiah 29:13 You will seek me and find me when you search for me with all your heart
Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
Romans 3:10-12 KJV
[10] As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: [11] There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. [12] They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
Tecarta BibleHow do we reconcile this??
Hidden In Him
Well-Known Member
Why has He determined that every human being on earth should seek after Him if only those He chooses to save will be?
@Anthony D'Arienzo before you wear your fingers down to the bone, I think you need to add the @ symbol before my handle. I just happen to go to this thread else I would not know you responded to me, with a such an avalanche. I guess this volume of 'stuff' was meant to overwhelm with some useful information that would edify. It is more like a load of wasteful energy on your part. You could have helped yourself by slowing down and identifying one subject to speak on, at a time. Progress can then be made on both sides of a conversation if that is your goal. I guess you do not want a conversation at all, right?
Second, I cannot respond to your posts as they cover a tome of data. Do you really think I can do any justice to your outrageous dumping of data that incidentally is all over the page with mixed ideas and scripture that is misaligned with them?
Seeing I will be offline for a bit and will sign off here soon, let me try and regroup your posts to one idea at this point, that you say the Holy Spirit is a person. I do believe you parrot a bit and really rely on other nonsense sources, other than your own words for your support. I wonder if you know if what you parrot is really true or not? It's a rhetorical question..
Now let me make this clear. There is NO EXPLICIT scripture saying that the Holy Spirit is a person let alone a 3rd person of some divisive hypothesis that you truly believe in.
There is however several scripture that EXPLICITY say that the Holy spirit is the expressive power or God's life force that is extended into this world through creation and in chosen people, that Jesus now partakes of. This spirit has attributes and functions that serve God's intentions and purposes.
See if you can see what I mean in the following scripture as an assignment if you will. I will be happy to go over what you have found when I get back online in several days.
Micah 3:8, 2 Tim 1:7. Luke 1:35. 4:41, Acts 1:8; 10:38, Romans 5:19..
Also notice that Jesus NEVER spoke of the Holy Spirit, as a person....or anything else
Notice that all of Paul's salutations never mentioned the Holy Spirit. Paul never preached a separate spirit or entity apart for God and his Son, as Jesus and every believer has this power of God's own spirit in degrees? I wonder why...because the spirit of God is not another person...It is a major part of God himself...only one person not two or three. God is the source of it and he owns it. Christ and us are all partakers on the same one Spirit. Only one Spirit of God that is its source. Not another independent spirit running around in the ether.
When the (Holy) spirit is sad or grieves it means that God himself is sad or grieves. Not another 'person' is grieving...this type of ignorant thinking originated in history by pagan teachers that stuck with the masses...are you one of these?
Until later
APAK
Second, I cannot respond to your posts as they cover a tome of data. Do you really think I can do any justice to your outrageous dumping of data that incidentally is all over the page with mixed ideas and scripture that is misaligned with them?
Seeing I will be offline for a bit and will sign off here soon, let me try and regroup your posts to one idea at this point, that you say the Holy Spirit is a person. I do believe you parrot a bit and really rely on other nonsense sources, other than your own words for your support. I wonder if you know if what you parrot is really true or not? It's a rhetorical question..
Now let me make this clear. There is NO EXPLICIT scripture saying that the Holy Spirit is a person let alone a 3rd person of some divisive hypothesis that you truly believe in.
There is however several scripture that EXPLICITY say that the Holy spirit is the expressive power or God's life force that is extended into this world through creation and in chosen people, that Jesus now partakes of. This spirit has attributes and functions that serve God's intentions and purposes.
See if you can see what I mean in the following scripture as an assignment if you will. I will be happy to go over what you have found when I get back online in several days.
Micah 3:8, 2 Tim 1:7. Luke 1:35. 4:41, Acts 1:8; 10:38, Romans 5:19..
Also notice that Jesus NEVER spoke of the Holy Spirit, as a person....or anything else
Notice that all of Paul's salutations never mentioned the Holy Spirit. Paul never preached a separate spirit or entity apart for God and his Son, as Jesus and every believer has this power of God's own spirit in degrees? I wonder why...because the spirit of God is not another person...It is a major part of God himself...only one person not two or three. God is the source of it and he owns it. Christ and us are all partakers on the same one Spirit. Only one Spirit of God that is its source. Not another independent spirit running around in the ether.
When the (Holy) spirit is sad or grieves it means that God himself is sad or grieves. Not another 'person' is grieving...this type of ignorant thinking originated in history by pagan teachers that stuck with the masses...are you one of these?
Until later
APAK
Anthony D'Arienzo
Well-Known Member
All men are responsible to worship God. It was God who scattered the people and the language to begin with. God has elected persons all over the earth. He will seek and save everyone he intends to save.
Paul was doing his part in his time, like this;
44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.
45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming.
46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.
47 For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.
48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
Anthony D'Arienzo
Well-Known Member
APAK, @Anthony D'Arienzo[/USER] [ before you wear your fingers down to the bone, I think you need to add the @ symbol before my handle. I just happen to go to this thread else I would not know you responded to me, with a such an avalanche. I guess this volume of 'stuff' was meant to overwhelm with some useful information that would edify. It is more like a load of wasteful energy on your part. You could have helped yourself by slowing down and identifying one subject to speak on, at a time. Progress can then be made on both sides of a conversation if that is your goal. I guess you do not want a conversation at all, right?]
You asked for scriptures on the fact that God the Holy Spirit is a Person...A Divine person...i gave you a few
You asked for scriptures on the fact that God the Holy Spirit is a Person...A Divine person...i gave you a few
Hidden In Him
Well-Known Member
Anthony, that's a dodge. Answer my question please. Why has He determined that every human being on earth should seek after Him if only those He chooses to save will be?
Anthony D'Arienzo
Well-Known Member
apak,
[Second, I cannot respond to your posts as they cover a tome of data. Do you really think I can do any justice to your outrageous dumping of data that incidentally is all over the page with mixed ideas and scripture that is misaligned with them?]
This subject is vital. Do not ignore it. Take your time and come to grips with these verses before going forward. You need to address this for your own soul.
[Second, I cannot respond to your posts as they cover a tome of data. Do you really think I can do any justice to your outrageous dumping of data that incidentally is all over the page with mixed ideas and scripture that is misaligned with them?]
This subject is vital. Do not ignore it. Take your time and come to grips with these verses before going forward. You need to address this for your own soul.
Anthony D'Arienzo
Well-Known Member
apak,
[Seeing I will be offline for a bit and will sign off here soon, let me try and regroup your posts to one idea at this point, that you say the Holy Spirit is a person. I do believe you parrot a bit and really rely on other nonsense sources, other than your own words for your support. I wonder if you know if what you parrot is really true or not? It's a rhetorical question..
Now let me make this clear. There is NO EXPLICIT scripture saying that the Holy Spirit is a person let alone a 3rd person of some divisive hypothesis that you truly believe in.
There is however several scripture that EXPLICITY say that the Holy spirit is the expressive power or God's life force that is extended into this world through creation and in chosen people, that Jesus now partakes of. This spirit has attributes and functions that serve God's intentions and purposes.]
this sounds like the error of Charles russell and the JW'S
So you are not yet a Christian? that explains it.
[Seeing I will be offline for a bit and will sign off here soon, let me try and regroup your posts to one idea at this point, that you say the Holy Spirit is a person. I do believe you parrot a bit and really rely on other nonsense sources, other than your own words for your support. I wonder if you know if what you parrot is really true or not? It's a rhetorical question..
Now let me make this clear. There is NO EXPLICIT scripture saying that the Holy Spirit is a person let alone a 3rd person of some divisive hypothesis that you truly believe in.
There is however several scripture that EXPLICITY say that the Holy spirit is the expressive power or God's life force that is extended into this world through creation and in chosen people, that Jesus now partakes of. This spirit has attributes and functions that serve God's intentions and purposes.]
this sounds like the error of Charles russell and the JW'S
So you are not yet a Christian? that explains it.
Anthony D'Arienzo
Well-Known Member
apak,
[ Also notice that Jesus NEVER spoke of the Holy Spirit, as a person....or anything else]
sure he did, jn 14, 15, 16...another Comforter, allos...another of the same kind
[ Also notice that Jesus NEVER spoke of the Holy Spirit, as a person....or anything else]
sure he did, jn 14, 15, 16...another Comforter, allos...another of the same kind
Anthony D'Arienzo
Well-Known Member
[Notice that all of Paul's salutations never mentioned the Holy Spirit. Paul never preached a separate spirit or entity apart for God and his Son, as Jesus and every believer has this power of God's own spirit in degrees? I wonder why...because the spirit of God is not another person...It is a major part of God himself...only one person not two or three. God is the source of it and he owns it. Christ and us are all partakers on the same one Spirit. Only one Spirit of God that is its source. Not another independent spirit running around in the ether.
When the (Holy) spirit is sad or grieves it means that God himself is sad or grieves. Not another 'person' is grieving...this type of ignorant thinking originated in history by pagan teachers that stuck with the masses...are you one of these?]
Sorry you are not yet a Christian, but perhaps when you study the verses offered truth will come to your house
All biblical Christians know there is one God who is three Divine persons. To deny this is to deny the faith.
What i and others offered here is the historic faith which you deny because of this;
10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
romans 8:
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
When the (Holy) spirit is sad or grieves it means that God himself is sad or grieves. Not another 'person' is grieving...this type of ignorant thinking originated in history by pagan teachers that stuck with the masses...are you one of these?]
Sorry you are not yet a Christian, but perhaps when you study the verses offered truth will come to your house
All biblical Christians know there is one God who is three Divine persons. To deny this is to deny the faith.
What i and others offered here is the historic faith which you deny because of this;
10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
romans 8:
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Anthony D'Arienzo
Well-Known Member
it was not a dodge at all, but biblical truth. i think you are not understanding verse 26.....26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth,
and hath determined the times before appointed,
and the bounds of their habitation;
As I said God has determined the time, and bounds of their habitation...when they lived and who they are
however they are still responsible as they and their forefathers turned from the true knowledge of God years earlier
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
Men are truth suppressors and the gospel is the is the means to save some of them. It does not say that God has ordained all men ever born to seek Him.
Many have lived and died and never heard about Jesus
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
@Anthony D'Arienzo
How does your position deal with scriptures like:
Ezekiel 18:23
Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign LORD. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?
Ezekiel 18:32
For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent and live
Ezekiel 33:11
Say to them, 'As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live. Turn! Turn from your evil ways! Why will you die, people of Israel?'
How do Calvinists explain these verses in light of Unconditional Election and Irresistable Grace?
How does your position deal with scriptures like:
Ezekiel 18:23
Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign LORD. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?
Ezekiel 18:32
For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent and live
Ezekiel 33:11
Say to them, 'As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live. Turn! Turn from your evil ways! Why will you die, people of Israel?'
How do Calvinists explain these verses in light of Unconditional Election and Irresistable Grace?
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