Is the kingdom of God within me, too?

[ScottA]

I agree with you, Scott. :)

I've learnt about multiple translations, and that the more
popular one is "among", instead of "within".

I guess that the main objection is : How could the kingdom of God
possibly be "within" these Pharisees?

My question is: How could the kingdom of God
possibly be "among" these Pharisees?

In my humble opinion, the most important question, in the context
of Luke 17:20–21, and also considering the fact that Jesus the Christ
had said that to these Pharisees before his resurrection, is :

OBJECTION --
How could the kingdom of God possibly be "among"
anybody else than Jesus' closest disciples,
because at this moment there were no Christians yet. :)

The way I see it, there are two reasons why the "within"
is correct, and the "among" is wrong in Luke 17:20–21 only.

If we assume, despite the above OBJECTION, that what Jesus the Christ
meant was that the kingdom of God were to be among these Pharisees,
then we could also say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or ‘There it is!’
because the kingdom of God would have come with things
that can be observed, like with these Pharisees and a place where they are:
‘ Look, the kingdom of God is there, among these Pharisees! ’

Because, as Jesus the Christ said, the kingdom of God will not come
with things that can be observed, then in my humble opinion,
it will come to us un-observed, hidden deep within us,
the baptized Christians, exactly like it is illustrated in
the Parable of the Leaven :

What is the meaning of the Parable of the Leaven? | GotQuestions.org

What is the meaning of the Parable of the Leaven? Why did Jesus often speak using parables instead of teaching more clearly?

www.gotquestions.org

View attachment 39791


The Parable of the Leaven speaks about the kingdom of Heaven,
and not about the kingdom of God. Is the kingdom of Heaven
something else than the kingdom of God?

I doubt.

God lives in Heaven, and therefore Heaven is the kingdom of God. :)

From GOTQUESTIONS.org : " In the current age, the kingdom
of Heaven is spiritual, existing within the hearts of believers. "

So, why Jesus the Christ said that the kingdom of God
already is within these Pharisees?

In my humble opinion, it is because all humans, without exception,
have a God-given soul, which isn't a thing that can be observed.

However, this God-given soul within these Pharisees, and within
all non-Christians, as a "Passport to the Heavenly Kingdom of God"
still needs to be stamped with the "Permanent Resident Visa"
by Jesus within our heart, for our inner journey to be fully successful.

www.christianityboard.com/threads/is-the-kingdom-of-god-within-me-too.60435/post-1743749/

It is not so much a matter of whether the correct word is "within" or "among", but rather what is meant by "the kingdom of God."

The message then is not so much a matter of "finding" the kingdom of God, or being in or out of it, but first realizing that in or out we are under His rule and dominion--which yes, is rightly stated as being His "kingdom." It's all His.

So...the message, once understanding the greater and actual context, is to realize whose hands we are in when in our hour of decision, whether to turn into God, or away. Which, again, yes, we can do "within."

 

[A shy girl Chloë]

@Niblo

Not at all, it is partially correct at GotQuestions.com.

I would imagine that devout Muslims also think that Christianity is partially correct.

I have never heard that any religion would claim being the second best religion.

My dear brother Niblo, would you agree that Christianity is at least partially correct?

My dear brother Niblo, would you agree that your religion is the best religion,
and that the Prophet Muhammad, Peace be upon Him, was the last true,
and the greatest Prophet of the God of Abraham, and that the Prophet Jesus
was at least partially correct?

 

[ScottA]

So, what had happened with all the people who had died before Christ Jesus was born?

First let me say-- You are asking all the right questions, and certainly asking is the best approach--not that there are not dangers, and more false than true who would answer. Remember--your best Guide..."is within you."

That is a big question, as is the answer: Time is an illusion (even scientifically). In other words, there would seem to be a timeline with this world and humankind, but there is no timeline with God...and your question is not so much about the times of humankind, but about the actual terms of God...who "is the same yesterday, today, and forever." Which means, in order to answer your question, I must translate what is being asked of times into what is timeless, and you will need to follow along without stumbling upon the common terms associated with time.

The answer then, is that Christ came in His time and "finished" His work for all time. Meaning that all who lived and died before Jesus "finished", God has seen to before-the-fact, and all who were and are born after, He is dealing with after-the-fact.

If you have not before noticed, several things in the gospels are even given in what would otherwise be out of proper or commonly understood tense. For example, when Paul wrote that he (making himself an example of what is true of us all) "was crucified with Christ"-- it is not that he went to the cross with him in any worldly timeframe, but rather according to the actual time of salvation wherein all who are "in Christ", both the dead and the living, and even the yet to be born, "were" saved by His one act on the cross. Well--kind of. Not to complicate matters, but to further express the reality of God and these events of God actually being timeless--in that reality, the actual truth is just as it is also written, as being, "before the foundation of the world."

To which there are many details and changes that invariably occur in the common understanding of what is written according to the times of this world and would be timeline, and are only understood fully in spirit. Most can't or won't go there--but you asked. And just so you know why this is perhaps different than you have ever heard, is because the truth has purposely been "here a little, there a little" until the times of the gentiles (all peoples) are fulfilled; when "the mystery of God would be finished"(Revelation 10:7), which was foretold not to come until just before the sounding of the seventh angel. This is that time. Then comes the end.

 

[APAK]

@dev553344

View attachment 39717


“Jesus was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, and he answered, “The kingdom of God will not come with things that can be observed; nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or ‘There it is!’ For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you.” — Luke 17:20–21

Is the kingdom of God within me, too?​

Cloe: Welcome and hello

Short answer:

If you are a genuine believer and a child of God possessing the spirit of Jesus within you, yes, the Kingdom is within you, because the Holy Spirit is then also within you. I suspect very few Pharisees in physical sight or contact of Jesus our Christ would ever possess the Kingdom in their lives.

Now a brief overview of the cited scripture in Luke 17:20-21...

The Kingdom is in the midst, among, near you, not within you as the KJV translates it in err.

Yahshua is at the epicenter and the King of the Kingdom of his Father; although not realized at that time. And then still not realized but by only a few even when Christ died on the Cross.

He is the key and the founder of his Father’s Kingdom. In context, when spoken in scripture, Yahshua was saying, you have seen and heard of me doing miracles, the healings, the extraction of possessive demons etc. The Kingdom is about miracles, and more will occur in the future. And the major miracle with be soon, after I die and my Father raises me to new life of immortality, then at the Day of Pentecost, transforming people into true children of God when his Holy spirit arrives and enters them through Yahshua’s own spirit; the core of the Kingdom.

And as for many, who think this Kingdom of Heaven of God is today and/or tomorrow a physical environment, they are truly mistaken. It is spiritual and those who live there today and/ or tomorrow, in that state and place are all spiritual. All chosen will eventually live in immortal bodies and invisible to this fallen world that is slated for complete and utter destruction.

 

[A shy girl Chloë]

The Kingdom is in the midst, among, near you, not within you as the KJV translates it in ERROR.

The KJV translates it in ERROR ?? ​

​

So, why haven't they corrected it by now ?​

 

[APAK]

The KJV translates it in ERROR ?? ​

​

So, why haven't they corrected it by now ?​

Well, like many other mis-translations from other scribes, and not only from the KJ folks. Fortunately Cloe, many other translations have corrected this particular scripture in question.

If you probe into scripture more closely and then compare the source language...Greek etc., with their transliterated English versions, you will find a large field of glaring errors. I would not get too flustered with it, just know the differences....

If you are serious in studying the Bible, you will experience and know of these flaws as par for the Biblical course of discovery and adventure.

I would say that the KJV and its supporters will not change many of their errors out of pride and ignorance...IMO

 

[A shy girl Chloë]

@Niblo

I would say that the KJV and its supporters will not change many of their errors out of pride and ignorance...IMO

Many of their errors ; many of their errors ... Many, many, many ...

Now I understand why Muslims think that Christianity is partially correct :

Christianityboard.com/threads/is-the-kingdom-of-god-within-me-too.60435/post-1744523/

 

[Fred J]

Responding to Niblo's post #27, thank you

Hi there, actually you can reach out to Sam Shamoun or Christian Prince in YouTube or Skype. They, who know thoroughly much more than 72 virgins to explain using your very islamic foundation.

This is a Bible Discussion Forum, with born again believers fellowshipping, even according to the Holy Bible we are born again by.

 

[Fred J]

The following was written by an Anglican subscriber – by the name of Invictus – in an Anglican forum (in answer to a fellow Anglican):

‘If you ask a Muslim, “is God the one who revealed Himself to Abraham?”, he would say, “yes, this is who God is”.

‘A Christian (or a Jew) would say the same.

‘If you ask a Muslim, “is God the one who gave Moses the Law at Sinai?”, he would say, “yes that is who God is”.

‘A Christian (or a Jew) would say the same.

‘If you ask a Muslim, “is God the one who sent Jesus, the Messiah?”, he would say, “yes, that is who God is”.

‘A Christian would say the same.

‘Likewise, if you ask a Muslim, “is God omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, eternal, and ever the same?”, he would say, “yes, those are God’s attributes”.

‘A Christian would say the same.

‘If you ask a Muslim, “is God the creator, upholder, ruler, and judge of the world, in this life and next?”, he would say, “yes, those are God’s attributes”.

‘A Christian would say the same.

‘(….) …. on what grounds do you claim that the object of worship in Christianity and Islam consists of different Gods? That doesn’t make any sense.’

Agreed.

As for my future: I can only repeat;

The Beloved (Exalted is He) knows best.

Blessings.

First of all, these things you confess of, muhammed got this and copied from the Jews and Christians he interacted with then.

Since, they were the actual people of the book, the Jew having the 'Torah' and the Christians having the 'Injil'.

Angel Gabriel did instruct muhammad in the cave, to go consult and learn from these people of the book.

If you claim muslims confess the same things that Christians confess, because we have the same GOD.

Therefore, as a muslim yourself, can you confess that 'Isa' physically died on the Cross that day?

 

[Fred J]

Romans9:4&5 have been spoken after Jesus was crucified.

Who do you think Apostle Paul was referring to?

I think that the main point of my question: " Is the kingdom of God within me, too? "

The explanation to that was further down in my same post and whether you qualify?

Or, perhaps you got lost somewhere reading down the line i guess.

i do perceive the attention you're getting and probably overwhelming, whether do you have time to read, listen and pay attention?

having been asked by an Agnostic in the context of Luke 17:20–21, is that Jesus' answer
had been specifically addressed to the Pharisees, and before Jesus was crucified.

Well, in Romans9:4&5, Apostle Paul was also mainly referring to those unsaved Pharisees too. Who are apparently his kinsmen as well one with the Israelites.

Jesus also said in regards them, saying, "Is it not written in your Law, I said, Ye are gods? If HE called them gods, unto whom the word of GOD came, and the Scripture cannot be broken; ............"

 

[Fred J]

Greetings,

Concerning the Myth of the 72 Virgins:

The Qur’an refers to Heaven as ‘al-janna’, meaning ‘the garden’. It is the home of the righteous; the home of Peace.

M.A.S. Abdel Haleem – King Fahd Professor of Islamic Studies at the School of Oriental and African Studies, University of London – writes:

‘Full knowledge of the real nature of the rewards of the righteous, the Qur’an says, ‘is kept hidden’, it has not been given to any human. The same verbal form is used in Arabic to negate such knowledge – la ta‘lamu – applies to the present and to the future: fa lā ta‘lamu nafsun mā ‘ukhfiya lahum min qurrati a‘yūnin' (No soul knows what joy is laid up for them secretly as a reward for what they were doing.)

‘No discomfort or ill health will result from eating and drinking there. The drink is pure. It neither dulls their senses nor causes intoxication (37:47); it causes no headaches (56:19); it is ‘a cup which does not lead to any idle talk or sin’ (52:23).

‘In these pleasing surroundings stand ‘good, peaceful homes’ (9:72) with ‘lofty dwellings built for them, one above the other, graced with flowing streams’ (39:20). There are detailed descriptions of these goodly dwellings (e.g. 55:52–72; 56:15–34; and 88:13–16) – raised couches upholstered in brocade, goblets placed ready, cushions arranged and carpets outspread. We see the dwellers in pleasant company: ‘they will enter perpetual gardens, along with their righteous ancestors, spouses, and descendants’ (13:23; and 52:20–1) adorned in green silk. They sit on couches in a relaxed manner, engaged in pleasant conversation, recalling happy memories, absorbed in rejoicing; their faces shining, laughing and joyous (80:38–9).

‘There is no overt mention in the Qur’an of sex taking place between spouses in janna, although the relationship is lawful between spouses and the Qur’an does not shy away from mentioning it in the context of this world. The mutual love (‘uruban) between spouses in the garden (56:37–8) epitomises the most fulfilling aspect of the relationship between spouses as expressed in the Qur’an: ‘Another of His signs is that He created spouses from among yourselves for you to live with in tranquillity: He ordained love and kindness between you (30:21).’ (‘Understanding the Qur’an – Themes and Style’).

The notion that martyrs in Heaven will be given seventy-two virgins is not found in the Qur’an.

Allāh (subḥānahu ūta'āla) says:

‘But those mindful of Allāh will be in a safe place amid Gardens and springs, clothed in silk and fine brocade, facing one another: and we shall marry them to fair ones having beautiful eyes.’ (Al-Dukhan: 52-54).

The text ‘and we shall marry them to fair ones having beautiful eyes’ renders: ‘wazawwajnāhum biḥūrin ʿīnin.’

Sūrah ‘Al-Tur: 20; says likewise:

‘…..and we shall marry them to fair ones having beautiful eyes (‘wazawwajnāhum biḥūrin ʿīnin.)’

In these ʾāyāt the word biḥūrin comes from ‘ḥūri’; and can be applied to both men and women.

In other words, men will marry fair companions who are female; and women will marry fair companions who are male.

Blessings.

Very sorry, this not a quran discussion forum.

To tell you the truth, islam is not the final revelation, nor had a beginning.

Historically and until today, your scholars make up, change and remove a lot of things from the original arabic text.

According to your teaching, muslims are not ashamed to lie and deceive us infidels.

Moreover, having a conversation with us .Jews and Christians is forbidden in islam, and if you do, you're 'kofar'.

islam teaches, when muslims are in minority, they are to live at peace with the 'infidels', until they reach the majority, then the time has come to force islam with the sword.

On the other hand, Christianity, 600 years before islam, already received the 'Alpha' and the 'Omega', the 'Beginning' and the 'End'.

The beginning for us is, 'Genesis', and the end for us is, 'Revelation'.

Christians are the actual final revelation to the world, from the Jews who started from Genesis, and hence GOD put them on hold.

For,, Christians already received the Gospel to the final Book of Revelation with it's ending, from Jesus' Apostle John.

 

[Lambano]

I think that the main point of my question: " Is the kingdom of God within me, too? "
having been asked by an Agnostic in the context of Luke 17:20–21, is that Jesus' answer
had been specifically addressed to the Pharisees, and before Jesus was crucified.

So, Jesus answered that the Kingdom of God is an internal thing. We're not told if the Pharisees had whatever that internal thingy is, but we are told that some of them decided to follow Jesus. You can read about one of them named Nicodemus in the gospel of John, chapter 3. You may recognize verse 16.

Your question was asked as an Agnostic. My answer was the answer of a Christian, inviting you to follow the one who apparently knew something about the Kingdom, in the hope of finding the Kingdom within you, as best as I can understand it. Both in the Now and in the Yet To Come.

Hey, it's what I do, y'know?

The invitation stands. I'll leave it open for you.

 

[WalterandDebbie]

@Niblo


Many of their errors ; many of their errors ... Many, many, many ...

Now I understand why Muslims think that Christianity is partially correct :

Christianityboard.com/threads/is-the-kingdom-of-god-within-me-too.60435/post-1744523/

Good morning Ce, How are you all? What Is True Conversion?

Love, Walter And Debbie

 

[Karl Peters]

Had these Pharisees acknowledged Jesus as the Christ
and as the King before Jesus was crucified?

I think that the main point of my question: " Is the kingdom of God within me, too? "
having been asked by an Agnostic in the context of Luke 17:20–21, is that Jesus' answer
had been specifically addressed to the Pharisees, and before Jesus was crucified.

“Jesus was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, and he answered, “The kingdom of God will not come with things that can be observed; nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or ‘There it is!’ For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you.” — Luke 17:20–21

The problem is not the question, " Is the kingdom of God within me, too? " - the problem is getting the answer, right?

It was the problem the Pharisees had, and not jut them, but it is the problem that people in general have.

Even Christians have this problem, yet why?

My daughter got me a cap and had written on it, "How do I know God exists? I asked Him."

She wrote that because she knows me. That is exactly how I know the God exists and He is the One we call Jesus Christ, and even the Jesus Christ we read about in the Bible who is also the Word of God and the LORD OR LORDS AND KING OF KINGS, who has a kingdom, not or this realm, but is a heavenly or spiritual kingdom. I mean to tell you that I know only know Him personally but also the angelic beings that serve Him. He gave me ears to hear, and got them working for me, so I can hear with my spiritual ears, when I pay attention, and so I become aware of both good and evil.

Now who do those dedicated to Islam know? Even to many Christian don't seem to know the One they call Jesus Christ, as their Lord, whom they should be hearing from and getting instructions from. And not just instructions, but also widsom, friendship, and those words spoken to us He loves that go, "I love you."

He once told me:

AS INSTRUCTIONS ARE GIVEN TO A SERVANT, AND WISDOM AND PARABLES TO A SON, AND AS JOKES ARE GIVEN TO A FRIEND, SO I LOVE YOU IS SAID TO A BRIDE.

Those words above and soooooo many others, because I hear from Him on those days that were called, "Today", when I heard Him. And I found those words in me, speaking to me personally!

Indeed the most common words I hear from Him are, "Karl, I love you."

The first words I heard Him tell me were, "Read Your Bible", and I believe that was a response to me asking to hear from Him about a month or two before. He had set up something I though might be from God, before I knew Him, so I was speaking loudly in my front yard telling God, "I am listening but I can't hear you." So He got through to me early one morning right after I woke up, with those words, "READ YOUR BIBLE", which sounded audible, but were not, and which hit me like a strike to the side of the head. So read the Bible found out that His words came from which in me, and not via an audible voice!

I figured that out a month of so after finishing the Bible when I was driving to work on day. I got to thinking that if God knows what I am thinking then I could ask Him a question inside me, and since nobody would put in a one way telephone line, He must answer me inside me also!

I tested this out while driving to work one day. I asked Him which lane of the freeway I should be in, because it didn't seem to make a difference. But when I asked Him the next thought I got was, "you're ok.", which seemed just like my thought but why did it come across "you're"? If it was me, shouldn't it come back "I'm, ok?" So I tried it again and got the same answer. But when a number of big truck were coming down the on ramp in front of me, so I was thinking to get over to the left, I asked Him again. The thought that came back to me was "Get in the right lane".

OH - that really got me upset! I did want to be in the right lane I wanted to be in the left lanes to avoid those trucks and the traffic they would cause. But then I heard inside me a very calm response when I was upset and it was, "Well, do you want to listen to me or not?"

So I got in the right lane, because someone, not me but perhaps God because that was who I had asked, had told me to get in the right lane. And when I did every truck in front of me got over a lane to the left and I was now the only one in the right lane. All the left lanes slowed down and I went by everyone on the freeway. Yet more importantly I found God, and He with His words were found in me!

So I started talking to Him everyday!! Who wouldn't want to talk to God every single day if they believed that He was there with them?

Yet I have meet Christian pastors, no less, that while running a Christian church don't hardly ever hear from Him???

One Christian pastor told me He had only heard that small voice of the Lord 3 times in his life. Another Christian pastor who had run a church for years, told me that he had not heard the small voice of the Lord for over thirteen years?

Which seems to be why He has me come to this Christian forum regularly to try and get "Christians" (who He calls His people) to listen to Him!!!

If someone wants to turn to Islam, well He put before us right and wrong and good and evil, with the instruction to choose. Yet you can choose wrong and still call yourself a Christian! You don't have to seek Him, and His voice, which is found in you. And You don't have to seek first the Kingdom of God - meaning seeking the King and those heavenly beings that serve Him. There a plenty of demon willing to control your thinking, and it is easy to see that more seem to choose that than God! Still there will be a great multitude saved and that from every nation - even those nations whose leaders decide not to seek Jesus Christ!! And perhaps you might be think I am talking about Islamic nations? Well yes, them too. But also our nation, the good old USA, Today!

Still the more we pray for our leaders, like told to do in the Bible, the more our Lord Jesus Christ will get through to our leaders! So the question shy girl has - " Is the kingdom of God within me, too? " - is the correct question, but who is willing to listen for the answer inside them?

Will you get in the right lane?

 

[A shy girl Chloë]

I would say that the KJV and its supporters will not change many of their errors out of pride and ignorance...IMO

Is it even possible that you might be proud and ignorant?

 

[JohnDB]

Is it even possible that you might be proud and ignorant?

Well,
If you perform an independent study of how the English translated scriptures were made...the history and etc...
AND
Then understand completely all the reasons why Stephan ended up stoned to death and became the first martyr...

There's many acceptable modern translations available.
I have my favorite translations because I understand their translation process. And I more readily understand the original language used to convey what is said.

Currently the KJV is without royalties imposed upon its usage. But since it was a collaborative work between Oxford and Cambridge University in England century and a half after the original 1611 KJV was created there's no one grabbing any royalties and the Church of England has moved on to more modern translations anyway.

 

[APAK]

Is it even possible that you might be proud and ignorant?

Ignorance maybe, until the truth is found and used and then spread to others. I stay humble, as humanly possible, in these affairs even when the truth is known and so clear, and not just in Biblical matters.

On the video you inserted...the speaker lacks one critical ingredient in his lecture. He should speak to understanding scripture by pray and with the Holy Spirit, invoked. This must be added and makes for the perfect perfect scripture or Bible.

Secondly, he quoted the Rev 22:18 verse and lacks to bring context into the discussion for it. This is one of the main errors of those studying scripture and he seems to one of them.

 

[Behold]

Is the kingdom of God within me, too?

If you are born again, then Yes.

THe KOG is God's Light, Righteousness, Power, and Truth.
Its God and Christ..
Its Them.
They are the KOG...so, when we are born again spiritually by the Holy Spirit.. .INTO God, who is, "A Spirit".. then we have entered His Kingdom.
Its a Kingdom of LIGHT..

"God exist IN LIGHT"... and Jesus "Is the LIGHT of the World" and the born again, have spiritually become "Children of THE Light".

That Light Is Christ, Is God, is the Holy Spirit, is their KINGDOM. Its a Kingdom of Righteousness..

This is why the NT teaches that when we are born again.... (not water baptized)(not the Catholic nonsense), but when we are BORN AGAIN, we are ..."Translated from darkness (Spiritual) to LIGHT" = Born again, into God, and that is to exist now "in Christ", in the KOG..........as "one with God".

 

[A shy girl Chloë]

" Is the kingdom of God within me, too? "

If you are born again, then Yes.

Had these Pharisees been born again before Jesus was crucified?

I think that the main point of my question: " Is the kingdom of God within me, too? "
having been asked by an Agnostic in the context of Luke 17:20–21, is that Jesus' answer
had been specifically addressed to the Pharisees before Jesus was crucified.

“Jesus was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, and he answered, “The kingdom of God will not come with things that can be observed; nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or ‘There it is!’ For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you.” — Luke 17:20–21

 

[Behold]

Had these Pharisees been born again before Jesus was crucified?

Very few of the Pharisees were born again.
See, for that to happen, they would be cast out of their temple... they would become "outcasts".
Its possible that Nicodemus trusted in Christ and later was born again... and others, later on.

So, all the pharisees could "see" was that Jesus was messing up their religious business. $$$$$$$
He was taking away their crowds and their control, and their STATUS.....and they were envious. = HATRED.

The Bible says.."who can stand before ENVY", as that mind will hang you on a Cross.
Just ask Jesus.