IS THE KINGDOM OF GOD WITHIN YOU ?

[Jennifer]

...dunno...

Ok. Me neither...

 

[hermeneutics]

Or they are still blind or lost...like the lost sheep

Mat 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
Mat 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Mat 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

This is speaking of the tribes of Israel, not just the tribe of Judea. They were lost spiritually but not physically to God and the disciples. These tribes had primarily traveled north into what is Europe and England today. Only Paul went to the Gentiles, and eventually he also went farther north.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Accusing one of attempting to justify their righteousness by fulfilling a commandment, and then pretending that keeping others is hypocrisy as well. This is EXACTLY what Paul is talking about. Yes, justifying violating God's commandments is lawlessness. Pretending that this is somehow operating by the Spirit is tantamount to blasphemy. The Spirit doesn't lead anyone to transgress God's law. The idea is ridiculous. Quoting scripture won't change that fact.

Been taking your words to heart and asking if I am a blasphemer. Do think you are right in what blasphemy is: in claiming God leads to do something and attributing it to His Spirit when it is not of Him. As you said in my saying or claiming God leads one to not keep His Righteous laws. So I am considering your words carefully and hope that is not what I do. The topic was mainly circumcision in the flesh and if it is necessary in fulfillment of the command of circumcision when one has been circumcised by the circumcision of Christ in the putting off of sins. liken it to the ongoing debate of if one has to water baptized by men if they have been baptized by Christ. If you feel both circumcisions are necessary then okay. Right now I don’t think both are necessary as I see the circumcision of Christ in the putting off of the body of sins as enough to fulfill the command of circumcision. Old Testament they easily kept this Law Of circumcision made with hands...but was it possible for them to keep God’s command of the circumcision made without hands of the heart...the operation of God by the circumcision of Christ through the putting off the body of sins. As God commanded them to create a new heart in them. To me (doesn’t mean it is right but only my understanding at this time) only God could create a New heart in them(which He does) and only God could circumcise without hands as only God can build up a temple made without hands...a habitation for and of God. Ephesians 2:22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

About father and mother ...the only point was God said one had to be willing to loose all even their on life and follow after Him. In following God First and leaving father and mother to be joined with His bride...Jesus Christ honored Mary. In pleasing God being about His Father’s business.Luke 2:48-50
[48] And when they saw him, they were amazed: and his mother said unto him, Son, why hast thou thus dealt with us? behold, thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing. [49] And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business? [50] And they understood not the saying which he spake unto them.

So you can say I am a blasphemer and you may be right. But there is also a Wide gap between man’s righteousness and God’s righteousness... making keeping the “righteous” Law of God vulnerable to whose “righteous” is the Law when the Law is Spirit. OT it was about man’s righteousness. NT is about God’s righteousness established in all things instead of establishing man.s righteousness. You commented on: 2 Corinthians 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

What stands out to me and the question I still have is: why Moses’ face and for the glory of his countenance ...which glory was to be done away:
2 Corinthians 4:5-7 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake. [6] For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. [7] But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

You might want to read these scriptures. Ephesians 6:4 1 John 3:1 Proverbs 22:6. Matthew 19:14. Proverbs 23:13-14 Colossians 3:20. I hate when parents always think they have authority over thier kids just because they bought them in this world and always have to have thier say when it comes to thier children cause they are older etc. I think that's just an excuse to control a child and get away with it, but if you read those bible verses I put there above you will see it works both ways but what people probably don't think about is parents are God's children too and they are as much as responsible for thier actions as much as thier children. Parents may have a say about thier children for being the parent but the reality is in God's eyes we are all his children and we all must obey the Lord whether parent or child because he has full authority over everyone and everything on this earth....and of course if the parents has a bad influence, it will effect thier children also....so

Proverbs 23:13-14 ...can only be read Spiritually (imo)as it gets real ugly when it is taken literal. Again ...just an opinion but God’s rod delivers a child from death. HIS rod is the only rod I know of that delivers a child from hell. “Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die. [14] Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.”
Consider also how they speak evil of God and you good...how many in the world say God promotes beating your child with a rod not seeing His rod was upon His own Son. (Hebrews 5:8-9), (Isaiah 53:4-5)

Hebrews 12:9-10 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? [10] For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.

Revelation 2:27-28 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father. [28] And I will give him the morning star.

Hebrews 12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

 

[Jennifer]

Proverbs 23:13-14 ...can only be read Spiritually (imo)as it gets real ugly when it is taken literal. Again ...just an opinion but God’s rod delivers a child from death. HIS rod is the only rod I know of that delivers a child from hell. “Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die. [14] Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.”
Consider also how they speak evil of God and you good...how many in the world say God promotes beating your child with a rod not seeing His rod was upon His own Son. (Hebrews 5:8-9), (Isaiah 53:4-5)

Hebrews 12:9-10 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? [10] For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.

Revelation 2:27-28 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father. [28] And I will give him the morning star.

Hebrews 12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

Hey, I thought you said my verses helped and that you was corrected. Anyway, like I said before parents are responsible for thier actions as much as thier children are. And parents should control/abuse thier children and stop them from living a godly life...they should train the right way to go unless that means they don't care about thier children and thier life and what parent does that to thier children?

 

[Jennifer]

Mat 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
Mat 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Mat 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

This is speaking of the tribes of Israel, not just the tribe of Judea. They were lost spiritually but not physically to God and the disciples. These tribes had primarily traveled north into what is Europe and England today. Only Paul went to the Gentiles, and eventually he also went farther north.

Ok

 

[Jennifer]

Great verses there; in the end the believer's service must be Godward...

?

 

[farouk]

?

Means that we should act as before the Lord; a matter of conscience rather than to be menpleasers (Galatians 1.10).

 

[farouk]

Ok. Me neither...

Sometimes it's hard to keep up with the whole flow of the thread...

 

[farouk]

Proverbs 23:13-14 ...can only be read Spiritually (imo)as it gets real ugly when it is taken literal. Again ...just an opinion but God’s rod delivers a child from death. HIS rod is the only rod I know of that delivers a child from hell. “Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die. [14] Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.”
Consider also how they speak evil of God and you good...how many in the world say God promotes beating your child with a rod not seeing His rod was upon His own Son. (Hebrews 5:8-9), (Isaiah 53:4-5)

Hebrews 12:9-10 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? [10] For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.

Revelation 2:27-28 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father. [28] And I will give him the morning star.

Hebrews 12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

These are general principles. The particular culture may differ from one country to another.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

These are general principles. The particular culture may differ from one country to another.

With all due respect (imo) these are not general Farouk. Hebrews 12:9-10
[9] Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? [10] For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.

fathers after our flesh which corrected us...key there ”for they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure”. Have to ask what their pleasure was. “After their pleasure” ...their pleasure being to have the world and all its ways. Look at raising children. I’m guilty of it. I wanted my children to gain the whole world and thrive in it. That was always my pleasure after the flesh...teaching my children and driving them toward a desire to have and to obtain all the greatness the world offers. Who wants their children to fail in all the world pushes as vital to maintain a long life? Correcting my children after my pleasure of obtaining of the world and lust of the eyes, pride of life ...can’t remember the others. Could give you testimonies...ugly ones of what I did to try to conform them into the world. To me this lines up with fathers not provoking their sons to wrath IN teaching their sons to run heavily headlong into the very thing God removes His children out from and sets them apart from. Can not find the verse I’m looking for and short on time, but God brings His children out from the wrath upon the world that they do not perish with it. God chastens differently after His good pleasure. God does not teach His children to cling to something temporary and passing away. His good pleasure is for His children to profit and come out from wrath and INTO LIFE. as the passage above says “subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?” His good pleasure being to give the Kingdom of God to His little children.

Sometimes fathers bear down hard on their sons in their pleasure to obtain all the world. They push and correct teaching a son is less or insane if he no longer has the same pleasure to obtain the ways the world offers. Then a son hates(loves less)the ways of an earthly father who taught him to want What is temporary, and passing away. God teaches contentment. A father after the flesh can provoke a son to wrath if teaching that son to cling to what perishes and passes away... instead of clinging to God.

different pleasures. Different correction. The rod ..that can save a son from hell (torment) is after the good pleasure of God that (even as He received of the Father) they may live.

 

[farouk]

With all due respect (imo) these are not general Farouk. Hebrews 12:9-10
[9] Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? [10] For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.

fathers after our flesh which corrected us...key there ”for they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure”. Have to ask what their pleasure was. “After their pleasure” ...their pleasure being to have the world and all its ways. Look at raising children. I’m guilty of it. I wanted my children to gain the whole world and thrive in it. That was always my pleasure after the flesh...teaching my children and driving them toward a desire to have and to obtain all the greatness the world offers. Who wants their children to fail in all the world pushes as vital to maintain a long life? Correcting my children after my pleasure of obtaining of the world and lust of the eyes, pride of life ...can’t remember the others. Could give you testimonies...ugly ones of what I did to try to conform them into the world. To me this lines up with fathers not provoking their sons to wrath IN teaching their sons to run heavily headlong into the very thing God removes His children out from and sets them apart from. Can not find the verse I’m looking for and short on time, but God brings His children out from the wrath upon the world that they do not perish with it. God chastens differently after His good pleasure. God does not teach His children to cling to something temporary and passing away. His good pleasure is for His children to profit and come out from wrath and INTO LIFE. as the passage above says “subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?” His good pleasure being to give the Kingdom of God to His little children.

Sometimes fathers bear down hard on their sons in their pleasure to obtain all the world. They push and correct teaching a son is less or insane if he no longer has the same pleasure to obtain the ways the world offers. Then a son hates(loves less)the ways of an earthly father who taught him to want What is temporary, and passing away. God teaches contentment. A father after the flesh can provoke a son to wrath if teaching that son to cling to what perishes and passes away... instead of clinging to God.

different pleasures. Different correction. The rod ..that can save a son from hell (torment) is after the good pleasure of God that (even as He received of the Father) they may live.

I was referring to your comment on Proverbs 23. The mistake would be to assume that the secular culture of North America applies universally; in some parts of the world moderate chastisement is not viewed as abusive.

 

[shnarkle]

The topic was mainly circumcision in the flesh and if it is necessary in fulfillment of the command of circumcision when one has been circumcised by the circumcision of Christ in the putting off of sins.

You're leaving out the most critical element of the whole issue in Paul's letters, i.e. justification. Why are they insisting on circumcision? They are insisting on it to establish their own righteousness. This is what Paul objects to. Paul is not objecting to circumcision per se; but the reason why they are insisting on it. He states that circumicion is beneficial if one keeps the law, and one can only truly keep the law in their heart after they have become a new creature in Christ; only after the circumcision of the heart. Until then, there is no point in being circumcized, baptized, professing oneself to be a Christian, etc.

liken it to the ongoing debate of if one has to water baptized by men if they have been baptized by Christ.

Exactly. If one is born into an abundant life as a new creature, a ceremony isn't necessary, but if one is operating within a faith community, then one "fulfills all righteousness" by being baptized. Christ didn't need to be baptized, but he did it for that exact same reason. Until one is begotten from above, there is no point in being water baptized at all.

If you feel both circumcisions are necessary then okay.

You're still missing the point. It is pointless if one is not a new creature, and even if one is, it is still pointless for any number of reasons. You gave one yourself, e.g. being female.

Right now I don’t think both are necessary as I see the circumcision of Christ in the putting off of the body of sins as enough to fulfill the command of circumcision.

The circumcision of the heart is not a command to be fulfilled. It is an ontological transformation. One has become a new creation by the power of the Spirit according to God's purpose.

Old Testament they easily kept this Law Of circumcision made with hands...but was it possible for them to keep God’s command of the circumcision made without hands of the heart...the operation of God by the circumcision of Christ through the putting off the body of sins.

Again, it isn't anything that human beings do. It is something God does, and there is no reason to conclude that it didn't happen throughout history. Hebrews points out that it began with Abel.

As God commanded them to create a new heart in them.

This is unbiblical.

About father and mother ...the only point was God said one had to be willing to loose all even their on life and follow after Him. In following God First and leaving father and mother to be joined with His bride...Jesus Christ honored Mary. In pleasing God being about His Father’s business.Luke 2:48-50
[48] And when they saw him, they were amazed: and his mother said unto him, Son, why hast thou thus dealt with us? behold, thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing. [49] And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business? [50] And they understood not the saying which he spake unto them.

I don't know why you think this is relevant, or even persuasive. None of this is done in order to follow Christ.

So you can say I am a blasphemer and you may be right. But there is also a Wide gap between man’s righteousness and God’s righteousness... making keeping the “righteous” Law of God vulnerable to whose “righteous” is the Law when the Law is Spirit.

This is incoherent.

OT it was about man’s righteousness. NT is about God’s righteousness established in all things instead of establishing man.s righteousness.

This is what you have been taught. Paul points out that the entire Old Testament is a testament of the failure of humanity to measure up to God's righteous standard.

You commented on: 2 Corinthians 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
What stands out to me and the question I still have is: why Moses’ face and for the glory of his countenance ...which glory was to be done away:

Because it was done by "will and effort". It was dependent upon their own will and effort which was doomed to failure. It was by the flesh which will only glory in itself. It must be covered, hidden, and concealed, not just because of its brightness, but because it is disgraceful in its Narcissistic self justification.

2 Corinthians 4:5-7 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake. [6] For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. [7] But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

The Spirit never glories in itself

 

[VictoryinJesus]

This is unbiblical.

Deuteronomy 10:16 Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.

Ezekiel 18:30-31 Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord God. Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin. [31] Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Exactly. If one is born into an abundant life as a new creature, a ceremony isn't necessary, but if one is operating within a faith community, then one "fulfills all righteousness" by being baptized. Christ didn't need to be baptized, but he did it for that exact same reason. Until one is begotten from above, there is no point in being water baptized at all.

exactly. Get your point. But bring up the member here on the board who shared she is being told she can’t join the church she attends unless water baptized. You suggested she has already been baptized of Fire which was insightful. Can’t remember...Did you tell her the church was right in refusing her, and suggest she “fulfills all righteousness” by doing as the church told her to join?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

The circumcision of the heart is not a command to be fulfilled. It is an ontological transformation. One has become a new creation by the power of the Spirit according to God's purpose.

agree.

Again, it isn't anything that human beings do. It is something God does, and there is no reason to conclude that it didn't happen throughout history. Hebrews points out that it began with Abel.

Galatians 6:14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

Hebrews 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

odd what is spoken of the resurrection body of Christ is: John 20:27
[27] Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.

Could suggest those are the marks of the circumcision of Christ in the putting off of the body of sins of the flesh. Galatians 6:17 From henceforth let no man trouble me: for I bear in my body the marks of the Lord Jesus.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I was referring to your comment on Proverbs 23. The mistake would be to assume that the secular culture of North America applies universally; in some parts of the world moderate chastisement is not viewed as abusive.

So was I. The rod of (chastisement)correction that saves (delivers)a child from Sheol belongs to the Lord.

Proverbs 23:14 Lexicon: You shall strike him with the rod And rescue his soul from Sheol.

 

[Waiting on him]

Hebrews 10:7-9 KJV
[7] Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. [8] Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein ; which are offered by the law; [9] Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.


Tecarta Bible

 

[Jennifer]

Means that we should act as before the Lord; a matter of conscience rather than to be menpleasers (Galatians 1.10).

Who is trying to please man? And please men for what?

 

[Waiting on him]

Why would God re establish an old law that was weak and begggarly?