Is The Osas Doctrine Satanic?

[forgivenWretch]

QUOTE (watchman @ May 12 2009, 12:10 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=73554
I did answer your question if i were a sinner I would not be a christian. Now am I perfect? No not yet, but I have an advocate with the Father Jesus Christ the righteous.1st John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:If i sin I can repent and God will forgive me.1st John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.However if I believed in the OSAS nonsense there would be no need for repentance because my future sins would have been forgiving even before I committed them. That is not what scripture teaches, it is a lie from Satan.You are right I am no ones judge nor am I God, however I do have eyes to see if fruit is good or bad, and I have God's Word to know that OSAS is false.
No sir you did not answer the question, you merely ran circles around it. Are you a sinner? YES OR NO?QUOTE
if i were a sinner I would not be a christian

 

[Polar]

QUOTE (Polar @ May 12 2009, 10:22 AM) They are going to heaven regardless of what they do.....That about right?QUOTE (forgivenWretch @ May 12 2009, 11:36 AM) Now you're getting it. That is exactly right.------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------"This has to be the most ridiculous thing I have ever seen. Let see if the Bible agrees with this absurdity?" -- Watchman-- Exactly. QUOTE So, to sum up, as long as a person gave their life to Christ at one time or another, their actions after that are inconsequential.------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------"Never said their actions were inconsequential. They will still answer to God, but none the less, they are still His." - Wretch-- Yes they are. Right up until the time he says, "Depart from me you evildoers."QUOTE So tell me...is there nothing a born again Christian can do to have their one-way ticket to paradise voided? Nothing at all?- Continue to sin but not repent?- Ignore God and his laws?- Murder someone?- Rob a bank?- Cheat on taxes?- Cheat on your spouse?- Live in direct conflict with the majority of the 10 commandments?- How about if, by their words and/or actions, they cause others to reject God?---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------"Nothing...God is not an indian giver." - Wretch-- So basically, as long as a person became saved, they don't even need to repent for since they commit after becoming a Christian, regardless of the degree of those sins. They are still guaranteed a place in heaven.......Yeah, good luck with that.If this incorrect opinion of yours was embraced only by you, the damage would be restricted.But if you are sharing this misguided opinion with non-believers, new believers, or weak believers, I am concerned that if they may put stock in this and end up paying a price for your mistake.

 

[Christina]

You all can argue this till the cows come home or pigs fly whichever it makes no difference the facts are the facts God has given us a contract(covent/promise) what ever term you chose to use ...A contract has two sides .... One party makes a commitment to another party ...If the other party fulfills certain criteria listed in the contract .... God will never break the contract ...However if you do not fulfill your end of the criteria listed in the contract ..it becomes null and void ..... because of your actions .... The contract is not paid off untill judgement day ...So all you hold in your hand is the contract (promise) its not yet filled ...Its fulfillment depends on your abiding to its conditions You all that fail to understand spend time quoting the Words (promises written into the contract) swearing it cant be disputed..because its legally binding but you fail to see its only binding if you do not break it ... God wont stop you from breaking it ..He gave you free will to choose whether to keep the terms of the contract or break them ... If you keep them you will collect as promised ...If you break them youhave broken your agreement ..and the promises no longer apply you will receive what you deserve. If you think different you better consider Israel ..God divorced her for breaking her end of the contract..... Do you really think Judah a beloved apostle chosen by Christ himself ...yet he broke his contract do you really think he still deserves to have it honored anyway ? Or do you think Christ was of such poor judgement Judah really was never saved to begin with ?? You can wave your contract around yelling it can not be broken all you want ...it means nothing ... The only thing that matters is he by his grace gave us the contract and we had better fulfill our part .... or do not expect to collect on it when the time comes.God never promises you a OSAS contract ... He offers you a two way commitmentment

 

[Copper25]

You guys realize that a process of santification is not disregaurded. True Christians have to and will go through santification.Saying the elect are saved for ever does not imply they can walk in darkness. Truth is, God will not let His children live like the worlds ways.Do People just let Hebrews 12 slip out of their mind maybe.Hebrews 12:6) "For whom the LORD loves He chastens"eternal security does not negate this verse, unless God didn't love His elect (but of course He does)Hebrews 12:8) But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. What function Do you think the shepherd's rod has? apperantly people keep forgetting this aspect.I am still going to press this one question. I want a straight yes or noThere are many ifs and warnings of the bible. O how to be heeded they are to be.Now along with these warning in the bible, we have things of certainty.1) Matthew 16:18) And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.The word of God never contradicts itself. So my one question, no dodging, no sidetracking, but simply answer it. Shall the gates of hell prevail against any member of the Church of Christ seeing that Jesus said that the hell wouldn't? Yes or No?By the way, not everyone saying "Lord, Lord" is part of the Church. Just making that one clear.[/quote]Yes or no?Christina, simply answer my question above and you will realize that unlike Isreal, not a remnant of the Church will be saved, but the whole Church, meaning they that are truely in Church. So, yes or no to the question above?

 

[forgivenWretch]

QUOTE (Polar @ May 12 2009, 03:36 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=73556
QUOTE (Polar @ May 12 2009, 10:22 AM) They are going to heaven regardless of what they do.....That about right?QUOTE (forgivenWretch @ May 12 2009, 11:36 AM) Now you're getting it. That is exactly right.------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------"This has to be the most ridiculous thing I have ever seen. Let see if the Bible agrees with this absurdity?" -- Watchman-- Exactly. QUOTE So, to sum up, as long as a person gave their life to Christ at one time or another, their actions after that are inconsequential.------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------"Never said their actions were inconsequential. They will still answer to God, but none the less, they are still His." - Wretch-- Yes they are. Right up until the time he says, "Depart from me you evildoers."QUOTE So tell me...is there nothing a born again Christian can do to have their one-way ticket to paradise voided? Nothing at all?- Continue to sin but not repent?- Ignore God and his laws?- Murder someone?- Rob a bank?- Cheat on taxes?- Cheat on your spouse?- Live in direct conflict with the majority of the 10 commandments?- How about if, by their words and/or actions, they cause others to reject God?---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------"Nothing...God is not an indian giver." - Wretch-- So basically, as long as a person became saved, they don't even need to repent for since they commit after becoming a Christian, regardless of the degree of those sins. They are still guaranteed a place in heaven.......Yeah, good luck with that.If this incorrect opinion of yours was embraced only by you, the damage would be restricted.But if you are sharing this misguided opinion with non-believers, new believers, or weak believers, I am concerned that if they may put stock in this and end up paying a price for your mistake.
Sorry but coal don't float. And the same can be said of your responses.

 

[Vickie]

QUOTE (Christina @ May 12 2009, 04:37 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=73557
You all can argue this till the cows come home or pigs fly whichever it makes no difference the facts are the facts God has given us a contract(covent/promise) what ever term you chose to use ...A contract has two sides .... One party makes a commitment to another party ...If the other party fulfills certain criteria listed in the contract .... God will never break the contract ...However if you do not fulfill your end of the criteria listed in the contract ..it becomes null and void .....
That is correct, you are speaking truth, and the bible tells us that we have to run the race. Till our last breath is taken and we have remained in the faith then we are still judged at his coming. And we have to work out our OWN Salvation with TREMBLING AND FEAR. If we were home free, we wouldn't have to tremble would we? The sheep know the Lord's voice, but just as you said, if the sheep choose to leave they can, it is always there, an open door to leave. And as Heb 10:26 says, those who have gone and defamed the Lord by their actions and come back to repentance will face judgment for their action. It is very serious and very real. We can annul our agreement by how we chose to live. Good points you brought out.

 

[watchman]

QUOTE (forgivenWretch @ May 12 2009, 02:09 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=73555
No sir you did not answer the question, you merely ran circles around it. Are you a sinner? YES OR NO?
No I am not a sinner.

 

[forgivenWretch]

QUOTE (watchman @ May 12 2009, 08:29 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=73565
No I am not a sinner.
Salvation is not a matter of believers trying to confess and repent from every sin they commit before they die. Salvation is not based on whether a Christian has confessed and repented of every sin. Yes, we should confess our sins to God as soon as we are aware that we have sinned. However, we do not always need to be asking God for forgiveness. When we place our faith in Jesus Christ for salvation, all of our sins are forgiven. That includes past, present, and future, big or small. Believers do not have to keep asking for forgiveness or repenting in order to have their sins forgiven. Jesus died to pay the penalty for all of our sins, and when they are forgiven, they are all forgiven (Colossians 1:14; Acts 10:43).What we are to do is confess our sins: “If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness” (1 John 1:9). What this verse tells us to do is “confess” our sins to God. The word “confess” means “to agree with.” When we confess our sins to God, we are agreeing with God that we were wrong, that we have sinned. God forgives us, through confession, on an ongoing basis because of the fact that He is “faithful and just.” How is God “faithful and just”? He is faithful by forgiving sins, which He has promised to do for all those who receive Christ as Savior. He is just by applying Christ’s payment for our sins, recognizing that the sins have indeed been atoned for.At the same time, 1 John 1:9 does indicate that somehow forgiveness is dependent on our confessing our sins to God. How does this work if all of our sins are forgiven the moment we receive Christ as Savior? It seems that what the apostle John is describing here is “relational” forgiveness. All of our sins are forgiven “positionally” the moment we receive Christ as Savior. This positional forgiveness guarantees our salvation and promise of an eternal home in heaven. When we stand before God after death, God will not deny us entrance into heaven because of our sins. That is positional forgiveness. The concept of relational forgiveness is based on the fact that when we sin, we offend God and grieve His Spirit (Ephesians 4:30). While God has ultimately forgiven us of the sins we commit, they still result in a blocking or hindrance in our relationship with God. A young boy who sins against his father is not cast out of the family. A godly father will forgive his children unconditionally. At the same time, a good relationship between father and son cannot be achieved until the relationship is restored. This can only occur when a child confesses his mistakes to his father and apologizes. That is why we confess our sins to God—not to maintain our salvation, but to bring ourselves back into close fellowship with the God who loves us and has already forgiven us.Sorry, but yes you are, as are we all, and saying such is in itself a sin.

 

[Jordan]

QUOTE (watchman @ May 12 2009, 08:29 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=73565
No I am not a sinner.
With all due respect... The truth is you are a sinner. I am a sinner. The whole world is a sinner. (Romans 3:10, 23) there is only one person who is not a sinner... That is Lord Jesus Christ. (I Peter 2:22, II Corinthians 5:21, Hebrews 4:15, I John 3:5)To say you are not a sinner is pure blasphemy.

 

[watchman]

QUOTE (Jordan @ May 12 2009, 11:24 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=73572
With all due respect... The truth is you are a sinner. I am a sinner. The whole world is a sinner. (Romans 3:10, 23) there is only one person who is not a sinner... That is Lord Jesus Christ. (I Peter 2:22, II Corinthians 5:21, Hebrews 4:15, I John 3:5)To say you are not a sinner is pure blasphemy.
So you dare call Christ a sinner?Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.For you to say I am now a sinner then you are calling Christ a sinner because it is no longer I that lives but Christ that live in me. I was a sinner until I was reborn, now I am the righteousness of God through Christ.2nd Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.QUOTE (forgivenWretch @ May 12 2009, 11:01 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=73567
Sorry, but yes you are, as are we all, and saying such is in itself a sin.
You may very well be a sinner, but I on the other hand am Abraham's seed, an heir to the promise.

 

[Christina]

can you read what is written watchman? Jordan :quote.... there is only one person who is not a sinner... That is Lord Jesus Christ. (I Peter 2:22, II Corinthians 5:21, Hebrews 4:15, I John 3:5)Watchman:quote.... So you dare call Christ a sinner?Now let me see Jordan says one is without sin Christ ......watchman says so you say Christ is a sinner ...seems there is a problem here ..but I dare say its not with Jordans statement but wachmans eyes

 

[watchman]

QUOTE (Christina @ May 13 2009, 01:00 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=73576
can you read what is written watchman? Jordan :quote.... there is only one person who is not a sinner... That is Lord Jesus Christ. (I Peter 2:22, II Corinthians 5:21, Hebrews 4:15, I John 3:5)Watchman:quote.... So you dare call Christ a sinner?Now let me see Jordan says one is without sin Christ ......watchman says so you say Christ is a sinner ...seems there is a problem here ..but I dare say its not with Jordans statement but wachmans eyes

I read it and for her to claim I am a sinner is Calling christ a sinner as it is He that live through me as me old man (the sinner) is dead.the problem was indeed with Jordan's post.Did you not read what I wrote?I was a sinner until I was reborn, now I am the righteousness of God through Christ.If you want to continue to wear the tag of sinner even after you rebirth go ahead, but don't place it around my neck.

 

[Christina]

LOL LOL LOL yeah your a sinner just like the rest of the world and if you think your not you better go back to the book and read it again ...That pride will you get a one way ticket and its not to heaven ...............

 

[Jordan]

QUOTE (Christina @ May 13 2009, 12:29 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=73578
LOL LOL LOL yeah your a sinner just like the rest of the world and if you think your not you better go back to the book and read it again ...That pride will you get a one way ticket and its not to heaven ...............
Indeed Christina... Here is a simple point... I specifically posted to Watchman on another topic saying,QUOTE (Jordan @ May 4 2009, 06:16 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=73287
With all due respect, I am a male.
So therefore I do believe watchman is doing this on purpose, by trying to get me mad by calling me a female. Not like I'm mad or anything, but that in itself proves that watchman is a sinner.LOL LOL LOL

 

[logabe]

QUOTE (watchman @ May 12 2009, 11:53 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=73575
So you dare call Christ a sinner?Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.For you to say I am now a sinner then you are calling Christ a sinner because it is no longer I that lives but Christ that live in me. I was a sinner until I was reborn, now I am the righteousness of God through Christ.2nd Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.QUOTE
You may very well be a sinner, but I on the other hand am Abraham's seed, an heir to the promise.
That is the key to understanding the covenants of God...Abraham's covenantwas unconditional and Moses covenant was conditional. Man had nothing to dowith Abraham's covenant, God made a contract (covenant) with Abraham and to his seed. It was by "promise." In modern terminology, we could say that God made an unconditional covenant with Abraham. It was like a "promise to pay," a check that bore only one signature-God's.If you recall, in Genesis 15 God told Abraham to take five animals and cut them in half. This was a "blood covenant." No doubt Abraham expected to walk between the animal halves with God, thus making the covenant binding upon both of them equally. In those days, this was how men made blood covenants with each other; they would link arms and walk between the halves, signifying, "may God cut me in half if I break this covenant."However, God had a better idea. He knew that imperfect men could not be perfectly obedient. He knew that men would always break any covenant they made with God. Thus, men would always be liable, and God would have to cut them to pieces. So God put Abraham to sleep (Gen. 15:12), and as he slept, God alone passed between these pieces of flesh (Gen. 15:17).Thus, the Abrahamic covenant was unconditional in nature. Only God bound Himself to perform certain things. This is what Paul means when he says that this covenant was made "by promise." It is not "by agreement," which is two-sided. It is "by promise," which is one-sided, a check to Abraham written and signed by the hand of God alone.The only problem was that if Abraham could not sign his name to it, then who was going to ratify it? Recall in Gal. 3:15, it says that no one can annul it once it has been ratified. As we shall see, the promise was given to Abraham, but it was ratified nearly 2,000 years later by Jesus. Verse 17 says it was "previously ratified by God" ( before the time of Moses); however, one must remember that in the spirit there is no past or present. And so in the sight of God, Jesus had already died from the foundation of the world (Rev. 13:8) to ratify the covenant that was, in human terms, yet to come. And so the law is satisfied on this point.In order to become an overcomer, you must allow the Law to be writtenon your heart through Sanctication. We must realize that we are dealingwith two covenants, Abraham and Moses. Abraham's covenant is ourJustification which is UNCONDITIONAL, but, Moses covenant is a two waystreet and you must AGREE with God in Santification which is conditionalin order to INHERIT the Ages to come. That is where the confusing comesin. If you rightly divide the TRUTH, it becomes very plain.Please pray that God gives us all understanding so we can benefit fromwhat God is doing today.Logabe

 

[Polar]

"Coal don't float. And neither do your responses." -- Wretch-- Funny, I was just think the same about yours. OSAS, which you believe, means that if Adolf Hitler renounced sin and committed his life to Jesus with total sincerity while in the trenches in World War I, he would be sitting pretty in heaven right now. The six million Jews he killed wouldn't mean a thing. Oh, he might only be a street sweeper on heaven's avenues of gold, but he'd be there none the less. Same for Joseph Stalin (who studied in the seminary when he was young). If he sincerely committed his life to Jesus during his time in the seminary, then the 20-plus million people he killed are no problem, either. He'd be pushing a broom right next to ol' Adolf right now.Christina said it perfectly:"God will never break the contract ...However if you do not fulfill your end of the criteria listed in the contract ..it becomes null and void ..... because of your actions .... The contract is not paid off untill judgement day ...So all you hold in your hand is the contract (promise) its not yet filled ...Its fulfillment depends on your abiding to its conditions""God never promises you a OSAS contract ... He offers you a two way commitmentment"

 

[Vickie]

QUOTE (watchman @ May 12 2009, 11:53 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=73575
2nd Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
Why do many confuse these words in 2 Cor. 5:21 Paul said: "That we "MIGHT", be made the righteousness of God. The word "MIGHT" not does not say it guarantees us righteousness of God. QUOTE
You may very well be a sinner, but I on the other hand am Abraham's seed, an heir to the promise.
We are his seed "IF" we remain in the faith and walk according to the faith Abraham had. Can you sacrifice or kill your son if called too? Can you go before beatings and give God praise. If you know God and are living in the same faith Abraham did, then you are saved by the same grace he is. I Peter 4:18 If it is hard for the righteous to be SAVED, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner? Christ is coming to set up his kingdom.

 

[HammerStone]

All sin is not forgiven at the moment of Salvation, otherwise there would be no need for this:QUOTE
II Corinthians 7:1Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.
Similarly, what about this?QUOTE
Romans 3:24-25Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
I don't see future sins talked about here.Last, but certainly not least:QUOTE
Matthew 18:23Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants. And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents. But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made. The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt. But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest. And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt. So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done. Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me: Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee? And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.
The sin was initially forgiven, but then it was done again. Christ is very, very particular in his parables.

 

[watchman]

QUOTE (Christina @ May 13 2009, 01:29 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=73578
LOL LOL LOL yeah your a sinner just like the rest of the world and if you think your not you better go back to the book and read it again ...That pride will you get a one way ticket and its not to heaven ...............
The only thing my ''pride'' goes toward is my God you have taken me out of darkness and into His marvelous light. All sinners have their place in the Lake of Fire, so if you want to remain a sinner go ahead, but my place is in the Heavens with Christ.QUOTE (Jordan @ May 13 2009, 02:03 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=73588
Indeed Christina... Here is a simple point... I specifically posted to Watchman on another topic saying,So therefore I do believe watchman is doing this on purpose, by trying to get me mad by calling me a female. Not like I'm mad or anything, but that in itself proves that watchman is a sinner.LOL LOL LOL
In all reality I though you were female, and once again you are calling Christ a sinner, I would stop dioing that if i were you.

 

[BenTobijah]

watchman,I take it you are using the word “sinner” as a noun describing the state of a person prior to salvation. You are saying that now you are a “Christ-man” (Christian) that sins but repents and is therefore made right. I believe that most of this argument is semantics. People use the word "elect" without knowing the meaning. Not all humans are “elect” most are "freewill" and there is a difference.