IS THE RAPTURE BEFORE THE TRIBULATION?
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Marvelloustime
Well-Known Member
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Acts 1
9 Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. 10 And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel, 11 who also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.”
He returns again, this is the second coming.
God gives to the Son all power and authority in heaven and earth, He receives His kingdom from the Father after He is resurrected and ascends back to the Father. And He will come again to judge the living and the dead.
Luke 6
15 “And so it was that when he returned, having received the kingdom, he then commanded these servants, to whom he had given the money, to be called to him, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading. 16 Then came the first, saying, ‘Master, your mina has earned ten minas.’ 17 And he said to him, ‘Well done, good servant; because you were faithful in a very little, have authority over ten cities.’ 18 And the second came, saying, ‘Master, your mina has earned five minas.’ 19 Likewise he said to him, ‘You also be over five cities.’
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Peter says it this way
whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since [e]the world began.
Christ after He ascends back into heaven does not return until the appointed DAY of judgment which is on the LAST DAY of this world.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
Acts 3
17 “Yet now, brethren, I know that you did it in ignorance, as did also your rulers. 18 But those things which God foretold by the mouth of all His prophets, that the Christ would suffer, He has thus fulfilled. 19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, 20 and that He may send [c]Jesus Christ, who was [d]preached to you before, 21 whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since [e]the world began. 22 For Moses truly said to the fathers, ‘The Lord your God will raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brethren. Him you shall hear in all things, whatever He says to you. 23 And it shall be that every soul who will not hear that Prophet shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.’ 24 Yes, and all the prophets, from Samuel and those who follow, as many as have spoken, have also [f]foretold these days. 25 You are sons of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying to Abraham, ‘And in your seed all the families of the earth shall be blessed.’ 26 To you first, God, having raised up His Servant Jesus, sent Him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from your iniquities.”
Acts 17:30-32
New King James Version
30 Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent,
31 because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Judgment DAY in scripture is the Day of the Lord, on the LAST DAY, at His appearing, and every eye will see Him even those who pierced Him, AMEN.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
2 Timothy 4
I charge you [a]therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead [b]at His appearing and His kingdom: 2 Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; 4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables. 5 But you be watchful in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.
John 6:39
This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.
John 6:54
Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 11:24
Martha said to Him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.”
John 12:48
He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him— the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.
9 Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. 10 And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel, 11 who also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.”
He returns again, this is the second coming.
God gives to the Son all power and authority in heaven and earth, He receives His kingdom from the Father after He is resurrected and ascends back to the Father. And He will come again to judge the living and the dead.
Luke 6
The Parable of the Minas
11 Now as they heard these things, He spoke another parable, because He was near Jerusalem and because they thought the kingdom of God would appear immediately. 12 Therefore He said: “A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom and to return. 13 So he called ten of his servants, delivered to them ten [e]minas, and said to them, ‘Do business till I come.’ 14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a delegation after him, saying, ‘We will not have this man to reign over us.’15 “And so it was that when he returned, having received the kingdom, he then commanded these servants, to whom he had given the money, to be called to him, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading. 16 Then came the first, saying, ‘Master, your mina has earned ten minas.’ 17 And he said to him, ‘Well done, good servant; because you were faithful in a very little, have authority over ten cities.’ 18 And the second came, saying, ‘Master, your mina has earned five minas.’ 19 Likewise he said to him, ‘You also be over five cities.’
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Peter says it this way
whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since [e]the world began.
Christ after He ascends back into heaven does not return until the appointed DAY of judgment which is on the LAST DAY of this world.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
Acts 3
17 “Yet now, brethren, I know that you did it in ignorance, as did also your rulers. 18 But those things which God foretold by the mouth of all His prophets, that the Christ would suffer, He has thus fulfilled. 19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, 20 and that He may send [c]Jesus Christ, who was [d]preached to you before, 21 whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since [e]the world began. 22 For Moses truly said to the fathers, ‘The Lord your God will raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brethren. Him you shall hear in all things, whatever He says to you. 23 And it shall be that every soul who will not hear that Prophet shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.’ 24 Yes, and all the prophets, from Samuel and those who follow, as many as have spoken, have also [f]foretold these days. 25 You are sons of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying to Abraham, ‘And in your seed all the families of the earth shall be blessed.’ 26 To you first, God, having raised up His Servant Jesus, sent Him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from your iniquities.”
Acts 17:30-32
New King James Version
30 Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent,
31 because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Judgment DAY in scripture is the Day of the Lord, on the LAST DAY, at His appearing, and every eye will see Him even those who pierced Him, AMEN.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
2 Timothy 4
I charge you [a]therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead [b]at His appearing and His kingdom: 2 Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; 4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables. 5 But you be watchful in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.
John 6:39
This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.
John 6:54
Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 11:24
Martha said to Him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.”
John 12:48
He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him— the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.
I must rectify what I said, I got ahead of myself
We will be caught up and changed at the "rapture"
Israel has to wait until the coming of the Lord to receive salvation
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
His 2nd Coming and the Resurrection occur BEFORE the Rapture = 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
JESUS says "ABSOLUTELY NOT"
Why are you contradicting Christ and the Apostles???
Rapture before Wrath is what JESUS Says and the Apostles and the OT prophets and Revelation
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
We fully agree with "It is written"
Personally, if and when i am corrected by scripture thru a Brother or Sister who points to the Truth, i delight in the Truth and let go of that conflict which i was holding unto.
Lose and you WIN type of Reality
We are all works in progress.
I do not know what God will do for any particular person.
The knowledge of God comes by divine revelation.
People can read the Word, and if they do not have an anointing from the Spirit to understand, they can get it wrong.
In this New Covenant, God by decree teaches us by His Spirit the things we need to know for His purposes. No one has all knowledge of God.
Even the apostles sometimes got it wrong, look at Paul confronting Peter.
See the New Covenant is for Jew and Gentile both. This is one of those things.
Paul ministered to gentiles and here he says he is a minister of the New Covenant.
2 Corinthians 3
The Spirit, Not the Letter
4 And we have such trust through Christ toward God. 5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think of anything as being from ourselves, but our sufficiency is from God, 6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the [a]Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.Glory of the New Covenant
7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory. 10 For even what was made glorious had no glory in this respect, because of the glory that excels. 11 For if what is passing away was glorious, what remains is much more glorious.12 Therefore, since we have such hope, we use great boldness of speech— 13 unlike Moses, who put a veil over his face so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the end of what was passing away. 14 But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ. 15 But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart. 16 Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 18 But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as [b]by the Spirit of the Lord.
The ministry of the Spirit is the New Covenant
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
It sure dont do it .
In fact i was just reading both letters of peter again today .
Many try and claim his letter was just for the jews .
RATHER ODD huh
nearing the end of his second letter
he clearly states pauls name . Even telling the church
of the same wisdom in pauls writings that he has written TO YOU .
Take a peek at that my friend . In ALL HIS Letters . all of pauls letters .
Lets take a peek at the third chapter verse fifteen of the second letter of peter to the Church .
So oopsy they been lying to us david all along .
By grace i always knew that every letter them apostels wrote WAS FOR THE CHURCH ITSELF .
but men love to try and say Pauls letters were for the gentiles and peter and james and etc for the jewish beleivers .
WRONG they are as usual . Many had rather heed men who
TWIST them scrips and do so unto THEIR OWN DESTRUCTION i might add .
People like ears tickled my friend .
But sheep , JUST LOVE TRUTH . amen . JESUS has the sheep my friend . HE HAS the Sheep indeed
and a strangers voice , THEY NO HEEDY ONE WORD out of said lips .
It really comes back to this, one people in God are God's holy nation.
When you read this, you can understand there is no separation of jew or gentile, God has made us as one new man in Christ.
Example Ephesians 2
Brought Near by His Blood
11 Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh—who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands— 12 that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.Christ Our Peace
14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, 15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, 16 and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. 17 And He came and preached peace to you who were afar off and to those who were near. 18 For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father.Christ Our Cornerstone
19 Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone,21 in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, 22 in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
I think many lack a clear and true understanding of just WHO TRUE ISRAEL is my friend .
And that just as loudly as the gentiles shall wail who denied him , so too will many jewish born be wailing with them .
SO lets do a real good look at Israel . Had a temple in its CITY of Jerusalem
the temple made after the pattern . Mount sion , that answers to jerusalem .
But i know of TRUE ISRAEL . IT TOO has a temple , GOD AND THE LAMB
it too has its HEAVENLY JERUSALEM . ITS KING BE JESUS THE CHRIST .
the earthen israel NEEDS to BELEIVE ON HIM every bit as much as do a gentile .
You see i have come to a real simple understanding .
IF A MAN DENIES GOD What hope does he have .
IF a man denies JESUS , guess who they just denied .
THE SON wont be denied
and to DENY HIM is to DENY THE FATHER WHO SENT HIM .
John knew this , heck they all did .
Beware lest that come upon you which was written
Behold wonder and PERISH for i work a work in your day that ye will not believe though a man declare it unto you .
And any who hears NOT the PROPHET shall be DESTROYED from among the people . OH yeah THEY KNEW david . THEY KNEW .
Any who beleives NOT the TESTIMONY that GOD gave of THE SON
calls GOD A LIAR . and where do liars go again .
THEY KNEW david . THEY KNEW the dire upmost importance of having to believe ON JESUS THE CHRIST .
You know what has changed from those days till now , for the sheep , NOTHING , we preach THE SAME
and we give out NO false hope . but notice i said for the SHEEP . many might be decked in wool
but it darn sure dont make them sheep .
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
This was my 'hidden ace' = slang for 'i know what they cannot see'
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
i figured it was my friend . But ol amigo is on a mission in these final hours upon earth .
To POINT TO CHRIST , TO ALL lovely biblical doctrine
to the one true gospel of Christ
to correct , rebuke , expose all false teachers i know that are false
and their doctrine . This sheep has its duty . exhortation is my gift .
Any exhorter who exhorts a word contrary to the LORD must be corrected asap fast . And all men must always
be tested and continue to be tested .
There is a badge to be worn on the heart of every sheep .
LET GOD BE TRUE BUT EVERY MAN A LIAR . HIS WORDS are TRUTH
and that is HOW we gonna test all men who do speak . TO the trenches david , to the trenches
we march on in the KING .
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Peter never said it was directed to Israel for he writes to "Blood Washed Saints" which Israel rejected = 1 Peter 1:3-5
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
This is the Holy Spirit speaking thru Peter and anyone can SEE that these words are always PRESENT Tense and contain a Beginning and and End = JESUS the CHRIST = "the Alpha and the Omega" = "the Beginning and the End"
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
that is your own take
Listen to these Living Words
To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:
Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
NOTICE that you did my friend .
TO THOSE who have WHAT . Obtained LIKE PRECIOUS Faith with us by the RIGHTEOUSNESS of our GOD and Savoir JESUS CHRIST .
That is WHO he wrote too . WELL guess what that means
ITS TO THE CHURCH . exactly spot on right my friend . SUCH a lovely reminder you brought us today .
