IS THE RAPTURE BEFORE THE TRIBULATION?

[amigo de christo]

that is your own take

Listen to these Living Words

To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:

Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

such living words of TRUTH . the sheep do hear them for the sheep are of JESUS THE CHRIST
and are his peoples .
Such LIVING words of TRUTH . TO the trenches the hour grows only later
and soon our persecutions shall become greater .

 

[Fred J]

THANK YOU Brother

i will 'chew the cud' on this today as i do not want to be hasty and puffed up in my own understanding.

Allow a little time as i fill UP on Anointing Oil and allow the Holy Spirit to direct me thru scripture(you as well).

Shalom

Well said brethren, and don't take my word for it, do the study, and discuss part by part.

Shalom in the name of Jesus Christ.

 

[David in NJ]

Well said brethren, and don't take my word for it, do the study, and discuss part by part.

Shalom in the name of Jesus Christ.

THANK YOU and please lift us UP in prayer because JESUS said "If two or more of you agree....it will be granted".

Now we are seeking to agree on the Truth according to the Holy Spirit thru the Holy Scriptures.

This pleases God our FATHER

 

[keithr]

Yes but the remnant of Israel that Peter was writing to are not in the body of Christ and neither was Peter........they were persecuted by Paul before his conversion....they are the church of God formed before the body of Christ was formed thru Paul

Ephesians 4:4-5 (WEB):

(4) There is one body, and one Spirit, even as you also were called in one hope of your calling;​

(5) one Lord, one faith, one baptism,​

 

[Doug]

His 2nd Coming and the Resurrection occur BEFORE the Rapture = 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

[1Th 4:15 KJV] 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
Correct me if I am wrong but I take it where it says the coming it refers to his second coming at the end of the tribulation

[1Th 2:19 KJV] 19 For what [is] our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? [Are] not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming?
I view this verse as referring to his coming to gather us up (the rapture) not his second coming

[1Th 4:15 KJV] 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
This coming is not the second coming

 

[Doug]

Peter never said it was directed to Israel for he writes to "Blood Washed Saints" which Israel rejected = 1 Peter 1:3-5

Peter addressed the scattered believing remnant............[1Pe 1:1 KJV] 1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
He didnt write to unbelieving Israel but the believing remnant of Israel

 

[Doug]

who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

This is the Holy Spirit speaking thru Peter and anyone can SEE that these words are always PRESENT Tense and contain a Beginning and and End = JESUS the CHRIST = "the Alpha and the Omega" = "the Beginning and the End"

If alot is present tense its because this letter will benefit the remnant in the tribulation
The believing nation of Israel will get salvation in the last time and the second coming.........................[Act 3:19 KJV] 19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

 

[Doug]

that is your own take

I said Peter was moved to write 1 and 2 Peter by the Spirit to benefit Israel in the tribulation

[1Pe 1:5-7 KJV] 5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. 6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations: 7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

The trial of their faith is to me the tribulation and his appearing at it's end

 

[Doug]

To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:

This is speaking of the like precious faith in his name

[1Pe 4:14 KJV] 14 If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy [are ye]; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified.

[Act 3:16 KJV] 16 And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.

 

[Doug]

Ephesians 4:4-5 (WEB):

(4) There is one body, and one Spirit, even as you also were called in one hope of your calling;​

(5) one Lord, one faith, one baptism,​

There is one body now but that was not the case before the body of Christ was formed
The body of Christ was formed by Christ thru Paul
Peter and the believing remnant of Israel were in Christ before Paul and before the body of Christ was formed

 

[Scott Downey]

[1Th 4:15 KJV] 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
Correct me if I am wrong but I take it where it says the coming it refers to his second coming at the end of the tribulation

[1Th 2:19 KJV] 19 For what [is] our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? [Are] not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming?
I view this verse as referring to his coming to gather us up (the rapture) not his second coming

[1Th 4:15 KJV] 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
This coming is not the second coming

Think about, every verse you quoted says it is the coming of the Lord.

 

[Doug]

Think about, every verse you quoted says it is the coming of the Lord.

They speak of his coming for us at the rapture

 

[David in NJ]

If alot is present tense its because this letter will benefit the remnant in the tribulation
The believing nation of Israel will get salvation in the last time and the second coming.........................[Act 3:19 KJV] 19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

Since you acknowledge 1 & 2 Peter are 'present tense and that it will eventually speak to those in the tribulation................

How is it not possible(according to you) for it to be speaking to believing sanctified saints who are alive today all over the world?

 

[Scott Downey]

They speak of his coming for us at the rapture

You look at it that way as you have split it, the rapture from the second coming, when it is all the same second coming being taught.
1 Thess 4, the rapture is the second coming.

The Comfort of Christ’s Coming​

13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen [b]asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who [c]sleep in Jesus.

15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are [d]asleep.

16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

 

[amigo de christo]

Since you acknowledge 1 & 2 Peter are 'present tense and that it will eventually speak to those in the tribulation................

How is it not possible(according to you) for it to be speaking to believing sanctified saints who are alive today all over the world?

Every word written , as you know , is for the good of the sheep .
Its real simple . what is the message given .
JESUS saves and one must believe IN HIM to be saved . and to beware of another jesus , another gospel and etc
Now what is the mindset they taught the church concerning also
deception , persecution . IT would only increase so long as we are in this world
and that it would peak right at the end . Well , ITS peaking , delusions and deceptions
have increased so much its tough to even find men who will stand and contend for the truth .
most been given to fables . And more so
we have this unifying force at work that is infiltrated massively .
And boy does it preach a lie that it calls love .
And oh yes its gonna lead to the upmost betrayals and persecution of the true saints .
Its peaking now my friend . Men gonna do as men gonna do my friend .
But sheep simply gonna do as JESUS said to do and they wont be twisting scrips , they shall simply be
BELIEVING what is written . Now onward in those trenches david . Onward in the trenches . Faithful to the last breath .

 

[David in NJ]

This is speaking of the like precious faith in his name

[1Pe 4:14 KJV] 14 If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy [are ye]; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified.

[Act 3:16 KJV] 16 And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.

This is Current for all who believe in Christ today.

 

[amigo de christo]

This is Current for all who believe in Christ today.

yes indeed my friend .
You know what i find rather peculiar about the days we living in my friend .
The signs are only peaking
and most folks cannot see .
I suppose all them billions of pesky trees are getting in the way of them seeing this so called FOREST of signs .
IF ya KNOW what i mean by that .

 

[David in NJ]

yes indeed my friend .
You know what i find rather peculiar about the days we living in my friend .
The signs are only peaking
and most folks cannot see .
I suppose all them billions of pesky trees are getting in the way of them seeing this so called FOREST of signs .
IF ya KNOW what i mean by that .

The blindness comes from three areas

a.) lacking the indwelling Holy Spirit of Truth
b.) doubting the words of Christ and the Apostles
c.) the error of "respect of persons"

 

[David in NJ]

Well said brethren, and don't take my word for it, do the study, and discuss part by part.

Shalom in the name of Jesus Christ.

Fred J i have read your post and will read it again as i am allowing prayer and the Holy Spirit to guide us on this.

Thank You for being patient with me.

Shalom my Brother in Christ

 

[Doug]

Since you acknowledge 1 & 2 Peter are 'present tense and that it will eventually speak to those in the tribulation................

How is it not possible(according to you) for it to be speaking to believing sanctified saints who are alive today all over the world?

I think Peter is talking to the believing remnant based on the 1st verse
I dont think the church the body of Christ will go thru the tribulation therefor Peter could not be talking to us