Is the story of Lazarus and the rich man literal?

[TonyChanYT]

If you want to DEBATE Carnal Knowledge regarding What Jesus said….the debate is moot.

No. Please stay focused if you are able.

Have you not done the following:

1. making fun of people's questions instead of answering them,

2. making accusations instead of answers,

3. reading only the title and not the content of the OP when answering,

4. answering with a "no" and nothing else, not providing any support of evidence,

5. talking about other things instead of answering one direct question?

This is the 2nd time I have asked.

These are not proper debate behavior for any human society. Being a staff member of this website, you are setting a bad example for all to see. In case you have missed it, I am speaking against you.

 

[Taken]

No. Please stay focused if you are able.

Have you not done the following:

1. making fun of people's questions instead of answering them,

Statement, not a question.

2. making accusations instead of answers,

Statement, not a question.

3. reading only the title and not the content of the OP when answering,

Statement, not a question.

answering with a "no" and nothing else, not providing any support of evidence,

You admit I answered.

5. talking about other things instead of answering one direct question?

You didn’t comprehend the answer.

This is the 2nd time I have asked.

This is the second time you have made a list of statements and repeated one of my answers.

These are not proper debate behavior for any human society. Being a staff member of this website, you are setting a bad example for all to see. In case you have missed it, I am speaking against you.

You are trying to demand Spiritual Knowledge be proved to you according to Carnal Understanding.

Already answered…
The Thread Title is expressly about A Spiritual FACT that HAD BEEN SECRET, and was being, IN Scripture Revealed by Jesus.

You seem to be enamored with the “word - PARABLE’ and (completely ignorant of WHO the SPEAKER is, and WHY the HIGHLIGHT is ON the SPEAKER and WHAT the SPEAKER is SAYING; )
Instead…you want to have a SECULAR MINDFUL DEBATE WITH CARNAL LOGICAL Understanding to satisfy your LACK of SPIRITUAL Understanding.

Scripture itself NOTIFIES you…that is a FAIL.

Rom. 8:
[7] Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

1 Cor
[12] Only the LORD give thee wisdom and understanding, and give thee charge concerning Israel, that thou mayest keep the law of the LORD thy God.

You, NOR could “ALL” other men HEARING Jesus SPEAKING , could UNDERSTAND what Jesus was SAYING…
Like You some men could NOT BELIEVE what JESUS was SAYING…
BECAUSE Jesus taught in “a story form, called a PARABLE”.

Like You some men thought and understood in their Secular Carnal Mind…”oh, oh, Jesus is simply telling a MADE- UP story, to MAKE a point.”

HOWEVER…. “A FEW MEN”…already KNEW, BELIEVED, TRUSTED… “JESUS IS THE TRUTH”….”THE TRUTH CAN NOT LIE” …
regardless of WHAT manner of speech Jesus’ was SPEAKING is called (Parable /Story)….EVERY WORD Jesus SPOKE IS TRUE!

What YOU DO NOT COMPREHEND, and repeatedly ATTEMPT to DO…. IS
entice others to engage with you, Logically, Mindfully, Carnally and PROVE to you, what JESUS SAID, “IS FACTUALLY TRUE”.

I am among the “FEW”, who KNOW, BELIEVE, TRUST….Jesus IS the Truth, Jesus can NOT Lie. THAT was my answer. THAT IS MY PROOF. That is EXPRESSLY based on MY FAITH.

Really? You are attempting and demanding people PROVE to You, Jesus can not Lie, regardless in what manner (in this case, called a Parable) His speech is called?

You asked WONDERING, “IF” the following Scripture recording Jesus speaking IS “LITERAL”….(implying TRUTH or FICTION).


Luke 16:
[19]There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
[20] And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
[21] And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
[22] And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
[23] And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
[24] And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
[25] But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
[26] And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
[27] Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
[28] For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
[29] Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
[30] And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
[31] And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

You WANT to DEBATE…a question? No.
That is not a DEBATE!

You WANT to DEBATE…a DIFFERENCE of BELIEFS? Have at it…
State your belief…


How ABOUT “YOU” copy and paste Scriptural passages Luke 16: 19-31, and HIGHLIGHT in BOLD every word YOU believe IS TRUE.
THEN anyone who disagrees with you, can DABATE their belief AGAINST your belief!

 

[keithr]

I said yes it is a Parable.

No you didn't! This was your post (#8):

Is the story of Lazarus and the rich man literal?

Yes.

I think that most people understand the question of this topic, "Is the story of Lazarus and the rich man literal?", to mean is it a true literal (not figurative or allegorical) story or is it a parable? (A parable is a fictional allegorical story designed to illustrate or teach some truth, religious principle, or moral lesson.) So if you answer the question with a simple "Yes", then to most people that would be interpreted to mean that you believe the story to be literal, and not a parable, and that it doesn't have a figurative or metaphorical meaning.

If you meant the opposite of that then your communication skills are very poor and you are most likely frequently misunderstood and confuse people!

I said yes it is true.

Again you simply said "Yes.", meaning you said that you believed the story is literal.

No, you are in error, I did NOT say it was not a Parable.

By saying that the story was literal, that is saying, by defintion, that it is not a parable.

No, I am not obliged to answer for what YOU SAY FOR ME, which I did NOT SAY!

I didn't say that you were obliged to answer, I said that having asked you what evidence you had to suppose that story is not a parable, that I would expect you to answer with evidence to support your claim. You have now revealed that you did not intend to claim it was not a parable. So you have confused me (and probably everyone else reading this thread) by eventually revealing that you believe it to be both a parable and not a parable!

God said, Isaiah 1:18 (WEB):

(18) “Come now, and let’s reason together,” says Yahweh: ...​

To 'reason' means 'to think or argue in a logical manner'. I don't think that you have been thinking in a logical manner, and you have been causing a lot of confusion. That's not "spiritual understanding". 1 Corinthians 14:33 (WEB):

(33) for God is not a God of confusion, but of peace, as in all the assemblies of the saints.​

And? So, nothing new, Jesus talking about “THEM”. They didn’t get it either.

You have yet to explain anything from your "spiritual understanding" about what the story means and why Jesus told it. That's of no help to anybody. I'll tell you my understanding of it, in a separate post.

 

[TonyChanYT]

Statement, not a question.

Do you know what a question mark is for?

Have you not done the following:

1. making fun of people's questions instead of answering them,

2. making accusations instead of answers,

3. reading only the title and not the content of the OP when answering,

4. answering with a "no" and nothing else, not providing any support of evidence,

5. talking about other things instead of answering one direct question?

This is the 3rd time I have asked.

These are not proper debate behavior for any human society. Being a staff member of this website, you are setting a bad example for all to see. In case you have missed it, I am speaking against you.

I am surprised that a person who doesn't know the difference between a question and a statement can be a staff member of this Christian website. I do not want to waste my time reading this kind of low-level scholarship writing.

 

[keithr]

In Luke 16 Jesus tells the parable of the dishonest manager (steward), which was aimed at the Pharisees who were lovers of money, and had not used their earthly gifts of wealth and opportunity for heavenly aims, but for earthly aims. The parable showed them that with their love of money they could not be the true friends of God, or that their profession of religion was really false and hollow. They were “attempting” to serve God and mammon, and they, therefore, looked upon Jesus' doctrine with contempt and scorn.

So Jesus said to them, “You are those who justify yourselves in the sight of men, but God knows your hearts. For that which is exalted among men is an abomination in the sight of God" (verse 15). Their religious practices seemed righteous to the people, but it was all for show and for their pride, while their hearts were evil. This was abominable to God.

Jesus continued with Luke 16:16 (WEB):

(16) The law and the prophets were until John. From that time the Good News of God’s Kingdom is preached, and everyone is forcing his way into it.​

He declares that now, since the start of his ministry, a new dispensation had begun. The "law and the prophets" were a shadow of things to come, and now the better things were within reach, and many were eagerly accepting the Gospel of God's Kingdom and pressing into the Kingdom. The Pharisees also needed to do so, but were not. So Jesus tells the parable of the rich man and the beggar, Lazarus ("whom God helps"):


There is a poor man and a rich man, but there is nothing said about their virtues nor about their sins. They both die. The poor man is carried by the angels to "Abraham's bosom" (not heaven). Even if this were a literal statement of fact, it would not put the poor man in heaven, because Abraham is not in heaven. We know this because Jesus said, "No man hath ascended up to heaven" - John 3:13.

In death the rich man is said to see the poor man in Abraham's bosom, and he begs him to send a drop of water to cool his tongue. Abraham's literal bosom had turned to dust long centuries before this parable was given, hence the expression must be symbolic; and if that is symbolic, the remainder of the account must also be a word-picture of something more than the experience of two men after they died.

The most reasonable view as to the meaning of the parable is that these two men represented two groups, or we might say, nations. The rich man, with the various details related concerning him, seems clearly to be a symbol of the Jewish nation, while the poor man is a true representation of the Gentiles and the position they were in at the time the parable was given.

The Jewish nation fared sumptuously every day, as the parable states. That is, the promises of God belonged to them, and upon these they were privileged to feast. Their table was laden with these good things from the Word of God. The purple robe of the rich man represented the royal hopes of the nation, and his fine white linen represented the standing of righteousness the nation enjoyed as a result of the typical sacrifices which were made year by year for them. While this righteousness was merely typical of the righteousness enjoyed by spiritual Israel through the blood of Christ, nevertheless, it gave them a standing before God which other nations did not enjoy.

Israel died as a nation, and lost all these special favors of the Lord, but the individuals comprising the nation continued to live, and each successive generation of these throughout the centuries has suffered. They have suffered because of being members of a nation that was dead. See the prophecy of this as recorded in Deuteronomy 32:22.

The poor man - representing the Gentiles - also died to that condition of alienation from God which was theirs prior to the first advent of Christ. Believing Gentiles were carried into Abraham's bosom; that is, they became the children of Abraham through faith, and inherited the promises of God which were made to and through him. The whole Gentile world - particularly where the Gospel has been at least nominally accepted - has benefited from this great change. Representatives of the dead nation of Israel, from time to time in the past, appealed to the favored Gentile nations for mercy and assistance, but little help was given.

The key that identifies the rich man of the parable is in the statement concerning his five brothers - "They have Moses and the prophets." This was true only of the Jewish nation. The nation was divided into twelve tribes. Following the Babylonian captivity, it was mostly the members of the two tribes of Judah and Benjamin that returned to Judea, although some of all the tribes returned. It was largely, therefore, the two tribes to whom Jesus ministered, and who would be represented by this rich man of the parable. If this one man represented two tribes, the other ten tribes could be well represented by his five brethren, and the parable shows that they shared the same fate because they had failed to hear Moses and the prophets.

 

[keithr]

For a longer, more detailed explanation of the parabe, see Why Hell is not a place of eternal conscious torment.

 

[Webers_Home]

~
In the story told at Luke 16-19-31, the beggar Lazarus died and was carried
by angels to the afterlife. Curiously, the rich man's transportation isn't
described.

One of the most disturbing scenes I've yet to observe in a Hollywood movie
occurs in "GHOST" starring Patrick Swayze and Demi Moore. When someone
marked for the wrong side of the afterlife passes away, these eerie
phantoms emerge, having the appearance of black oily smoke, uttering
awful moans, and drag their panic-stricken captives down into the ground.

I don't know if that's how the rich man in Luke's story was transported, but
if so; I can well imagine just how shocking and horrifying it must've been for
him at death to suddenly be able to see menacing spirit creatures
surrounding him with looks on their faces that could only convey but one
unmistakable intent; and I suspect those sinister beings had been hovering
around that poor man and stalking him every day and night of his entire life
without him knowing it and patiently waiting for the green light to take him
down.

So, I wonder if the angels that provided Lazarus transportation were not also
assigned as security to protect him from being shanghaied by something
similar to those dark mists.
_

 

[Webers_Home]

~
Luke 16:19-31 is commonly alleged to be a parable; which of course implies
that the story is fiction; and some would even say fantasy. But the parable
theory has some fatal flaws,

For one: whenever Jesus told a parable, he eventually took his disciple aside
and explained its meaning. (Mark 4:34)

I would've liked to been on hand when Jesus expounded his defense for
quoting Abraham saying things that the patriarch didn't really say; which in
my judicious estimation is especially despicable due to the fact that Abraham
is one of God's buddies. (Isa 41:8)

All I'm saying is: if we can't trust Jesus to tell the truth about his Father's
friends, then how are we supposed to trust him to tell the truth about one of
us?

This is a serious question because Jesus is the one and only mediator in
Heaven between God and Man. Well; I for one don't want someone
unfaithful to me speaking on my behalf before the throne of God.
_

 

[Illuminator]

Do you know what a question mark is for?

Have you not done the following:

1. making fun of people's questions instead of answering them,

2. making accusations instead of answers,

3. reading only the title and not the content of the OP when answering,

4. answering with a "no" and nothing else, not providing any support of evidence,

5. talking about other things instead of answering one direct question?

This is the 3rd time I have asked.

These are not proper debate behavior for any human society. Being a staff member of this website, you are setting a bad example for all to see. In case you have missed it, I am speaking against you.

I am surprised that a person who doesn't know the difference between a question and a statement can be a staff member of this Christian website. I do not want to waste my time reading this kind of low-level scholarship writing.

Have you noticed you can't put a "staff member" on ignore?

 

[Taken]

No you didn't! This was your post (#8):

I think that most people understand the question of this topic, "Is the story of Lazarus and the rich man literal?", to mean is it a true literal (not figurative or allegorical) story or is it a parable? (A parable is a fictional allegorical story designed to illustrate or teach some truth, religious principle, or moral lesson.) So if you answer the question with a simple "Yes", then to most people that would be interpreted to mean that you believe the story to be literal, and not a parable,

Agee “most people”.
However the Truth is:
It IS a Parable. It IS the Literal Truth.

If you meant the opposite of that then your communication skills are very poor and you are most likely frequently misunderstood and confuse people!

There ARE TWO “understandings” of words.
Via the MIND…
Via the SPIRIT….

When discussing Spiritual things…such as Scripture…
Which “understanding” of words would you say, is most beneficial to persons discussing Scripture?

 

[Mr E]

Agee “most people”.
However the Truth is:
It IS a Parable. It IS the Literal Truth.



There ARE TWO “understandings” of words.
Via the MIND…
Via the SPIRIT….

When discussing Spiritual things…such as Scripture…
Which “understanding” of words would you say, is most beneficial to persons discussing Scripture?

It's a nuanced understanding that some folks can't wrap their heads around. They mistakenly think "parable" means "made up" which is a slippery way of saying "not true." It's a grievous error to accuse the Christ of misleading folks.

A parable, by nature is true in two senses. It casts a duality of truth-- in a literal, physical sense and at the same time, a spiritual truth above and beyond the apparent physical truth. Parables are doubly true.

So even if this Lazarus was a telling of his near-death-experience, which later became as a parable-- OR-- it was a parable at the start and the actual Lazarus experience was some sort of bizzare coincidence as some must think (but I do not).... it matters not. As an experience and as a parable it would remain truth.

 

[Taken]

It's a nuanced understanding that some folks can't wrap their heads around. They mistakenly think "parable" means "made up" which is a slippery way of saying "not true." It's a grievous error to accuse the Christ of misleading folks.

Agree.

A parable, by nature is true in two senses. It casts a duality of truth-- in a literal, physical sense and at the same time, a spiritual truth above and beyond the apparent physical truth. Parables are doubly true.

Yes.

So even if this Lazarus was a telling of his near-death-experience, which later became as a parable-- OR-- it was a parable at the start and the actual Lazarus experience was some sort of bizzare coincidence as some must think (but I do not).... it matters not. As an experience and as a parable it would remain truth.

Medical aspect into the Secular have coined the term “a near death experience”, But I would rather say… Before Jesus was Revealed, and In Jesus’ Day, and into subsequent days, Humans “have” experienced DEATH, and “have been” Revived Back to LIVING…(which is to say…Their body Literally Died, void of the body’s Breath,, Their Living soul Literally departed their dead Body, Their Living soul returned to their body, Their body revived Living. And, they may or may not recollect their Living soul”s experience outside of their body.)

Jesus’ Parables were to teach men about “secrets” not before known.

Jesus “identified” by a “description”….
“ a certain rich man “.
(The clue is “certain”, being specific”, but “unnamed”).

Elijah “identified” by a “description”…
“A widow woman”, “that woman’s son who fell sick’, “her son then died” (void of his breath).
The “How” Elijah remedied, the death of the woman’s son….Appealing / Praying to God.
AND…the woman’s sons soul, by the Power of God, was returned to the boy’s body, and the boy’s body resumed Living.
(1 Kings 17: 8-23)

By the act of the woman, the dilemma of her son, the act of Elijah, the act of God, the revival of her son…
That woman, having never, Heard or Seen God…(By all that transpired)…Testified of her Belief in God).
(1 Kings 17: 8-24)

Turning to:
Luke 16: 16-31
Express persons are NAMED….(their body’s having Died, Dead and Buried.) Vivid experiences are detailed regarding Departed Living Souls. Circumstances for where the Departed Living souls ARE, and what those Departed Living souls ARE experiencing.

Turning to:
John 11: 1-45
More Express details regarding Expressly NAMED persons….(including Lazarus, also NAMED in ((Luke 16).
AND … WHO “expressly” in this scenario is “RAISING” the express Named man (Lazarus) from being Bodily dead and buried (for 4 days) …
AND… For those Persons WITNESSING Lazarus being raised from the DEAD…

What exactly DID “they” Witness?
Some unknown dead guy being raised from the dead? No.
A specifically NAMED dead man being raised from the Dead……..BY the Glory of God.

WHAT is the Glory of God?
Gods “POWER”.

WHO is the Glory of God?
“Christ”.

WHO is the Christ?
“Jesus”.

WHO / WHAT can, will, RAISE up the body’s OF DEAD human men?

1 Cor 1:
[24] But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, ….. and the wisdom of God.

Christ….the Power of God.

WISDOM? The Wisdom of God is ALSO vested “IN” Christ.
Why is that important for a man TO KNOW?

The Big Picture IS….”all departed living souls SHALL be returned to their dead body’s, for the purpose of all Body’s of men, MUST be present to stand BEFORE the JUDGE to Be Judged by their accuser and then Sentenced by the Judge…..”according to the Evidence”.

All will stand before the Judge…Jesus (as any man can look upon and see Jesus (the Son of man)….and be Judged by evidence (Gods’ BOOKS)….and Sentence Pronounced (NOT, by the individual’s Likability, Status of Power position, a “plea deal”, blah,blah….)
But rather by CHRIST, the ‘wisdom” of God…)!

Yes…any man Can speak a Parable, regarding a “scenario”, of unnamed persons, a particular circumstance, to “make a point” for a “favorable or unfavorable” result.

When Jesus….who IS identified, IS the TRUTH….speaks a Parable, every word spoken “IS” TRUE.
* Names Named. Body’s of men, Dead and buried. Departed Living Souls of men, hearing, seeing, communicating amongst themselves, tasting, speaking, feeling effects of comfort and discomfort….
IS in EFFECT JESUS revealing TRUTHS, that Departed Living souls of ALL dead men, (a saved soul or unsaved soul) SHALL also EXPERIENCE!

The “wisdom of A man”, is to GRASP the magnitude of WHAT is being revealed “shall occur” (become of), a man’s Living soul that Departs his dead and buried body; IS raised up by, through, of the Power of God and separated one from another, (with or without) God, by the Wisdom of God., (who KNOWS a mans True Hearts (spirit) of man.)

The “ignorance of A man”, is to say…Uh, Jesus spoke in Parables…Parables are made up stories….Y’all think Jesus really raised Lazarus from the dead…

Which BTW….is the beauty of Jesus’s WAY of communicating….Giving ONE “speech”, parable….
The “wise” will immediately recognize He who IS the TRUTH, is speaking, revealing secret knowledge into the open.
The “ignorant” will immediately key in a “parable”, eh, just a story, uh, ya think that really happened, Trying to instigate and TEMPT a debate and demand proof …
(giving NO consideration, Jesus can NOT LIE).
We know WHO the “great” TEMPTER IS, and how he operates.
We can ALSO wisely observe and know “who” mimics “who”.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[keithr]

However the Truth is:
It IS a Parable. It IS the Literal Truth.

A parable is not literally true. If a story is literally true then it is not a parable, by definiton. You're confused and confusing people again!

There ARE TWO “understandings” of words.

Thee is only one correct understanding of words. If words could have any meaning that we want, then the language is useless to us.

The Scriptures might have more than one meaning, such as a historical recording of events could at the same time be a prophetic type pointing to future persons and/or events. Paul explained how Scripture could be interpreted in that way, Galatians 4:22-26 (WEB):

(22) For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the servant, and one by the free woman.​

(23) However, the son by the servant was born according to the flesh, but the son by the free woman was born through promise.​

(24) These things contain an allegory, for these are two covenants. One is from Mount Sinai, bearing children to bondage, which is Hagar.​

(25) For this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and answers to the Jerusalem that exists now, for she is in bondage with her children.​

(26) But the Jerusalem that is above is free, which is the mother of us all.​

Via the MIND…
Via the SPIRIT….

When discussing Spiritual things…such as Scripture…
Which “understanding” of words would you say, is most beneficial to persons discussing Scripture?

If we can't understand it with our mind, then we can't understand it! God's Holy Spirit might lead us to understand parts of Scripture that we previously didn't fully, or correctly, understand, but we understand it with our minds.

1 Corinthians 2:7-16 (WEB):

(7) But we speak God’s wisdom in a mystery, the wisdom that has been hidden, which God foreordained before the worlds for our glory,​

(8) which none of the rulers of this world has known. For had they known it, they wouldn’t have crucified the Lord of glory.​

(9) But as it is written, “Things which an eye didn’t see, and an ear didn’t hear, which didn’t enter into the heart of man, these God has prepared for those who love him.”​

(10) But to us, God revealed them through the Spirit {the Holy Spirit} For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God.​

(11) For who among men knows the things of a man, except the spirit of the man, which is in him? Even so, no one knows the things of God, except God’s Spirit.​

(12) But we received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit which is from God, that we might know the things that were freely given to us by God.​

(13) Which things also we speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches, but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual things.​

(14) Now the natural man doesn’t receive the things of God’s Spirit, for they are foolishness to him, and he can’t know them, because they are spiritually discerned.​

(15) But he who is spiritual {enlightened by the Holy Spirit} discerns all things, and he himself is judged by no one.​

(16) “For who has known the mind of the Lord, that he should instruct him?” But we have Christ’s mind.​

 

[keithr]

So even if this Lazarus was a telling of his near-death-experience, which later became as a parable--

What makes you think the story is of a near-death experience? It says, Luke 16:22 (WEB):

(22) The beggar died, and he was carried away by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died, and was buried.​

At no point does it say that Lazarus revived and came back to life again. The rich man asks if the beggar can be raised from death and sent to the rich man's brothers, but Abraham says, Luke 16:31 (WEB):

(31) “He said to him, ‘If they don’t listen to Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded if one rises from the dead.’”​

But there is no indication that the beggar was raised from the dead. The implication is that they have remained dead, and will remain dead until the resurrection (when Christ returns).

 

[keithr]

When Jesus….who IS identified, IS the TRUTH….speaks a Parable, every word spoken “IS” TRUE.

A parable is a fictional story. When Jesus spoke a parable it was a made-up story, not a description of events that had actually happened.

 

[RedFan]

Thee is only one correct understanding of words. If words could have any meaning that we want, then the language is useless to us.

But sometimes words can have more than one meaning. (Isn't that a line from "Stairway to Heaven?") And when that is the case, we need to figure it what the declarant meant.

For instance, is this true or false:

 

[keithr]

But sometimes words can have more than one meaning. (Isn't that a line from "Stairway to Heaven?") And when that is the case, we need to figure it what the declarant meant.

Yes, some words can have more than one meaning - which makes communication and understanding more difficult than if all words had only one meaning! Some words even have the same spelling but different pronunciation for different meanings, to confuse things even more! e.g. we wind a clock; the clock was blown over by the wind; you are wearing a bow, so take a bow.

For instance, is this true or false:

View attachment 41284

Neither - it is a phrase or idiom, meaning that things might change later.

 

[RedFan]

Yes, some words can have more than one meaning - which makes communication and understanding more difficult than if all words had only one meaning! Some words even have the same spelling but different pronunciation for different meanings, to confuse things even more! e.g. we wind a clock; the clock was blown over by the wind; you are wearing a bow, so take a bow.


Neither - it is a phrase or idiom, meaning that things might change later.

Yes, that is one of three possible interpretations. The other two:

(1) The first word "Nothing" has been chiseled in, which proves that the phrase is true.

(2) Five words have been chiseled in, so something is written in stone, which proves that the phrase is false.

 

[Mr E]

What makes you think the story is of a near-death experience? It says, Luke 16:22 (WEB):

(22) The beggar died, and he was carried away by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died, and was buried.​

At no point does it say that Lazarus revived and came back to life again. The rich man asks if the beggar can be raised from death and sent to the rich man's brothers, but Abraham says, Luke 16:31 (WEB):

(31) “He said to him, ‘If they don’t listen to Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded if one rises from the dead.’”​

But there is no indication that the beggar was raised from the dead. The implication is that they have remained dead, and will remain dead until the resurrection (when Christ returns).

The man is named. His name is Lazarus. And there just happens to be a parallel story that no one thinks of as a parable, of an actual man by the name of Lazarus who died, and came back to life. --Which kind of destroys your argument about the dead remaining dead, don't you think?

At no point does it say that Lazarus revived and came back to life again.

Except it does. You just think that there are two different men named Lazarus and that it's all a big, fat coincidence that scripture would contain two stories of a man named Lazarus who dies and later tells about his experience. You can't get more 'near-death' than actually dying. When that happens to folks-- they often talk about it. That wouldn't be unusual.

What would be unusual would be in the short pages of scripture-- to have two separate and independent accounts of two men with the exact same name having such similar experiences.... It would also be unusual for Jesus to make up a fictional story and insert a fictional name for a main character to purposely create confusion... unless you think of Jesus as some sort of deceiver.

 

[Mr E]

A parable is a fictional story. When Jesus spoke a parable it was a made-up strory, not a description of events that had actually happened.

A parable is not literally true. If a story is literally true then it is not a parable, by definiton.

It doesn't matter how many times you say it---- It still won't be true.

Parables are simple, short stories used to illustrate a truth. There is no requirement that they be fictitious.