Is there a 'world of spirits'?

[Taken]

Is there a 'world of spirits'?

Yes.

Gen 1:
[1] In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Two CREATED
Habitats / Estates / Worlds

Out or each Habitat we find the CREATED and MADE "inhabitants" coming forth out of their respective Habitat.

In The Heavenly Habitat IS things Which "ARE" everlasting spirits.
In The Earthly Habitat IS things Which "HAVE" a natural (subject to Death) spirit.

Each CREATED Things...were MADE with FREEWILL...to Pick and Choose...their OWN Eternal God, and Eternal Habitat, WITH or WITHOUT;
the Lord God Almighty.

Once either of the CREATED "things";
spirits or man Makes his choice..."and Vow"...

The Eternal Habitat of that Individual is Forever Established...

The Sending (or Casting) of Individuals...spirits and man TO a particular HABIT...IS ongoing.

spirits and man, Whose Vow IS To;
The Lord God Almighty...SHALL...(in the Future according to Gods Fruition) ...
Forever Occupy The CLEANSED and RESTORED Habitat God CREATED FOR THEM.

In the meantime...
Holy spirits AND wicked evil spirits / AND Good men AND wicked evil men ARE currently Present ON the Earth...ALL trying to Reveal themselves as Trustworthy.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[amadeus]

Hi Helen,

I can respect your decision that you are willing to make a comment such as, "I say yes, there is a kingdom of light and a kingdom of darkness. A world of good spirits and a world of evil", but that doesn't mean that you'd be into having a scriptural discussion about it.

I guess I would appreciate at least a response to the scripture I gave and to know how it fits into your comment I just quoted, if you don't mind?

Here is the passage again,

Isaiah 45:6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

This is our LORD revealing truth to you about Himself, which knowing that truth and believing in it, one would think that does bring you closer to the LORD.

Honestly, I don't understand at all your comment about "side issues", we are talking about the LORD'S WORD, you want to tell me that parts of it are just vanity, empty stuff we shouldn't pay attention to as some of it has nothing to do with our relationship with the LORD?

Relating to what you have already posted there is this. There is is as I believe it the Right hand as well as the Left hand of God. Jesus related this to sheep and goats here:

"And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
For I was an hungered, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:" Matt 25:33-35

"Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
For I was an hungered, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:"
Matt 25:41-42

You can go I guess as deep as you want to go with it. You can go farther as I have done in the past saying there is no separate entity called the devil or named satan. Among most believers it will bring a lot of arguments, if that is what you want. The real question for myself and for @Helen who has already expressed her opinion here is does it edify anyone in the needful things in our walk with God?

How does arguing about the devil in me versus the devil outside me edify? What we need is to move in closer to God, whatever that takes. Surrender to the Holy Spirit in us as we partake of the flesh and blood of Jesus hopefully more often than we partaking of our natural food and drink. But when I get into the details of my belief on that it also draws in some who want to rebuke and to argue as if by some how winning an argument with someone that would edify. Then I must return to these words from Apostle Paul:

"I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase
So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase." I Cor 3:6-7

But not surprising not many pay close attention to the "God gave the increase". They often presume that if they can just convince you that you are wrong and they are right the "increase" will be given. It is really an unusual thing here to see a person openly admit that he has been in error and that someone with whom he has been discussing/arguing an issue was right all of the time. Would God that it would happen often. But as Solomon put it:

"Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts." Prov 21:2

The first phrase up to the colon still applies to every one of us. If every one of us was right because he was always following the lead of the Holy Spirit, it would be wonderful thing, but that is not what we see happening either, is it? But the second phrase after the colon also applies. This is what God is looking at in us rather than our perfectly argued and logically determined beliefs and doctrines. But how many here and in the churches all around us see or understand it that way?

 

[Helen]

The real question for myself and for @Helen who has already expressed her opinion here is does it edify anyone in the needful things in our walk with God?

Agree. Does it bring us any further along the road toward Home.
Yes we must be aware of the dark kingdom even as we are about the kingdom of Heaven which is right here...within and around.

'Be wise as serpents but as harmless as doves. '
I just know there are entities just as there are angels.
I have heard demons and it's not nice. I have help minister in deliverance meetings in casting them out...I assure you, unless they are commanded not to speak they will, for they love speaking if allowed .

Also, one time I was visiting a dying Husband of a friend ...he was my friend too. He was dying of cancer. I was at this time also a volunteer visitor on the geriatric ward. But I stood in for my friend for a few hours a day also , so she could go grocery shopping, get her hair done, and clean her house.

This one day I was feeling low as I left the hospital. One little lady on the geriatric ward died..and Leo out friend could not longer speak and nodded when I asked if he felt that Jesus was no longer with him. The morphine dulled his mind, but he needed it. ( He took 13 weeks to die!! )

As I walking out of the hospital crying and very sad..God opened my ears and I actually heard the demons laughing and cackling about all the pain, distress and misery they were causing people. They thrive on it, it is like candy to them. It was an experience that I don't need repeating ...I will never for it.

2 Kings 6 "But they that is with us are more than those who are with them. "

Praise God...we have read the end of the Book...God wins!!

 

[mjrhealth]

Now hear is the truth that I don't hear many people attest to that may blow your mind,

Exodus 4:11 And the LORD said unto him, Who hath made man's mouth? or who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? have not I the LORD?

Deut 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

Deut 28:1 And it shall come to pass, if thou shalt hearken diligently unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe and to do all his commandments which I command thee this day, that the LORD thy God will set thee on high above all nations of the earth: 2 And all these blessings shall come on thee, and overtake thee, if thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God. 3 Blessed shalt thou be in the city, and blessed shalt thou be in the field. 4 Blessed shall be the fruit of thy body, and the fruit of thy ground, and the fruit of thy cattle, the increase of thy kine, and the flocks of thy sheep...

....15 But it shall come to pass, if thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe to do all his commandments and his statutes which I command thee this day; that all these curses shall come upon thee, and overtake thee: 16 Cursed shalt thou be in the city, and cursed shalt thou be in the field. 17 Cursed shall be thy basket and thy store. 18 Cursed shall be the fruit of thy body, and the fruit of thy land, the increase of thy kine, and the flocks of thy sheep. 19 Cursed shalt thou be when thou comest in, and cursed shalt thou be when thou goest out. 20 The LORD shall send upon thee cursing, vexation, and rebuke, in all that thou settest thine hand unto for to do, until thou be destroyed, and until thou perish quickly; because of the wickedness of thy doings, whereby thou hast forsaken me...22 The LORD shall smite thee with a consumption, and with a fever, and with an inflammation, and with an extreme burning, and with the sword, and with blasting, and with mildew; and they shall pursue thee until thou perish....27 The LORD will smite thee with the botch of Egypt, and with the emerods, and with the scab, and with the itch, whereof thou canst not be healed. 28 The LORD shall smite thee with madness, and blindness, and astonishment of heart: 29 And thou shalt grope at noonday, as the blind gropeth in darkness, and thou shalt not prosper in thy ways: and thou shalt be only oppressed and spoiled evermore, and no man shall save thee. ..examples of cursing continues.

1 Samuel 16:14 But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.

The Israelites did disobey and they were CURSED BY GOD. Who brought forth these curses? God DID as He said He would, and they were delivered by His righteous angels.

The Israelites disobeyed as the believed in and worshiped other gods. You are told by God that these gods have no power, they cannot bless you or curse you, only God can do that, why God says it is only Him that you should fear.

But the Israelites believing in false gods denoted the cause of their cursing to come from 'wicked spirits', not according to the truth, they came according to God's righteous hand. Oh how they were filled with idolatry and total self-righteousness, those unclean spirits are the direct hand of God. God brings forth palsy, blindness, madness, all manner of viruses, bacteria, tumors, diseases, and infirmities. The whole work of the Book of Enoch is the perfect example of self -righteous Jews who were corrupted by pagan beliefs.

The adversary in the book of Job was only an adversary to Job. Job knew that the work of the adversary was the hand of God, he said it was. The adversary followed all of God's commands, the adversary was correct about Job, and Job in the end after all the cursing ended up learning more about himself and God. There is no such thing as "fallen angels", to believe in them is to believe in false gods and to be self-righteous.

If you are a pagan you believed in daimons and daimonions, these were believed to be spirits where some brought you blessing while others brought cursing. The truth is only God brings forth blessings and cursing- bad/unclean spirits.

God said He would curse, however He said also that He could HEAL. Jesus came an rebuked the unclean spirits, by his word he was given the power to heal.

Now if you grow up believing in wicked rebel spirits and then you suffer from madness, some form of insanity, what are you going to say in your insanity? What are you going to hallucinate and then say that you see? You are going to be propagating and perpetuating that wicked rebel spirits are true. Let's say you are a person that suffers from multiple personalities and you believe in wicked rebel spirits, one of your personalities no surprise turns up to be a wicked rebel spirit! Oh now that is proof that they must be real, NO! A whole family was suffering and believed their house was haunted and that demons were entering them, the truth, the house was filled with lead and the entire family went insane due to lead poisoning.

God does not make people sick, that would make Him like the devil.

 

[mjrhealth]

@Jodi Was it not the greatest lie ever created was when the devil convinced the world he doesnt exist. That makes men god, and without God there is no judgement.

Mar_1:13 And he was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted of Satan; and was with the wild beasts; and the angels ministered unto him.

 

[Jodi]

There is only one Creator, that's for sure; but we should not believe God is capable of inventing iniquity. Evil, in that passage, does not mean morally depraved or wicked. It means "bad" as a "bad field" that doesn't produce. Darkness is also created; but darkness is not a thing -- it is not the "presence" of something -- it is the absence of light.

Both "evil" (or "bad") and "darkness" therefore are states that do not exist in reality. To understand them, we must use our imagination. God also uses His imagination to create these non-real states.

Note now that it is said God "forms" the light -- it is not said He "creates" it. Genesis 1 also does not say God "created" light. He didn't. The creation was dark, and light was formed by calling it forth out of the darkness -- by the Word.

Similarly shalom or peace is not created but made out of the created "evil."

All of God's works are good; and by works, I mean real things. "Bad" or the "unproductive -- and darkness are imaginary states and do not count as works.

Some spiritual beings have become evil in the sense of iniquity. God did not make them that way. God is perfectly Good and Loving. Do not imagine any imperfection in God.

Hi Giuliano, thanks for your reply.

I agree with you, of course God is not capable of iniquity, our Creator IS righteous, perfect. The word translated evil as you know is RA, which reflects bad/disagreeable/pain/suffering/adversity...ect. Our God curses/punishes according to righteous purpose. Men on the other hand do that which is BAD for greed, selfish gain, lack of self control.

God says that false gods are not to be feared, as they can do no harm nor any good, they don't exist as scripture tells us they are the product of man's own imagination. Furthermore God says that He is the only one who can bless and who can curse, there are no other supernatural powers, it is only Him God says that we should fear.

I do not see one scripture in the bible where there are celestial messengers Of God that turned and rebelled against Him. To me according to scripture, the doctrine from men regarding fallen celestial messengers, is nothing more than images of false gods. A false god doesn't merely equate to something you worship, but a false god is anyone who you denote God's powers to, that He says that He ALONE has.

Now imagine you are a Jew who went after false gods and believed the daimons (demons) of paganism were true, thus you would believe that the supernatural ability to curse humans was done according to wickedness, as pagans believed in both good demons and bad/wicked demons. So here you are going after false gods breaking God's commandment where God said He would curse you for it, and when you are cursed you denote it to wicked demons, instead of God carrying out that which He said He would do. Shouldn't it be obvious that the idea of fallen celestial messengers is the product of pagan beliefs being applied to Christianity? In the world of paganism there were good spirits (daimons/demons) and there were bad/wicked spirits (daimons/demons).

If you were an epileptic back in the day, having seizures where you would foam at the mouth and vomit, and lose all control of your body, you were believed to have a wicked spirit in you, you were seen as possessed by a demon. God says He alone brings forth all manner of diseases, infirmities, madness, blindness, deaf and mute..etc just read Deut 28.

Deut 32:39 See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.

Jesus came and people witnessed him HEAL, and he healed through having God's Spirit and power upon him. David played music which made the bad spirit God placed on Saul depart from him. It is God ALONE that has the power to wound/inflict and to heal.

Now imagine you believe in "wicked" demons, and you hold all the imagery that man has created about these false wicked spirits, and you are suffering from mental illness/ your mad, like you have split personalities, is it any surprise if you find one of those personalities is none other than a false wicked demon? By this people are all the more convinced that wicked demons that possess you are true.

The adversary in the book of Job is not a rebellious wicked fallen celestial messenger, that which the adversary does is by the command of God, and Job himself says that he is suffering from the hand of God. This messenger is a SAW-TAWN unto Job, not a rebel against God. The messenger was right about Job, and the infliction upon Job was not done for wicked purposes but to refine Job. God's messengers carrying out His will of cursing were seen unto the people as SAW-TAWNS/Adversaries, one who "opposes" you, one who is cursing you "standing against you".

What sort of Saw-TAWN/Adversary would move David to number his men? An army that David perceived was threatening and coming up against him of course. That Satan made David fear, and instead of looking to God he looked to number his army.

In Zech 3 there is a SAW-TAWN against the high priest Joshua. Joshua was a leader to reconstruct the temple, he had a human adversary come and attempt to thwart the reconstruction. That was his adversary SAW-TAWN and God would not allow it.

 

[Helen]

In Zech 3 there is a SAW-TAWN against the high priest Joshua. Joshua was a leader to reconstruct the temple, he had a human adversary come and attempt to thwart the reconstruction. That was his adversary SAW-TAWN and God would not allow it.

Hello Jodi.
So who was it that is said to be Satan who came to Jesus while in the wilderness and tempted Him three times before 'departing' from Him?

....H

 

[Nancy]

Jodi said:
"...The adversary in the book of Job is not a rebellious wicked fallen celestial messenger, that which the adversary does is by the command of God, and Job himself says that he is suffering from the hand of God. This messenger is a SAW-TAWN unto Job, not a rebel against God. The messenger was right about Job, and the infliction upon Job was not done for wicked purposes but to refine Job. God's messengers carrying out His will of cursing were seen unto the people as SAW-TAWNS/Adversaries, one who "opposes" you, one who is cursing you "standing against you".

What sort of Saw-TAWN/Adversary would move David to number his men? An army that David perceived was threatening and coming up against him of course. That Satan made David fear, and instead of looking to God he looked to number his army.

In Zech 3 there is a SAW-TAWN against the high priest Joshua. Joshua was a leader to reconstruct the temple, he had a human adversary come and attempt to thwart the reconstruction. That was his adversary SAW-TAWN and God would not allow it.[/QUOTE]

Satan generally works through humans to do his dirty deeds yet, God will use him for many other evils in the world. Sickness and death and all diseases, to me anyhow, come through a broken and fallen world...and things like epilepsy and such I would include in that. Yet, in the bible when Jesus healed Mary Magdeline, it was said she had demons possessing her, it was also said of the man who Jesus cast out many demons into the herd of swine. Did they invite Satan and demons to get a foothold in their lives? My guess is that they did, through their sin. I do not believe how some Christians use the excuse of "Satan made me do it", lol...we have sin living in us and will have to deal with the consequences of our choices. Just like David did when he feared...he did not go directly to God Himself for help...
So, I will say that I sure do believe in Satan's influence in this world.
Welcome to the forum, looks like we will have another person who has some interesting points of view!
I don't agree that God did all those things to Job but that God allowed Satan to torment him.
And, as @Helen mentioned above "So who was it that is said to be Satan who came to Jesus while in the wilderness and tempted Him three times before 'departing' from Him?" A good question.

 

[Jodi]

God does not make people sick, that would make Him like the devil.

mjrhealth,

Please read the scriptures below and I look forward to hearing an explanation,

Deuteronomy 28:15 But it shall come to pass, if thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe to do all his commandments and his statutes which I command thee this day; that all these curses shall come upon thee, and overtake thee: 16 Cursed shalt thou be in the city, and cursed shalt thou be in the field. 17 Cursed shall be thy basket and thy store. 18 Cursed shall be the fruit of thy body, and the fruit of thy land, the increase of thy kine, and the flocks of thy sheep. 19 Cursed shalt thou be when thou comest in, and cursed shalt thou be when thou goest out. 20 The LORD shall send upon thee cursing, vexation, and rebuke, in all that thou settest thine hand unto for to do, until thou be destroyed, and until thou perish quickly; because of the wickedness of thy doings, whereby thou hast forsaken me. 21 The LORD shall make the pestilence cleave unto thee, until he have consumed thee from off the land, whither thou goest to possess it. 22 The LORD shall smite thee with a consumption, and with a fever, and with an inflammation, and with an extreme burning, and with the sword, and with blasting, and with mildew; and they shall pursue thee until thou perish. 23 And thy heaven that is over thy head shall be brass, and the earth that is under thee shall be iron. 24 The LORD shall make the rain of thy land powder and dust: from heaven shall it come down upon thee, until thou be destroyed. 25 The LORD shall cause thee to be smitten before thine enemies: thou shalt go out one way against them, and flee seven ways before them: and shalt be removed into all the kingdoms of the earth. 26 And thy carcase shall be meat unto all fowls of the air, and unto the beasts of the earth, and no man shall fray them away. 27 The LORD will smite thee with the botch of Egypt, and with the emerods, and with the scab, and with the itch, whereof thou canst not be healed. 28 The LORD shall smite thee with madness, and blindness, and astonishment of heart: 29 And thou shalt grope at noonday, as the blind gropeth in darkness, and thou shalt not prosper in thy ways: and thou shalt be only oppressed and spoiled evermore, and no man shall save thee.

Deut 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

Isaiah 45:6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else. 7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil (RA-BAD): I the LORD do all these things.

Several years ago when I discussed scriptures with two Jehovah Witnesses once a week for a few weeks, we came to this same topic. They could NOT accept the above scriptures, they did all they could to twist the truth, saying it was not actually God cursing, but rather God just "allowing Satan" to curse, as God would not do such things himself. After going over the passages again, "The LORD shall SMITE THEE" they still refused and at that point I was done, and told them to leave and not come back. No point in having a discussion with people who flat out deny the CLEAR given word of the LORD.

There are scriptures that I do see as debatable, they are debatable because people apply the wrong perception to them, the perception from a man made doctrine. In debating, I start with the clear given truth that the LORD has established, and then I take that truth and apply it to the scriptures that people misinterpret because their perception is from the doctrine of men, instead of the acknowledgement of the clear given truth.

So mjrhealth, what do you say about the passages above and also these below?

1 Samuel 16:14 But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him. 15 And Saul's servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubleth thee. 16 Let our lord now command thy servants, which are before thee, to seek out a man, who is a cunning player on an harp: and it shall come to pass, when the evil spirit from God is upon thee, that he shall play with his hand, and thou shalt be well.

Deut 32:39 See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.

How I see it,
To say that there is another supernatural being that has power to wound and kill, to create darkness and bad according to their own will, is to perpetuate a FALSE god, and to directly speaks AGAINST the LORD'S clear given WORD.

SATAN in the OT,

God's righteous angels carry out God's will and are a SATAN unto man.

Numbers 22:22 And God's anger was kindled because he went: and the angel of the LORD stood in the way for an adversary (SATAN/SAW-TAWN) against him. Now he was riding upon his ass, and his two servants were with him.

God raises up men to be SATAN unto other men.

I Kings 11:14 Then the LORD raised up an adversary (SATAN/SAW-TAWN) to Solomon, Hadad the Edomite; he was of the royal line in Edom...23 God also raised up another adversary (SATAN) to him, Rezon the son of Eliada, who had fled from his lord Hadadezer king of Zobah....25 So he was an adversary (SATAN) to Israel all the days of Solomon, along with the evil that Hadad did; and he abhorred Israel and reigned over Aram.

Start with the OT, find me one passage where adversary (SATAN/SAW-TAWN) is represented as a wicked rebel spirit that has supernatural powers and is using those powers for his own wicked purpose, because he is against God and man?

 

[Jodi]

@Jodi Was it not the greatest lie ever created was when the devil convinced the world he doesnt exist. That makes men god, and without God there is no judgement.

Mar_1:13 And he was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted of Satan; and was with the wild beasts; and the angels ministered unto him.

Hi mjhealth,

Once again I want to bring up what is the clear given truth,

Genesis makes it clear in the beginning that it is man’s OWN IMAGINATION that gets him into trouble.

5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

21 And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man’s sake; for the imagination of man’s heart is evil from his youth.

Deuteronomy and Chronicles,

19 And it come to pass, when he heareth the words of this curse, that he bless himself in his heart, saying, I shall have peace, though I walk in the imagination of mine heart, to add drunkenness to thirst:

21 And it shall come to pass, when many evils and troubles are befallen them, that this song shall testify against them as a witness; for it shall not be forgotten out of the mouths of their seed: for I know their imagination which they go about, even now, before I have brought them into the land which I sware.

9 And thou, Solomon my son, know thou the God of thy father, and serve him with a perfect heart and with a willing mind: for the LORD searcheth all hearts, and understandeth all the imaginations of the thoughts: if thou seek him, he will be found of thee; but if thou forsake him, he will cast thee off for ever.

Proverbs,

18 A heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,

Lamentations

60 Thou hast seen all their vengeance and all their imaginations against me.

61 Thou hast heard their reproach, O LORD, and all their imaginations against me;

Jeremiah makes it VERY clear

24 But they hearkened not, nor inclined their ear, but walked in the counsels and in the imagination of their evil heart, and went backward, and not forward.

14 But have walked after the of their own heart, and after Baalim, which their fathers taught them:

8 Yet they obeyed not, nor inclined their ear, but walked every one in the imagination of their evil heart:

10 This evil people, which refuse to hear my words, which walk in the imagination of their heart, and walk after other gods, to serve them, and to worship them, shall even be as this girdle, which is good for nothing.

12 And ye have done worse than your fathers; for, behold, ye walk every one after the imagination of his evil heart, that they may not hearken unto me:

12 And they said, There is no hope: but we will walk after our own devices, and we will every one do the imagination of his evil heart.

17 They say still unto them that despise me, The LORD hath said, Ye shall have peace; and they say unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you.

Luke 1:51 He hath shewed strength with his arm; he hath scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts.

Paul,

21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

But there is MUCH MORE,

Proverbs 1:31 Therefore shall they eat of the fruit of their own way, and be filled with their OWN devices.

Jeremiah 4: 22 For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.

Ezekiel 13: 3 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe unto the foolish prophets, that follow their own spirit, and have seen nothing!

Jeremiah 23:16 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the LORD. 17 They say still unto them that despise me, The LORD hath said, Ye shall have peace; and they say unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you.

Spiritual wickedness is the wickedness of men according to their OWN imaginations.

Revelations 18: 23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.

Ephesians 4: 14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

James 1:8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.....14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. 15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

Phillipians 3:19 Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)

1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

Mark 4:19 And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.

John 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

1 Corinthians 2:5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God. 6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought: 7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: 8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. 9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. 10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. 11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

Matthew 6:23 But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness! 24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

Jude 1: 10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core. 18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts. 19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit...22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. 23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:...26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.

 

[Jodi]

Hi mjrhealth,

MORE,

Mark 7:21 For it is from WITHIN, from the human heart, that evil intentions come: fornication, theft, murder, 22 adultery, avarice, wickedness, deceit, licentiousness, envy, slander, pride, folly. 23 All these evil things come from within, and they defile a person."

"That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit."

Job 18: 1 Then answered Bildad the Shuhite, and said, 2 How long will it be ere ye make an end of words? mark, and afterwards we will speak. 3 Wherefore are we counted as beasts, and reputed vile in your sight? 4 He teareth himself in his anger: shall the earth be forsaken for thee? and shall the rock be removed out of his place? 5 Yea, the light of the wicked shall be put out, and the spark of his fire shall not shine. 6 The light shall be dark in his tabernacle, and his candle shall be put out with him. 7 The steps of his strength shall be straitened, and his own counsel shall cast him down. 8 For he is cast into a net BY HIS OWN FEET, and he walketh upon a snare.

10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.

Palms 73: 22 So foolish was I, and ignorant: I was as a beast before thee.

Man deceives himself

Jeremiah 37: 9 Thus saith the LORD; Deceive not yourselves,

I Corinthians 3: 18 Let no man deceive himself.

1 John 1: 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Deuteronomy 11: 16 Take heed to yourselves, that your heart be not deceived

Obadiah 1:3 The pride of thine heart hath deceived thee, thou that dwellest in the clefts of the rock, whose habitation is high; that saith in his heart, Who shall bring me down to the ground?

Romans 7: 11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

I'll give this one again,

James 1:8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.....14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. 15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death

Psalms 140: 3 They have sharpened their tongues like a serpent; adders' poison is under their lips.

Psalms 58:1 Do ye indeed speak righteousness, O congregation? do ye judge uprightly, O ye sons of men? 2 Yea, in heart ye work wickedness; ye weigh the violence of your hands in the earth. 3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies. 4 Their poison is like the poison of a serpent: they are like the deaf adder that stoppeth her ear; 5 Which will not hearken to the voice of charmers, charming never so wisely. 6 Break their teeth, O God, in their mouth: break out the great teeth of the young lions, O LORD. 7 Let them melt away as waters which run continually: when he bendeth his bow to shoot his arrows, let them be as cut in pieces.

Isaiah 59:4 None calleth for justice, nor any pleadeth for truth: they trust in vanity, and speak lies; they conceive mischief, and bring forth iniquity.

Jeremiah 9:3 And they bend their tongues like their bow for lies: but they are not valiant for the truth upon the earth; for they proceed from evil to evil, and they know not me, saith the LORD...5 And they will deceive every one his neighbour, and will not speak the truth: they have taught their tongue to speak lies, and weary themselves to commit iniquity.

Jeremiah 14:14 Then the LORD said unto me, The prophets prophesy lies in my name: I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spake unto them: they prophesy unto you a false vision and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their heart.

10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.

MAN is likened to beasts, likened to a serpent because they are deaf and blind to God and the poison of lies is under their tongue as they follow the imagination of their own hearts. They are like lions having wicked teeth, where man is said to shoot arrows of lies.

 

[Nancy]

Hi mjhealth,

Once again I want to bring up what is the clear given truth,

Genesis makes it clear in the beginning that it is man’s OWN IMAGINATION that gets him into trouble.

5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

21 And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man’s sake; for the imagination of man’s heart is evil from his youth.

Deuteronomy and Chronicles,

19 And it come to pass, when he heareth the words of this curse, that he bless himself in his heart, saying, I shall have peace, though I walk in the imagination of mine heart, to add drunkenness to thirst:

21 And it shall come to pass, when many evils and troubles are befallen them, that this song shall testify against them as a witness; for it shall not be forgotten out of the mouths of their seed: for I know their imagination which they go about, even now, before I have brought them into the land which I sware.

You are speaking some weird things of YOUR own imagination. Most of the woes of the OT Jews was because Gods Commandments were CONDITIONAL. If you do this, I will do this, if you do not do this then this or that will befall you. We are now under grace and, yes, we live with the consequences of our own choices but, God is not punishing anyone at this time, only at the Judgement. He chastens and allows us to go through tough times yet, our faith-if we have TRUE faith, will bring us through all of them.
In the Garden of Eden, I read that there are 3 created beings. God made all things "very good". Who was it that tempted Eve? It was Satan who was once the most beautiful angel, Lucifer. He rebelled and became Satan. So, did Eve tempt Eve??
How can you throw away the many VERY clear scriptures pertaining to Satan??!
What of Eph. 6:11? "Put on the full armor of God, so that you can take your stand against the devil’s schemes." Who is this "devil"?

1 Peter 5:8 "Be alert and of sober mind. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour." How do you reconcile this?" So, who is this roaring lion?

2 Cor. 11:14 " And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light." And this??

Eph. 6:12 " For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms."

James 4:7 "Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you."

Jude 1:9 "But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not himself dare to condemn him for slander but said, “The Lord rebuke you!” Was The Archangel Michael disputing with himself?
How do you reconcile these very few scriptures out of a ton more to what you believe??
I'm sorry, but there is nothing that I can agree with here. Satan is as real as you or I. I think you are on dangerous ground. JMO.

 

[mjrhealth]

@Jodi Yes clearly you have a wonderful imagination. Pity it isnt true. As for that d..l well his fingers are in a lot of posts on this and other christian forums and church are filled with his works.

 

[Jodi]

Hi mrjhealth,

All the scriptures given so far tell you CLEARLY/EXACTLY where deceit and lies come from, why men sin. There is NO scripture that says there are wicked rebel spirits floating around influencing humans to sin.

Romans 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man (anthropos/HUMAN) sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

DEATH comes from being carnally minded. Put simple two and two together. Sin and thus death came because of the CARNAL MIND, Adam and Eve were of a Carnal Mind. Being of a carnal mind doesn't mean that you choose to follow the influence of wicked rebel spirits, it means you choose to follow your own hearts imagination.

Adam and Eve were made of flesh, it is vanity to think that they are different from animals in that sense. They are of a carnal mind just like that of all beasts are of a carnal mind. God gave them one commandment, but being of carnal mind they are not subject to the law, they are not capable, as of their own selves they are no different than that of a serpent, having a carnal mind they are deaf and blind to God, they follow their own nature, and the nature of man is to follow the IMAGINATION of his own heart, and that imagination deceives, poison of lies is under it's tongue.

Ephesians 4:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

Colossians 3:9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;

Matthew 12:34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.

1 Corinthians 2: 11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. 13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. 16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

Is it NOT CLEAR that man's great adversary (SATAN) who is a slanderer/deciever (DIABOLOS/devil) is none other than the carnal mind that follows the heart of it's own imagination? YES it is!! Jesus calls Peter SATAN/ADVERSARY for he had in MIND THE THINGS OF MEN, NOT BECAUSE he was possessed by a wicked rebel spirit. THE DEVIL (slanderer) of Revelation 2 that put Christians into prisons bringing forth persecution and crucifixion were slanderous men, adversaries follow their own imaginations.

John 8:28 Then said Jesus unto them,When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.

Isaiah 11:1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: 2 And the Spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the Spirit of wisdom and understanding, the Spirit of counsel and might, the Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD; 3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:

JESUS quotes this passage in Luke 4, shortly after he came out of the wilderness, which he went into the wilderness just after he was said to have left the river Jordan having been FILLED with the Holy Spirit, Isaiah 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed (CHRIO-made into the Christos) me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; 2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;

The spirit of man knows not God, he can do nothing of himself, he is natural/ of a carnal mind like that of a serpent deaf and blind to God following his own nature, and the nature of man is to follow the imagination of his own heart of which creates lies and deceit, for the truth of God is not in him, just ignorance and his own ideas.

As Paul teaches us those that are LED by the Spirit of God are the Sons of God, Jesus rose up from the water at his baptism and the Spirit descended upon him and God said "THIS is my beloved Son". He was then SENT into the wilderness being said to have left the river Jordan being filled with the Spirit and being LED by the Spirit.

We are also told that Jesus was in every way tempted as we are but he remained without sin. God had promised unto the son of Jesse that He would call him to righteousness, hold his hand and keep him, direct all his ways, SEND him out to be a LIGHT, to speak God's words and not his own.

Paul tells you that the god of man is his OWN BELLY. Jesus tells you that man cannot serve God and mammon. Jesus tells you that out of man's own heart evil intentions come.

Jesus goes into the wilderness and AFTER he goes without food 40 days he HUNGERED and then the DEVIL/SLANDERER came to him.

Scripture tells you that MAN DECEIVES himself, that we must put off the former conversation, the old man which is corrupted by deceitful lusts. Jesus was HUNGRY and God gave him the power of His Spirit where he could turn and use that power for himself, make bread from stones. Jesus speaks to the adversary and quotes Deuteronomy 8 saying that "man cannot live on bread alone, but by ever word that proceeds out of God's mouth".

Jesus was of weak mortal flesh, hence the fact he could get hungry. Jesus was a man able to be tempted, and you are told DIRECTLY "But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed."

God's Spirit was upon Jesus however, holding his hand and keeping him, causing him to overcome and not give into his own lust but instead live by God's word. God DID NOT give Jesus authority to use God's powers for Jesus's own will, but his weak hungry flesh was tempting his carnal mind to do so.

The CARNAL MIND TELLS you that you need FOOD in ORDER to LIVE, such is true, our bodies due need food or else we would die, if our carnal minds didn't tell us we were hungry we wouldn't eat and then we would die. But our carnal mind doesn't just tell us we are hungry and need food, it imagines, invents, plans and plots ways to get it.

Man on his own does not know good from evil, right from wrong, just like animals are oblivious, and that which man imagines, stealing, lying, killing, he will do so in order to serve his flesh. NOT only this, but even if man is given the law that says don't steel, lie, or cheat to fulfill the needs of the flesh, mans is incapable on his own of following that law. That is where God and His mercy comes in and the giving of the fruits of His Spirit, those fruits cause us to walk in God's ways, patience, kindness, understanding, self-control, and FAITH.

Jesus received of the Spirit of God without measure, and in the wilderness he proved his faith. God proved to us through Jesus that His Spirit resting upon you can cause a man to overcome the temptations of the carnal mind aroused by weak flesh. Jesus denied the adversary/slanderer, his own carnal mind that was tempting him to use God's powers for his own will. Through the Spirit upon him he was able to trust in God and God's will over that of his own.

God made our bodies to hunger and need food in order to live, not some wicked rebel spirits.
God gave man a carnal mind with an imagination and allows for men to follow their own ideas.

Proverbs 1:31 Therefore shall they eat of the fruit of their own way, and be filled with their own devices.

There is no scripture that identifies our adversary, our slanderer/deceiver as being wicked rebel spirits that influence us, it is our OWN devices thought up from our own carnal minds that we follow and thus deceives us.

 

[Jodi]

Hi Nancy,

Thanks for your reply and keeping this conversation going!

Isaiah 45:6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else. 7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil (RA-BAD): I the LORD do all these things.

Deut 32:39 See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.

You want to tell me that the plagues brought to Egypt were of God but other plagues on earth throughout history and right now came/come forth from some other god?

Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

It is God that brings forth tribulation unto the world, He has done so since the beginning and will do so until the end when Christ returns, at that time that tribulation will be greater than the world has ever seen. That tribulation is at the hand of God, according to His will and purpose, just as tribulations of the past, present and future are as well.

 

[mjrhealth]

@Jodi

. 13 For such ones are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. 14 Did not even Satan marvelously transform himself into an angel of light? 15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves as ministers of righteousness, whose end shall be according to their works.

For the devil to appear to one as an Angel of light, one must be walking in the darkness, because his light, that appears to be light, cannot outshine the one who is the light of the world.

God bless

 

[Jodi]

Hi Nancy,

YOU:In the Garden of Eden, I read that there are 3 created beings. God made all things "very good". Who was it that tempted Eve? It was Satan who was once the most beautiful angel, Lucifer. He rebelled and became Satan. So, did Eve tempt Eve??

ME: I have no idea what you are talking about in regards to 3 created beings?

God made all things "very good" and He made all things HAVING DECLARED the END from the beginning, and that END is God declaring that He will be ALL IN ALL. His WORD before the world began was a PROMISE of ETERNAL LIFE.

So now you have done it! Now you are speaking directly of a doctrine of man and not scripture.

Lucifer is the Greek name for the PLANET VENUS a planet that bears light in the morning, and Lucifer was to the Greeks the god Phospheros.

Lucifer also known unto the Romans as the Star god.

Let me remind you of scripture where God tells you that false gods are FAKE, they have no power to do good or evil. I have heard people argue that the gods of pagans are real, they are just fallen angels. Such goes directly against God's WORD, they are not real and they were INVENTED by FOOLS, men's ignorant imagination, God directly tells you.

Obediah 1: 1 The vision of Obadiah. Thus saith the Lord GOD concerning Edom; We have heard a rumour from the LORD, and an ambassador is sent among the heathen, Arise ye, and let us rise up against her in battle. 2 Behold, I have made thee small among the heathen: thou art greatly despised . 3 The PRIDE of thine HEART hath DECEIVED thee, thou that dwellest in the clefts of the rock, whose habitation is high; that saith IN HIS HEART, Who shall bring me down to the ground? 4 Though thou exalt thyself as the eagle, and though thou set thy nest among the stars, thence will I bring thee down , saith the LORD.

Man in his own pride from his own heart he deceives himself, thinking he can rise to the heavens, dwell among the stars. Man will exalt himself as an eagle, as a god, but God brings him down. Men whose habitation is HIGH, having wealth and authority, armies to carry out their will of oppression unto people and nations of people, God will cast them down from heaven unto the grave.

Isaiah 63:6 And I will tread down the people in mine anger, and make them drunk in my fury, and I will bring down their strength to the earth.

Hosea 7:12 When they shall go, I will spread my net upon them; I will bring them down as the fowls of the heaven; I will chastise them, as their congregation hath heard.

Amos 9:1 I saw the Lord standing upon the altar: and he said, Smite the lintel of the door, that the posts may shake: and cut them in the head, all of them; and I will slay the last of them with the sword: he that fleeth of them shall not flee away, and he that escapeth of them shall not be delivered. 2 Though they dig into hell, thence shall mine hand take them; though they climb up to heaven, thence will I bring them down:

Isaiah 25:10 For in this mountain shall the hand of the LORD rest, and Moab shall be trodden down under him, even as straw is trodden down for the dunghill. 11 And he shall spread forth his hands in the midst of them, as he that swimmeth spreadeth forth his hands to swim: and he shall bring down their pride together with the spoils of their hands. 12 And the fortress of the high fort of thy walls shall he bring down, lay low, and bring to the ground, even to the dust.

Matthew 11:23 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.

Daniel tells you that it is God that RAISES UP kings who then have HIGH POWER, HIGH AUTHORITY, and these Kings often become full of HIGH pride, some even declaring themselves to be a god of heaven.

Isaiah 14:4 That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased! 5 The LORD hath broken the staff of the wicked, and the sceptre of the rulers. 6 He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, and none hindereth.... 11 Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee. 12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer (Heylel -light bearer), son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! 13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. 15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. 16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;

The king of Babylon in this chapter is not being likened to an angel that then fell from heaven. This chapter is not speaking of both the king of Babylon and also speaking of an angel that fell, such is men forcing the text to fit their doctrine. The king of Babylon is being likened to the planet Venus, of which was denoted unto pagans as a god, thus a FALSE god, which the King of Babylon wanted to exalt his throne above the stars of God and be like the most High. The king's POMP brought him down, if he was ever a bearer of light, it most certainly went out because of his own anger that caused him to smote the people with his wrath.

In Revelation 12 the DRAGON you are directly told are KINGS, KINGS that think they are gods in heaven, and God is going to cast them down. War in the heavens is a war of the HIGHEST powers, the powers of men who think they dwell on high who do not fear the LORD will go to war against the powers of God and be cast down.

The DRAGON is made up of KINGS and their messengers, not fallen angels, nor KINGS influenced by fallen angels, they are men who know not God, they are a SATAN/ADVERSARY BECAUSE they have IN MIND the things of MEN being "of the conversation of the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;" They are men who follow their carnal mind/the imagination of their own hearts, where they are a SERPENT the poison of lies is under their tongue making the DEVILS. They are as asps being deaf and blind to God's word, only knowing and doing what they know naturally walking according to their own imaginations.

 

[Helen]

Hi Nancy,

Thanks for your reply and keeping this conversation going!

Isaiah 45:6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else. 7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil (RA-BAD): I the LORD do all these things.

Deut 32:39 See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.

You want to tell me that the plagues brought to Egypt were of God but other plagues on earth throughout history and right now came/come forth from some other god?

Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

It is God that brings forth tribulation unto the world, He has done so since the beginning and will do so until the end when Christ returns, at that time that tribulation will be greater than the world has ever seen. That tribulation is at the hand of God, according to His will and purpose, just as tribulations of the past, present and future are as well.

God shows us clearly in the OT that He sent, as @Nancy mention woes and trials upon them, because they did not believe.
He even suggested to Satan to test Job ...to bring Job to a deeper understanding of Himself. Then he restored to Job more than he lost.

In the NT Jesus Christ took sin, sickness, and disease upon Himself that we may go free of these curses.

You have chosen to believe what you believe about The Accuser of the brethren.
I don't believe it for a moment...but what I believe doesn't matter.

I do ask a question..you can answer it or side step it...no matter.

In 1974 the satanist Alex Saunders moved to our town , and close to house.
( Alex Sanders (6 June 1926 – 30 April 1988), born Orrell Alexander Carter, who went under the craft name Verbius, was an English occultist and High Priest in the Pagan religion of Wicca, responsible for founding the tradition of Alexandrian Wicca during the 1960s. Raised in a working-class family, he was introduced to esoteric ideas by his mother and grandmother from a young age, and as a young man began working as a medium in the local Spiritualist Churches before going on to study and practice ceremonial magic. In 1963, he was initiated into Gardnerian Wicca before founding his own coven, through which he merged many aspects of ceremonial magic into Wicca. He claimed to have been initiated by his Grandmother as a child, though evidence for this is lacking. Throughout the 1960s, he would court publicity in the press, appearing in a number of documentaries, marrying the far younger Maxine Sanders, and being declared to be the "King of the Witches" by his followers, something that led to other prominent Gardnerian Witches, such as Patricia Crowther and Eleanor Bone, attacking him in the press. In the late 1970s and 1980s, he went on to work with a ceremonial magical group known as the Ordine Della Luna, prior to his death. The tradition he founded with Maxine Sanders became known as Alexandrian Wicca. )

We knew he was in town and our group started praying against him and binding his power. ( we were NOT 'praying against' God...but against the Enemy of the saints)

I was walking down a street with my two small children... a man walked toward us ..as he drew near on the sidewalk the hair went up the back of my neck..and I just "knew"...I lay my hands upon my kids heads as he walked by. I turned to look at him, as as I did he too turned...and we stood eye to eye. I 'knew' this was Alex Saunders.
We continued to meet for 4 meeting a week , and we prayed and praised against him and his coven. Long story shot..Saunders asked to meet with my husband and a friend who also was an oversight over our church.
They met. He asked if our group would stop praying against him. We said 'no, and we will pray you out of the town.' Which happened less than a year later.

So my question is...Who do the satanist worship? And where do they get their power peak? and where does that power come from?
... if there is no such thing as Satan and his demons. ???

 

[Helen]

Hi Nancy,

quoting Nancy:- In the Garden of Eden, I read that there are 3 created beings. God made all things "very good". Who was it that tempted Eve? It was Satan who was once the most beautiful angel, Lucifer. He rebelled and became Satan. So, did Eve tempt Eve??

Jodi said :- "I have no idea what you are talking about in regards to 3 created beings?

God made all things "very good" and He made all things HAVING DECLARED the END from the beginning, and that END is God declaring that He will be ALL IN ALL. His WORD before the world began was a PROMISE of ETERNAL LIFE.

So now you have done it! Now you are speaking directly of a doctrine of man and not scripture.

Come on Jodi, that is a very obvious cop-out to all the readers here. You are sidestepping Nancy's question to stick to you usual verses.

You are pretending that you don't understand Nancy's question...it is obvious to a child that Nancy is asking you who else was in the Garden other than Adam, Eve, and the Serpent/The Enemy ( not a snake)

If there is no Satan Nancy is asking WHO tempted Eve , and did Eve tempt herself...if so how come God cursed 'the Serpent' and spoke to it?
If it wasn't there??

...Helen

 

[Jodi]

Hi Nancy,

Psalms 57:3 He shall send from heaven, and save me from the reproach of him that would swallow me up. God shall send forth his mercy and his truth. 4 My soul is among lions: and I lie even among them that are set on fire, even the sons of men, whose teeth are spears and arrows, and their tongue a sharp sword. 5 Be thou exalted, O God, above the heavens; let thy glory be above all the earth. 6 They have prepared a net for my steps; my soul is bowed down: they have digged a pit before me, into the midst whereof they are fallen themselves.

Psalms 17:9 From the wicked that oppress me, from my deadly enemies, who compass me about. 10 They are inclosed in their own fat: with their mouth they speak proudly. 11 They have now compassed us in our steps: they have set their eyes bowing down to the earth; 12 Like as a lion that is greedy of his prey, and as it were a young lion lurking in secret places. 13 Arise, O LORD, disappoint him, cast him down: deliver my soul from the wicked, which is thy sword: 14 From men which are thy hand, O LORD, from men of the world, which have their portion in this life, and whose belly thou fillest with thy hid treasure: they are full of children, and leave the rest of their substance to their babes. 15 As for me, I will behold thy face in righteousness: I shall be satisfied, when I awake, with thy likeness.

Psalms 58:1 Do ye indeed speak righteousness, O congregation? do ye judge uprightly, O ye sons of men? 2 Yea, in heart ye work wickedness; ye weigh the violence of your hands in the earth. 3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies. 4 Their poison is like the poison of a serpent: they are like the deaf adder that stoppeth her ear; 5 Which will not hearken to the voice of charmers, charming never so wisely. 6 Break their teeth, O God, in their mouth: break out the great teeth of the young lions, O LORD. 7 Let them melt away as waters which run continually: when he bendeth his bow to shoot his arrows, let them be as cut in pieces. 8 As a snail which melteth, let every one of them pass away: like the untimely birth of a woman, that they may not see the sun. 9 Before your pots can feel the thorns, he shall take them away as with a whirlwind, both living, and in his wrath. 10 The righteous shall rejoice when he seeth the vengeance: he shall wash his feet in the blood of the wicked. 11 So that a man shall say, Verily there is a reward for the righteous: verily he is a God that judgeth in the earth.

Job 5:12 He disappointeth the devices of the crafty, so that their hands cannot perform their enterprise. 13 He taketh the wise in their own craftiness: and the counsel of the froward is carried headlong. 14 They meet with darkness in the daytime, and grope in the noonday as in the night. 15 But he saveth the poor from the sword, from their mouth, and from the hand of the mighty.

Psalms 5:10 Destroy thou them, O God; let them fall by their own counsels; cast them out in the multitude of their transgressions; for they have rebelled against thee.

Psalms 81:12 So I gave them up unto their own hearts' lust: and they walked in their own counsels.

Isaiah 30:1 Woe to the rebellious children, saith the LORD, that take counsel, but not of me; and that cover with a covering, but not of my spirit, that they may add sin to sin: 2 That walk to go down into Egypt, and have not asked at my mouth; to strengthen themselves in the strength of Pharaoh, and to trust in the shadow of Egypt! 3 Therefore shall the strength of Pharaoh be your shame, and the trust in the shadow of Egypt your confusion. 4 For his princes were at Zoan, and his ambassadors came to Hanes. 5 They were all ashamed of a people that could not profit them, nor be an help nor profit, but a shame, and also a reproach. 6 The burden of the beasts of the south: into the land of trouble and anguish, from whence come the young and old lion, the viper and fiery flying serpent, they will carry their riches upon the shoulders of young asses, and their treasures upon the bunches of camels, to a people that shall not profit them. 7 For the Egyptians shall help in vain, and to no purpose: therefore have I cried concerning this, Their strength is to sit still. 8 Now go, write it before them in a table, and note it in a book, that it may be for the time to come for ever and ever: 9 That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the LORD: 10 Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits:

Jeremiah 23:13 And I have seen folly in the prophets of Samaria; they prophesied in Baal, and caused my people Israel to err. 14 I have seen also in the prophets of Jerusalem an horrible thing: they commit adultery, and walk in lies: they strengthen also the hands of evildoers, that none doth return from his wickedness: they are all of them unto me as Sodom, and the inhabitants thereof as Gomorrah. 15 Therefore thus saith the LORD of hosts concerning the prophets; Behold, I will feed them with wormwood, and make them drink the water of gall: for from the prophets of Jerusalem is profaneness gone forth into all the land. 16 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the LORD...25 I have heard what the prophets said, that prophesy lies in my name, saying, I have dreamed, I have dreamed. 26 How long shall this be in the heart of the prophets that prophesy lies? yea, they are prophets of the deceit of their own heart;

Proverbs 10:15 The rich man's wealth is his strong city: the destruction of the poor is their poverty. 16 The labour of the righteous tendeth to life: the fruit of the wicked to sin. 17 He is in the way of life that keepeth instruction: but he that refuseth reproof erreth. 18 He that hideth hatred with lying lips, and he that uttereth a slander, is a fool. 19 In the multitude of words there wanteth not sin: but he that refraineth his lips is wise. 20 The tongue of the just is as choice silver: the heart of the wicked is little worth.

Jeremiah 23:17 They say still unto them that despise me, The LORD hath said, Ye shall have peace; and they say unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you.

1 Peter 5:8 "Be alert and of sober mind. Your enemy the devil (DIABOLOS/FALSE ACCUSER) prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour.

YOU: How do you reconcile this? So, who is this roaring lion?

ME: How many scriptures do you NEED???

MEN are likened to LIONS, DOGS, SERPENTS, not because they are possessed by wicked rebel spirits, but because they are of a CARNAL MIND, and the human carnal mind follows after his own nature, which has an IMAGINATION that SLANDERS and is an adversary unto himself as well as others.